Doctor wants me to try low fat plant based diet. Very difficult, need resources.
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janejellyroll wrote: »One of my favorite vegan cookbooks happens to be low fat - it's called "Appetite for Reduction" by Isa Chandra Moskowitz.
I second this rec, lots of really great low fat/cal vegan dishes. Lots of all kinds, mix and match mains and sides, tons of options.1 -
If you can find bulk spices (hard in the time of COVID), get a little bit of smoked paprika, some sweet paprika, and anything that smells/sounds good to you. If you have to buy full bottles, just pick 2. The start up costs for forks over knives, engine2, or Clean Food Dirty Girl (my fave) are higher, but expenses go way down once your pantry is stocked. Read through the blogs, try out recipes, throw any veggies and tofu on a super hot grill with nothing but Frank’s Red Hot and eat that while you peruse and make a plan. nutritionfacts.org also has a wealth of info about diabetes.3
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I would like to find a good vegan/vegetarian cookbook, but can't have soy, chickpeas, seeds or peanuts. A lot of the recipes rely heavily on these restricted foods. Sorry OP, I'm not trying to hijack your thread. If you can find a cookbook that fits your plan, maybe that will allow you to play with the seasoning and your pallet will also adjust over a few weeks of eating better/limiting the bad fats. So, anyone have additional realistic cookbooks to start from?Some books worth reading are Engine 9, How Not to Die, No Meat Athlete, and Eat to Live. This is a link to a book, Plant Based on a Budget
https://salamanderfamily.store/product/plant-based-on-a-budget-delicious-vegan-recipes-for-under-30-a-cooking-diets/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwo6D4BRDgARIsAA6uN1_0UcKJ236vM6m8FlMqx8sgOu9vMV4R13yVipwvBQqPSCV0WDyOOjMaAqfnEALw_wcB
You may want to research "Plant Based" or " Vegan" for diabetes in Google. Just be aware of author, credentials and sources to avoid fad type books. There are also communities that are very sound, and medically backed. Food Revolution Network is worth looking into.
A wholefood plant based diet can also be low carb,moderate healthy fat. Adding things like hemp, seeds, avocado, olives( not just the oil but whole olive) and macadamia all in moderation, tempeh, nut butters in moderation. Low fat doesn't mean no fat, we need all the macronutrientss in our diet( even keto)
If strait vegan is taking too much out of you, perhaps adding in fish, or researching a Mediterranean diet.
One option is switching ingredients, for example white kidney beans for chickpea, almonds, brazil or cashew for peanuts. With seeds you could maybe do minced nuts or coconut. Google different searches; try Vegan Mediterranean, vegan keto (just for ideas) Raw vegan, etc. Instead of focusing on what you can't have, focus on what you can have. Make a list of all the plant based foods you like
There are a plethora of vegetables, wholegrain and " pseudograins ". Teff, Amaranth, frekka, buckwheat groats. Mung beans are awesome, especially the yellow. Avocado, pea protein even. Cauliflower, sweet potatoes and purple potato are great to cook with.
I eat very simple and do not make combination meals. I find the more simple better.
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Your dr sounds weird to be honest. Unless there other health issues, and not just diabetes, I would recommend getting a second opinion.7
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I'm a vegetarian, not vegan, and I have a pinterest pin set up for recipes I've tried and like. Many of the recipes are vegan and quite a few are vegan and lower fat. https://www.pinterest.com/bgp1485/recipes-been-there-done-that/ You can also improvise with some of the recipes. Any of the recipes that require frying, I air fry or bake instead to keep them healthier.1
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melaniedscott wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »One of my favorite vegan cookbooks happens to be low fat - it's called "Appetite for Reduction" by Isa Chandra Moskowitz. While not explicitly WFPB, she happens to stick pretty close to common definitions of WFs. There is limited oil in some of the recipes, but I think you could easily omit it in many cases (for example, by "sauteing" vegetables in some vegetable stock). I'm not even on a low fat diet, but I cook out of the book all the time because the recipes are good and fit easily into my calorie goals. There also isn't a lot of dried fruit or "weird" ingredients (by my standard anyway).
Another cookbook I've used in the past is the Moosewood Low Fat cookbook. It isn't PB (it's pescatarian), but there are a lot of recipes in it that are PB or can be adapted to be so. That cookbook sometimes calls for some "ethnic" ingredients like wonton wrappers and stuff like that, but it's pretty normal. It was a big help for me when I began cooking with plants because it helped me figure out how to extract tons of flavors without adding tons of fat to recipes. (Note: all the other Moosewood cookbooks I've seen have been pretty high fat, so I would only recommend this particular one in your case).
I personally haven't been impressed by any of the Forks over Knives recipes that I've tried -- everything is a bit bland to me.
Good luck!
The first author also wrote Veganomicon (I think), don't know about low fat...but plant based.
Moosewood books are pretty good...and there are always ways to cut fat. Low Fat Favorites is one of my favorites. A lot of times, I just cut the fat in half. Some of the recipes are a bit complicated but most are really good. Sweet potato and black bean burritos are awesome...low fat and it says 6-8 servings but I end up with 12 servings...freezes well.
A previous post referenced Ornish's recommendation to sub broth for fat in sauteeing works. The only thing I don't like about Ornish is how much work his recipes take...I don't have that kind of time...
My recommendation every time is to check out your local library. You can check out cookbooks and see what you like, what works for you. And if you can't find one you like, you can inter-library loan (in the sataes, anyway).
Yep, it's the same author (with a co-author). It's a great cookbook, but I didn't recommend it because it isn't specifically low fat (although many of the recipes are either low fat or can be adopted to be).1 -
I'm type 2 diabetic. Used to be prediabetic, but it got worse. The metformin stopped working so I went back to the doctor and she wants me to try 30 days of a vegan low fat diet. I thought it wouldn't be hard to find resources online but boy was I wrong! There are too many criteria to meet at once. Low fat and vegan and diabetic friendly and not hideously expensive, all at the same time. Ugh! She recommends this program: https://www.forksoverknives.com/ Well.... I looked at it, and I find all their stuff to be very expensive and impractical. I live on a tight budget and can't get esoteric ingredients or do fancy recipes.
I figured I can't be the only person to be going through this, and maybe people who have been doing plant based for a while could point me to some resources that are practical for daily cooking and living in this situation. Sites, books, general principles, any advice for making this diet work would be welcome. After 30 days, we check my glucose tolerance again and see if this works like she thinks it will. I would rather do low carb, but she thinks that won't work for the long term. I am skeptical... but I have to try this vegan diet out and put it to the test.
I'm all for ethical veganism, but I hate when veganism is pushed as a magic bullet. Here are some problems with the science in Forks Over Knives: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Forks_Over_Knives
Given that, I would 100% get another opinion, preferably from a registered dietitian. Hopefully your insurance company will pay for the RD. If not, I believe paying for a consult out of pocket would be a good investment, despite your tight budget.4 -
There are actually a lot of success stories with low fat WFPB diets helping with T2D. Low carb isn't the only option. It might not work or be sustainable, but I think I'd try it for a month for sure.9
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There are actually a lot of success stories with low fat WFPB diets helping with T2D. Low carb isn't the only option. It might not work or be sustainable, but I think I'd try it for a month for sure.
Studies as well proving it works better than low carb. All to do with the fiber and lack of meat/processed foods. It improves the Microbiome and, in turn, your health overall.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466941/10 -
If you can eat some nuts and seeds, you might try grinding some together with nutritional yeast for a vegan version of Parmesan cheese.
I'm sure there must be scads of homemade recipes (look for keywords like vegan Parmesan nuts seeds), but I've had the pricey commercial Parma! that is really good on everything (veg also). The original formula was just nutritional yeast, walnuts, and salt and that was excellent. Then they added sunflower and hemp seeds. I've seen other such products using other nuts and seeds also, so it's all good. Don't expect it to taste just like Parmesan cheese, but it is in a form that is usable the same way and also tastes very good in itself.
Usually I suggest people switching to vegan eating make sure they maintain equivalent fat levels since a sudden drop in fat intake can easily send them screaming back to carnivorous eating. So you might need to experiment with the fat level in your diet, if your initial results are not what you want. Dr. Jason Fung (a Canadian nephrologist) has done a lot of work on diabetes and suggests low carb, high fat as a successful approach to Type 2. You could take a look at his web site and books and interviews.2 -
Another thought is to go super simple. At least it's not much work, and taste buds really wake up fast so you don't need added components so much.
You'll have to adapt to your own needs, but: When first dealing with food allergies, I followed a simple rotation scheme with most meals using only one or two foods (eating several times a day, as much as I wanted).
My major vegan food groups are:
Nuts
Seeds
Legumes/beans
Grains
Fruit
Vegetables
Misc (nutritional yeast, mushrooms, oils)
So I would hit those categories every day. I rarely used added oil, I got enough from food.
I spaced out eating foods in the same food family by a couple of days, so I got a lot of variety. For example, almonds, plums, apricots, peaches, nectarines are in the same food family; buckwheat and rhubarb likewise. A lot of nuts and seeds are in their own separate families. I even got Terra Chips and separated out the different root veggies... (Check food allergy rotation diet for lists of related foods if interested in such things, may not be relevant.) It really isn't hard.
I made my own crackers for things not easily available that way. Anything flour-like works: add enough water (oil and salt optional) to make a dough, roll between your palms to make a golf ball sized ball, flatten or use a tortilla iron and bake or cook in a skillet.
Likewise flatbread can be made out of anything, including non-grain flours - Ju͏s͏t make into a batter by adding water, add any spices or herbs that you like, and bake for about 15 minutes in a non-stick pan (or use parchment paper). There are YouTube videos showing how. Same for pancakes. Buckwheat flour makes nice pancakes all by itself... A good high powered blender can make anything into a flour. (Vitamix sells refurbished ones on an installment plan if you're looking for one. They tend to not die easily, even after the long warranty period).1 -
I have peanuts, almonds, and tofu right now which I am experimenting with. Almond flour is terribly expensive so maybe I would do better to grind up the almonds in a food processor than buying it in a bag.2
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MikePfirrman wrote: »There are actually a lot of success stories with low fat WFPB diets helping with T2D. Low carb isn't the only option. It might not work or be sustainable, but I think I'd try it for a month for sure.
Studies as well proving it works better than low carb. All to do with the fiber and lack of meat/processed foods. It improves the Microbiome and, in turn, your health overall.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466941/
The link doesn't compare low carb vs low fat. Its more based on observational data as opposed to RCTs. Also, a lot of the evidence against meat based proteins is outdated. Once you separate out processed vs unprocessed meats ill effects go away. One of the problem is there are a lot of cofounding variables that can effect results. You definitely make good points on getting adequate fiber as its positive impacts on health. But this is something that can certainly be achieved through plant based and animal based diets.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/108/2/300/5051863
Just make sure you are getting enough b12 and iron in your diet.4 -
brandnewvegan.com has a lot of good recipes which are simple and generally don't require expensive ingredients.
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I have been WFPBNO on and off for years. Only minimally processed, oil and sugar free plants. Each time I get better at it- this time feels really great and likely for good. Down 25 lbs so far in a few months! One website that I found which helped me realize that eating this way can be fun, creative, and cheap is pulses.org. They have a recipe section full of interesting things to cook using dried beans/peas/legumes. I filter for “vegan entrees” and go to town. I omit or substitute oil, sugar, or anything processed and it’s become second nature. The recipes are practical and extremely creative- just great! Give it a shot- pulses.org. Good luck!3
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The appointment with my doctor is on the 28th. I did get my lab results showing normal insulin production, but still any time I try to eat a starchy vegetable in even tiny quantities, my blood sugar shoots up alarmingly. I don't see how this is going to work. If meat and dairy are out, I can't live on nothing but nonstarchy vegetables. Fruits have sugar, and the vegetables with protein also have starch. There's nothing left really. I'm going to go find an endocrinologist. I don't think this kind of diet is suitable for diabetics who are this sensitive to carbs. I think my doctor is bandwagoning again. She always hops on the latest trend.13
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The appointment with my doctor is on the 28th. I did get my lab results showing normal insulin production, but still any time I try to eat a starchy vegetable in even tiny quantities, my blood sugar shoots up alarmingly. I don't see how this is going to work. If meat and dairy are out, I can't live on nothing but nonstarchy vegetables. Fruits have sugar, and the vegetables with protein also have starch. There's nothing left really. I'm going to go find an endocrinologist. I don't think this kind of diet is suitable for diabetics who are this sensitive to carbs. I think my doctor is bandwagoning again. She always hops on the latest trend.
I'm really sorry to hear that this is so hard and I hope you're able to get some good recommendations from your endocrinologist.2 -
Doctor Gregors How not to Diet book is good. He also has a podcast. Mastering Diabetes is another good one. Both advocate whole food/ plant based. Both provide tons of research into the benefit for both type 1 and 2. Carbs are not our enemy. It’s what we eat with them, and if we consume processed junk and frankenfoods. Lots of info about spices and vinegars that naturally help the body become more insulin sensitive. I’m new to this journey as well and taking it slow. It’s a new mindset and I’m not quite there yet3
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Give your palate time to change too. I eat extremely low salt diet and what I originally found bland I know find flavorful. I eat a ton of raw unsalted pumpkin seeds due to their lower caloric value than walnuts. I originally found them tastless but now they have such richness and depth.
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The appointment with my doctor is on the 28th. I did get my lab results showing normal insulin production, but still any time I try to eat a starchy vegetable in even tiny quantities, my blood sugar shoots up alarmingly. I don't see how this is going to work. If meat and dairy are out, I can't live on nothing but nonstarchy vegetables. Fruits have sugar, and the vegetables with protein also have starch. There's nothing left really. I'm going to go find an endocrinologist. I don't think this kind of diet is suitable for diabetics who are this sensitive to carbs. I think my doctor is bandwagoning again. She always hops on the latest trend.
The last part about trends tells me she’s not treating you, just spouting nonsense. It makes me unreasonably angry on your behalf, given what you shared with how your body is reacting to the foods she’s advised she’s killing you, not helping you.
Please listen to your body and what it tells you via your sugar readings until you can get advice for your situation. I would look for a doctor that uses diet (low carb) to treat diabetes, but that’s just me. Why take medication if we can ‘fix’ things with diet? I don’t care if we ‘cure’ it but if we can manage BS with how we eat why wouldn’t we?
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I'm going to go find an endocrinologist.
Excellent idea. An endocrinologist will have a better understanding of your condition.I don't think this kind of diet is suitable for diabetics who are this sensitive to carbs. I think my doctor is bandwagoning again. She always hops on the latest trend.
In general, physicians know remarkably little about nutrition. For the most part, they had no training or education in nutrition in medical school. The good ones know this about themselves. The bad ones go with whatever they heard at some point and therefore believe general rules they apply to everyone. Ask your GP for nutrition or diet advice and you are likely to get a one-size-fits-all single piece of paper that in no way takes into account your individual needs or the latest information.
This leaves you on the hook for finding better sources of information than your physician. I like Harvard School of Public Health's "Nutrition Source" because it represents the opinion of many experts who meet together to keep it up-to-date. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/
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I'd get a second opinion. A low fat plant based diet for Type 2 diabetic is a complexity that most nutritionists would not impose other than for philosophical as opposed to medical reasons. At least until the Type 2 is under control.2
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jessicastrong924 wrote: »I have been WFPBNO on and off for years. Only minimally processed, oil and sugar free plants. Each time I get better at it- this time feels really great and likely for good. Down 25 lbs so far in a few months! One website that I found which helped me realize that eating this way can be fun, creative, and cheap is pulses.org. They have a recipe section full of interesting things to cook using dried beans/peas/legumes. I filter for “vegan entrees” and go to town. I omit or substitute oil, sugar, or anything processed and it’s become second nature. The recipes are practical and extremely creative- just great! Give it a shot- pulses.org. Good luck!
Thank you so much for the referral to Pulses.org!
As a long term vegetarian (leaning lately to vegan) I’ve been cooking with and eating lentils and beans for years, but what an untapped resource that site is for me!
I’ve just spent ages browsing through all the categories and recipes and the recipes look great! I love the emphasis on a healthier way to cook some of the ‘heavier’ dishes.
Definitely a site I’ll be recommending to others too. 😊
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Would this be a nutritional coach or chiropractor recommending this. I personally don't know of any licensed dietitians or medical professionals recommending anything like this for T2.2
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Diatonic12 wrote: »Would this be a nutritional coach or chiropractor recommending this. I personally don't know of any licensed dietitians or medical professionals recommending anything like this for T2.
There ARE some medical professionals that would recommend a diet like this. Note: https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/09/20/how-to-reverse-type-2-diabetes/
(I am not endorsing the recommendation, I am just noting that there are at least some doctors who think a plant-based low fat diet would be helpful for someone with T2 diabetes).4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Diatonic12 wrote: »Would this be a nutritional coach or chiropractor recommending this. I personally don't know of any licensed dietitians or medical professionals recommending anything like this for T2.
There ARE some medical professionals that would recommend a diet like this. Note: https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/09/20/how-to-reverse-type-2-diabetes/
(I am not endorsing the recommendation, I am just noting that there are at least some doctors who think a plant-based low fat diet would be helpful for someone with T2 diabetes).
On that website, i bet they will endorse plant based for every ailments. Its more propaganda than science.
Its like taking advice from Dr. Fung.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Diatonic12 wrote: »Would this be a nutritional coach or chiropractor recommending this. I personally don't know of any licensed dietitians or medical professionals recommending anything like this for T2.
There ARE some medical professionals that would recommend a diet like this. Note: https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/09/20/how-to-reverse-type-2-diabetes/
(I am not endorsing the recommendation, I am just noting that there are at least some doctors who think a plant-based low fat diet would be helpful for someone with T2 diabetes).
On that website, i bet they will endorse plant based for every ailments. Its more propaganda than science.
Its like taking advice from Dr. Fung.
Absolutely, I don't disagree with you at all. I was just pointing out that there ARE doctors that recommend it, not stating that such doctors are necessarily worth listening to. I do not consider Nutrition Facts to be an unbiased source and I also don't know enough about diabetes management to evaluate their specific claims.
I was more pointing out there are a lot of doctors in the world and they're capable of being both very wrong and very loud. You are correct that Dr Greger would recommend a plant-based low fat diet as a cure for everything, that's his exact thing.
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Diatonic12 wrote: »Would this be a nutritional coach or chiropractor recommending this. I personally don't know of any licensed dietitians or medical professionals recommending anything like this for T2.
There ARE some medical professionals that would recommend a diet like this. Note: https://nutritionfacts.org/2018/09/20/how-to-reverse-type-2-diabetes/
(I am not endorsing the recommendation, I am just noting that there are at least some doctors who think a plant-based low fat diet would be helpful for someone with T2 diabetes).
On that website, i bet they will endorse plant based for every ailments. Its more propaganda than science.
Its like taking advice from Dr. Fung.
Absolutely, I don't disagree with you at all. I was just pointing out that there ARE doctors that recommend it, not stating that such doctors are necessarily worth listening to. I do not consider Nutrition Facts to be an unbiased source and I also don't know enough about diabetes management to evaluate their specific claims.
I was more pointing out there are a lot of doctors in the world and they're capable of being both very wrong and very loud. You are correct that Dr Greger would recommend a plant-based low fat diet as a cure for everything, that's his exact thing.
This is why it's so important to take advice from people who study the field and most importantly, a set of specialized doctor that can evaluate each case.
But in general, a disease of overproduction of glucose would benefit from a diet lower in glucose. Not saying keto, but lower carb.
If anything, if SFA are concern from a metabolic standpoint, I would think a LC Mediterranean Diet would be a great place. Fibrous plants (especially Avocado), EVOO, low red meat, and plenty of lean proteins and fatty fish. Its a great place to get essential and super healthy nutrients.
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I eat mostly plant-based. Try burrito bowl. Brown rice base, sautéed peppers and onions in very little oil, cabbage (cabbage is your friend!), black beans, mango salsa, sautéed tofu (you can use very little oil here too), then chipotle cream (vegan yogurt or fat free yogurt if you’re just stating vegan, canned chipotles, garlic, lime juice, salt in a blender). This also gives you a lot of leftovers! Good luck. One recipe book that is good for starting out is ‘Quick Fix Vegan’, recipes are straightforward.3
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