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Why Is Food "Addiction" So Controversial?

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  • Speakeasy76
    Speakeasy76 Posts: 961 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    To continue on the cognitive work of changing behaviors.... I am lingering over the recognition that there is a difference between:
    - identifying subconscious beliefs, evaluating whether they are actually true, and recalibrating them
    - the 12 (or so) [url="http://"]cognitive distortions[/url] defined in the Beck CBT model.

    Good examples of reexamined beliefs above (alcohol is good for sleep, relaxation, etc.) I am also curious about cognitive distortions folks may have recognized (all-or-nothing thinking, overgeneralizing, filtering, etc.) and found it helpful to change.

    Lots of MFP-ers have commented on all-or-nothing thinking, i.e. "I've ruined the day/week/year by eating one meal off plan so I might as well go off plan for everything else." That's a distortion. The reality is every little bit you do counts, so getting right back on plan would result in a small bump in the road, not a catastrophe. Other examples (I'm making these up now):
    - overgeneralizing: "sugar always makes me overeat" vs reality which might be something like "I don't overeat fruit so I'm able to moderate some foods with sucrose/fructose"
    - filtering: dwelling only on failures instead of recognizing some success plus some fails.

    Interested in others' thoughts.

    I know little or nothing about CBT per se, but what you're saying here - I think - is related to something I've typed a number of times in threads here on MFP: That self-definition is really, really important; and that there has to be a way to make a tiny chink in the wall of self-concept, to create a potential for change. For example: "I hate exercise" vs. "I haven't yet found a way of moving more that I enjoy" or "I can't resist sweets" vs. "In the past, I've struggled to resist sweets".

    It's kind of at the root of why I don't like the casual "addiction" language for eating issues, in most cases. It situates the power in some non-controllable place, inside the self, but outside self-control. That's not a great starting point, conceptually, for change.

    (If the "addiction" language were limited to things like severe binging, where an individual feels completely out of control, literally desperately eating anything that's at hand, I wouldn't consider that "casual" usage: There really is a deep problem of self-control. "I will eat a whole sleeve of Oreos, but not the apples, nor drink honey out of the jar" called "sugar addiction" is still a behavioral problem, but not the same nature of problem.)

    There's a new term that's popular called "Growth Mindset." This has been used a lot at my kids' school since they were in like 1st grade, teaching them about this concept in terms that they can understand. It's why telling kids "you're so smart" is actually not helpful, but can be damaging. I've started applying this concept to myself, and I think that's why I've been successful in keeping weight off.

    The whole concept is recognizing what you "glow" at (typically referred to as "strengths") and what are the areas in which you need to "grow" (commonly referred to as weaknesses). Even the terminology is that of more control of what we can change. That's why I, too, now have a problem in admitting "powerlessness" over certain foods. I understand that with highly addictive substances that makes more sense for some, but for food...I don't know.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    Interested in others' thoughts.

    I guess I'm not sure exactly what you are seeking thoughts on. I've done some CBT and certainly recognized almost all of the cognitive distortions as problems with my own thinking about a variety of things.
  • dekrugermolly
    dekrugermolly Posts: 26 Member
    I do think food can be addictive. It’s proven that sugar is more addictive than opioids like heroin. I battle with food constantly, i battle the junk food and fast over over the healthy and homemade. It’s something you have to work on every day of your life if you want to be healthy and have an addiction to food. Yes you need food to live, but you don’t need McDonalds, chips, pizza, etc. to live.
  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,401 Member
    Worms, worms, worms everywhere.

    Commenting to follow, but it is really a somewhat unique case. We all have to eat to survive. Is a biological need an addition in itself? I don't think so, but others might.

    As for particular foods, I think it falls into desires more than addictions personally. While a person might want a fatty and sweet treat, they would probably still eat a cream filled donut if it had a protein biased macro, or many less calories, etc. They just IMHO want that particular taste they are craving.
  • spinnerdell
    spinnerdell Posts: 233 Member
    Psychgrrl wrote: »
    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    I just caught upon this thread and thoroughly enjoyed, especially the bits on cheese and WWII eating. The discussion seems to show that at least one reason for controversy is the lack of a single definition of addiction that is clear and that everyone is using.

    Is “alcohol addiction” or “alcoholic” even in the DSM-5? I thought those terms were replaced with “alcohol use disorder” because psychologists also struggled to give definitions precise enough to be helpful (I.e. to pinpoint when a patient had crossed the line into addiction). “Alcohol use disorder” gives practitioners a spectrum of behaviors that are more flexible and descriptive, and hence easier to use.

    If we go with the “disordered” language, we can see similarities in some eating disorder behaviors and substance use disorder behaviors, but we can also see that the spectrum of behaviors can be much more extreme and destructive with disordered use of alcohol and drugs.
    iFartMagic wrote: »
    Food addiction is 100% a thing. It does not matter if you need it to live or not, it is a mental disorder to eat beyond what you need to live to such an excess that it is extremely unhealthy. A food addicted person will just be on auto pilot and eat until they are sick even.

    People DO use it as an excuse sometimes and are not actually addicted, and it has to be diagnosed, but it is the same class as any other eating disorder.

    "Eating disorder" not "Addiction". You said it yourself.

    Eating disorders (and OSFED—Other Specified Feeding or Eating Disorders) do have actions that could be classified as problem behaviors with some similar veins of addiction treatment (like CBT—Cognitive Behavior Therapy). They also have the commonality of being endemic for most sufferers.

    However, they typically aren’t treated like addictions. Eating Disorders are self-harming behaviors with different response needs than addiction.

    Self-harming behavior describes disordered eating very well for me.
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  • 33gail33
    33gail33 Posts: 1,155 Member
    As someone who literally writhed and gnashed teeth with perceived "want" of certain trigger foods I can say some days it feels harder than quitting smoking.

    When quitting smoking I stopped going places people smoke, stopped hanging with people while they smoke, and they hide them behind closed doors in the shops now so I dont see them and they smell gross.

    If only the same could be said for avoiding people who eat and while they eat and that cherry covered black forest cake in the bakery case looking and smelling so inviting on the way to the checkout.

    Dont have to constantly plan life around avoiding smokers anymore 3 years later but have to look at food all the time and watch every bite. Ahh to become a Breathatarian...

    Yeah to me stopping eating certain foods is harder than stopping drinking so idk. I just can't moderate chocolate or potato chips - but I "gave up" wine last fall. I was an almost daily drinker, and now I have no problem having a glass or two of wine once in a while, and then not thinking about it again another couple of weeks. With me drinking wine was more of a habit that I associated with things, and once that habit was broken I don't crave it or anything. Certain foods on the other hand I do. Like I can have one glass of wine and stop, but I will eat all the chocolate until it is gone.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,009 Member
    edited March 2021
    My stance on food "addiction" is that you can't avoid eating food.

    Other addictions like opiates, drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc. CAN be avoided without the person impairing their physical health.
    Since I also believe that addictions are more mental than physical, mental health also has to be addressed when trying to deal with getting people away from what they are addicted to.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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  • leiflung
    leiflung Posts: 83 Member
    I have no idea what obvious signs you'd expect to see. This kind of trauma is generally invisible. For the most part, you can't even ask people. They'll say they had no childhood trauma when they were raped at the age of 6.

    You aren't just making some assumption sometimes. You're always ignorant. Hiding your pain is a survival strategy.

    But I also don't know that you're providing an out. In either case there is hard work to be done. Either through self-discipline or trauma recovery or addiction recovery. In all cases, you have a problem that only you can fix. In all cases, you can easily not solve it and make excuses, instead.

    Each of us is responsible for our happiness. That is always true. I don't think calling food an addiction has any relevance to that.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    edited April 2021
    leiflung wrote: »
    I think the word "Addiction" trips people up.

    Just like alcohol and opiates, overeating is a coping mechanism. This is known. The largest study ever done on the long-term health effects of childhood trauma originated at an obesity clinic, the ACE study.

    There are ways to become addicted to alcohol and opiates without having significant childhood trauma. It happens. If you have to take Vicodin every day for months to manage pain, you can become addicted. As far as I know, people don't develop compulsive eating habits that lead to obesity in this accidental way.

    That's a significant difference.

    But, your chances of becoming an alcoholic, an opium addict, a compulsive gambler or obese all increase significantly according to how much childhood trauma you were subject to.

    For many people, overeating treats a problem that will not vanish with weight loss.

    Who they are, how they feel all the time when they aren't overeating, is unbearable to them.

    That makes it almost identical to an addiction. You can really only split hairs about how that unbearableness came to be and how we understand it physiologically.

    But yes, there are people for whom not eating compulsively feels intolerable.

    I think, if we can just understand that, quibbling about whether to call is an addiction is irrelevant.

    When I was watching season 3 of "My 600 Pound Life" I noted that all of the patients had some sort of abuse or trauma in childhood.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,052 Member
    As someone who literally writhed and gnashed teeth with perceived "want" of certain trigger foods I can say some days it feels harder than quitting smoking.

    When quitting smoking I stopped going places people smoke, stopped hanging with people while they smoke, and they hide them behind closed doors in the shops now so I dont see them and they smell gross.

    If only the same could be said for avoiding people who eat and while they eat and that cherry covered black forest cake in the bakery case looking and smelling so inviting on the way to the checkout.

    Dont have to constantly plan life around avoiding smokers anymore 3 years later but have to look at food all the time and watch every bite. Ahh to become a Breathatarian...

    Yes, when I stopped self-medicating with alcohol etc I was able to just never do it and avoid the friends and places I'd been doing it.

    So much simpler!

    It was also really easy to shut down my alcohol Addictive Voice but my food Addictive Voice is so much sneakier...
  • CorvusCorax77
    CorvusCorax77 Posts: 2,536 Member
    All i know is I could be eating to the point of being painfully full and thinking about what I'm going to eat next. If that isn't addict behavior, I dunno what is.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    edited April 2021
    Psychgrrl wrote: »
    All i know is I could be eating to the point of being painfully full and thinking about what I'm going to eat next. If that isn't addict behavior, I dunno what is.

    It’s a sign of a problem behavior, not a hallmark of addiction. There is likely a psychological driver (or two) behind your (seemingly) binge eating. Addictive behaviors impact most facets of a person’s life. The addiction is the most important and only thing. It is all-consuming. Eating so much food and not leaving enough for others, eating to the point of not working or socializing (or being functional enough to do so), buying food to the point of bankruptcy—all due to the inability to do anything else. That is the what addiction does to people. It can literally ruin their lives and take everyone and everything from them.

    I’ve struggled with food, certain foods, at times. But I am in no way addicted to them.

    As some of you know from previous posts, I am solidly in the “food is not an addiction” camp. Having worked with addicts in recovery, “food addiction” is not a thing in the same way. Many of us have bad habits around food. 🙋🏻‍♀️ And there are some treatments used for both food issues and addictions. But that doesn’t mean they’re the same thing. Not being addicted doesn’t necessarily mean someone can just wake up one day and say, I’m done with chocolate (or 🍟 in my case). It also doesn’t mean it’s simple or that it won’t take work.

    But it does mean we’re starting from a different place than an addict and it doesn’t involve chemical, physical withdrawal symptoms. Even when we have cravings. I have cravings. And I promise, it’s not the same as the cravings of someone coming off heroine has who just wants another hit. We need to learn different behaviors and don’t have to overcome the same barriers as an addict. Including being an addict for life.

    And eating disorders are not treated in the same way as addictions. Different class of behaviors.

    Yes, I think sometimes this conversation is heard as "If you're not addicted, then you also can't have disordered eating or problems around regulating your food intake." As you explain here, that's not at all what I think people are saying. Something can be a real problem for someone and not necessarily be an addiction. Many people who have or had excess weight have what I would call "food problems." Many people who don't have excess weight probably have food problems too.
  • gisem17
    gisem17 Posts: 50 Member
    Why is food addiction so controversial? Because whichever side you land on, someone gets offended.
    If I say I have a food addiction, everyone who has been involved with a chemical addiction is immediately offended because I dared trivialize their experience by comparing it to my own. When they say I don't have an addiction, they are offending me by trivializing my very-real-to-me problem as nothing.
    It seems like we should be able to reach a compromise where a perceived food addiction is recognized as something real that needs to be resolved while still acknowledging that it is not as intense as a chemical addiction.
    What I used to call a food addiction, I now believe is actually Binge Eating Disorder (yes, I know, I should confirm that with my Dr). Hopefully, by giving it a more accurate name, I can address that issue without offending those with different issues.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    kryvons wrote: »
    Certain food combinations do cause feelings of being high. If you’ve ever done a “whole food diet” and then went back to eating cookies and chips you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about. If you’ve never experienced this - maybe you’re wired differently than other people but for those of us who do experience it - it’s very, very real. I’ve done more drugs than I care to admit (a lot) in my younger days and have drank my fair share of alcohol (a lot) - but I have never sought out anything like I do specific foods. I have never felt any sort of addictive (physical or mental) urges when it comes to drugs or alcohol - but I have with specific foods. It feels exactly the same as anyone with any other sort of addiction describes it.
    So regardless of if anyone believes in food addiction or not - it doesn’t change my reality and my experience. Someone not believing in it doesn’t offend me in the least - I just know they don’t deal with the same issues I do and I’m glad for them. No one would be able to convince me it isn’t real or that it’s something else because I live with it. I wouldn’t argue about it because why? For me, it says more about a person trying to deny someone of their reality and struggle than it ever will about the person struggling.
    Is there a mental aspect to it? Definitely. Willpower? Discipline? Of course. Just like other addictions that can be overcome. No addiction is hopeless and nearly every addiction begins with a choice. No one can decide another persons reality or experience and anyone trying to is not a person I’d like to know.

    I guess I would ask, if someone acknowledges that one can have strong urges to consume certain foods or quantities of foods and that those urges can be detrimental to one's quality of life and require concerted work or even professional help to overcome, to what extent are they denying your reality if they simply don't think "addiction" is the most fitting way to describe it?

    I think there are ways to challenge the "addiction" concept for food issues without denying someone's experience.