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Why Is Food "Addiction" So Controversial?
Replies
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^^^ this
And to add to it - I can happily eat my daily calories in cheese (and have done so)... I have also thrown out cheese because it has turned into a science experiment in the cheese drawer (green growing cheese, blech!). If it was truly addictive, the second part of that sentence should NEVER happen.6 -
^^^ this
And to add to it - I can happily eat my daily calories in cheese (and have done so)... I have also thrown out cheese because it has turned into a science experiment in the cheese drawer (green growing cheese, blech!). If it was truly addictive, the second part of that sentence should NEVER happen.
Curious. Do you like blue cheese? I’ve thrown out blue cheese because it got too blue. Lol3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.1 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »^^^ this
And to add to it - I can happily eat my daily calories in cheese (and have done so)... I have also thrown out cheese because it has turned into a science experiment in the cheese drawer (green growing cheese, blech!). If it was truly addictive, the second part of that sentence should NEVER happen.
Curious. Do you like blue cheese? I’ve thrown out blue cheese because it got too blue. Lol
Yes, I do like blue cheese... never bought enough for it to go bad, tho.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
Dependence is not addiction. Habit is not dependence.
Not necessarily.
That's kind of the point of quite a few posts in this thread, actually.8 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »^^^ this
And to add to it - I can happily eat my daily calories in cheese (and have done so)... I have also thrown out cheese because it has turned into a science experiment in the cheese drawer (green growing cheese, blech!). If it was truly addictive, the second part of that sentence should NEVER happen.
Curious. Do you like blue cheese? I’ve thrown out blue cheese because it got too blue. Lol
Yes, I do like blue cheese... never bought enough for it to go bad, tho.
Never heard of anyone buying enough heroin for it to go had either. 🤔 good enough science for me!2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
That a substance is addictive doesn't mean that every user will necessarily become addicted (there are a lot of people who casually drink, yet alcoholism is real). That someone is addicted doesn't necessarily mean that rehab is required to quit in all instances (I think we all know people who managed to quit using a substance they were addicted to without formal rehab). The point is that NOBODY goes to rehab for cheese ever, yet many people manage to eliminate it from their diet or moderate their consumption.
You're making a really bold claim about cheese and there just isn't evidence to support that cheese addiction is an actual thing.
11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
That a substance is addictive doesn't mean that every user will necessarily become addicted (there are a lot of people who casually drink, yet alcoholism is real). That someone is addicted doesn't necessarily mean that rehab is required to quit in all instances (I think we all know people who managed to quit using a substance they were addicted to without formal rehab). The point is that NOBODY goes to rehab for cheese ever, yet many people manage to eliminate it from their diet or moderate their consumption.
You're making a really bold claim about cheese and there just isn't evidence to support that cheese addiction is an actual thing.
You mean evidence that you or me are addicted? No. Like I was never addicted on joints. Evidence that it can be addictive? Yes. (I'll keep trying to find the study lol there are so many on nutrition). But this sums up chemically how it works.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-cheese-addictive#your-brain-on-cheese0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
That a substance is addictive doesn't mean that every user will necessarily become addicted (there are a lot of people who casually drink, yet alcoholism is real). That someone is addicted doesn't necessarily mean that rehab is required to quit in all instances (I think we all know people who managed to quit using a substance they were addicted to without formal rehab). The point is that NOBODY goes to rehab for cheese ever, yet many people manage to eliminate it from their diet or moderate their consumption.
You're making a really bold claim about cheese and there just isn't evidence to support that cheese addiction is an actual thing.
Lol I only find articles describing it. I really can't find the study anymore. I think this is more complete (yes I didn't read it all lol)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/casomorphin0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
That a substance is addictive doesn't mean that every user will necessarily become addicted (there are a lot of people who casually drink, yet alcoholism is real). That someone is addicted doesn't necessarily mean that rehab is required to quit in all instances (I think we all know people who managed to quit using a substance they were addicted to without formal rehab). The point is that NOBODY goes to rehab for cheese ever, yet many people manage to eliminate it from their diet or moderate their consumption.
You're making a really bold claim about cheese and there just isn't evidence to support that cheese addiction is an actual thing.
You mean evidence that you or me are addicted? No. Like I was never addicted on joints. Evidence that it can be addictive? Yes. (I'll keep trying to find the study lol there are so many on nutrition). But this sums up chemically how it works.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-cheese-addictive#your-brain-on-cheese
so given this logical fallacy every single substance and thing on the planet is addictive...glad we cleared that up...4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
That a substance is addictive doesn't mean that every user will necessarily become addicted (there are a lot of people who casually drink, yet alcoholism is real). That someone is addicted doesn't necessarily mean that rehab is required to quit in all instances (I think we all know people who managed to quit using a substance they were addicted to without formal rehab). The point is that NOBODY goes to rehab for cheese ever, yet many people manage to eliminate it from their diet or moderate their consumption.
You're making a really bold claim about cheese and there just isn't evidence to support that cheese addiction is an actual thing.
You mean evidence that you or me are addicted? No. Like I was never addicted on joints. Evidence that it can be addictive? Yes. (I'll keep trying to find the study lol there are so many on nutrition). But this sums up chemically how it works.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-cheese-addictive#your-brain-on-cheese
so given this logical fallacy every single substance and thing on the planet is addictive...glad we cleared that up...
Yes when they act as opioids.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/casomorphin0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
That a substance is addictive doesn't mean that every user will necessarily become addicted (there are a lot of people who casually drink, yet alcoholism is real). That someone is addicted doesn't necessarily mean that rehab is required to quit in all instances (I think we all know people who managed to quit using a substance they were addicted to without formal rehab). The point is that NOBODY goes to rehab for cheese ever, yet many people manage to eliminate it from their diet or moderate their consumption.
You're making a really bold claim about cheese and there just isn't evidence to support that cheese addiction is an actual thing.
You mean evidence that you or me are addicted? No. Like I was never addicted on joints. Evidence that it can be addictive? Yes. (I'll keep trying to find the study lol there are so many on nutrition). But this sums up chemically how it works.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-cheese-addictive#your-brain-on-cheese
so given this logical fallacy every single substance and thing on the planet is addictive...glad we cleared that up...
Yes when they act as opioids.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/casomorphin
that link has about 20 different studies in it. Is there one in particular that you are pointing to, or are you just trying to post links to make the absurdity of your claims more relevant?2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
That a substance is addictive doesn't mean that every user will necessarily become addicted (there are a lot of people who casually drink, yet alcoholism is real). That someone is addicted doesn't necessarily mean that rehab is required to quit in all instances (I think we all know people who managed to quit using a substance they were addicted to without formal rehab). The point is that NOBODY goes to rehab for cheese ever, yet many people manage to eliminate it from their diet or moderate their consumption.
You're making a really bold claim about cheese and there just isn't evidence to support that cheese addiction is an actual thing.
You mean evidence that you or me are addicted? No. Like I was never addicted on joints. Evidence that it can be addictive? Yes. (I'll keep trying to find the study lol there are so many on nutrition). But this sums up chemically how it works.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-cheese-addictive#your-brain-on-cheese
so given this logical fallacy every single substance and thing on the planet is addictive...glad we cleared that up...
Yes when they act as opioids.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/casomorphin
that link has about 20 different studies in it. Is there one in particular that you are pointing to, or are you just trying to post links to make the absurdity of your claims more relevant?
Lol I found it. They removed the result. But it explains in details why they did the study.
Wonder why they removed the result... Someone paid for it? 😂😂😂😂😂
https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT003609190 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
I could easily give up cheese for one month or longer and I love cheese. I am sure as heck glad I don’t have an opioid addiction though. You cannot equate cheese lover to opioid addiction. Does not compute. Sorry
Me too.
I have gone 100% plant-based for Lent before, and cheese wasn't even the hardest part of that.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
That a substance is addictive doesn't mean that every user will necessarily become addicted (there are a lot of people who casually drink, yet alcoholism is real). That someone is addicted doesn't necessarily mean that rehab is required to quit in all instances (I think we all know people who managed to quit using a substance they were addicted to without formal rehab). The point is that NOBODY goes to rehab for cheese ever, yet many people manage to eliminate it from their diet or moderate their consumption.
You're making a really bold claim about cheese and there just isn't evidence to support that cheese addiction is an actual thing.
You mean evidence that you or me are addicted? No. Like I was never addicted on joints. Evidence that it can be addictive? Yes. (I'll keep trying to find the study lol there are so many on nutrition). But this sums up chemically how it works.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-cheese-addictive#your-brain-on-cheese
That link makes similar claims about turkey and legumes, so you're basically arguing that humans like to eat.
Do you really think someone who likes hummus or kidney bean soup is addicted?7 -
Yup...and this is why I have a really hard time being on board with food or sugar addiction or whatever...outlandish claims of sugar being equivalent to alcohol and cheese being the same thing as opioids...SMH...
You should come to NM where we have a massive opioid problem that comes with a massive homelessness problem, prostitution, violent crimes and robbery, theft, etc. I'm pretty sure I've never heard on the news about someone giving out sexual favors for a good block of aged Vermont white cheddar or someone being so desperate for their sugar fix that they're going to hand out BJs for Jolly Ranchers.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
That a substance is addictive doesn't mean that every user will necessarily become addicted (there are a lot of people who casually drink, yet alcoholism is real). That someone is addicted doesn't necessarily mean that rehab is required to quit in all instances (I think we all know people who managed to quit using a substance they were addicted to without formal rehab). The point is that NOBODY goes to rehab for cheese ever, yet many people manage to eliminate it from their diet or moderate their consumption.
You're making a really bold claim about cheese and there just isn't evidence to support that cheese addiction is an actual thing.
You mean evidence that you or me are addicted? No. Like I was never addicted on joints. Evidence that it can be addictive? Yes. (I'll keep trying to find the study lol there are so many on nutrition). But this sums up chemically how it works.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-cheese-addictive#your-brain-on-cheese
That link makes similar claims about turkey and legumes, so you're basically arguing that humans like to eat.
Do you really think someone who likes hummus or kidney bean soup is addicted?
I blew my 401K savings on Kidney Bean soup....10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
Physical dependence (which you likely had with the cigarettes, and I have had with caffeine, and which you don't seem to have had with the alcohol, and even many actual alcoholics do not although withdrawal can be deadly for those who do) is not required for something to be addictive, and it is also not sufficient for addiction of the sort we are discussing. It also is not demonstrated in the way you claim -- that certain portions of the brain are affected (again, which occurs in connection with anything we find pleasurable). All that shows is that we find both cheese and opioids pleasurable.
The broader question is whether specific foods are addictive, and I don't think any evidence has been presented for that yet. (It's a different question than whether one can be addicted to food or eating more generally, and there the question is how to classify various addiction-like disordered eating behaviors.)
As I said before, I'm pretty open to the idea that such behaviors can be looked at as a type of addiction, but the notion of only specific foods being addictive (usually ones that one wants to demonize for some reason, as I've mostly heard the cheese one from a few WFPB diet promoters, and we've discussed the sugar one already) is different and unsupported by anything serious.
You also just don't need to prove physical addiction to argue addiction, as the hard part of kicking an addiction (vs. dependence) is typically not primarily the withdrawal. If it were, alcoholics who kick the dependence or don't have it (and it actually takes a lot to develop a physical dependence on alcohol, at least for most) wouldn't have addictive behaviors with it or be so prone to relapse. Same with opioids -- we know how to fix physical dependence, but not how to fix the broader psychological issue, or at least not consistently and in a way that works for everyone.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
Dependence is not addiction. Habit is not dependence.
Not necessarily.
That's kind of the point of quite a few posts in this thread, actually.
Yup.3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Yup...and this is why I have a really hard time being on board with food or sugar addiction or whatever...outlandish claims of sugar being equivalent to alcohol and cheese being the same thing as opioids...SMH...
You should come to NM where we have a massive opioid problem that comes with a massive homelessness problem, prostitution, violent crimes and robbery, theft, etc. I'm pretty sure I've never heard on the news about someone giving out sexual favors for a good block of aged Vermont white cheddar or someone being so desperate for their sugar fix that they're going to hand out BJs for Jolly Ranchers.
seriously, I have known friends that have been addicted to Opiods and that is not a pretty picture. I don't think anyone is going to be dumpster diving for sugar to fill their "addiction." I always hated the sugar/food addiction argument because it trivializes real addictions like alcohol, opioids, etc...12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
Physical dependence (which you likely had with the cigarettes, and I have had with caffeine, and which you don't seem to have had with the alcohol, and even many actual alcoholics do not although withdrawal can be deadly for those who do) is not required for something to be addictive, and it is also not sufficient for addiction of the sort we are discussing. It also is not demonstrated in the way you claim -- that certain portions of the brain are affected (again, which occurs in connection with anything we find pleasurable). All that shows is that we find both cheese and opioids pleasurable.
The broader question is whether specific foods are addictive, and I don't think any evidence has been presented for that yet. (It's a different question than whether one can be addicted to food or eating more generally, and there the question is how to classify various addiction-like disordered eating behaviors.)
As I said before, I'm pretty open to the idea that such behaviors can be looked at as a type of addiction, but the notion of only specific foods being addictive (usually ones that one wants to demonize for some reason, as I've mostly heard the cheese one from a few WFPB diet promoters, and we've discussed the sugar one already) is different and unsupported by anything serious.
You also just don't need to prove physical addiction to argue addiction, as the hard part of kicking an addiction (vs. dependence) is typically not primarily the withdrawal. If it were, alcoholics who kick the dependence or don't have it (and it actually takes a lot to develop a physical dependence on alcohol, at least for most) wouldn't have addictive behaviors with it or be so prone to relapse. Same with opioids -- we know how to fix physical dependence, but not how to fix the broader psychological issue, or at least not consistently and in a way that works for everyone.
No there are more foods I agree, which work the same way. I have no problem in saying that probably I'm more addicted to chocolate than I was to cigarettes.
I think you can't find a psychological fix for everyone because everyone at the psychological level is affected in a different way. While there are now medicines that block dopamine receptors "requesting" for more, the psychological dependence has a different strength for every individual. That would take therapy. I happened to think about eating disorder (even though I don't think it effects the same area of the brain... But not sure).0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
Dependence is not addiction. Habit is not dependence.
Not necessarily.
That's kind of the point of quite a few posts in this thread, actually.
We might be saying the same thing in different words. In my language there is no addiction, only dependence. We have drug dependent, not addicted.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Yup...and this is why I have a really hard time being on board with food or sugar addiction or whatever...outlandish claims of sugar being equivalent to alcohol and cheese being the same thing as opioids...SMH...
You should come to NM where we have a massive opioid problem that comes with a massive homelessness problem, prostitution, violent crimes and robbery, theft, etc. I'm pretty sure I've never heard on the news about someone giving out sexual favors for a good block of aged Vermont white cheddar or someone being so desperate for their sugar fix that they're going to hand out BJs for Jolly Ranchers.
seriously, I have known friends that have been addicted to Opiods and that is not a pretty picture. I don't think anyone is going to be dumpster diving for sugar to fill their "addiction." I always hated the sugar/food addiction argument because it trivializes real addictions like alcohol, opioids, etc...
One of my good childhood friends has been a heroin addict for the better part of 30 years...he started using in high school. Over the years he has been on and off the wagon...it was always gnarly seeing him come off the heroin and he's had to check himself in more than a few times...but even more sad when he would fall off the wagon after being sober for months.
In general, he was pretty high function (good career, wife, family, big outdoors kinda guy with hiking and fishing)...but I'm not sure what happened...I haven't seen or heard from him in about 2 years now and nobody seems to know where he is. Last time I was talking to him, he was going through a divorce but seemed ok and had been clean for about a year...after that, he just kinda fell off the map and nobody seems to know where he is. He's no longer employed with the company he worked almost 20 years for...ex-wife has no idea...and he hasn't been in touch with any of the old gang. Pretty sad, and I worry and think about him often.15 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Yup...and this is why I have a really hard time being on board with food or sugar addiction or whatever...outlandish claims of sugar being equivalent to alcohol and cheese being the same thing as opioids...SMH...
You should come to NM where we have a massive opioid problem that comes with a massive homelessness problem, prostitution, violent crimes and robbery, theft, etc. I'm pretty sure I've never heard on the news about someone giving out sexual favors for a good block of aged Vermont white cheddar or someone being so desperate for their sugar fix that they're going to hand out BJs for Jolly Ranchers.
seriously, I have known friends that have been addicted to Opiods and that is not a pretty picture. I don't think anyone is going to be dumpster diving for sugar to fill their "addiction." I always hated the sugar/food addiction argument because it trivializes real addictions like alcohol, opioids, etc...
One of my good childhood friends has been a heroin addict for the better part of 30 years...he started using in high school. Over the years he has been on and off the wagon...it was always gnarly seeing him come off the heroin and he's had to check himself in more than a few times...but even more sad when he would fall off the wagon after being sober for months.
In general, he was pretty high function (good career, wife, family, big outdoors kinda guy with hiking and fishing)...but I'm not sure what happened...I haven't seen or heard from him in about 2 years now and nobody seems to know where he is. Last time I was talking to him, he was going through a divorce but seemed ok and had been clean for about a year...after that, he just kinda fell off the map and nobody seems to know where he is. He's no longer employed with the company he worked almost 20 years for...ex-wife has no idea...and he hasn't been in touch with any of the old gang. Pretty sad, and I worry and think about him often.
It's when you here stories like this, it makes you really wonder about this fixation with food "addiction". I just can't sympathize. It's a mental problem with food--OK. But you have to moderate it. You have to eat to live.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
Dependence is not addiction. Habit is not dependence.
Not necessarily.
That's kind of the point of quite a few posts in this thread, actually.
We might be saying the same thing in different words. In my language there is no addiction, only dependence. We have drug dependent, not addicted.
So someone not dependent is not addicted? No gambling addicts? Only people who suffer real alcohol withdrawal (which again is life threatening) is addicted, even if they demonstrate no control with alcohol and frequently get drunk in situations which have severe negative implications for their life?
Normally, it's actually the opposite -- one can be dependent without being addicted (I think for most caffeine is an example of this), and definitely various anti-depressants must be weaned off due to dependence, but are not actually addictive (the person doesn't crave them later). Some addictions also have dependence, but specific foods clearly do not create a physical dependence. If I stop eating a food I love, I may crave it (and I will address the addiction claim in my next post), but I clearly will not have withdrawal symptoms.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
Physical dependence (which you likely had with the cigarettes, and I have had with caffeine, and which you don't seem to have had with the alcohol, and even many actual alcoholics do not although withdrawal can be deadly for those who do) is not required for something to be addictive, and it is also not sufficient for addiction of the sort we are discussing. It also is not demonstrated in the way you claim -- that certain portions of the brain are affected (again, which occurs in connection with anything we find pleasurable). All that shows is that we find both cheese and opioids pleasurable.
The broader question is whether specific foods are addictive, and I don't think any evidence has been presented for that yet. (It's a different question than whether one can be addicted to food or eating more generally, and there the question is how to classify various addiction-like disordered eating behaviors.)
As I said before, I'm pretty open to the idea that such behaviors can be looked at as a type of addiction, but the notion of only specific foods being addictive (usually ones that one wants to demonize for some reason, as I've mostly heard the cheese one from a few WFPB diet promoters, and we've discussed the sugar one already) is different and unsupported by anything serious.
You also just don't need to prove physical addiction to argue addiction, as the hard part of kicking an addiction (vs. dependence) is typically not primarily the withdrawal. If it were, alcoholics who kick the dependence or don't have it (and it actually takes a lot to develop a physical dependence on alcohol, at least for most) wouldn't have addictive behaviors with it or be so prone to relapse. Same with opioids -- we know how to fix physical dependence, but not how to fix the broader psychological issue, or at least not consistently and in a way that works for everyone.
No there are more foods I agree, which work the same way. I have no problem in saying that probably I'm more addicted to chocolate than I was to cigarettes.
I'm not saying more foods than cheese are addictive, I'm saying I don't think specific foods are addictive. I think there are eating behaviors that are akin to addiction, perhaps (I think quite likely), but that it will not be limited to specific foods. It can be related to foods that one enjoys or tends to focus on at certain times (which would be replaced by others if the food were unavailable) or even generally just foods (as with some binging behaviors).
What do you mean when you say you are addicted to chocolate?I think you can't find a psychological fix for everyone because everyone at the psychological level is affected in a different way. While there are now medicines that block dopamine receptors "requesting" for more, the psychological dependence has a different strength for every individual. That would take therapy. I happened to think about eating disorder (even though I don't think it effects the same area of the brain... But not sure).
I think what we are talking about is an eating disorder (although I am not seeing some huge distinction between very bad eating disorders of various types and addiction, they seem similar to me).
My point about us being able to fix the dependence (through medical means) but that doesn't mean we know how to fix the other (in that the success of various treatments is not all that great) was that there is something more than dependence going on.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
Physical dependence (which you likely had with the cigarettes, and I have had with caffeine, and which you don't seem to have had with the alcohol, and even many actual alcoholics do not although withdrawal can be deadly for those who do) is not required for something to be addictive, and it is also not sufficient for addiction of the sort we are discussing. It also is not demonstrated in the way you claim -- that certain portions of the brain are affected (again, which occurs in connection with anything we find pleasurable). All that shows is that we find both cheese and opioids pleasurable.
The broader question is whether specific foods are addictive, and I don't think any evidence has been presented for that yet. (It's a different question than whether one can be addicted to food or eating more generally, and there the question is how to classify various addiction-like disordered eating behaviors.)
As I said before, I'm pretty open to the idea that such behaviors can be looked at as a type of addiction, but the notion of only specific foods being addictive (usually ones that one wants to demonize for some reason, as I've mostly heard the cheese one from a few WFPB diet promoters, and we've discussed the sugar one already) is different and unsupported by anything serious.
You also just don't need to prove physical addiction to argue addiction, as the hard part of kicking an addiction (vs. dependence) is typically not primarily the withdrawal. If it were, alcoholics who kick the dependence or don't have it (and it actually takes a lot to develop a physical dependence on alcohol, at least for most) wouldn't have addictive behaviors with it or be so prone to relapse. Same with opioids -- we know how to fix physical dependence, but not how to fix the broader psychological issue, or at least not consistently and in a way that works for everyone.
No there are more foods I agree, which work the same way. I have no problem in saying that probably I'm more addicted to chocolate than I was to cigarettes.
I think you can't find a psychological fix for everyone because everyone at the psychological level is affected in a different way. While there are now medicines that block dopamine receptors "requesting" for more, the psychological dependence has a different strength for every individual. That would take therapy. I happened to think about eating disorder (even though I don't think it effects the same area of the brain... But not sure).janejellyroll wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Lots of people rob grocery stores to get their cheese fix.
That can be easily proven (it was also proven through MRI). Take a person who eats a lot of cheese and keep them 1 month without dairy, yet living cheese in their refrigerator.
Yeah, pleasure centers in the brain light up on fMRI when contemplating tasty food, in receptive individuals. Also for things like petting cute kittens. Definitive: Petting kittens is addictive.
I eat cheese daily. Pretty sure I could go a month with some in the fridge, but not eat it. Maybe not if it was a fully ripe well-made brie, or Cypress Grove Humboldt Fog, but y'know, just general cheese, sure, no problem. No dairy at all for a month? Hard for me to get enough protein given current habits, but as long as I get to eat anything else I want, probably could. Cheese in the fridge wouldn't make it harder, except the ones I mentioned. (<= this paragraph is just joking around.)
What's being ignored here is that when people have sufficient motivation, they quit cheese ALL the time. Vegans exist and we managed to do it without checking ourselves into rehab centers. I also know some people who have stopped eating cheese due to various allergy/intolerance issues, they also all managed to do it by deciding "No more cheese for me."
That most people eat cheese is not evidence that it's the equivalent of Oxycontin, it's just an indicator that for most people it's a tasty, easily obtained, affordable, and satisfying food that they have no real reason to give up.
When I was teenager I used to be drunk every Friday Saturday and Sunday quit cold turkey, no rehab. I smoked 30 years almost two packs a day... No rehab. Joints? No rehab. So they are not addictive either.
Being addicted to something it doesn't mean all your D2 receptors are gone. There are levels of dependence and they are different for everyone.
Dependence is not addiction. Habit is not dependence.
Not necessarily.
That's kind of the point of quite a few posts in this thread, actually.
We might be saying the same thing in different words. In my language there is no addiction, only dependence. We have drug dependent, not addicted.
In your language there is no addiction, only dependence... but you’re more addicted to chocolate than you were to cigarettes...
Interesting.11 -
As to the OP question: Why Is Food "Addiction" So Controversial? - I'd say it's just because of our human proclivity to define and pronounce moral judgements on the world around us. For many people, defining a behaviour as an addiction translates into excusing or mitigating that behaviour. For those who fight the good fight every day, or who don't struggle at all, the notion of food addiction can feel like an affront.
Similarly, I sometimes catch myself rolling my eyes at claims of gambling or sex addictions... or even drug and alcohol addictions. Then I remind myself that just because it's not MY thing, doesn't mean it's not A thing.8 -
Her point was pretty obvious.There is no dependence on chocolate (dependence is defined by withdrawal symptoms). There's a well recognized dependence on cigarettes. Cigarettes are also addictive, but many other things that lead to dependence are rarely addictive. Thus, if you say you believe in dependence but not other forms of addiction, it's contrary to that claim to assert that chocolate is more "addictive" (as it is unquestionably not a source of dependence) than cigs.
I would not dispute that you might have more difficultly kicking chocolate or controlling yourself with chocolate (of course, chocolate also does not inherently have the negative health effects of smoking) than cigs, but that wouldn't have a thing to do with dependence, as people do not suffer withdrawal when they stop eating chocolate.6
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