Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Fitness and diet myths that just won't go away
Replies
-
On your MFP rounds, what calorie level got you those weight loss rates each time? What was your calculated TDEE based on intake and loss rate each round?
In 2013 (MFP #1) I averaged about 1450 calories a day, against a BMR that shifted from 1564 at the beginning and 1164 at goal, and a TDEE that was around 170% of BMR. I was walking for two hours a day, cycling to and from work and dancing (Northern Soul and Lindy) for between 4 and 6 hours a week. Towards the beginning I was running a deficit of about 1200 calories a day, and by the end the deficit had closed to about 500 calories a day.
The pattern in 2016 was similar.
This time around, I've not relied on calculators. Instead I've calculated my TDEE myself by logging scrupulously and weighing and measuring absolutely everything I eat and drink. It's currently about 167% of BMR. As at this morning's weigh-in, my TDEE is approximately 2293. I'm currently eating about 1550 calories a day, so I'm running a deficit of about 32%, which is a little higher than I was intending to run it (hence faster weight loss than previously). I raised my calorie budget from 1450 to 1550 last week, and this week I intend to raise it to 1700 to try to slow the loss rate a little. My calorie burn comes from two brisk daily dog walks that total 100-120 minutes, plus some gardening (some strenuous digging but also plenty of gentle weeding), plus the odd gentle cycle ride. I'm on the go most of the day though, so my NEAT burn is pretty high I think.I do think that some people may experience a yo-yo penalty in effective TDEE, via many rounds of extreme yo-yo-ing. Speculatively, the mechanism would be unnecessarily large loss of lean mass in the extreme cuts (high cardio, low calories, lots of salad-y foods, lowball protein) followed by regain (minimal/no exercise, lots of calories, very carb-y and fatty eating, still lowball protein). That's the yo-yo pattern I've often seen in female friends my age (65).
In my regain periods I usually remain pretty active (still walk the dog, still dig/weed, still fidget and move around a lot) but I return to suboptimal eating patterns (portion control slips badly, calorie input rises sharply, albeit from reasonably healthy nutrient-dense foods). I allow larger portions to become the norm.
Slightly lower muscle mass, adaptive thermogenesis, reductions in habits of daily life movement . . . would be a lower effective TDEE than one would have had without those things.
I calculate conservatively that my TDEE for maintenance will be around 300 calories a day lower than that of someone who has the same age, weight, height and activity profile as me. This will be a challenge that I'm trying to use the next year to mentally prepare for. That's why I'm in no rush to reach goal - I need the time to make the mental adjustment.
2 -
Tren_Baloney wrote: »
People who spout that really have no idea how stored body fat is actually burned. They've been brainwashed to think that carbs are evil.Tren_Baloney wrote: »What's this whole keto thing about "keep carbs/sugar low because it'll spike insulin level which makes it harder for your body to burn fat, etc etc, baloney baloney".... or something to that effect
Doesn't a person lose weight (aka burn off fat) regardless of what kinda diet they're on, given they are in a calory deficit?
What's really STUPID is that countries that have normal weights for their WHOLE population eat a lot of rice (Asians). How do they explain that one?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Wait a sec. If Asians eat lots rice.. and keto hates on carbs.. then..
keto = rice discrimination = keto is essentially racist against asians?
Hahaha! Everytime a I hear a keto person bashing rice (there's a real arrogant one on here now) I just point to Asian countries. And it usually shuts them up.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
Bella_Figura wrote: »In my regain periods I usually remain pretty active (still walk the dog, still dig/weed, still fidget and move around a lot) but I return to suboptimal eating patterns (portion control slips badly, calorie input rises sharply, albeit from reasonably healthy nutrient-dense foods). I allow larger portions to become the norm.
A piece of advice I read years back and still follow to this day: eat for the body you want. Whether you want to gain or lose weight, figure out what a person of your goal weight would eat as regular maintenance, and make THAT your new norm. Your body will over time change to be more in line with this new "normal." Yes, the change will be slower than if you actually calculate out a plus/minus x calories per day, but the benefit is you only have to change your eating habits ONCE. Reach your desired weight, your daily eating plan doesn't change one bit to sustain it, you've already been doing it for a while.4 -
I recently remembered a conversation I had with the husband of my wife's best friend, back when I started lifting and began having noticeable changes in my physique. Basically, his advice boiled down to:
Keep your gains small; don't gain too much muscle.
Why? Because he was convinced that not only would added muscle magically morph into fat the second I ever stopped lifting, but also that I would be doomed to lose all joint flexibility and therefore be unable to take care of basic daily needs, such as dressing myself or bathroom hygiene. Well, I've been lifting for over a decade now and have no problems with either of these things, so I'm probably good to go.
My wife wasn't concerned about daily needs, but for years she feared I would turn into Arnold Schwarzenegger, a body type she doesn't find attractive. (She's fine with muscles...think Chippendale's...but not MUSCLE.) Despite me telling her repeatedly I could never reach that level of mass, whether due to genetics, lack of time to workout eight hours per day, lack of money/desire to eat enough food, lack of steroids...her brain may have agreed, but she still held this inner fear. But with time comes acceptance, and the fact I haven't blown up after years of lifting I think has quieted her inner fears, at least to the point she doesn't voice them out loud anymore.2 -
A piece of advice I read years back and still follow to this day: eat for the body you want. Whether you want to gain or lose weight, figure out what a person of your goal weight would eat as regular maintenance, and make THAT your new norm. Your body will over time change to be more in line with this new "normal." Yes, the change will be slower than if you actually calculate out a plus/minus x calories per day, but the benefit is you only have to change your eating habits ONCE. Reach your desired weight, your daily eating plan doesn't change one bit to sustain it, you've already been doing it for a while.
That's the type of strategy I can get my head around! Thank you, you've given me something to ponder on. I've noticed that my mom (born 1929) and my MIL (born 1939) - and even my two closest female friends (born 1960 and 1967) - would never even contemplate serving themselves the same size portion as their husbands. It simply wouldn't enter their heads to do so. And yet I - a 5'1" woman - regularly serve myself the same size portion as my husband, who's 10 inches taller than me and has way more muscle. It doesn't take genius-level intelligence to realise why I struggle with my weight in my off-plan periods! Doesn't matter that it's healthy, nutritious food - there's just way to much of it for someone of my physique. This time around I'm paying much closer attention to portion control, meeting both my macros and calorie goals, and not automatically doling out a man-size portion.
7 -
Well IF someone is say 5'5" 250lbs and trying to get to 140lbs, having them eat maintenance calories for a 140lbs weight would be too large a deficit. Just the shift alone if exercising 1-4 times a week is like 700 calories.Bella_Figura wrote: »In my regain periods I usually remain pretty active (still walk the dog, still dig/weed, still fidget and move around a lot) but I return to suboptimal eating patterns (portion control slips badly, calorie input rises sharply, albeit from reasonably healthy nutrient-dense foods). I allow larger portions to become the norm.
A piece of advice I read years back and still follow to this day: eat for the body you want. Whether you want to gain or lose weight, figure out what a person of your goal weight would eat as regular maintenance, and make THAT your new norm. Your body will over time change to be more in line with this new "normal." Yes, the change will be slower than if you actually calculate out a plus/minus x calories per day, but the benefit is you only have to change your eating habits ONCE. Reach your desired weight, your daily eating plan doesn't change one bit to sustain it, you've already been doing it for a while.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
7 -
Well IF someone is say 5'5" 250lbs and trying to get to 140lbs, having them eat maintenance calories for a 140lbs weight would be too large a deficit. Just the shift alone if exercising 1-4 times a week is like 700 calories.
I misunderstood what @nossmf was saying - I thought he meant that when you're approaching goal weight (say 10lbs away) then start eating as if you're already there, so that the transition is slower. Clearly it wouldn't work for someone with a huge amount of weight still to lose as I agree the deficit would be too big.
0 -
Admittedly, the article I read was, IIRC, talking about transitions of 20 pounds or less. I can see how large changes would need to take a more incremental approach. Theoretically, somebody looking to lose 100 pounds could do this method multiple times, so someone in @ninerbuff example would start at 250, eat as if 230... then upon reaching 230, eat as if 210, etc. But I'm not an expert or medical professional, so take their advice over mine.2
-
This all sounds familiar.
Ahhh...
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/3088-eating-for-future-you
Basically yes, cap the deficit to reasonable, and as you get closer may have to do a 5% decrease to have a meaningful deficit.
But many have used the method and it worked fine.1 -
Back at myths. I admit I didn't re-re-read the thread, so maybe this is in there as a myth:
The idea that a healthy, efficient digestive system, and/or a 'good' gut microbiome, result in absorbing fewer calories from the same amount of food.
Huh? On top of that, if it happened, wouldn't that be tough for the body to manage without also absorbing fewer nutrients from the same amount of food, which seems like a Bad Thing?3 -
Back at myths. I admit I didn't re-re-read the thread, so maybe this is in there as a myth:
The idea that a healthy, efficient digestive system, and/or a 'good' gut microbiome, result in absorbing fewer calories from the same amount of food.
Huh? On top of that, if it happened, wouldn't that be tough for the body to manage without also absorbing fewer nutrients from the same amount of food, which seems like a Bad Thing?
You'd think. Sounds a lot like 'get a tapeworm, lose weight' which certainly is a Bad Thing.
7 -
Lol, I had someone tell me one time it's better to eat nuts than fruit. I could eat one whole mango, or a whole can of cashews. You can guess which one kills my calorie count the most.janejellyroll wrote: »concordancia wrote: »Eating whole foods will make you lose weight. One of the earliest I saw of this was from the South Beach Diet which claimed that no one would sit down and eat a whole loaf of whole grain bread, the way people do white bread. Wanna bet? If you told me I had to eat a whole loaf of bread, I would chose the whole grain, although a nice sourdough would be a close second.
I am a proponent of South Beach/ Med style eating as a way to build a healthful diet, but that doesn't mean you will necessarily lose weight if it doesn't help you control how many calories you are consuming.
Yeah, what? Whole grain bread is often delicious. If it's fresh I could absolutely polish off a loaf.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My brother in law believed that one about nuts. He was always snacking on nuts. So much that he gave himself kidney damage and had to stop eating nuts. He was so confused because he was absolutely certain he was the nutrition expert.
1 -
Re myths - here's a new one (at least, new to me).
I was chatting to my neighbour today and she bemoaned the fact that she'd been on a controlled 1000 calorie a day diet since 1/1/2020, consisting of pre-prepped ingredients and meal plans which are delivered weekly to her door by courier at an exorbitant cost, but that instead of losing weight she was actually 19lbs heavier than when she started 18 months ago despite "sticking 110% to plan".
It must be, she said, because she works in the village chippy, and therefore absorbs fat from the fish and chip frying "because the oil is super-heated and aerosolised and coats my hair and skin, and enters my bloodstream through my pores."
I think this myth must be doing the rounds in my little corner of the UK because she's the third person who's said something similiar to me in the past month.8 -
I do agree if one has say like 10-15lbs to lose by the way. If one is used to eating what their goal maintenance is, then yes it would be much easier for transition.Admittedly, the article I read was, IIRC, talking about transitions of 20 pounds or less. I can see how large changes would need to take a more incremental approach. Theoretically, somebody looking to lose 100 pounds could do this method multiple times, so someone in @ninerbuff example would start at 250, eat as if 230... then upon reaching 230, eat as if 210, etc. But I'm not an expert or medical professional, so take their advice over mine.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Yeah the new "gut" microbiome is creating the next scam for supplements.Back at myths. I admit I didn't re-re-read the thread, so maybe this is in there as a myth:
The idea that a healthy, efficient digestive system, and/or a 'good' gut microbiome, result in absorbing fewer calories from the same amount of food.
Huh? On top of that, if it happened, wouldn't that be tough for the body to manage without also absorbing fewer nutrients from the same amount of food, which seems like a Bad Thing?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
Lol, her skin must be fabulous.Bella_Figura wrote: »Re myths - here's a new one (at least, new to me).
I was chatting to my neighbour today and she bemoaned the fact that she'd been on a controlled 1000 calorie a day diet since 1/1/2020, consisting of pre-prepped ingredients and meal plans which are delivered weekly to her door by courier at an exorbitant cost, but that instead of losing weight she was actually 19lbs heavier than when she started 18 months ago despite "sticking 110% to plan".
It must be, she said, because she works in the village chippy, and therefore absorbs fat from the fish and chip frying "because the oil is super-heated and aerosolised and coats my hair and skin, and enters my bloodstream through my pores."
I think this myth must be doing the rounds in my little corner of the UK because she's the third person who's said something similiar to me in the past month.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 5 -
My personal pet peeve
“Cut out all sugar”
“White sugar is the devil”
And all variations of the same.
If I have the spoons for it? I generally respond with a deadpan “If you don’t eat sugar you will die very quickly.”
I also really hate this one’s corollary “It doesn’t have sugar in it. I used honey”
Which will, if I have zero spoons, earn a hard eye roll. If I do have spoons I will inform them that a person’s pancreas can’t tell the difference between white sugar and honey. And their “it doesn’t have sugar, I used honey!” can be very harmful to a diabetic.
4 -
https://thebeautybrains.com/2014/04/can-skin-lotion-make-you-fat-the-beauty-brains-show-episode-27/
Clearly the fat-absorption-through-the-skin myth has been around a while...1 -
Not to mention when people think brown sugar is more healthy than plain old white granulated sugar.MargaretYakoda wrote: »My personal pet peeve
“Cut out all sugar”
“White sugar is the devil”
And all variations of the same.
If I have the spoons for it? I generally respond with a deadpan “If you don’t eat sugar you will die very quickly.”
I also really hate this one’s corollary “It doesn’t have sugar in it. I used honey”
Which will, if I have zero spoons, earn a hard eye roll. If I do have spoons I will inform them that a person’s pancreas can’t tell the difference between white sugar and honey. And their “it doesn’t have sugar, I used honey!” can be very harmful to a diabetic.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
Oh thank you - now I know how to increase the calorie count for my breakfast when winter camping and make it delicious.
And I was just adding dried fruit - how foolish, and not enough calories.1 -
Not to mention when people think brown sugar is more healthy than plain old white granulated sugar.MargaretYakoda wrote: »My personal pet peeve
“Cut out all sugar”
“White sugar is the devil”
And all variations of the same.
If I have the spoons for it? I generally respond with a deadpan “If you don’t eat sugar you will die very quickly.”
I also really hate this one’s corollary “It doesn’t have sugar in it. I used honey”
Which will, if I have zero spoons, earn a hard eye roll. If I do have spoons I will inform them that a person’s pancreas can’t tell the difference between white sugar and honey. And their “it doesn’t have sugar, I used honey!” can be very harmful to a diabetic.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But you have to admit it tastes SOOO much better sometimes, like with pumpkin, or apples, or caramel popcorn, or—-3 -
Which can be a detriment to some. So much easier to overindulge.corinasue1143 wrote: »
Not to mention when people think brown sugar is more healthy than plain old white granulated sugar.MargaretYakoda wrote: »My personal pet peeve
“Cut out all sugar”
“White sugar is the devil”
And all variations of the same.
If I have the spoons for it? I generally respond with a deadpan “If you don’t eat sugar you will die very quickly.”
I also really hate this one’s corollary “It doesn’t have sugar in it. I used honey”
Which will, if I have zero spoons, earn a hard eye roll. If I do have spoons I will inform them that a person’s pancreas can’t tell the difference between white sugar and honey. And their “it doesn’t have sugar, I used honey!” can be very harmful to a diabetic.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But you have to admit it tastes SOOO much better sometimes, like with pumpkin, or apples, or caramel popcorn, or—-
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
My partner’s mother was told that of she went on too long a bike ride, her body, having depleted carb stores, would start cannibalizing muscle.3
-
Which can be a detriment to some. So much easier to overindulge.corinasue1143 wrote: »
Not to mention when people think brown sugar is more healthy than plain old white granulated sugar.MargaretYakoda wrote: »My personal pet peeve
“Cut out all sugar”
“White sugar is the devil”
And all variations of the same.
If I have the spoons for it? I generally respond with a deadpan “If you don’t eat sugar you will die very quickly.”
I also really hate this one’s corollary “It doesn’t have sugar in it. I used honey”
Which will, if I have zero spoons, earn a hard eye roll. If I do have spoons I will inform them that a person’s pancreas can’t tell the difference between white sugar and honey. And their “it doesn’t have sugar, I used honey!” can be very harmful to a diabetic.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But you have to admit it tastes SOOO much better sometimes, like with pumpkin, or apples, or caramel popcorn, or—-
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Which brings me to another myth:
Portion control takes too much effort.
Because no, it does not.
The right tools do help. But it’s a habit that really doesn’t take too much to develop (assuming the individual isn’t living with food insecurity)
0 -
To completely deplete carbs stores would stop someone dead in their tracks and they'd lay on the ground. Some people read too many bro magazine articles.My partner’s mother was told that of she went on too long a bike ride, her body, having depleted carb stores, would start cannibalizing muscle.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 4 -
My aunt says she can eat as much guacamole as she wants and goes through a tub a day because she says "it's healthy fats it helps burn fat". She doesn't understand the concept of calories despite explaining it to her AGAIN and AGAIN.4
-
Bella_Figura wrote: »Re myths - here's a new one (at least, new to me).
I was chatting to my neighbour today and she bemoaned the fact that she'd been on a controlled 1000 calorie a day diet since 1/1/2020, consisting of pre-prepped ingredients and meal plans which are delivered weekly to her door by courier at an exorbitant cost, but that instead of losing weight she was actually 19lbs heavier than when she started 18 months ago despite "sticking 110% to plan".
It must be, she said, because she works in the village chippy, and therefore absorbs fat from the fish and chip frying "because the oil is super-heated and aerosolised and coats my hair and skin, and enters my bloodstream through my pores."
I think this myth must be doing the rounds in my little corner of the UK because she's the third person who's said something similiar to me in the past month.
Hahahaha, this really made me laugh ! 0 -
Antiopelle wrote: »Bella_Figura wrote: »Re myths - here's a new one (at least, new to me).
I was chatting to my neighbour today and she bemoaned the fact that she'd been on a controlled 1000 calorie a day diet since 1/1/2020, consisting of pre-prepped ingredients and meal plans which are delivered weekly to her door by courier at an exorbitant cost, but that instead of losing weight she was actually 19lbs heavier than when she started 18 months ago despite "sticking 110% to plan".
It must be, she said, because she works in the village chippy, and therefore absorbs fat from the fish and chip frying "because the oil is super-heated and aerosolised and coats my hair and skin, and enters my bloodstream through my pores."
I think this myth must be doing the rounds in my little corner of the UK because she's the third person who's said something similiar to me in the past month.
Hahahaha, this really made me laugh !
I particularly liked the 'aerosolised' comment - gave a real ring of scientific truth to what was otherwise a load of tosh!2 -
Lol, her skin must be fabulous.Bella_Figura wrote: »Re myths - here's a new one (at least, new to me).
I was chatting to my neighbour today and she bemoaned the fact that she'd been on a controlled 1000 calorie a day diet since 1/1/2020, consisting of pre-prepped ingredients and meal plans which are delivered weekly to her door by courier at an exorbitant cost, but that instead of losing weight she was actually 19lbs heavier than when she started 18 months ago despite "sticking 110% to plan".
It must be, she said, because she works in the village chippy, and therefore absorbs fat from the fish and chip frying "because the oil is super-heated and aerosolised and coats my hair and skin, and enters my bloodstream through my pores."
I think this myth must be doing the rounds in my little corner of the UK because she's the third person who's said something similiar to me in the past month.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Very off-topic, but that was actually one of the first questions my dermatologist asked me (what job I had) when I went to him for my acne. When I looked puzzled at this (for me irrelevant) question, he went on to explain that some people get acne from for example working in a 'chippy'!3
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 424 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions