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Fitness and diet myths that just won't go away

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  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 45,143 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 45,143 Member
    That you can "lengthen" your muscles making you look leaner. Yoga and pilates state this a lot.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
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  • ythannahythannah Member Posts: 3,740 Member Member Posts: 3,740 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    That you can "lengthen" your muscles making you look leaner. Yoga and pilates state this a lot.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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    Even if you could, you really wouldn't want to.

    I managed to lengthen some of the tendons in my rotator cuff (I have hyperextensive joints, it wasn't on purpose!)... you know, the ones that stabilize your shoulder. I now have subluxation in that joint. In other words, a very very unstable shoulder.
  • penguinmama87penguinmama87 Member, Premium Posts: 555 Member Member, Premium Posts: 555 Member
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    That you can "lengthen" your muscles making you look leaner. Yoga and pilates state this a lot.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Even if you could, you really wouldn't want to.

    I managed to lengthen some of the tendons in my rotator cuff (I have hyperextensive joints, it wasn't on purpose!)... you know, the ones that stabilize your shoulder. I now have subluxation in that joint. In other words, a very very unstable shoulder.

    All of my kids have been late walkers, likely because they have hyperextensive joints - I never really considered it until one was so late he qualified for early intervention services, and the therapist tested his ankles and then on a hunch checked my other kids too.

    Surprisingly, we haven't had much in the way of major injuries (kind of amazing because they are constantly engaging in wild and dangerous activities, as children should).

    I dug out a workout video recently that I remembered I owned and their whole shtick is "long, lean, sexy muscles." Now that I know that's all marketing, I don't think I can do the video anymore with a straight face. Though I do often put them on mute, so maybe that would be fine.

  • ythannahythannah Member Posts: 3,740 Member Member Posts: 3,740 Member
    ythannah wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    That you can "lengthen" your muscles making you look leaner. Yoga and pilates state this a lot.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Even if you could, you really wouldn't want to.

    I managed to lengthen some of the tendons in my rotator cuff (I have hyperextensive joints, it wasn't on purpose!)... you know, the ones that stabilize your shoulder. I now have subluxation in that joint. In other words, a very very unstable shoulder.

    All of my kids have been late walkers, likely because they have hyperextensive joints - I never really considered it until one was so late he qualified for early intervention services, and the therapist tested his ankles and then on a hunch checked my other kids too.

    Surprisingly, we haven't had much in the way of major injuries (kind of amazing because they are constantly engaging in wild and dangerous activities, as children should).

    I wasn't wild or athletic so mine wasn't diagnosed until my late 40s. Although I've always been able to dislocate (and re-locate) one of my thumbs, I just thought that was one of my weird "things". I had gone to physiotherapy for that shoulder and the PT was putting me through a very thorough assessment. She asked me to put my arm behind my back as high as possible and when I did she screamed (and said, "No, don't do that".) Then she immediately started testing all my joints and finally informed me they were hyperextensive.

    The worst thing is repeatedly overextending the joint's range of motion, which I was doing without realizing that my shoulder really shouldn't move like that.
  • TX375TX375 Member, Premium Posts: 11 Member Member, Premium Posts: 11 Member
    "Supplements work".

    No. They don't. I wish I'd known that in my 20's when ironically, some of them did work because they were spiked with anabolic steroids...
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 45,143 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 45,143 Member
    TX375 wrote: »
    "Supplements work".

    No. They don't. I wish I'd known that in my 20's when ironically, some of them did work because they were spiked with anabolic steroids...
    Yeah, the prohormones back in the 2000's were pretty potent.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • Tren_BaloneyTren_Baloney Member Posts: 20 Member Member Posts: 20 Member
    I've kinda wondered if "hard gainer" is a legit thing, wondered if some of us who have tried adding muscle mass are just impatient.
    edited June 13
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 45,143 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 45,143 Member
    I've kinda wondered if "hard gainer" is a legit thing, wondered if some of us who have tried adding muscle mass are just impatient.
    Well most of the time I hear of hard gainers, I come to find out that they just don't eat enough to support adding muscle. When you tell a kid he has to eat 4000 calories a day due to his activity, they BELIEVE they do when in reality they may just eat 2500.
    So are their hard gainers? Well I believe based on genetics and in some cases people flat out not being able to handle overload well, there are hard gainers. I know lots of guys who would like arms like mine and train like I do and don't get them. For me, it's hamstrings. I spend over 2 years trying to get them to match my quads and still to no avail.



    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • Tren_BaloneyTren_Baloney Member Posts: 20 Member Member Posts: 20 Member
    What's this whole keto thing about "keep carbs/sugar low because it'll spike insulin level which makes it harder for your body to burn fat, etc etc, baloney baloney".... or something to that effect

    Doesn't a person lose weight (aka burn off fat) regardless of what kinda diet they're on, given they are in a calory deficit?
  • ninerbuffninerbuff Member, Greeter Posts: 45,143 Member Member, Greeter Posts: 45,143 Member
    What's this whole keto thing about "keep carbs/sugar low because it'll spike insulin level which makes it harder for your body to burn fat, etc etc, baloney baloney".... or something to that effect

    Doesn't a person lose weight (aka burn off fat) regardless of what kinda diet they're on, given they are in a calory deficit?
    People who spout that really have no idea how stored body fat is actually burned. They've been brainwashed to think that carbs are evil.
    What's really STUPID is that countries that have normal weights for their WHOLE population eat a lot of rice (Asians). How do they explain that one?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • Tren_BaloneyTren_Baloney Member Posts: 20 Member Member Posts: 20 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    "You have to do cardio to burn off fat".

    Myth for sure: Cardio burns calories. If you're in deficit, with or without cardio, you'll burn fat. Cardio helps to create a calorie deficit and/or allows you to eat more if your calorie restriction to lose weight is low (say 1200 a day).

    You see so many instructors, trainers, Youtubers, etc. telling people that if they aren't doing cardio, they aren't going to lose weight. Or that doing their cardio program will be how they will lose stubborn fat.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    On the flip side you have people like V Shred who love bombarding YouTube with ads saying shock value statements like "If you're trying to burn fat, STOP doing cardio, I know that sounds counterproductive....."

    🙄

    You can do cardio.. you can do strictly anaerobic training.. you can do both.. it's all in the deficit for losing weight


    I wish I'd tested the CICO thing sooner. Could've skipped tons of broccoli/chicken/rice bro diets, realized flexible dieting much sooner and how it makes sustainable, long-term commitment so much more tolerable
  • Tren_BaloneyTren_Baloney Member Posts: 20 Member Member Posts: 20 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What's this whole keto thing about "keep carbs/sugar low because it'll spike insulin level which makes it harder for your body to burn fat, etc etc, baloney baloney".... or something to that effect

    Doesn't a person lose weight (aka burn off fat) regardless of what kinda diet they're on, given they are in a calory deficit?
    People who spout that really have no idea how stored body fat is actually burned. They've been brainwashed to think that carbs are evil.
    What's really STUPID is that countries that have normal weights for their WHOLE population eat a lot of rice (Asians). How do they explain that one?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Well.... I was plenty ignorant myself at one point, or... stoopider than now. Ignorance isn't always bliss. I could chime in and call people stupid but some people just don't know 🤷🏻‍♂️. Gotta educate people on these things
    edited June 13
  • Tren_BaloneyTren_Baloney Member Posts: 20 Member Member Posts: 20 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What's this whole keto thing about "keep carbs/sugar low because it'll spike insulin level which makes it harder for your body to burn fat, etc etc, baloney baloney".... or something to that effect

    Doesn't a person lose weight (aka burn off fat) regardless of what kinda diet they're on, given they are in a calory deficit?
    People who spout that really have no idea how stored body fat is actually burned. They've been brainwashed to think that carbs are evil.
    What's really STUPID is that countries that have normal weights for their WHOLE population eat a lot of rice (Asians). How do they explain that one?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Wait a sec. If Asians eat lots rice.. and keto hates on carbs.. then..

    keto = rice discrimination = keto is essentially racist against asians?
  • Tren_BaloneyTren_Baloney Member Posts: 20 Member Member Posts: 20 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What's this whole keto thing about "keep carbs/sugar low because it'll spike insulin level which makes it harder for your body to burn fat, etc etc, baloney baloney".... or something to that effect

    Doesn't a person lose weight (aka burn off fat) regardless of what kinda diet they're on, given they are in a calory deficit?
    People who spout that really have no idea how stored body fat is actually burned. They've been brainwashed to think that carbs are evil.
    What's really STUPID is that countries that have normal weights for their WHOLE population eat a lot of rice (Asians). How do they explain that one?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Wait a sec. If Asians eat lots rice.. and keto hates on carbs.. then..

    keto = rice discrimination = keto is essentially racist against asians?



    slmpx0807jk3.png

    Keto is bigoted and if you partake in keto then you're inherently being racist against Asians
  • Tren_BaloneyTren_Baloney Member Posts: 20 Member Member Posts: 20 Member
  • glassyoglassyo Member Posts: 5,302 Member Member Posts: 5,302 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What's this whole keto thing about "keep carbs/sugar low because it'll spike insulin level which makes it harder for your body to burn fat, etc etc, baloney baloney".... or something to that effect

    Doesn't a person lose weight (aka burn off fat) regardless of what kinda diet they're on, given they are in a calory deficit?
    People who spout that really have no idea how stored body fat is actually burned. They've been brainwashed to think that carbs are evil.
    What's really STUPID is that countries that have normal weights for their WHOLE population eat a lot of rice (Asians). How do they explain that one?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Wait a sec. If Asians eat lots rice.. and keto hates on carbs.. then..

    keto = rice discrimination = keto is essentially racist against asians?

    Finally! Algebra comes in handy.
  • Tren_BaloneyTren_Baloney Member Posts: 20 Member Member Posts: 20 Member
    glassyo wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    What's this whole keto thing about "keep carbs/sugar low because it'll spike insulin level which makes it harder for your body to burn fat, etc etc, baloney baloney".... or something to that effect

    Doesn't a person lose weight (aka burn off fat) regardless of what kinda diet they're on, given they are in a calory deficit?
    People who spout that really have no idea how stored body fat is actually burned. They've been brainwashed to think that carbs are evil.
    What's really STUPID is that countries that have normal weights for their WHOLE population eat a lot of rice (Asians). How do they explain that one?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

    Wait a sec. If Asians eat lots rice.. and keto hates on carbs.. then..

    keto = rice discrimination = keto is essentially racist against asians?

    Finally! Algebra comes in handy.

    Count on critical race theory to put abstract mathematics to use 😉
  • Bella_FiguraBella_Figura Member Posts: 247 Member Member Posts: 247 Member
    I've read through the whole thread and I don't think anyone's mentioned the assertion that a history of yo-yo dieting means that you've royally screwed up your metabolism and will henceforth lose at a snail's pace (or not at all).

    IME this is a myth.

    Because I'm a nerd I have the records of all my previous major weight loss attempts, dating back to 1993 when I was 28.

    In 1993 (age 28) I lost 74lbs to reach a BMI of 29.8. It took me 44 weeks (loss rate of 1.6lbs a week). I fueled myself badly and did tons of unsustainable high intensity exercise to achieve this loss rate.

    In 2006 (age 41) I lost 54lbs to reach a BMI of 31.3. It took me 35 weeks (loss rate of 1.54lbs a week). Again, I fueled myself badly and exercised like a loon to achieve the loss rate.

    In 2013 (age 48) I lost 88lbs to reach a BMI of 25. It took me 52 weeks to lose the first 78lbs (a loss rate of 1.5lbs per week) and a further 15 weeks to lose the last 10lbs (a loss rate of 0.67lbs a week). This time I was using MFP so I fueled myself better and didn't get quite so obsessive about exercise. I thought I'd finally 'cracked it' and that I'd learned the lessons of how to maintain a healthy weight. I was mistaken.

    In 2016 (age 51) I lost 44lbs to reach a BMI of 28.6. It took me 40 weeks ( a loss rate of 1.067 a week). Again I was using MFP so I fueled myself well and did sustainable amounts of exercise.

    This brings me to the current day. I'm at the beginning of the journey, but I started in March 2021 (age 55). Twelve weeks later, I've lost 26.2lbs ( a loss rate of a little over 2lbs a week.) I'm eating really well, paying attention to both calories and macros, and focusing on sustainable exercise (dog walking, gardening, the odd cycle ride) and increasing my NEAT.

    Clearly, despite four previous lengthy and successful weight loss programmes (followed by frighteningly rapid regains) I haven't screwed up my metabolism for seeing results when I run a calorie deficit. I'm now 56, post menopausal, exercising moderately, eating well, and yet losing at a faster rate than ever before.

    Where I think yo-you dieting MAY have screwed me up metabolically/neurologically etc. is in terms of MAINTAINING the weight loss. I've always regained quickly, meaning most of my adult life (and most of my childhood and adolescence) was spent either overweight or obese. I'm under no illusions about the challenges of maintenance for someone in my situation with my weight loss/regain history.

    But yo-yo dieting and past failures rendering weight loss per se difficult or impossible - no, I'm living proof that that link isn't proven.
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Member, Premium Posts: 20,279 Member Member, Premium Posts: 20,279 Member
    I've read through the whole thread and I don't think anyone's mentioned the assertion that a history of yo-yo dieting means that you've royally screwed up your metabolism and will henceforth lose at a snail's pace (or not at all).

    IME this is a myth.

    Because I'm a nerd I have the records of all my previous major weight loss attempts, dating back to 1993 when I was 28.

    In 1993 (age 28) I lost 74lbs to reach a BMI of 29.8. It took me 44 weeks (loss rate of 1.6lbs a week). I fueled myself badly and did tons of unsustainable high intensity exercise to achieve this loss rate.

    In 2006 (age 41) I lost 54lbs to reach a BMI of 31.3. It took me 35 weeks (loss rate of 1.54lbs a week). Again, I fueled myself badly and exercised like a loon to achieve the loss rate.

    In 2013 (age 48) I lost 88lbs to reach a BMI of 25. It took me 52 weeks to lose the first 78lbs (a loss rate of 1.5lbs per week) and a further 15 weeks to lose the last 10lbs (a loss rate of 0.67lbs a week). This time I was using MFP so I fueled myself better and didn't get quite so obsessive about exercise. I thought I'd finally 'cracked it' and that I'd learned the lessons of how to maintain a healthy weight. I was mistaken.

    In 2016 (age 51) I lost 44lbs to reach a BMI of 28.6. It took me 40 weeks ( a loss rate of 1.067 a week). Again I was using MFP so I fueled myself well and did sustainable amounts of exercise.

    This brings me to the current day. I'm at the beginning of the journey, but I started in March 2021 (age 55). Twelve weeks later, I've lost 26.2lbs ( a loss rate of a little over 2lbs a week.) I'm eating really well, paying attention to both calories and macros, and focusing on sustainable exercise (dog walking, gardening, the odd cycle ride) and increasing my NEAT.

    Clearly, despite four previous lengthy and successful weight loss programmes (followed by frighteningly rapid regains) I haven't screwed up my metabolism for seeing results when I run a calorie deficit. I'm now 56, post menopausal, exercising moderately, eating well, and yet losing at a faster rate than ever before.

    Where I think yo-you dieting MAY have screwed me up metabolically/neurologically etc. is in terms of MAINTAINING the weight loss. I've always regained quickly, meaning most of my adult life (and most of my childhood and adolescence) was spent either overweight or obese. I'm under no illusions about the challenges of maintenance for someone in my situation with my weight loss/regain history.

    But yo-yo dieting and past failures rendering weight loss per se difficult or impossible - no, I'm living proof that that link isn't proven.

    I agree with you that "yo-yo history = metabolic doom, so weight loss doom" is inaccurate.

    But n=1 is living proof that it isn't universally impossible to lose. "More difficult" is more subjective.

    On your MFP rounds, what calorie level got you those weight loss rates each time? What was your calculated TDEE based on intake and loss rate each round?

    I do think that some people may experience a yo-yo penalty in effective TDEE, via many rounds of extreme yo-yo-ing. Speculatively, the mechanism would be unnecessarily large loss of lean mass in the extreme cuts (high cardio, low calories, lots of salad-y foods, lowball protein) followed by regain (minimal/no exercise, lots of calories, very carb-y and fatty eating, still lowball protein). That's the yo-yo pattern I've often seen in female friends my age (65). There's possibly some amount of adaptive thermogenesis simply from repeated weight loss, independent of inappropriate/extreme methods used to do it. I'd also suspect there could be potential for reduced daily life calorie expenditure, through gradually increased habits of inactivity (conspiracy of fatigue during loss, unfitness during regain, making it less natural/fun/easy to be active in daily non-exercise life, not necessarily consciously so).

    Slightly lower muscle mass, adaptive thermogenesis, reductions in habits of daily life movement . . . would be a lower effective TDEE than one would have had without those things.

    Of course, none of that makes it impossible to lose weight . . . but could make it somewhat more difficult to lose, or to maintain. (IOW, I suspect a lower TDEE potentially makes loss a little more difficult, psychologically and socially.)

    This is a complete aside, but I wonder how much yo-yo-ing is statistically cooked into the decline in BMR/RMR estimated by the research-based formulas, since yo-yo dieting history is so relatively common among older age people, especially women. Ditto for unfitness, to the degree that it's discretionary and lifestyle-dependent vs. biologically inevitable with aging. I completely understand that statistical models aren't reality, and do drop out factors that are potentially meaningful at n=1, but not in averages . . . but it's interesting to me that BMR/RMR estimates that include a body fat percent factor (so implicitly consider probable lean mass thus possibly muscularity) don't have the same age penalty that estimates not including BF% do have.
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