Mental Health and Weight Loss: The Right Balance
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^ I do agree. So many things, food, sex, connection, exercise etc. feel good because our body rewards us for them so we'll keep doing them as it thinks these things are necessary for survival. Some of those things are necessary, but that has put us in a bit of a predicament as now many foods are designed by companies to be hyper rewarding and it's hijacking that survival pathway in a similar way though to a lesser degree as drugs do in addiction.
Childhood and parenting at least in my case would have been crucial. If my parents did better having me eating yummy fresh foods from a young age instead of buying McDonalds, I don't think I'd have struggled as much. My mom also struggles with mental illness, eating disorders, and chronic dieting, so growing up I saw her eating her feelings as well as going for all the slimfast shakes, jenny craig meals, weight watchers, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if when she saw me crying at age 8 begging to have more potato chips so I could eat my feelings, she felt guilty since that's how she dealt with her feelings. I've been really craving fresh greens, fruit, and whole grains lately, but that's because I've been making myself eat them and figuring out how I like them prepared. Now I remember how they taste and actually crave them.
Some people decide they'd be better off depriving themselves, but I constantly feel like there's gotta be a happy medium to be achieved somehow if for the right techniques. Through accepting my mental health I've been trying less to work AGAINST my human nature and more to work WITH it and I find it a lot less frustrating. So like, if I can't get out of bed until work, fine use the momentum from after work to get things done instead. Speaking of which, I just bought a kSafe lol and I love it so far. Some artificial discipline & motivation is something I'm trying to incorporate more, so I can have my cake and eat it too, figuratively and literally.2 -
Interesting Alexandra, Hey do you (or others) think food ought not to be used as rewards/motivation for children in order t modify behaviour? Perhaps this sets up the link (neurological connections) that make us attach food to receiving approval or at least a sense of achievement?
Yes, food ought not to be used as a reward (or withheld as a punishment). There have been threads here with people talking about how childhood reward/punishment scenarios involving food have contributed to their dysfunctional relationships with food as adults.
Is it possible that some families used food as reward/punishment without it scarring the kids? Sure, anything is possible, and it's less likely that people will post "this happened to me, and I was not hurt by it". To the extent that material rewards/punishments are needed in child rearing - and I'm not saying that they are, or how much they are - it should be possible to use things that are not required for a healthy life in the way that food is.
Personally I tried to just make sure that the consequences of behavior (good and bad) were things the kids could learn from. Both by commenting positively when they did well and were helpful and tidy, and by commiserating when things went wrong, but making it clear that this is what happens when you do this or don't do that. And making sure that the consequences were safe ones to suffer. (You learn not to jump off high things if you break both legs jumping off the roof, but maybe you should have learned that at a lower elevation where you just scared yourself and bruised your rear a bit instead.)1 -
I'm so disappointed. 3.9 kg increase in 2 weeks. Back to the drawing board. No-one to blame but myself. Trying not to beat myself up. Going to return to intermittent fasting and Keto. Let's see how it goes. Hard not to feel like a failure after all of the hard work.
No pity party. Just get back on the horse and get on with it.
I am either the problem or the solution. I guess
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I'm so disappointed. 3.9 kg increase in 2 weeks. Back to the drawing board. No-one to blame but myself. Trying not to beat myself up. Going to return to intermittent fasting and Keto. Let's see how it goes. Hard not to feel like a failure after all of the hard work.
No pity party. Just get back on the horse and get on with it.
I am either the problem or the solution. I guess
That's a large increase for it to just be fat - you'd need a pretty significant calorie surplus to actually gain that much weight in that short a time. How often are you weighing? You might have just caught yourself on a high water retention day. I typically weigh once per week, but recently I was away from home and so I had two weigh ins that were about three days apart. According to the scale, I lost four pounds in that time. Now, that's going the way I want it to go, but I definitely didn't have a 14,000 calorie deficit over those three days. I probably just had water weight that had to sort itself out due to slightly different circumstances. You may have gained a little bit of fat if you were eating at a surplus, but I would not be surprised if it's less than you're thinking - potentially a lot less.
If IF and keto are ways of eating for you that work, then do it! But if they make you miserable and you can't stick to a reasonable calorie deficit while doing that, it's OK to find another strategy that will work for you.
Last weekend I had two unplanned surplus days and it was discouraging, and I won't be surprised if the scale doesn't move or goes up this week. I still won't like it, but in terms of my entire lifespan those days are drops in a bucket. In my case I learned not to drink alcohol and order pizza, especially not at the same time! What can you learn from these past two weeks that will help you moving forward?3 -
Dear Penguinmam,
Thank you so much for you lovely message. It was informative, sensitive and really helpful. You put things in perspective for me and that just made me feel so much better. I was shocked to notice the "weight gain" but maybe the fluctuations are due to other forces of nature? I suppose the good thing is that I may have prevented that "slippery slope" that I know so well.My best friend made me a peanut butter cheese cake for my birthday and I am afraid that it didn't last very long. It was Keto friendly but somehow I think the amount of nuts and cheese moved the arrow in the wrong direction for this old cowboy. It was pretty damn yummy though. Ok..I heard what you said about IF and Keto and you were very respectful. I know that Keto dieting is complex and controversial and I do not think it will be my bestie for very long but may just for a a couple of week so that I can knock off few unwanted Kg? We are in lockdown here in Qld Australia so its a wee bi challenging but as Mom said, nothing really important is ever easy. Thanks again. Your message really helped
Shel
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Good news. Scales today were a bit more forgiving. Down to 1.4 kg which meant that the weight gain was only 1.4 kg and not 3.9. It was a wake up call however as I know I have been eating too much of the "foods" that take me down the rabbit hole. I am pleased that I flipped the switch again this week. Isn't the mind an amazing thing? We can't control much in our lives but we can certainly control our responses and reactions to what happens to us and around us. I value my body and I want it to be fit and healthy. It is only me, myself and I that can make this a reality. No failure...just learning and discovering and being respectful to the challenge and accepting the ups and downs. Thanks for your support. I love this forum. It is a big help in so many ways. Nice people and smart advice and information.2
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Dear Penguinmam,
Thank you so much for you lovely message. It was informative, sensitive and really helpful. You put things in perspective for me and that just made me feel so much better. I was shocked to notice the "weight gain" but maybe the fluctuations are due to other forces of nature? I suppose the good thing is that I may have prevented that "slippery slope" that I know so well.My best friend made me a peanut butter cheese cake for my birthday and I am afraid that it didn't last very long. It was Keto friendly but somehow I think the amount of nuts and cheese moved the arrow in the wrong direction for this old cowboy. It was pretty damn yummy though. Ok..I heard what you said about IF and Keto and you were very respectful. I know that Keto dieting is complex and controversial and I do not think it will be my bestie for very long but may just for a a couple of week so that I can knock off few unwanted Kg? We are in lockdown here in Qld Australia so its a wee bi challenging but as Mom said, nothing really important is ever easy. Thanks again. Your message really helped
Shel
I think you had a key insight, in the bolded. Keto can be great, some people find it helps them manage appetite much more easily, has other benefits for them as individuals, and that's great.
Unfortunately, some of the adherents seem to imply that one can eat whatever one wants, however much one wants, and weight loss will happen as long as a person stays in keto**. Unfortunately, calories still matter, and some keto-friendly foods are very calorie-dense and tempting. (Your birthday cheesecake sounds *very* tempting, and most cheesecake is calorie-dense.) That's not to say that one should never eat things like that, but some portion control needs to be in the picture, if weight management is the goal.
(** If the thing I starred above were true, how would anyone ever maintain their goal weight while eating keto? I don't understand how the people who seem to believe keto = weight loss would explain that. For clarity, I'm not saying that *you* believe the thing in the starred sentence; but some people whose posts I've read here do seem to believe it.)
Happy belated birthday, by the way: A bit of indulgence at birthday time is very suitable, IMO.
You may find that some more of the seeming weight gain will drop away still, i.e., turn out to have been water weight or something like that, so that the actual gain not only isn't 3.9kg but also isn't even 1.4kg . . . hard to say for sure, but the future will answer that question better.
Best wishes!2 -
I am so excited as I am back to 100g and exercise is going well. Eating well and feeling great. I feel happy with my progress and my (renewed) commitment to the calorie deficit process. I think being able to explore my thoughts and feelings on this platform has and continues to be a significant factor in assisting in my progress. Perhaps, the "learning" is that some of us in the the murky world of weight management need to work through (untangle?) our thought processes and confused and often conflictual priorities. I know that I have been a difficult member and complained rather than problem-solved with regards to my frustrations with my own processes and challenges. I brought the wrath of the platform monitors ( and rightly so) on me and I imagine I could have lost the privilege of utilising the resources. I am grateful that I was given a second chance to colour between the lines and prove that I can write in a respectful and friendly manner. I would describe myself as a slow learner with a tendency to be defensive but over the years I have done my best to have insight into my character and present myself in a better light. I do my best.
20 more KG to go. Bring it on. Thank you everyone.
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I am completely sure that our moods and ways of looking at life intersect and even intertwine with our eating behaviours and food choices. The mind is such a powerful thing. I imagine my brain as my computer and my mind(me) sitting at a desk program the amazing piece of technology. It does what I need it to do. I am aware that I may not be able to ask the computer to do tasks for which there are no easy solutions so one has to be realistic...but short of the unanswerable questions and mysteries of life, the damn thing is pretty cool. Of course we may need guidance and direct if we get confused with what we want to achieve and what we may be choosing that blows us off course. But that is the magic of life. Growth and development requires freedom to be perfectly imperfect and learn from our mistakes. Having a good stage. It's nice
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A bit of fluctuation over the past week. family stress, too much work, Covid, climate change, Afghanistan etc.
How do we balance our small worlds lodged in the global scene?Sometimes it's all too hard.1 -
I think us overeaters have no idea how to manage sensations of hunger and the actual cues that our bodies generate. I think we eat to dissociate or to distract from what is really going on in our minds. I am going to stop all sugar ad flour based substances for a while and try ad get in touch with my hunger and my feelings.
Wish me luck.
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I was so sad to learn that I have gained 5 kg in the past 2 weeks. Why is there such fluctuations in my weight. I am driving myself crazy. I feel like giving up but here I am....going to try again
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I was so sad to learn that I have gained 5 kg in the past 2 weeks. Why is there such fluctuations in my weight. I am driving myself crazy. I feel like giving up but here I am....going to try again
I got a lot of insight from weighing daily so that I could watch what was going on in real time. It let me know that I was up two pounds today from yesterday. Now, I know quite well I didn't eat THAT much! But I ate out, and I bet that food was way saltier than what I cook at home. So I will watch over the next few days and see how long it takes my body to let loose of that water. Overall I am trending downward and I am being patient; I didn't gain this weight in a few months, and I shouldn't be worried that it's taking a few months to lose it.
The trick is to just log the number somewhere and not get all spun up about it. Then you can look at it over a week and a month and average it and see what's going on with your body.
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@shel80kg I am a bit unclear if you're doing keto or not and whether you're weighing weekly or daily.
A large part of your disappointments seem to me to be coming from what I would call incorrect scale expectations and it is a bit of a pity if you're getting seriously side-tracked by measurement errors.
5kg = 11lbs = about 2750 Cal a day OVERAGE in order to be gained over two weeks. As a mythical average male you would have to be hitting EVERY DAY for two weeks an intake of about 5500 Cal a day. And even then you might not achieve an 11lb overage. If you're exercising any degree of restraint it would be a bit unlikely for you to be hitting such a high intake. And if you are, then you may want to contemplate choosing different foods that are more filling and, perhaps, dare I say, a bit less appealing to you
**IF you're doing keto** which I noticed you said you may be doing, you are most likely literally playing with water weight, i.e. the component of your total weight that is NOT related to the stored energy reserves (fat) that you want to lose.
During keto induction (and when you stray and consume a few too many carbs) your weight changes due to loss and regain of NON FAT tissue. Namely your glycogen stores empty and replenish and this is a change that does affect your weigh in; but does not actually affect your fat reserves.
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I very much appreciate the (collective) wisdom offered to mere plebes such as me. If I can embrace the science of weight management rather than become distracted by the emotional/"psychological" points of view, I think I can get into a consistent and constructive paradigm of success. Thank you
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A common theme in many of the threads here on mfp, is the mental aspect of weight loss. The emotional struggle with eating less. Having and dealing with hunger. I literally had to reprogram my brain. That is really what worked for me. Changing my relationship with food by using the 4 golden rules of weight loss and visualization. I forget where I learned it. Probably could google it and find it somewhere. May not work for everyone, but certainly made a difference for me. Cravings completely disappeared and my body learned to recognize the difference between cravings and real hunger. The strange thing was that my body started letting me know what I NEEDED, which altered the types of food I wanted. I think we all agree weight loss is CICO, but not dealing with the mental part means relying on sheer will power, which is so difficult. The mental is what creates the lifestyle change.2
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I would really like to learn the 4 "golden" rules
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I would like to explore the strategies that you are using to move forward in having healthy relationships with your body, with food and with the idea of "loosing" weight. One question that has really challenged me over the years is whether mental health factors link directly to how we create, establish, maintain and worry about how heavy we are. Do we use our bodies as a barometer of how we truly feel about ourselves? Do you we use weight as a protective measure in certain cases? Do we give up on our bodies and use food as a type of comfort or friend? I would really love to know what you think if you are comfortable sharing. Clearly, dieting in the conventional sense does not work for a lot of us. Why not? The "Gurus" tell us that, notwithstanding any metabolic problems that we face due to disease, genetics etc...it is just a matter of "Calories In and Calories out". If it is this simple, than why is it so hard for some of our brains to turn on to this simple mathematical reality? What goes on in our deeper minds to avoid, discourage and perhaps even sabotage our hard work? Look forward to hearing from you friends.
@shel80kg
This is a great question
So for me my weight has always fluctuated. I’ve never been a naturally skinny guy medium build but when my mental health goes to pot then I eat rubbish to get by also know as comfort eating. Then after I get to a horrible state I start eating healthier and exercise like a mad man, basically I go thru extremes.
What also sometimes gets me going is challenges. So at work we have a weight loss challenge with prizes. Here is where my competitiveness comes into play and I will go all out. I find that with a lot of people trying to get fit they require some sort of motivation, holiday, competition and even a break up.
Now I’ve got myself into a decent shape I still eat crap but I Makesure I exercise 4/5 times a week to keep myself balance as I still go thru issues from time to time and turn to food but unlike before I make sure I burn it all off.
The other thing that spurred me on to train was was to stop myself from going through a complete breakdown. I lost my brother to covid right at the start and I needed something to keep my mind from breaking. It was the hardest thing. Since all the gyms closed I took up running at the start of covid and havnt stopped since. Ive done well over 1000 miles. Every run was torture but once finished I felt better.
I still have a my issues with food mainly as I’m still battling the demons inside but atleast I’m still running and live in hope that one day food is just food and not my medicine.
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The 4 golden rules are as follows:
1 - if you are hungry, eat. (Cravings and real hunger are two different things and sensations.) this applies to actual hunger, not cravings. Cravings are a different sensation and should be dealt with differently.
2 - eat what you want, not what you think you should. Naturally thin people eat pizza, chips, candy, etc. just a lot less of it. Eventually your body will tell you what it needs.
3 - practice conscious eating. Also referred to as mindful eating. Take a bite and chew about 20 times before taking another bite. Savor the flavors. Consciously think about each bite. Set your spoon or fork down between bites. Do not read, use your phone, watch tv, use your tablet, etc, while eating. Focus completely on your eating. When we distract ourselves while eating, we shovel food in our mouths and dont allow our bodies to recognize we are full. By taking the time to eat mindfully, we will recognize being full sooner.
4 - when full, stop eating. At first, it may seem you are wasting food and feel guilty. You will then realize you can prepare smaller portions as to not be wasteful. If it seems you ate so little and think your full but not sure, sit and wait three or four minutes. If hunger comes back, then continue eating. Otherwise you are done and stop eating.
For visualizations - think of a food that is your guilty pleasure. One that you know sort of sabotages your weight loss. For instance, mine was chips and ice cream. Can eat it like no ones business. Bags and bags, pints and pints of it. Now think of a food or substance that disgusts you. Something that if you ate it would make you want to spit it out or vomit. Now think of that disgusting substance and mix it with your guilty pleasure. Imagine eating it. Tasting it. Totally disgusted by it. Do this a few time each day and you will not crave that guilty pleasure because of the association with the disgusting substance.
Another visualization is to imagine how you want to look. Arnold Swartsenager talks about this a lot when discussing how he created the body he wanted for body building. Picture yourself as you currently look. Now picture standing on front of you is a slightly slimmer version of you. Float your current version of yourself into the lighter version of yourself. Now imagine an even slightly slimmer version of yourself. And continue floating into the slimmer version of yourself until you have reached your ideal version.
These are just a few visualization techniques that have helped reprogram my thinking. May or may not work for you. But if it is something you want to try, you have to do it repeatedly. i usually do it every night right when I lay down to sleep. It is not a one and done thing. But like so many here, calorie counting isnt a problem. Knowing how weight loss works is not a problem. Peoples relationship with food is a problem. Motivation is a problem. Dealing with cravings and binge eating is a problem. It certainly worked for me.
I would be curious if it works for you if you decide to try it. Best thing, it is free and doesnt hurt you or anyone else.1 -
The 4 golden rules are as follows:
1 - if you are hungry, eat. (Cravings and real hunger are two different things and sensations.) this applies to actual hunger, not cravings. Cravings are a different sensation and should be dealt with differently.
I like this suggestion although I think I may be way beyond discriminating between hunger an cravings. Can you tell me more about what would be the distinguishing features. I suspect it is different from person to person.
2 - eat what you want, not what you think you should. Naturally thin people eat pizza, chips, candy, etc. just a lot less of it. Eventually your body will tell you what it needs.
I'm not sure I agree with this. I think we need to be mindful with what we eat; especially if we have found it difficult to set limits to quantity. This is one of the main challenges for people with eating issues.
3 - practice conscious eating. Also referred to as mindful eating. Take a bite and chew about 20 times before taking another bite.Seriously???
Savor the flavors. Consciously think about each bite. Set your spoon or fork down between bites. Do not read, use your phone, watch tv, use your tablet, etc, while eating. Focus completely on your eating. When we distract ourselves while eating, we shovel food in our mouths and dont allow our bodies to recognize we are full. By taking the time to eat mindfully, we will recognize being full sooner.
I perceive this suggestion as one of those "slick" suggestions which always sounds good and looks good on handouts. How many people do you think would really count their bites? Sorry but it doesn't fit reality.
4 - when full, stop eating. At first, it may seem you are wasting food and feel guilty. You will then realize you can prepare smaller portions as to not be wasteful. If it seems you ate so little and think your full but not sure, sit and wait three or four minutes. If hunger comes back, then continue eating. Otherwise you are done and stop eating.
I like the suggestion. Great to play with the idea of portions and make them congruent with being full.
For visualizations - think of a food that is your guilty pleasure. One that you know sort of sabotages your weight loss. For instance, mine was chips and ice cream. Can eat it like no ones business. Bags and bags, pints and pints of it. Now think of a food or substance that disgusts you. Something that if you ate it would make you want to spit it out or vomit. Now think of that disgusting substance and mix it with your guilty pleasure. Imagine eating it. Tasting it. Totally disgusted by it. Do this a few time each day and you will not crave that guilty pleasure because of the association with the disgusting substance.
Nope, I do not think this "clock work orange" kind of approach lasts. It's too negative and works again that sense of being positive and harmonious with ourselves. We should not demonise food. Just regulate it.
Another visualization is to imagine how you want to look. Arnold Swartsenager talks about this a lot when discussing how he created the body he wanted for body building. Picture yourself as you currently look. Now picture standing on front of you is a slightly slimmer version of you. Float your current version of yourself into the lighter version of yourself. Now imagine an even slightly slimmer version of yourself. And continue floating into the slimmer version of yourself until you have reached your ideal version.
These are just a few visualization techniques that have helped reprogram my thinking. May or may not work for you. But if it is something you want to try, you have to do it repeatedly. i usually do it every night right when I lay down to sleep. It is not a one and done thing. But like so many here, calorie counting isnt a problem. Knowing how weight loss works is not a problem. Peoples relationship with food is a problem. Motivation is a problem. Dealing with cravings and binge eating is a problem. It certainly worked for me.1
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