Where Does Frank Medrano Get His Protein?
Replies
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http://www.ravnskov.nu/A hypothesis out of date.pdf
Abstract
An almost endless number of observations and experiments have effectively falsified the hypothesis that dietary cholesterol and fats, and a high cholesterol level play a role in the causation of atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease. The hypothesis is maintained because allegedly support- ive, but insignificant findings, are inflated, and because most contradictory results are misinterpreted, misquoted or ignored. © 2002 Elsevier Sci- ence Inc. All rights reserved.
http://www.drbriffa.com/2011/09/21/huge-study-finds-gaping-holes-in-the-cholesterol-hypothesis/
This and for those of you that like your anecdotal evidence...my grandparents lived into their 90's despite the fact that my grandfather had white bread and butter at every meal and my grandmother was famous for her fried potatoes. My dad is 93 and has always consumed meat, dairy and *gasp* food that has been artificially sweetened. Despite being obese for most of my adult life, my blood work has always been stellar despite eating a typical American diet. I think you'll find that genetics plays a much larger role in illness and being vegan won't save you from that.0 -
hey, my great aunt lived to be 109 and ate banana pudding with cream like it was going out of style. Her older brother (my great-grandfather) lived to be 101, and he ate bacon or sausage every day he was able. For all the anecdotes that exist on one side of an argument, there are plenty to counter on the other side. Those just aren't the ones most people *want* to hear. Fitness is very much a religion for many people. They will believe what they want to believe, what makes them feel good, and far too often what justifies whatever thing they want to do... even if it's not supported by fact.0
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I should add that I dodged a bullet by having good genetics because I do believe that obesity is the cause of many health issues and that getting the weight off, is the most important thing, however you choose to do that. My grandparents were very slender and my dad has maintained a 30 pound weight loss for over 40 years.0
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http://www.whataplantknows.com/
Plants are alive and just like the animals that died to feed you, they were born/planted and raised to feed you. If we didn't eat them they never would have been born. I agree with not wasting food, buy what you need, eat what you can and use the leftovers.I am not anti meat eaters hell my husband is one but I wish people would at least eat with more reverence something died to feed you no matter what you eat don't waste food! I know that's not the topic here but throwing that out there since there are a lot of people arguing about silly things
are you saying plants aren't alive?
So you saying you think plants can feel pain? Like a calf? Or a piglet?0 -
if you want to learn more behind the ethical reasons why a lot of people don't eat meat. This video is very informative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys
As for my other comment yes I meant ALL life is precious. Every last thing on this planet. I choice to eat plants because I want to reduce my carbon foot print.
I also find it moral wrong to try and push your believes on others. I will not preach at you. I will not judge you. I only ask the same respect. I am trying to offer a different point of view. I hope the information helps0 -
In b4 the lock! WIll try to read more later. Looking up pescaterian right now!! :laugh:0
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Bump to see if any science does come of this, because I like science. Doubtful though, as this has become the oh so typical former unhealthy person found the holy grail of health and gets all bum hurt when multiple, very healthy individuals, challenge their views. These same people also happen to have shown time and time again their capabilities of not only determining credibility of research, but also how to properly analyze said research. But, you know, "science" also argues that man never walked on the moon and that the footage was done in some desolate place outside of Yuma, so who am I to speak.
To sum up how these always go.....
OP: "It's a scientific fact that......."
Peanut Gallery: "Can you link to a study that validates that?"
OP: "See attached link"
Gallery: "That isn't a scientific study"
OP: "Try this one then"
Gallery: "Again, not a scientific study, any others"
At this point OP stops trying
Enter typical "Well, I know what works for me, stop telling me what I can and can't say, none of you know what you are talking about" responses.0 -
c'mon now... putting something in a gif file doesn't make it more sensible. Just because humans have evolved to higher levels of efficiency doesn't mean it's somehow less "ethical" than hunting in the wild. The human population on earth would have to be a very small percentage of what it is today in order to support the hunter/gatherer lifestyle of our ancestors becoming the norm. As we continue to increase our numbers by orders of magnitude, we have to find new ways to eat. Factory farming is one of the many ugly necessities of an overpopulated world. Society is more complicated now, and not everyone can be 100% self-sufficient. It just cannot work that way, not anymore.
if you want to learn more behind the ethical reasons why a lot of people don't eat meat. This video is very informative:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys
As for my other comment yes I meant ALL life is precious. Every last thing on this planet. I choice to eat plants because I want to reduce my carbon foot print.
I also find it moral wrong to try and push your believes on others. I will not preach at you. I will not judge you. I only ask the same respect. I am trying to offer a different point of view. I hope the information helps
Carbon footprint is not the only thing at play here; space is a big concern. We *could* all switch to being vegetarian / vegan. The number of cultivated acres would need to go up significantly, which would necessitate deforestation... which is regarded by some as "unethical" as well. Not only that, but the very large number of non-meat products that come from byproducts of harvesting meat would need to come from somewhere, too. FWIW, those "carbon footprint" numbers appear to assume that the load is not shared with byproducts. You probably use several of those byproducts today...
To add another interesting tidbit - most of the cattle we consume in america graze on uncultivated land that requires very, very little maintenance other than what nature provides. That land, as-is, is generally not very good for growing other crops without massive irrigation and fertilization efforts. Guess where most of that fertilizer comes from? In /some/ respects, eating beef is one of the most environmentally friendly things you can do. You can really put any kind of spin on this thing that you like, if you cherry-pick the facts.0 -
Logic/10 solid post
c'mon now... putting something in a gif file doesn't make it more sensible. Just because humans have evolved to higher levels of efficiency doesn't mean it's somehow less "ethical" than hunting in the wild. The human population on earth would have to be a very small percentage of what it is today in order to support the hunter/gatherer lifestyle of our ancestors becoming the norm. As we continue to increase our numbers by orders of magnitude, we have to find new ways to eat. Factory farming is one of the many ugly necessities of an overpopulated world. Society is more complicated now, and not everyone can be 100% self-sufficient. It just cannot work that way, not anymore.
if you want to learn more behind the ethical reasons why a lot of people don't eat meat. This video is very informative:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys
As for my other comment yes I meant ALL life is precious. Every last thing on this planet. I choice to eat plants because I want to reduce my carbon foot print.
I also find it moral wrong to try and push your believes on others. I will not preach at you. I will not judge you. I only ask the same respect. I am trying to offer a different point of view. I hope the information helps
Carbon footprint is not the only thing at play here; space is a big concern. We *could* all switch to being vegetarian / vegan. The number of cultivated acres would need to go up significantly, which would necessitate deforestation... which is regarded by some as "unethical" as well. Not only that, but the very large number of non-meat products that come from byproducts of harvesting meat would need to come from somewhere, too. FWIW, those "carbon footprint" numbers appear to assume that the load is not shared with byproducts. You probably use several of those byproducts today...
To add another interesting tidbit - most of the cattle we consume in america graze on uncultivated land that requires very, very little maintenance other than what nature provides. That land, as-is, is generally not very good for growing other crops without massive irrigation and fertilization efforts. Guess where most of that fertilizer comes from? In /some/ respects, eating beef is one of the most environmentally friendly things you can do. You can really put any kind of spin on this thing that you like, if you cherry-pick the facts.0 -
Being obese and sedentary has more to do with your cholesterol and heart disease than what you eat.
Meat eaters rejoice!
Vegans, continue to eat what you want. There are plenty of reasons to be vegan. Cholesterol and weight loss are not.0 -
c'mon now... putting something in a gif file doesn't make it more sensible. Just because humans have evolved to higher levels of efficiency doesn't mean it's somehow less "ethical" than hunting in the wild. The human population on earth would have to be a very small percentage of what it is today in order to support the hunter/gatherer lifestyle of our ancestors becoming the norm. As we continue to increase our numbers by orders of magnitude, we have to find new ways to eat. Factory farming is one of the many ugly necessities of an overpopulated world. Society is more complicated now, and not everyone can be 100% self-sufficient. It just cannot work that way, not anymore.
if you want to learn more behind the ethical reasons why a lot of people don't eat meat. This video is very informative:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys
As for my other comment yes I meant ALL life is precious. Every last thing on this planet. I choice to eat plants because I want to reduce my carbon foot print.
I also find it moral wrong to try and push your believes on others. I will not preach at you. I will not judge you. I only ask the same respect. I am trying to offer a different point of view. I hope the information helps
Carbon footprint is not the only thing at play here; space is a big concern. We *could* all switch to being vegetarian / vegan. The number of cultivated acres would need to go up significantly, which would necessitate deforestation... which is regarded by some as "unethical" as well. Not only that, but the very large number of non-meat products that come from byproducts of harvesting meat would need to come from somewhere, too. FWIW, those "carbon footprint" numbers appear to assume that the load is not shared with byproducts. You probably use several of those byproducts today...
To add another interesting tidbit - most of the cattle we consume in america graze on uncultivated land that requires very, very little maintenance other than what nature provides. That land, as-is, is generally not very good for growing other crops without massive irrigation and fertilization efforts. Guess where most of that fertilizer comes from? In /some/ respects, eating beef is one of the most environmentally friendly things you can do. You can really put any kind of spin on this thing that you like, if you cherry-pick the facts.
I respect your point of view but the animals are not treated well in these farms pure and simple. I agree with some of what you said and wish you the best. By trying to support your local farmers you can actual do a lot of small things that add up. Also you can form some amazing relationships.0 -
fair enough. for what it's worth, I do try to support my local farmers. Here in TX I get to see all sorts of cattle ranching, and those big dumb beasts have it pretty dern good. Better than most humans on this planet do... until slaughterhouse day, anyway
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Unhealthy, like saturated fat, hormones, antibiotics, cholesterol... Yup...
And don't forget the dairy industry waste product of cheese making called "whey"
Because saturated fat is bad?
Yea Dont take antibiotics when you get sick. very unhealthy.
cholesterol and saturated fat is very unhealthy. its bad for your heart. Take a lesson from the French who average 200 cholesterol, extremely high saturated fat intake, and have less heart disease than america.
yea whey is a waste product definitely is not a Biproduct.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Keep up the good work. I can tell its working well for you.0 -
fair enough. for what it's worth, I do try to support my local farmers. Here in TX I get to see all sorts of cattle ranching, and those big dumb beasts have it pretty dern good. Better than most humans on this planet do... until slaughterhouse day, anyway
Its not really cattle that suffer the worst abuse pigs, chicken, and poultry have it far far worse. I was raised in oklahoma and had the misfortune of being raised around both pig and chicken farms. They have extremely harmed the local water sources and the smell is gut wrenching. The chickens are pressed into massive houses that hold 10-15 thousand chickens that are covered in filth surver genetic disorders and are often left to rot. They bury these 1000s of chickens in huge sheddes that spread disease attract pests and also smell to high heaven. The pig farmers are worse these animals are trampled, shocked, biten, and have massive sores all over them.0 -
Bump to see if any science does come of this, because I like science. Doubtful though, as this has become the oh so typical former unhealthy person found the holy grail of health and gets all bum hurt when multiple, very healthy individuals, challenge their views. These same people also happen to have shown time and time again their capabilities of not only determining credibility of research, but also how to properly analyze said research. But, you know, "science" also argues that man never walked on the moon and that the footage was done in some desolate place outside of Yuma, so who am I to speak.
To sum up how these always go.....
OP: "It's a scientific fact that......."
Peanut Gallery: "Can you link to a study that validates that?"
OP: "See attached link"
Gallery: "That isn't a scientific study"
OP: "Try this one then"
Gallery: "Again, not a scientific study, any others"
At this point OP stops trying
Enter typical "Well, I know what works for me, stop telling me what I can and can't say, none of you know what you are talking about" responses.
You missed out the bit where he says "this is our last conversation" :laugh:0 -
Oh dear - another potentially interesting and informative thread goes downhill as the hyenas close in to finish off the scraps. Same ole MFP.0
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Oh dear - another potentially interesting and informative thread goes downhill as the hyenas close in to finish off the scraps. Same ole MFP.
As the OP continually said in his replies - he does not like censored speech, this works both ways, that is how it works.0 -
Agreed - a shame he left the debate so soon.0
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Never mind the fact that saturated fat and cholesterol are necessary for testosterone production. No wondered those vegans in the Eastern cultures hid themselves in the mountainsUnhealthy, like saturated fat, hormones, antibiotics, cholesterol... Yup...
And don't forget the dairy industry waste product of cheese making called "whey"
Because saturated fat is bad?
Yea Dont take antibiotics when you get sick. very unhealthy.
cholesterol and saturated fat is very unhealthy. its bad for your heart. Take a lesson from the French who average 200 cholesterol, extremely high saturated fat intake, and have less heart disease than america.
yea whey is a waste product definitely is not a Biproduct.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Keep up the good work. I can tell its working well for you.0 -
Never mind the fact that saturated fat and cholesterol are necessary for testosterone production. No wondered those vegans in the Eastern cultures hid themselves in the mountainsUnhealthy, like saturated fat, hormones, antibiotics, cholesterol... Yup...
And don't forget the dairy industry waste product of cheese making called "whey"
Because saturated fat is bad?
Yea Dont take antibiotics when you get sick. very unhealthy.
cholesterol and saturated fat is very unhealthy. its bad for your heart. Take a lesson from the French who average 200 cholesterol, extremely high saturated fat intake, and have less heart disease than america.
yea whey is a waste product definitely is not a Biproduct.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Keep up the good work. I can tell its working well for you.
Just for reference - you don't need dietary cholesterol for testosterone production.
Carry on with the anti-vegan stuff. :yawn:0 -
Just for reference - you don't need dietary cholesterol for testosterone production.
Carry on with the anti-vegan stuff. :yawn:
There's been very little anti-vegan stuff in this thread.0 -
"Cholesterol performs three main functions:
Never mind the fact that saturated fat and cholesterol are necessary for testosterone production. No wondered those vegans in the Eastern cultures hid themselves in the mountainsUnhealthy, like saturated fat, hormones, antibiotics, cholesterol... Yup...
And don't forget the dairy industry waste product of cheese making called "whey"
Because saturated fat is bad?
Yea Dont take antibiotics when you get sick. very unhealthy.
cholesterol and saturated fat is very unhealthy. its bad for your heart. Take a lesson from the French who average 200 cholesterol, extremely high saturated fat intake, and have less heart disease than america.
yea whey is a waste product definitely is not a Biproduct.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Keep up the good work. I can tell its working well for you.
Just for reference - you don't need dietary cholesterol for testosterone production.
Carry on with the anti-vegan stuff. :yawn:
It helps make the outer coating of cells.
It makes up the bile acids that work to digest food in the intestine.
It allows the body to make Vitamin D and hormones, like estrogen in women and testosterone in men.
Without cholesterol, none of these functions would take place, and without these functions, human beings wouldn't exist."
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Understanding_Cholesterol.htm0 -
"Cholesterol performs three main functions:
Never mind the fact that saturated fat and cholesterol are necessary for testosterone production. No wondered those vegans in the Eastern cultures hid themselves in the mountainsUnhealthy, like saturated fat, hormones, antibiotics, cholesterol... Yup...
And don't forget the dairy industry waste product of cheese making called "whey"
Because saturated fat is bad?
Yea Dont take antibiotics when you get sick. very unhealthy.
cholesterol and saturated fat is very unhealthy. its bad for your heart. Take a lesson from the French who average 200 cholesterol, extremely high saturated fat intake, and have less heart disease than america.
yea whey is a waste product definitely is not a Biproduct.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Keep up the good work. I can tell its working well for you.
Just for reference - you don't need dietary cholesterol for testosterone production.
Carry on with the anti-vegan stuff. :yawn:
It helps make the outer coating of cells.
It makes up the bile acids that work to digest food in the intestine.
It allows the body to make Vitamin D and hormones, like estrogen in women and testosterone in men.
Without cholesterol, none of these functions would take place, and without these functions, human beings wouldn't exist."
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Understanding_Cholesterol.htm
Yes, that's correct. But irrelevant - you don't need DIETARY cholesterol - we make enough.0 -
c'mon now... putting something in a gif file doesn't make it more sensible. Just because humans have evolved to higher levels of efficiency doesn't mean it's somehow less "ethical" than hunting in the wild. The human population on earth would have to be a very small percentage of what it is today in order to support the hunter/gatherer lifestyle of our ancestors becoming the norm. As we continue to increase our numbers by orders of magnitude, we have to find new ways to eat. Factory farming is one of the many ugly necessities of an overpopulated world. Society is more complicated now, and not everyone can be 100% self-sufficient. It just cannot work that way, not anymore.
Carbon footprint is not the only thing at play here; space is a big concern. We *could* all switch to being vegetarian / vegan. The number of cultivated acres would need to go up significantly, which would necessitate deforestation... which is regarded by some as "unethical" as well. Not only that, but the very large number of non-meat products that come from byproducts of harvesting meat would need to come from somewhere, too. FWIW, those "carbon footprint" numbers appear to assume that the load is not shared with byproducts. You probably use several of those byproducts today...
To add another interesting tidbit - most of the cattle we consume in america graze on uncultivated land that requires very, very little maintenance other than what nature provides. That land, as-is, is generally not very good for growing other crops without massive irrigation and fertilization efforts. Guess where most of that fertilizer comes from? In /some/ respects, eating beef is one of the most environmentally friendly things you can do. You can really put any kind of spin on this thing that you like, if you cherry-pick the facts.
I think there's something very important here that might get lost in all of the other awesome that made up this post: that there are very important real-world ramifications to the extrapolation of an individual dietary philosophy to the population at large. For instance, at a personal level, a person might believe, for whatever reason, that a vegan diet is the "correct" dietary method.
That's perfectly fine for them, and if they're happy, more power to them. However, if everyone were to turn vegan tomorrow, what would happen? The meat industry would die a fast death (which many would applaud as a bonus). We would have to convert grazing land into farmland - perhaps not a problem for America, but what about England or Japan? Other, less developed countries? Places without good farmland?
What about other movements, such as the locavore concept? This is one that's near and dear to my heart, personally. Again, if extrapolated to the world as a whole, there are some pretty huge obstacles to implementation.
What about a meat-only diet? I doubt the world could even sustain the amount of food animals necessary for sustenance.
None of the above issues even get into the byproduct industries (pet foods, plastics, rubber, glues, soaps -- hell, even some sugars are processed using filters made from animal byproducts) that would inevitably fail when their raw materials get used up, or the inevitable societal collapse when millions of people starve to death because they're not lucky enough to live in a country that is amenable to one's particular dietary belief system.0 -
"Cholesterol performs three main functions:
It helps make the outer coating of cells.
It makes up the bile acids that work to digest food in the intestine.
It allows the body to make Vitamin D and hormones, like estrogen in women and testosterone in men.
Without cholesterol, none of these functions would take place, and without these functions, human beings wouldn't exist."
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Understanding_Cholesterol.htm
That poster is correct. Dietary cholesterol intake does not correlate with blood serum cholesterol levels (in fact, carbohydrate metabolism is a better mechanism for blood serum cholesterol production).0 -
Just for reference - you don't need dietary cholesterol for testosterone production.
Carry on with the anti-vegan stuff. :yawn:
There's been very little anti-vegan stuff in this thread.
None is needed. I'm not vegan (not even close) but it gets old.0 -
Just for reference - you don't need dietary cholesterol for testosterone production.
Carry on with the anti-vegan stuff. :yawn:
There's been very little anti-vegan stuff in this thread.
None is needed. I'm not vegan (not even close) but it gets old.
Why the need for the snark, then? There's a legitimately good conversation happening here among a reasonable group of people with far different viewpoints. If it "gets old," as you say, then why not either quit perpetuating it or join in the good discussion that we'd previously been having?0 -
"Cholesterol performs three main functions:
It helps make the outer coating of cells.
It makes up the bile acids that work to digest food in the intestine.
It allows the body to make Vitamin D and hormones, like estrogen in women and testosterone in men.
Without cholesterol, none of these functions would take place, and without these functions, human beings wouldn't exist."
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Understanding_Cholesterol.htm
That poster is correct. Dietary cholesterol intake does not correlate with blood serum cholesterol levels (in fact, carbohydrate metabolism is a better mechanism for blood serum cholesterol production).
My understanding is that dietary cholesterol DOES correlate with blood cholesterol, but it is not the major component of blood cholesterol.0 -
Just for reference - you don't need dietary cholesterol for testosterone production.
Carry on with the anti-vegan stuff. :yawn:
There's been very little anti-vegan stuff in this thread.
None is needed. I'm not vegan (not even close) but it gets old.
Why the need for the snark, then? There's a legitimately good conversation happening here among a reasonable group of people with far different viewpoints. If it "gets old," as you say, then why not either quit perpetuating it or join in the good discussion that we'd previously been having?
How am I being snarky?
How am I perpetuating anti-vegan sentiment? Do you have me confused for someone else?0 -
This lady knows her sh!!t....Read her stuff...0
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