Asked for help, REFUSED! *rant*
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OP - they probably don't want you dropping dead on them in the middle of a class.
Go to the gym, get a trainer. Start slow.0 -
OP, I'm sure there are others who feel the same way you do and would like to lose weight by healthy eating and exercise, even if their BMI is above 40. Maybe you should see what the hospital program entails as it may be the same program with some minor variations that keep exercise safe for those with a higher BMI. You may find that you will be involved with others that want to experience the same type of weight loss goals that you desire.
If the hospital program is vastly different, you can look in to other alternatives!! By the time you reach a BMI of 40, you will be able to start your own class!! You will be an expert with a lot of knowledge to offer others!!0 -
OP, in case you worry that it might take for ever to lower your BMI, I just want to let you know that I lowered my BMI from 45.7 to 37.3 in just under four month with just walking 30 minutes a day , but eating in the most disciplined manner ( and mostly succeeding ) way possible. I am 40 years plus older than you and figure lowering your BMI doing what MFP suggests ( and with a MD's OK) should be very do-able for you.
Good Luck and come back, some of us don't bite and give pretty good advise.....:o). !0 -
When I was a little girl, my brother was in the Cub Scouts. They got to do all kinds of really cool stuff and went camping, etc. I wanted to join. I was not allowed to, because I was a girl. Instead, I had to join Brownies, where they made us wear ugly brown dresses, and did stupid crafts and ****. It wasn't fair, either.
OMG! The same here! Stupid boys always got to have fun! I hate crafts to this day!
Stupid crocheted pot holders...
Awww.....not all crocheted potholders are stupid.
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Pretty sure the MD's comments had nothing to do with liability and everything to do with keeping the friend as safe and healthy when exercising as possible. You may not know this, but CPR does not save most people, even when performed by professionals and with a defibrillator present. When it's performed by a layperson, well, the percentage saved falls into the single digits. Best to avoid needing it in the first place.
And? If your friend is 500 lbs and working, there's just as much stress taking a shower and dressing or getting in and out of a vehicle back and forth to work as walking around a building. Sorry, but I'm still completely appalled. Unless you're "forcing" this friend to walk at an inappropriate pace or distance, then I stand behind my original comment. As to cardiac arrest, 88% of the time it happens at home (not out walking with a friend) and CPR can double the rate of survivability...just in case you didn't know. Does your friend know why you stopped walking with her?0 -
I don't think it's fair that a yacht costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and I can't afford one. They should sell them for $10 so everyone can have one.I know it is entitle to make it's own rules but I just think those rules are not fair. I don't want to have to go to a hospital to get help, I want help in that kind of setting. I really feel I would benefit from it, so I don't know why I can't. I think I could keep up because I have as good brain as anyone and I always try my best. I don't know why they assume I couldn't. I don't know that there are any other groups out there, this is the main local organisation for this sort of thing. It's just really frustrating
No need to be condescending to the man! Just because he is upset does not mean that he does not understand the concept of "life isn't fair"0 -
Hmmmmm I'd be interested to see more of this context. Is this a non-profit organization? Where does it say you can't participate if you have a BMI of over 40, and please show the liability? I think I would want more clarification, and want to see in black and white their policy. If it's an organization for profit you might have more of a leg to stand on.
If you feel you were discriminated against maybe talk to a lawyer.0 -
Perhaps not a hospital per se, but consulting with your primary care physician is advisable in all case/ stages of weightloss/fitness. Just to establish a basic health baseline that is unique to you. No doctor I know would ever recommend against leading a healthier lifestyle, but they may be a good resource for you to build momentum and keep up the work your doing because they can give you a picture of your overall health and direct you towards resources (like the ones you are seeking now) that would welcome you.0
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Please don't be offended by being told you need the team "the next floor up"
it's all in the interest of you getting the best possible service for you. Do yourself a favour and check them out. :flowerforyou:
Didnt sound like they told him to go to the next tier though just go to a hospital. They didnt offer him much help, but maybe the staff on that tier level are just ignorant and dont understand how their own tier system works.0 -
And remember even a Tier 4 service will be completely free of charge. The NHS is great like that.
Is a tier 4 only for surgical intervention? If you were at a teir 4 but decided that you didnt want surgery would there be other options?
Why the H! cant the states do something like this...no instead we got Obummercare :grumble:0 -
this is what I assumed as well.I'm sure their recommendation to seek help at the hospital was purely due to liability issues. Try not to take it personally.0 -
If i could get free help be it from a community center or a hospital, i would take it in a heartbeat. Hospital may even provide you things like a nutritionist. Dont let the setting bring you down.0
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I get you. Keep working it and soon they will be seeking you out. Go girl!0
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I so get this and wish it weren't such a universal problem for addictive personalities, but it most likely is part of the very reason we are having this problem in the first place. I have struggled with taking responsibility for myself all my life. I have taken it personally. I have felt hopeless and helpless. I have viewed others as uninterested and uncaring. All these emotions are, as hard as it is to admit, very self centered and selfish. There is great freedom that comes with acknowledging you are responsibility and you are empowered to turn the situation around. I'm 57 and have gained and lost the same 60 pounds for decades. I pray to never ever go there again, but it is totally up to me. Stress, weariness, frustration, sadness, wounds - they all need some healing. There is no healing in food. It's a fix. Nutrition can work for us to help heal our health, but it is not emotional medicine. My personal opinion? Let the LORD loose to help us lose!0
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If you BMI is over there threshold, they may feel you may have physical problems that need to be addressed first. Also, the help they give may be geared to those with lower BMI. Every group is not for everyone. You don't even check out the hospital services but write them off. Our local hospitals have several different weight loss, healthy eating groups to offer.0
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And remember even a Tier 4 service will be completely free of charge. The NHS is great like that.
Don't mind me, just coveting your national health care system...
*fans self*
Same here
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Joselo, hope you're feeling better about all this now, and that your GP will sign you up to that Tier 3 group the link was posted for. It sounds exactly like the group you wanted to go to but with a higher level of professional support, which is never a bad thing. In my opinion it's a good thing when professionals know their limits: my NHS dentist is very quick to refer me to hospital if he thinks something looks too tricky for him, and I'd rather be safer there than have a botched job from a nervous dentist.
Maybe the organisers of the lower tier program need the feedback that their publicity should include the BMI limits, and a note saying 'similar groups are available for BMIs of 40+. Just contact your GP.'0 -
And remember even a Tier 4 service will be completely free of charge. The NHS is great like that.
Is a tier 4 only for surgical intervention? If you were at a teir 4 but decided that you didnt want surgery would there be other options?
No it's not. Level 4 services include surgery options for those where it is appropriate and required but also other specialist care.
In any case the link I sent him was for his NHS level 3 service to which his GP can refer him. It will include all the lifestyle change work he would love to undertake PLUS the medical expertise of bariatric specialists to care for all other aspects of his health that the staff in the community group he met wouldn't be able to deal with.0 -
Didnt sound like they told him to go to the next tier though just go to a hospital. They didnt offer him much help, but maybe the staff on that tier level are just ignorant and dont understand how their own tier system works.
The more specialist teams are usually based in clinical settings because there they have the facilities required to deal with some very large people, such as special scales and other clinical stuff like special exercise ECGs etc.
Without knowing exactly the verbatim exchange that went on between the OP and the member of staff, I would reserve my judgement about how helpful or not they were. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words. Perhaps the OP was immediately feeling so hurt and rejected that some bits got a bit misinterpreted. Who knows. But instead of playing the blame game lets just believe that the OP really is motivated to change and the staff really want to help people on that path, it's just a case of putting him in touch with the right service.
Yes the NHS is a complex beast, trying to be all things to all people without charging a penny... but I'd rather have it than be without it.0 -
It sounds like the OP is feeling better about this now thanks to Size10Again's wonderful help, and that's good.
I understand the frustration, even if the group aren't in the wrong. It's hard to reach out for help and rejection stings, whatever the reason.
I just wanted to add another possible explanation:
In this time of budget cuts and pressure, it is likely that every service will have to justify their existence. They will have a 'remit' - an area of responsibility in which to act. If this service was set up with the intention of helping people who fall somewhere in the middle weight-problem wise (ie, need more help than a leaflet on nutrition but probably don't need specialist medical care yet), they will be constantly under review and pressure to make sure they are doing exactly that. Somewhere in upper-management, someone will be looking at their budget and demanding proof that they are spending it as promised and getting results.
If their service is supposed to offer support to people with BMI 30-40, and they accept people outside this range, they will be asked why. It may be used as justification to cut their funding - 'three places are taken up by people outside this range, who have other services aimed at them, clearly there aren't enough people who need your service so we're cutting your budget and firing one of you'. This, on top of possible liability if someone got hurt because of advice they were given by someone who wasn't a specialist in the weight range - well, that's a big incentive to stick to the rules rigidly.
I'm not from a health background, but I worked in another UK public service that provided help to people in dire situations. We had to turn away people who almost-but-not-quite fit our criteria, because we were so stretched that taking them on meant everyone's support would be less, and because there was constantly an axe over our head. If we were shown to be not sticking to the rules, it would be used to justify shutting us down or reducing our funding, which means that no one would get the help. So as cold and hard as it may seem to turn you away, sometimes they have no choice - better to help some people and turn some away, than let everyone in and be closed down so no one gets help.0 -
I'm not from a health background, but I worked in another UK public service that provided help to people in dire situations. We had to turn away people who almost-but-not-quite fit our criteria, because we were so stretched that taking them on meant everyone's support would be less, and because there was constantly an axe over our head.
*nods*
Yes I think we all know that feeling. I have worked in substance misuse services before and my team were a very "high end" service for people with very serious and complex needs, and sometimes we were forced to turn people away because they weren't "bad enough". You feel terrible when people say things like "so what do I have to do to get help?? overdose??" and you try to explain the system and you try to refer them to a service more suitable to their needs but you feel terrible because you know it might have taken a huge amount of courage for someone to step though your door and ask for help and you're sending them somewhere else. I can see why some people feel passed from pillar to post and go home feeling deflated. :frown:0 -
Hello,
I am trying to lose weight but have found my efforts stalling a lot, like my progress as ground to a halt, and I have not been able to lose in some months. So, I wanted to get things back on track, and I heard about a local organisation that offers fun social group exercise stuff, and also lessons about healthy eating, cooking, lifestyle etc. I thought that this sounded a good thing to get involved in, and a nice friendly way to get help with other people.So I enquired about it.
I was told I could NOT be involved
My BMI is 61, far over their 'top' threshold of 40. Therefore they say they can't help and that I can only gethelp from the HOSPITAL!! I am very angry and upset about this!! I do not want to have to go to the hosptial to get all clinical help like I was an invalid, and also, I don't LIKE hospitals, who does??? It was not what I was after at all- as I say, I was seeking a nice fun informal way to get help- about working towards a better lifestyle, not about being treated as a patient. I think I would benefit much more from the class than hospital. Am I so much of a 'special needs' fatty that the group would be better off without me??
It annoys me that there is a group to help ppl about weight, but they only want to help people with a minor wieght problem. It just upsets me thinking WHY? Is it tht they think I am beyond 'normal' help and interventions? that I wouldbe bad for the group? That I would not keep up wth the class, physically or mentally? What is it?
Ugh, sorry for the rant, just so annoyed!!
With a BMI of 61, I suspect they're worried about you injuring yourself on their program and suing them. A BMI of 40 is not a minor weight problem, it's just less of a problem than yours. You do not need a group to get started, you just need to eat less and get a little exercise (walking is fine). You don't need a hospital, either. You need YOU, that's it.0 -
Hello,
I am trying to lose weight but have found my efforts stalling a lot, like my progress as ground to a halt, and I have not been able to lose in some months. So, I wanted to get things back on track, and I heard about a local organisation that offers fun social group exercise stuff, and also lessons about healthy eating, cooking, lifestyle etc. I thought that this sounded a good thing to get involved in, and a nice friendly way to get help with other people.So I enquired about it.
I was told I could NOT be involved My BMI is 61, far over their 'top' threshold of 40. Therefore they say they can't help and that I can only gethelp from the HOSPITAL!! I am very angry and upset about this!! I do not want to have to go to the hosptial to get all clinical help like I was an invalid, and also, I don't LIKE hospitals, who does??? It was not what I was after at all- as I say, I was seeking a nice fun informal way to get help- about working towards a better lifestyle, not about being treated as a patient. I think I would benefit much more from the class than hospital. Am I so much of a 'special needs' fatty that the group would be better off without me??
It annoys me that there is a group to help ppl about weight, but they only want to help people with a minor wieght problem. It just upsets me thinking WHY? Is it tht they think I am beyond 'normal' help and interventions? that I wouldbe bad for the group? That I would not keep up wth the class, physically or mentally? What is it?
Ugh, sorry for the rant, just so annoyed!!
You'd have to ask them, as we can only guess. but i will give you what popped in my head when i read what you wrote.
Perhaps they are worried about liability if someone is TOO overweight, maybe they are afraid of some health problem occurring and they would fear liability.
Or, could be that the activities would be possibly too strenuous, too demanding, you may need a special seat to fit you, and they do not want that much extra work.
it could be that they are teling you the truth - and the hospital (or other medical professionals like seeing a nutritionist) IS the answer for you, as they would be telling you out of genuine care for you. Maybe it is true, heck im going to see the nutritionist next month for me and I am not as overweight as you.. doctors can be a good thing.
Or something else i haven't thought of.. you'd really have to ask them. (I haven't read everyone else's posts yet).
If you really want to join, then lose some weight first so that you are within their required bmi, and use that as your incentive.0 -
Is it not fair because they helped you reach a BMI of 61 and now it's their responsibility to help you get it under control? It's not fair because you, personally, feel that it's not fair because now you want to do something and they won't "let" you? It's not fair because you don't like your other options, so who cares what their insurance costs are, their guidelines are, what they are set up to handle and who they have their plans designed to accommodate....nope, none of that matters because you want this and since you can't have this...it's just not fair? It's not fair because, somehow, you're exempt from other people's rules just because you think you should be?
Please, help me understand how this is not fair. Help me understand how you seem to be entitled to a program, one in which you apparently don't qualify, just because you think you should be.
No, i do not think it is their responsibility, it is mine. And the way in which I am taking responsibilty is, among other reasons, seeking helfpul advice and support. I think it is unfair because i beleive it would help me, and also that I would not harm the group (i am sure I could in fact be as valuable member as all the others), so there seems not very good reasosn to exclude me, is my view.
My comment aboutthe yacht means, I don't need sarcasm and nastiness, like I wasn't looking for that at all. Can't stop you doing it, but it brings nothing at all to the conversation, all I can do it ignore it, you wasted your own time even typing it.
Hi - i have another thought, ok so you are frustrated and getting rejected from a group is frustrating.
I think there is another group that might be ok, if one door closes, then find another. Since they do not want you for whatever their reasons, the door is shut, whatcha gonna do? so find something else.
try MFP! there are at least some supportive people here, though if you just want comments that agree with you 100% you will be disappointed in us too.
Hey i am less BMI than you,and I too could feel the unfairness of life like stuff I want to do, but since I myself got myself fat, I cant complain. Like, theatre seats, its unfair that they are so tiny i cannot fit in them,, and restaurant seats, too small, its unfair! and cafe seats, i think if i sat on them they might break, its so unfair.. i went to church and got a spare seat because the standard seats were too small, and the usher IN THE CHURCH did not accommodate me, that was so unfair, i mean really, that was a church, THEY SHOULD HAVE ACCOMMODATED MED.. it was so unfair.
NOT!
so my point is - you can curse the day or you can bless the night, its your choice, if you are too fat, then lose the weight, then no one will have to accommodate you.. you will just fit in.
dont be grumpy if someone challenges you with the truth, you may not like the delivery, but if it is true, then beleive it.. and not get mad when people tell you the truth, though it hurts, if it challenges you to do better then it is all good.0 -
I am sorry you went through that I can understand why you would be upset me personally I probably would of used some not very nice words that I wont say on here. Maybe ring up the hospital and explain your situation but ask if they know of any groups in the area that could help you or ring your local council they maybe able to help you as well or put a notice up on your local community board:flowerforyou: 0
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And remember even a Tier 4 service will be completely free of charge. The NHS is great like that.
Is a tier 4 only for surgical intervention? If you were at a teir 4 but decided that you didnt want surgery would there be other options?
Why the H! cant the states do something like this...no instead we got Obummercare :grumble:
Ldrosophila:
OP is in the UK, not USA. Their health system is not exactly the same as in the US
OP:
Congratulations for your progress so far.
I concur with many MFP posters here. Continue with the work you have been doing. Once you achieved the BMI of 40, you will meet the entrance rules for the group you are so keen on joining
Good luck in your journey0 -
My friend is 5'7" and weighs just over 500 lbs. I was walking around the building at work with her one day for exercise during lunch and a mutual friend, who just happens to be an MD, took me aside later and told me that I should not exercise with her. When asked why, he replied that I was not trained in CPR and could not handle getting her back up if she fell. While it chafed, he was right. I was being unfair to my friend by assuming that I could help if she needed it.
So you're not able to CALL for help if she needed it? Isn't that what we have emergency services for? Sounds like a piss-poor excuse to me. You're being unfair to your friend by abandoning her in her efforts to get healthy, not by "assuming you could help her if she needed it".
No, I think that a person needs to lose weight BEFORE they start an exercise program if they are that big. But first, they need to have a professional doctor's checkup to see IF and WHAT they can do. they might only be abel to do chair exercises or swimming. In a way, that doctor that made that statement in a way gave his professional opinion, though it was not a doctors visit, but that might give one a clue that the 500 pound person might not be able to exercise at this time. And 2ndly, that comment might have been directed ONLY to that friend, who the doctor knew that friend didn not know CPR, and so for THAT person ONLY, she was going to be put in a situation which she could not handle. it doesn't mean that doctor made a universal comment which applies to all, but to that one particular girl who was out walking with her 500 pound friend. Hope that makes sense how i explained it.0 -
Seek some emotional support form a professional, the reply you got from the group was not personal...you are above the BMI that they work with. No big deal...I am very over weight and there are rides and things I can't do because of my weight...I don't believe there is some kind of conspiracy for them to hate me..it motivates me to work harder to lose weight so I can do the things I want ti do and have the kind of life that I want.0
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Hello, If you go on Facebook and here on MFP there are several groups of people. They should have helped you! There are inspirational stories to keep you plugging along. . Also try Biggest Loser online club. They very were helpful to me, and they have groups or threads. Keep reaching out! Take Care have a good Day !!!
Vicki7280 -
Why upset that an organization has the gall to make its own rules?
Just find a group that is better suited to your specific needs.
Because it is a stupid rule!!!0
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