5k Jogger to Ultra Runner in 14 weeks

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  • ZenInTexas
    ZenInTexas Posts: 781 Member
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    You're all wrong.
    Uh, no.
    Now let me point on the inconsistencies and just plain misinformation in your post. Please accept this as constructive, because your comments here are going to lead someone down a path that will have them sidelined.

    The title of this thread is "5k Jogger to Ultra Runner in 14 weeks" and you stated in that post that this "plan" was the next step up from the Couch to 5K plan.
    If you've completed the C25K it's the next step up and will lead in 14 weeks to you being able to complete a trail marathon.

    Then, later in the thread, you said this (with bold added by me for emphasis):
    I've changed my profile picture to show myself and daughter completing the race in May the last time I followed a similar plan.

    I aren't starting at a position of being relatively unfit. I run 25 miles a week and bike about 120 as my commute is a 24 mile round trip.

    So, which is it? A plan for the novice runner just finishing the C25K program or for an experienced endurance athlete looking for a new challenge? Don't respond, I already know the answer.

    There is no running coach in the world that would advocate this ramp up of mileage for someone just reaching the point where they can run for 30 minutes without stopping. It doesn't matter if you are talking about racing or just completing. It's too much mileage too soon. Period.

    And now for this piece of "advice":
    My advice is don't road run if you can avoid it, it's too high impact and is hard on your joints. Consultants rooms are full of ex road runners having knee and hip replacement surgery. Trail running gives you more of an all over workout as you need to keep your balance and the ground is softer on your body.

    This is just utter hogwash (that's American for bullsh1t). Running injuries occur primarily for two reasons.

    1. Running too fast too soon.
    2. Running too far too soon.

    Additionally, these running injuries are not structural in nature, which you imply (falsely) in the statement above. These running injuries are soft tissue injuries that can be fixed with rest, strengthening exercises and working on proper running form. There are been several studies that show that running actually improves overall joint health. Yes, there is a benefit to running on soft surfaces, but it's not to prevent you from needing to have a joint replaced. There is less impact on the soft tissues which will allow you to run more with less recovery time. It's not significant though, maybe a few more miles a week because of the softer surfaces.

    So, to be clear here, this "plan" that you are advocating is not one for the beginning runner, and probably not one for the intermediate runner as it flies in the face of conventional training methods which have been developed over decades by qualified running coaches, many with PhDs in disciplines that qualify them as experts in the field, that are designed to maximize performance while maintaining the health and well-being of those that follow these programs.

    Gold.

    +1
  • Lyerin
    Lyerin Posts: 818 Member
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    Yeah, I'm almost done with the C210K program (after today's run, I'll have just week 14 to go next week). There is no way I'm ready for something like that even though I've completed the C25K PLUS all the way to 10K. I had a friend ask me to do a half in November, and I declined because I wouldn't be able to be ready by then (safely and injury free). I am looking for a 10K in October and then may do a couple more 5Ks before the year is over, but nothing more than 10K for sure.

    Definitely not the plan for the average person who has recently completed the C25K program.
  • St_Paul
    St_Paul Posts: 32 Member
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    This not a wise idea at all. It is a recipe for injury. There is absolutely no reason to jump from 5K to ultra in that short of a period of time. There are plenty of intermediate goals that are worthwhile. I just don't get why so many people feel like you have to run a marathon or longer to be considered a runner. Why not try for a 25 minute 5K? That still requires you to run nearly the same mileage that you would to train for a Half Marathon.

    Running endurance is not built up over a period of weeks and months. It takes YEARS to build a proper aerobic base AND to condition the muscles, tendons and ligaments to be able to handle the rigors of marathon training. You can't rush it. There are no shortcuts. You just have to run and gradually build your mileage.

    +1
    I have 3 half marathons and one full under my belt as well a some longer gravel grinders and road races on the bike. Doing all this and eating less than 2k calories a day too? Training for any endurance event and trying to roll in calorie limitations seems precarious. Just my experience speaking here. Anyway I wish you good luck - I hope you do well and are healthy.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    Why not try for a 25 minute 5K? That still requires you to run nearly the same mileage that you would to train for a Half Marathon.

    I didn't catch this the first time. Really? How many weeks? I'm probably right at 30 minutes now.
  • davert123
    davert123 Posts: 1,568 Member
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    Sorry but to me this sounds nuts - for example going from 9 to 15 miles in a week would completely kill me and everyone else i know. It sounds a sure way of injuring people if they do force themselves around and I really would recommend people don't try it. Sorry to rain on your bomb fire.
  • davert123
    davert123 Posts: 1,568 Member
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    Read Carson's post.

    A trail marathon can in no way, shape or form be described as "the next step up" from C25K.

    Yes, I understand some have done this successfully. Your odds of going down in flames, however, are much greater than your odds of success.

    LOL C25K to trail marathon?


    I've ran multiple sub 21 5ks... 2 soon to be 3 marathons, and I still shutter at the thought of a trail marathon.

    I did a trail 25k once, harder than a marathon.

    I'd actually enjoy seeing someone go from C25K to trail marathon. :)

    You sadist
  • jmc0806
    jmc0806 Posts: 1,444 Member
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    my legs hurt just reading this
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    Why not try for a 25 minute 5K? That still requires you to run nearly the same mileage that you would to train for a Half Marathon.

    I didn't catch this the first time. Really? How many weeks? I'm probably right at 30 minutes now.

    Probably 6 months. Depends on what you current mileage is and how well your body can tolerate an increase in mileage. I saw dramatic improvements when I started to consistently hit 40 MPW.
  • ThickMcRunFast
    ThickMcRunFast Posts: 22,511 Member
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    Oh, our bad. By saying 'just completed C25K" you meant "have experience distance running and a 25 mile/week base". Clearly the same thing :huh:

    Still, for a 14 week plan, that's pretty insane. You could find many training plans that are less...uh...'crazy pants'.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    Why not try for a 25 minute 5K? That still requires you to run nearly the same mileage that you would to train for a Half Marathon.

    I didn't catch this the first time. Really? How many weeks? I'm probably right at 30 minutes now.

    Probably 6 months. Depends on what you current mileage is and how well your body can tolerate an increase in mileage. I saw dramatic improvements when I started to consistently hit 40 MPW.


    My 1/2 marathon training has me at maybe 17 miles now. 6 months would be pretty do-able for me. I do a fun run on Thanksgiving after the 1/2 at the end of October, but my next real planned race is a 6k in February.
  • chellebublz
    chellebublz Posts: 568 Member
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    Blimey, calm down, you all get a bit personal don't you!!

    It's not easy but it's achievable

    So are you saying that ALL of the reading material in running books by Olympic marathon runners, and articles on Runner's World etc are wrong when they tell you to only up your weekly mileage by 10%? Because I'm pretty sure that 9 miles to 15 miles is WAYYYY more than 10%......

    My point and many others on here as well, is that your original post claims that this is the next step up from c25k. And this is not. The next step is a faster 5k, or a 10k. You have to build your mileage gradually. Plus take into account that I'm sure the majority of c25k'ers are overweight 200+
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    Blimey, calm down, you all get a bit personal don't you!!

    It's not easy but it's achievable

    So are you saying that ALL of the reading material in running books by Olympic marathon runners, and articles on Runner's World etc are wrong when they tell you to only up your weekly mileage by 10%? Because I'm pretty sure that 9 miles to 15 miles is WAYYYY more than 10%......

    My point and many others on here as well, is that your original post claims that this is the next step up from c25k. And this is not. The next step is a faster 5k, or a 10k. You have to build your mileage gradually. Plus take into account that I'm sure the majority of c25k'ers are overweight 200+

    Nah. We misread his original post. What he meant is, if you have finished C25k, have a weekly base of 25+ miles running and a whole lot more biking, then you have a 1 in 100 chance of getting through this without spending a lot of time sidelined due to injury.
  • joebeana
    joebeana Posts: 6 Member
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    I think he said his wife and daughter are doing it too. Maybe they can save on co-pays if all 3 of them are in the hospital/Dr.'s office at the same time. The family that's injured together, stays together.
  • humberstunner
    humberstunner Posts: 38
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    Lol .... sure is a lot of 'butthurt' on this site!! (I like that Colonial expression), a few of you may be need to take a deep breath and count very slowly to 100!

    Actually, one of the previous postings is correct. This is aimed at those who have completed the C25K and are now doing regular jogging.

    Week one over, we just run 9.5 miles round Flamborough Head in Yorkshire (Google it, it's beautiful), pretty tough course featuring 1790 feet of ascent but all of this being steep steps up. The whole course was off road with a 20mph wind and raining(so much for an Indian Summer!) We all feel pretty good but definitely think there's more miles in us yet.

    Cheers and keep the encouragement coming!
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    The average runner finishing C25k is running between 6 and 10 miles a week.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    The average runner finishing C25k is running between 6 and 10 miles a week.

    A weeks worth of mileage in a day for week one? Hey, that's no big deal.

    :huh: :noway:

    Unreal. This dude is dangerous.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    Just trying to define terms to see if we can all get on the same page...

    I think part of the disconnect might be that most of us perceive the "C25k graduate" as an out-of-shape newbie who usually isn't running a 10 minute mile and is probably still running the three days a week mandated in the program (SmartCoach didn't have me add another day until I got over 10 miles a week.)

    The OP assumes that the "C25k graduate" is somebody who is putting in 20+ miles a week, is very fit and has considerable experience with reacting to their body's physical cues.

    Not that the proposed schedule makes sense for anybody, but it's less dangerous when proposed to people who have the experience to see the inherent problems.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    I really hope this guy isn't serious. I'd feel better if he were a troll.

    This plan start out the first week with 19 miles and more than doubles that in week 5 with 41 miles. Even using the 10% increase per week rule (which I believe is still too aggressive, you need to have cut-back weeks), it would take 8 weeks to get to that 41 miles.

    Then there is the long run. It jumps from 9 to 15. This just should not happen unless you have run at least 12 miles before and relatively recently. Also, the long run keeps jumping to the point where it is nearly 1/2 of total weekly mileage. It really shouldn't ever exceed 1/3 of weekly mileage (1/4 is even better).

    And another thing, this "plan" has the runner completing the marathon distance 3 times in a 6 week span. Irresponsible! Unless you are a seasoned veteran, a "Marathon Maniac", this type of volume in this short of a time period will result in injury. You can almost guarantee it. For most first time marathon runners, I suggest 2 full weeks of no running after the marathon and then slowly easing back into it.

    I don't care which way the OP defines the "C25K Graduate". This plan is only appropriate for someone that has run a marathon before, has a couple years of good base mileage, and who has committed to a significant amount of cross training. This really is a FIRST type of program with the (relatively) low overall weekly mileage which will really only work well for the seasoned runner. It tops out at 50 miles, and only then because there is a marathon to run that week (the second one in the plan).
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    I don't care which way the OP defines the "C25K Graduate". This plan is only appropriate for someone that has run a marathon before, has a couple years of good base mileage, and who has committed to a significant amount of cross training. This really is a FIRST type of program with the (relatively) low overall weekly mileage which will really only work well for the seasoned runner. It tops out at 50 miles, and only then because there is a marathon to run that week (the second one in the plan).

    And if anybody need explanation on FIRST, here's a link: http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Pages/default.aspx

    Yeah, I'm doing the "Busy Girl's Half Marathon Plan" and beginning to realize that it was a mistake. I think that, at my level, I should be putting in way more miles at this point. I don't really have the time to to that, so I should have looked at more challenging 10ks rather than going for a half. However, I'm not getting injured so that's a plus.
  • humberstunner
    humberstunner Posts: 38
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    Week 2 complete!

    We feel fantastic, all three of us are gagging to get out into the hills and hitting the proper miles but keeping it on the flat for now and always sticking to the plan.

    I don't know what time we did todays 9.23 miles in and I don't care, I aren't Mo Farah and aren't going to win any races. For us, as always, it's about completing not competing!

    It was so beautiful tonight running along Humberston Beach in Lincolnshire (google it) at sunset with my two favourite girls!

    So proud of Beth who's doing the Mablethorpe 1/2 marathon in 2 weeks and my wife Deb who just loves it.

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