All calories are not the same
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Replies
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Math isn't your best subject then. A calorie is a measured value of energy. Source doesn't matter if the both have the same calorie count.This is an argument I have quite often with people.
All calories are not the same. 250 calories from a slice of pizza is not the same as 250 calories from a meal consisting of grilled chicken breast, a side of quinoa and fresh raw spinach.
If you agree or disagree, please post in the in the comment section below
You're trying to debate macronutrient content and nutritional content.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer
source?
here's a few, please follow the links for more data
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/780553
from those studies:
hese results indicate that the decreased mortality in vegetarians compared with the general population is in large part due to a healthy lifestyle, that is, being non-smokers, being leaner and more physically active, and so on.
of all things to cherry pick, you grabbed that?0 -
Nutrition books are written as propaganda by shills for Big Nutrition, who perpetuates lies that we need them to know what to eat, because otherwise nobody would have any use for them and they'd have to go get real jobs. It's a conspiracy to keep you misinformed so they can take your money.
You're missing how arbitrary your concept actually is.
this is a concept learned in Nutrition 101, chapter 10 -
high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer
source?
here's a few, please follow the links for more data
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/780553
from those studies:
hese results indicate that the decreased mortality in vegetarians compared with the general population is in large part due to a healthy lifestyle, that is, being non-smokers, being leaner and more physically active, and so on.
of all things to cherry pick, you grabbed that?
People who don't smoke, eat better, and are more active are less likely to die of cancer or heart disease. Sounds like legit cherry picking to me.0 -
That is the conclusion, I hardly call that cherry picking. :huh:
high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer
source?
here's a few, please follow the links for more data
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/780553
from those studies:
hese results indicate that the decreased mortality in vegetarians compared with the general population is in large part due to a healthy lifestyle, that is, being non-smokers, being leaner and more physically active, and so on.
of all things to cherry pick, you grabbed that?0 -
high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer
source?
here's a few, please follow the links for more data
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/780553
from those studies:
hese results indicate that the decreased mortality in vegetarians compared with the general population is in large part due to a healthy lifestyle, that is, being non-smokers, being leaner and more physically active, and so on.
of all things to cherry pick, you grabbed that?
People who don't smoke, eat better, and are more active are less likely to die of cancer or heart disease. Sounds like legit cherry picking to me.
maybe if you don't read the rest of the study, specifically where they address the comparisons of non vegetarians who eat processed meat to those who don't!0 -
actually no, you're thinking that I define whole food for us but I don't.
nutritionists and dietiticians do that
if you consider this an argument rather than a discussion, then I'll no longer address you lol
But, critical thinking requires that at times you look at arbitrary definitions and see that they are, in fact, arbitrary.
Here is a for instance, taking your own examples of chicken and wheat:
To process wheat:
Raise wheat, or find wild source
Take seeds, you can shake them free of the stalks, wheat does grow wild.
Use grinding stones (these were highly prized and passed down in families) to crush seeds and make powder/flour
Mix with water and perhaps add in a fat (animal fat was used prior to modern oils)
Make into flat pancake shape, cook on a flat heated stone on a fire if you don't have access to modern skillets.
Eat and enjoy.
To process chicken:
Raise chicken
Kill chicken by either ringing its neck or cutting its artery
Boil chicken for a few minutes to loosen feathers from skin, you can remove feathers without boiling first, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Pluck feathers, this is arduous at times.
Cut open cavity at base and remove internal organs, do it carefully.
Prepare chicken by boiling, baking, frying.
Eat and enjoy.
I have processed chickens, I have also ground wheat. I fail to see how it's more processed.
Here is another example, this one pertains to my local area and there is evidence that it was done more than 10,000 years ago here:
Burn the forest regularly to provide ideal growing environment.
Propagate and tend a field of Camas flowers, they do not grow where people don't place them, their seeds aren't carried by any animals.
Once a year, gather tribal members, and using a sharpened stick with a handle securely attached, dig up the Camas bulbs.
They will cause great stomach upset if eaten in this state.
Dig a VERY large pit and coat with stones, let a fire burn in it for days, until stones are very hot.
Place layer upon layer of bulbs in the pit and cover with more stones.
Let cook for a couple of days.
Remove bulbs, they can be eaten now if desired.
To prepare for storage dry out bulbs
They can be ground into powder, flattened stones were prized for this purpose and coveted.
Once ground into powder, use your family/clan's favorite recipe and make into cakes.
Take cakes to neighboring communities and trade for treasure: like valuable beads, obsidian for knives, dried salmon (though the tribes of my area were salmon fishers as well as camas growers).
Oh, wait, ^^^^^^ looks like it's pretty processed. Guess we better go tell the local Kalapuya tribes that their ancestors from 10,000 years ago were doing it wrong. Woopsies.0 -
Nutrition books are written as propaganda by shills for Big Nutrition, who perpetuates lies that we need them to know what to eat, because otherwise nobody would have any use for them and they'd have to go get real jobs. It's a conspiracy to keep you misinformed so they can take your money.
0 -
high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer
source?
here's a few, please follow the links for more data
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/780553
from those studies:
hese results indicate that the decreased mortality in vegetarians compared with the general population is in large part due to a healthy lifestyle, that is, being non-smokers, being leaner and more physically active, and so on.
of all things to cherry pick, you grabbed that?
People who don't smoke, eat better, and are more active are less likely to die of cancer or heart disease. Sounds like legit cherry picking to me.
maybe if you don't read the rest of the study, specifically where they address the comparisons of non vegetarians who eat processed meat to those who don't!
They concluded that excess meat consumption accounted for a 3% increase in mortality. The rest was due to overall lifestyle. Hardly the condemnation of meat you seem to think it is.0 -
actually no, you're thinking that I define whole food for us but I don't.
nutritionists and dietiticians do that
if you consider this an argument rather than a discussion, then I'll no longer address you lol
But, critical thinking requires that at times you look at arbitrary definitions and see that they are, in fact, arbitrary.
Here is a for instance, taking your own examples of chicken and wheat:
To process wheat:
Raise wheat, or find wild source
Take seeds, you can shake them free of the stalks, wheat does grow wild.
Use grinding stones (these were highly prized and passed down in families) to crush seeds and make powder/flour
Mix with water and perhaps add in a fat (animal fat was used prior to modern oils)
Make into flat pancake shape, cook on a flat heated stone on a fire if you don't have access to modern skillets.
Eat and enjoy.
To process chicken:
Raise chicken
Kill chicken by either ringing its neck or cutting its artery
Boil chicken for a few minutes to loosen feathers from skin, you can remove feathers without boiling first, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Pluck feathers, this is arduous at times.
Cut open cavity at base and remove internal organs, do it carefully.
Prepare chicken by boiling, baking, frying.
Eat and enjoy.
I have processed chickens, I have also ground wheat. I fail to see how it's more processed.
Here is another example, this one pertains to my local area and there is evidence that it was done more than 10,000 years ago here:
Burn the forest regularly to provide ideal growing environment.
Propagate and tend a field of Camas flowers, they do not grow where people don't place them, their seeds aren't carried by any animals.
Once a year, gather tribal members, and using a sharpened stick with a handle securely attached, dig up the Camas bulbs.
They will cause great stomach upset if eaten in this state.
Dig a VERY large pit and coat with stones, let a fire burn in it for days, until stones are very hot.
Place layer upon layer of bulbs in the pit and cover with more stones.
Let cook for a couple of days.
Remove bulbs, they can be eaten now if desired.
To prepare for storage dry out bulbs
They can be ground into powder, flattened stones were prized for this purpose and coveted.
Once ground into powder, use your family/clan's favorite recipe and make into cakes.
Take cakes to neighboring communities and trade for treasure: like valuable beads, obsidian for knives, dried salmon (though the tribes of my area were salmon fishers as well as camas growers).
Oh, wait, ^^^^^^ looks like it's pretty processed. Guess we better go tell the local Kalapuya tribes that their ancestors from 10,000 years ago were doing it wrong. Woopsies.
like I've said many times, plant foods are only considered whole if you can pick them and eat them. I didn't make this up myself, its the definition.0 -
high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer
source?
here's a few, please follow the links for more data
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/780553
from those studies:
hese results indicate that the decreased mortality in vegetarians compared with the general population is in large part due to a healthy lifestyle, that is, being non-smokers, being leaner and more physically active, and so on.
of all things to cherry pick, you grabbed that?
People who don't smoke, eat better, and are more active are less likely to die of cancer or heart disease. Sounds like legit cherry picking to me.
maybe if you don't read the rest of the study, specifically where they address the comparisons of non vegetarians who eat processed meat to those who don't!
They concluded that excess meat consumption accounted for a 3% increase in mortality. The rest was due to overall lifestyle. Hardly the condemnation of meat you seem to think it is.
it didn't condemn meat at all
it linked consuming a lot of processed meat to cancer0 -
So, is a pineapple a whole food? Because you have to cut the skin off before it can be eaten.actually no, you're thinking that I define whole food for us but I don't.
nutritionists and dietiticians do that
if you consider this an argument rather than a discussion, then I'll no longer address you lol
But, critical thinking requires that at times you look at arbitrary definitions and see that they are, in fact, arbitrary.
Here is a for instance, taking your own examples of chicken and wheat:
To process wheat:
Raise wheat, or find wild source
Take seeds, you can shake them free of the stalks, wheat does grow wild.
Use grinding stones (these were highly prized and passed down in families) to crush seeds and make powder/flour
Mix with water and perhaps add in a fat (animal fat was used prior to modern oils)
Make into flat pancake shape, cook on a flat heated stone on a fire if you don't have access to modern skillets.
Eat and enjoy.
To process chicken:
Raise chicken
Kill chicken by either ringing its neck or cutting its artery
Boil chicken for a few minutes to loosen feathers from skin, you can remove feathers without boiling first, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Pluck feathers, this is arduous at times.
Cut open cavity at base and remove internal organs, do it carefully.
Prepare chicken by boiling, baking, frying.
Eat and enjoy.
I have processed chickens, I have also ground wheat. I fail to see how it's more processed.
Here is another example, this one pertains to my local area and there is evidence that it was done more than 10,000 years ago here:
Burn the forest regularly to provide ideal growing environment.
Propagate and tend a field of Camas flowers, they do not grow where people don't place them, their seeds aren't carried by any animals.
Once a year, gather tribal members, and using a sharpened stick with a handle securely attached, dig up the Camas bulbs.
They will cause great stomach upset if eaten in this state.
Dig a VERY large pit and coat with stones, let a fire burn in it for days, until stones are very hot.
Place layer upon layer of bulbs in the pit and cover with more stones.
Let cook for a couple of days.
Remove bulbs, they can be eaten now if desired.
To prepare for storage dry out bulbs
They can be ground into powder, flattened stones were prized for this purpose and coveted.
Once ground into powder, use your family/clan's favorite recipe and make into cakes.
Take cakes to neighboring communities and trade for treasure: like valuable beads, obsidian for knives, dried salmon (though the tribes of my area were salmon fishers as well as camas growers).
Oh, wait, ^^^^^^ looks like it's pretty processed. Guess we better go tell the local Kalapuya tribes that their ancestors from 10,000 years ago were doing it wrong. Woopsies.
like I've said many times, plant foods are only considered whole if you can pick them and eat them. I didn't make this up myself, its the definition.0 -
actually no, you're thinking that I define whole food for us but I don't.
nutritionists and dietiticians do that
if you consider this an argument rather than a discussion, then I'll no longer address you lol
But, critical thinking requires that at times you look at arbitrary definitions and see that they are, in fact, arbitrary.
Here is a for instance, taking your own examples of chicken and wheat:
To process wheat:
Raise wheat, or find wild source
Take seeds, you can shake them free of the stalks, wheat does grow wild.
Use grinding stones (these were highly prized and passed down in families) to crush seeds and make powder/flour
Mix with water and perhaps add in a fat (animal fat was used prior to modern oils)
Make into flat pancake shape, cook on a flat heated stone on a fire if you don't have access to modern skillets.
Eat and enjoy.
To process chicken:
Raise chicken
Kill chicken by either ringing its neck or cutting its artery
Boil chicken for a few minutes to loosen feathers from skin, you can remove feathers without boiling first, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Pluck feathers, this is arduous at times.
Cut open cavity at base and remove internal organs, do it carefully.
Prepare chicken by boiling, baking, frying.
Eat and enjoy.
I have processed chickens, I have also ground wheat. I fail to see how it's more processed.
Here is another example, this one pertains to my local area and there is evidence that it was done more than 10,000 years ago here:
Burn the forest regularly to provide ideal growing environment.
Propagate and tend a field of Camas flowers, they do not grow where people don't place them, their seeds aren't carried by any animals.
Once a year, gather tribal members, and using a sharpened stick with a handle securely attached, dig up the Camas bulbs.
They will cause great stomach upset if eaten in this state.
Dig a VERY large pit and coat with stones, let a fire burn in it for days, until stones are very hot.
Place layer upon layer of bulbs in the pit and cover with more stones.
Let cook for a couple of days.
Remove bulbs, they can be eaten now if desired.
To prepare for storage dry out bulbs
They can be ground into powder, flattened stones were prized for this purpose and coveted.
Once ground into powder, use your family/clan's favorite recipe and make into cakes.
Take cakes to neighboring communities and trade for treasure: like valuable beads, obsidian for knives, dried salmon (though the tribes of my area were salmon fishers as well as camas growers).
Oh, wait, ^^^^^^ looks like it's pretty processed. Guess we better go tell the local Kalapuya tribes that their ancestors from 10,000 years ago were doing it wrong. Woopsies.
like I've said many times, plant foods are only considered whole if you can pick them and eat them. I didn't make this up myself, its the definition.
So, if one accepts this definition of "whole foods" (which is fine as this was not meant to be a semantic argument), how exactly does choosing whole over processed food affect the nutritional qualities of food?
Put another way, this or that food is "whole" or "processed," but so what?0 -
high intake of processed meat is linked to cancer
source?
here's a few, please follow the links for more data
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/780553
from those studies:
hese results indicate that the decreased mortality in vegetarians compared with the general population is in large part due to a healthy lifestyle, that is, being non-smokers, being leaner and more physically active, and so on.
of all things to cherry pick, you grabbed that?
People who don't smoke, eat better, and are more active are less likely to die of cancer or heart disease. Sounds like legit cherry picking to me.
maybe if you don't read the rest of the study, specifically where they address the comparisons of non vegetarians who eat processed meat to those who don't!
They concluded that excess meat consumption accounted for a 3% increase in mortality. The rest was due to overall lifestyle. Hardly the condemnation of meat you seem to think it is.
it didn't condemn meat at all
it linked consuming a lot of processed meat to cancer
cancer or "mortality" from all causes?0 -
So, if one accepts this definition of "whole foods" (which is fine as this was not meant to be a semantic argument), how exactly does choosing whole over processed food affect the nutritional qualities of food?
Put another way, this or that food is "whole" or "processed," but so what?
lets get to it then. what do you think?0 -
Probably been said....I agree, some are tastier than others.
Oh, and also probably has been mentioned - macros will be pretty different. In fact, if my fats are low that day, pizza is probably a better choice than the chicken (assuming that I ate meat).0 -
cancer or "mortality" from all causes?
why would you ask me rather than read the link that was posted?
anywho, here is what the study that you can't read says:
"The results of our analysis support a moderate positive association between processed meat consumption and mortality, in particular due to cardiovascular diseases, but also to cancer."0 -
So, if one accepts this definition of "whole foods" (which is fine as this was not meant to be a semantic argument), how exactly does choosing whole over processed food affect the nutritional qualities of food?
Put another way, this or that food is "whole" or "processed," but so what?
lets get to it then. what do you think?
It seems arbitrary to me.
We can define these words any way we like but the definitions won't affect what goes on in our bodies, so if we choose definitions based on concepts that are "rules of thumb" (for want of a better phrase), then those words aren't very helpful to a discussion on nutrition.0 -
cancer or "mortality" from all causes?
why would you ask me rather than read the link that was posted?
anywho, here is what the study that you can't read says:
"The results of our analysis support a moderate positive association between processed meat consumption and mortality, in particular due to cardiovascular diseases, but also to cancer."
I'm honestly starting to question whether you read it given the discussion.0 -
Yes it is...it just might not be as healthy as the other calorie that you are considering...0
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