All calories are not the same

NoAdditives

have you ever eaten raw, unground wheat right after you pick it?

Have you ever eaten raw, unplucked chicken right after you killed it?

no but you really don't need advanced tools that were developed during the agricultural revolution in order to do that, now do you?

You know that "agricultural revolution" was the Neolithic era, right? While people were far more advanced at that point than most people understand, their tools were not all that advanced.

BeachIron

have you ever eaten raw, unground wheat right after you pick it?

Have you ever eaten raw, unplucked chicken right after you killed it?

no but you really don't need advanced tools that were developed during the agricultural revolution in order to do that, now do you?

Is there a point? Is there are significance to the agricultural revolution in terms of health . . . I mean other than in terms of starvation and creation of society?

aliciap412

you need two stones to mill wheat. That and hands.

by that definition, its man made then?

PikaKnight

have you ever eaten raw, unground wheat right after you pick it?

Have you ever eaten raw, unplucked chicken right after you killed it?

no but you really don't need advanced tools that were developed during the agricultural revolution in order to do that, now do you?

I would prefer to use tools that allow for the testing of chickens and such to ensure I'm not cooking tainted food...but that's just me.

And what's wrong with using tools? Are you going to shame the gorillas and crows for using "tools" to get their food?

ThickMcRunFast

you need two stones to mill wheat. That and hands.

by that definition, its man made then?

If a banana is man-made because you have to pick it and peel it, sure.

NoAdditives

you need two stones to mill wheat. That and hands.

by that definition, its man made then?

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

aliciap412

I'm simply attempting to brainstorm what the OP meant by man made when comparing pizza and chicken. I thought he may mean the creation of wheat. feel free to disagree and throw out other possibilities.

aliciap412

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

NoAdditives

I'm simply attempting to brainstorm what the OP meant by man made when comparing pizza and chicken. I thought he may mean the creation of wheat. feel free to disagree and throw out other possibilities.

I think it's a moot point since the OP isn't participating in the discussion.

BeachIron

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

You're missing how arbitrary your concept actually is.

aliciap412

I think it's a moot point since the OP isn't participating in the discussion.

perhaps you are correct

better talk about cheesecake then

NoAdditives

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

But processing (or cooking, if you will) meat or vegetables doesn't change that classification?

aliciap412

You're missing how arbitrary your concept actually is.

this is a concept learned in Nutrition 101, chapter 1

BeachIron

You're missing how arbitrary your concept actually is.

this is a concept learned in Nutrition 101, chapter 1

Okay then. You clearly know what you're doing. Please do teach us more . . .

aliciap412

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

But processing (or cooking, if you will) meat or vegetables doesn't change that classification?

whole food
noun
1.
food that has been processed or refined as little as possible and is free from additives or other artificial substances.

aliciap412

You're missing how arbitrary your concept actually is.

this is a concept learned in Nutrition 101, chapter 1

Okay then. You clearly know what you're doing. Please do teach us more . . .

I don't know everything, not even close. I'm here to learn from everyone, think critically, etc.

feel free to disagree with me and make other suggestions here.

BeachIron

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

But processing (or cooking, if you will) meat or vegetables doesn't change that classification?

whole food
noun
1.
food that has been processed or refined as little as possible and is free from additives or other artificial substances.

"[A]s little as possible" for what exactly?

For human consumption?

You can eat raw chicken so by your own definition, you are incorrect.

NoAdditives

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

But processing (or cooking, if you will) meat or vegetables doesn't change that classification?

whole food
noun
1.
food that has been processed or refined as little as possible and is free from additives or other artificial substances.

I fail to see how drying and grinding wheat is a lot of processing or refining.

LiftAllThePizzas

most pizza unless homemade is not just toamtoes and cheese lol. If you think so you are deluded. Pizza chains use hfcs and all kinds of chemicals to keep the ingredients stable. Pizza hut dough is premade and spread with all kinds of butter oil, especially the pan pizza, ever see the grease film (yellow) on your hands? Do not try to say frankenfood is just innocent tomatoes and hey what's wrong with that? LOL

Please, enough with the 'frankenfood' loaded language fallacy. Sorry you have an irrational fear of some foods and feel the need to demonize them to make it seem less ridiculous.

NoAdditives

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

But processing (or cooking, if you will) meat or vegetables doesn't change that classification?

whole food
noun
1.
food that has been processed or refined as little as possible and is free from additives or other artificial substances.

"[A]s little as possible" for what exactly?

For human consumption?

You can eat raw chicken so by your own definition, you are incorrect.

Meat definitely requires more processing than wheat in order to be safely edible.

BeachIron

You're missing how arbitrary your concept actually is.

this is a concept learned in Nutrition 101, chapter 1

Okay then. You clearly know what you're doing. Please do teach us more . . .

I don't know everything, not even close. I'm here to learn from everyone, think critically, etc.

feel free to disagree with me and make other suggestions here.

Then perhaps what you learned in "Nutrition 101, chapter 1' was incorrect? But again, what is the significance of this concept? Does it have any relevance to human health?

aliciap412

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

But processing (or cooking, if you will) meat or vegetables doesn't change that classification?

whole food
noun
1.
food that has been processed or refined as little as possible and is free from additives or other artificial substances.

"[A]s little as possible" for what exactly?

For human consumption?

You can eat raw chicken so by your own definition, you are incorrect.

you're absolutely right. my statement of "meat needs to be cooked" was false.

but meat is still considered a whole food, I'm not wrong about that

aliciap412

Then perhaps what you learned in "Nutrition 101, chapter 1' was incorrect? But again, what is the significance of this concept? Does it have any relevance to human health?

does it?

thats why I brought it up

NoAdditives

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

But processing (or cooking, if you will) meat or vegetables doesn't change that classification?

whole food
noun
1.
food that has been processed or refined as little as possible and is free from additives or other artificial substances.

"[A]s little as possible" for what exactly?

For human consumption?

You can eat raw chicken so by your own definition, you are incorrect.

you're absolutely right. my statement of "meat needs to be cooked" was false.

but meat is still considered a whole food, I'm not wrong about that

Then do you see why it's stupid that wheat isn't considered a whole food?

ShadeBlossom

whole food
noun
1.
food that has been processed or refined as little as possible and is free from additives or other artificial substances.

In this case, I'm confused by your wheat/flour example. Are you suggesting that there's a better way to ingest wheat with LESS processing than it takes to make flour? And I'm talking about wheat flour, simply hulled and ground. Not bleaching, enriching, or anything else. Just flour.

Or are you suggesting that wheat isn't meant to be eaten at all?

BeachIron

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

But processing (or cooking, if you will) meat or vegetables doesn't change that classification?

whole food
noun
1.
food that has been processed or refined as little as possible and is free from additives or other artificial substances.

"[A]s little as possible" for what exactly?

For human consumption?

You can eat raw chicken so by your own definition, you are incorrect.

Meat definitely requires more processing than wheat in order to be safely edible.

I'm not sure that I agree with that statement. Wheat doesn't take much after harvest, but meat may require just butchering if the animal was raised correctly. Humm . . . does this "processing" or "whole" concept include human intervention in the process of raising animals and planting crops?

aliciap412

Or are you suggesting that wheat isn't meant to be eaten at all?

I'm not, although there are many medical doctors making this suggestion, I'm not going there.

I was suggesting that its not necessarily a whole food since its a plant that you can't pick and eat.

in other words, bread is a processed food.

please feel free to disagree, respectfully, and I'll continue the discussion. I don't respond to insults, only fellow critical thinkers.

TR0berts

This doesn't surprise me, majority of you use chemical substances such as aspartame ad sucralose as an alternative to sugar, because someone, somewhere told you it's completely healthy and natural.

Anyways, I dare any of you to consume 1200 calories of pizza a day for a month and monitor your results.
Now the next month eat 1200 calories of whole natural foods, preferably raw, organic fruits and vegetables. including raw nuts. and no, peanuts are not nuts. Now if you yield the same results with both diets I would be amazed, and it's simply would not happen. The fact is, at the end of the day, your body stores away fat in a means of protecting you. It's not going to store away the vegetables because it doesn't contain any fat, your body wants to store fat in case you suddenly don't have food anymore.
Pizza is a completely man made food, your body wasn't even designed to even digest man made foods . The body thrives on natural foods.

"We conclude that a calorie is a calorie. From a purely thermodynamic point of view, this is clear because the human body or, indeed, any living organism cannot create or destroy energy but can only convert energy from one form to another. In comparing energy balance between dietary treatments, however, it must be remembered that the units of dietary energy are metabolizable energy and not gross energy. This is perhaps unfortunate because metabolizable energy is much more difficult to determine than is gross energy, because the Atwater factors used in calculating metabolizable energy are not exact. As such, our food tables are not perfect, and small errors are associated with their use.

In addition, we concede that the substitution of one macronutrient for another has been shown in some studies to have a statistically significant effect on the expenditure half of the energy balance equation. This has been observed most often for high-protein diets. Evidence indicates, however, that the difference in energy expenditure is small and can potentially account for less than one-third of the differences in weight loss that have been reported between high-protein or low-carbohydrate diets and high-carbohydrate or low-fat diets. As such, a calorie is a calorie. Further research is needed to identify the mechanisms that result in greater weight loss with one diet than with another. "

From: The American Journal of Nutrition

Study: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.full

But I guess your brilliant arguement of "Because I said so!" is a good enough counterargument.

BeachIron

And so is a cooked chicken breast?

meat needs to be cooked but is still considered a whole food

plants aren't considered whole foods unless you can pick them up and eat them without needing to manipulate them

I apologize, I assumed this concept was understood by all before posting

But processing (or cooking, if you will) meat or vegetables doesn't change that classification?

whole food
noun
1.
food that has been processed or refined as little as possible and is free from additives or other artificial substances.

"[A]s little as possible" for what exactly?

For human consumption?

You can eat raw chicken so by your own definition, you are incorrect.

you're absolutely right. my statement of "meat needs to be cooked" was false.

but meat is still considered a whole food, I'm not wrong about that

Okay. So meat may be eaten raw, but even if it is cooked, it is considered a whole food? But if wheat is soaked and ground, then it is no longer a "whole food"?

Is the problem the food or is the problem the arbitrary concept of "whole food"?

NoAdditives

Or are you suggesting that wheat isn't meant to be eaten at all?

I'm not, although there are many medical doctors making this suggestion, I'm not going there.

I was suggesting that its not necessarily a whole food since its a plant that you can't pick and eat.

in other words, bread is a processed food.

Of course bread is a processed food. So is ratatouille or anything else that is cooked. We're not talking about bread, we're talking about wheat flour, not finished products you can make with it.