Miley Cyrus...

JenAndSome

All Miley has done is show the world how immature she is, especially with her childish response to Sinead's letter. She's young and she's stupid. But then again, who hasn't been young and stupid? :laugh: Hopefully she'll grow out of this phase and focus on making good music instead. And hopefully everyone will stop focusing so much on her...it still bothers me how much backlash Miley is getting for her actions and how little Robin Thicke is getting. As a grown man in his 30s, Robin Thicke deserves most of this negative attention from the public, not practically-still-a-child Miley. There's so much sexism in all of this that it makes me sick. :sick:

And also: The objectification of women, whether done by others or by the woman herself, is NOT feminism or women's liberation or anything like that, it's SEXISM. Plain and simple. If you think it's liberating for women to walk around naked and portray themselves primarily as sex objects and nothing more, then you've been duped by the media. A century ago, women were expected to know their "place": they were homemakers, nothing more, and their value came primarily from satisfying men by being a good wife, mother, and homemaker. Today, women are still expected to know their "place," except that this "place" has changed a bit: today a woman's "place" is to be a sex object and her value comes primarily from satisfying men by fulfilling their sexual needs. A hundred years later and a woman's value still comes primarily from satisfying men. A woman's value doesn't come from how men feel about her...THAT'S SEXIST. And anyone who illustrates that idea, that a woman's value is based on how sexually satisfying she is to men, is encouraging sexism, NOT liberation.
/rant

Not one word in there considering whether the woman showing herself is deriving pleasure from it. But bravo on identifying the total sexism inherent in the reaction to Miley and not robin thicke.


If a woman finds me pleasing, and I show myself off to her, I derive pleasure from being objectified. Why is that ok, but it's not ok for a woman?

As far as I can tell she appears to be enjoying herself. I know I would be.

In your bar example, you're probably not really being objectified, you're simply being lusted after. (And let's be honest, I think everyone enjoys being lusted after by someone they like! :laugh: )

Maybe you're misunderstanding what objectification is? Objectification is not looking at someone sexually, fantasizing about them sexually, or wanting to have sex with them. That's just lust and objectification is far more than simple lust. Objectification is the idea of seeing a person primarily as an object, an object that essentially has no value or purpose other than to satisfy someone else's specific need, and not as a multi-faceted person. Our society is already rampant with messages telling men that women are simply things meant to please them and nothing more. When a woman portrays herself in a way that essentially announces to the world "All I'm good for is sex," she's supporting these messages and making people (especially men) perceive her as nothing but an object whose only purpose is to satisfy them sexually. Even if the woman enjoys all of this, that still doesn't change the fact that she's encouraging men to see her not as a person, but as a THING.

But...isn't that what all celebrities are? They are there to entertain us and capture our attention and she has done just that. There are dozens of magazines and thousands of websites dedicated to just talking about them. To some of them I'm sure being lusted after is the goal, but to many I am sure just having their name out there makes them laugh...all the way to the bank.

2stepscloser

I think I'm developing a crush on Miley. Mostly because everyone is hating on her, partially because I might be attracted to damaged goods.....

Kinda gross, she could be your daughter...

DYfive

Ugh. Miley is not worth 5 pages of discussion.

Being a skank and sticking your tongue out doesn't make you creative or innovative. The talent is there, but she's just another sell out to the "look at me I'm crazy" way of gaining popularity.

BeefyBFit

Ugh. Miley is not worth 5 pages of discussion.

Agreed.... awesome, isn't it. :laugh:

crackur

I've been told I look like this dude and David Beckham.

Clameater

There's a photog named Terry Richardson. He has a blog. Google it if you want to see Miley's Tatas

cloveraz

She doesn't offend me...I am sure she will grow out of it...I see it all the time on the college campus I work at, so eh....She will grow out of it, we all do...I just laugh...

QuietBloom

I think we are being trolled here. :flowerforyou:

I'm sorry you feel that way.

But I sincerely feel a woman should not be ashamed to use her sexuality in any way she likes, including for a living.

This is just a bunch of people whining that someone else is not fitting their expectations for how other people should act, going as far to invent reasons it is "dangerous".

And it's also pretty damn typical, this "look at the crazy youngsters" thing. Look at what Cato had to say about Julius.

Yes it's typical (the Cato and Julius thing.

Lighten up in regards to my post needling you. It wasn't meant to be a serious offense.

PrettyPearl88

All Miley has done is show the world how immature she is, especially with her childish response to Sinead's letter. She's young and she's stupid. But then again, who hasn't been young and stupid? :laugh: Hopefully she'll grow out of this phase and focus on making good music instead. And hopefully everyone will stop focusing so much on her...it still bothers me how much backlash Miley is getting for her actions and how little Robin Thicke is getting. As a grown man in his 30s, Robin Thicke deserves most of this negative attention from the public, not practically-still-a-child Miley. There's so much sexism in all of this that it makes me sick. :sick:

And also: The objectification of women, whether done by others or by the woman herself, is NOT feminism or women's liberation or anything like that, it's SEXISM. Plain and simple. If you think it's liberating for women to walk around naked and portray themselves primarily as sex objects and nothing more, then you've been duped by the media. A century ago, women were expected to know their "place": they were homemakers, nothing more, and their value came primarily from satisfying men by being a good wife, mother, and homemaker. Today, women are still expected to know their "place," except that this "place" has changed a bit: today a woman's "place" is to be a sex object and her value comes primarily from satisfying men by fulfilling their sexual needs. A hundred years later and a woman's value still comes primarily from satisfying men. A woman's value doesn't come from how men feel about her...THAT'S SEXIST. And anyone who illustrates that idea, that a woman's value is based on how sexually satisfying she is to men, is encouraging sexism, NOT liberation.
/rant

Not one word in there considering whether the woman showing herself is deriving pleasure from it. But bravo on identifying the total sexism inherent in the reaction to Miley and not robin thicke.


If a woman finds me pleasing, and I show myself off to her, I derive pleasure from being objectified. Why is that ok, but it's not ok for a woman?

As far as I can tell she appears to be enjoying herself. I know I would be.

In your bar example, you're probably not really being objectified, you're simply being lusted after. (And let's be honest, I think everyone enjoys being lusted after by someone they like! :laugh: )

Maybe you're misunderstanding what objectification is? Objectification is not looking at someone sexually, fantasizing about them sexually, or wanting to have sex with them. That's just lust and objectification is far more than simple lust. Objectification is the idea of seeing a person primarily as an object, an object that essentially has no value or purpose other than to satisfy someone else's specific need, and not as a multi-faceted person. Our society is already rampant with messages telling men that women are simply things meant to please them and nothing more. When a woman portrays herself in a way that essentially announces to the world "All I'm good for is sex," she's supporting these messages and making people (especially men) perceive her as nothing but an object whose only purpose is to satisfy them sexually. Even if the woman enjoys all of this, that still doesn't change the fact that she's encouraging men to see her not as a person, but as a THING.

But...isn't that what all celebrities are? They are there to entertain us and capture our attention and she has done just that. There are dozens of magazines and thousands of websites dedicated to just talking about them. To some of them I'm sure being lusted after is the goal, but to many I am sure just having their name out there makes them laugh...all the way to the bank.

Yeah, many celebrities send out that same message that their only value is their sex appeal. But many don't as well: there are many celebrities who show the world that they can be valued for many things about them and that their looks and sex appeal are only one of those things. That message, that a woman is only good for sexual satisfaction, is everywhere in our culture, but that doesn't justify it. Just because sexism is prevalent doesn't mean it's perfectly okay.

And you're right, a lot of it boils down to money and fame.

greyoutside

Girl is a hot mess and she knows it. Check out her Rolling Stone interview, it made me think that she's actually pretty ****ing cool.

nomorepizza2

I watched the whole of the VMA award show out of curiosity. Just to see what the "kids" were listening to these days. Miley's performance struck me as joyful, youthful exuberance. Utterly harmless and quite fun. Every other idiot that appeared on stage that night looked so damn serious and tortured. Pop is about fun and she is fun.

anemoneprose

I'm sorry you feel that way.

But I sincerely feel a woman should not be ashamed to use her sexuality in any way she likes, including for a living.

This is just a bunch of people whining that someone else is not fitting their expectations for how other people should act, going as far to invent reasons it is "dangerous".

And it's also pretty damn typical, this "look at the crazy youngsters" thing. Look at what Cato had to say about Julius.

Here's where I think you don't get it. I bartend topless. I am in favor of legalizing prostitution. I have no issue with a woman using her sexuality for profit. But there's a difference between being empowered and being objectified and there's

If you'd like further reference, there's a wonderful film entitle Miss Representation that has lots of information (scientific, political, historical) as to why sexualization of women in the media has a negative impact on women as a whole. You have to able to see the big picture. It's not about policing her sexuality. it's about the underlying social impacts.

And that's not the only side to feminism. Not sure why you would assume I am ignorant or trolling. I sincerely disagree, and am well informed.

I have an opinion that is in conflict with yours. I don't see evidence for social harm here. And I also think she's playing her culture like its an instrument, and I find it interesting and thought provoking. Sort of a performance art. And I love the way she lays on themes of innocence and debauchery by reminding us all that we knew her as a child. She's an adult now, and every adult was once a child.


I think the prudish attacks are the real danger to women.

Do you think a person capable of the response made to Sinead O'Conner could create the kind of thoughtful art you're suggesting here?

Gaga, yes. Miley, no way. I don't think she knows what she's on about. She feels like being sexy and seen as sexy; she wants to not be a 'baby' anymore, & change perceptions a bit. Maybe she chose her shorts. Great, I can see how you might interpret that as being 'empowered', in a sort of Spice Girls way.

If there's art, you're creating it, through your analysis; it is not coming from this girl.

DYfive

I watched the whole of the VMA award show out of curiosity. Just to see what the "kids" were listening to these days. Miley's performance struck me as joyful, youthful exuberance. Utterly harmless and quite fun. Every other idiot that appeared on stage that night looked so damn serious and tortured. Pop is about fun and she is fun.

Yeah... Miley was "fun"... and JT was serious and tortured...

LOL....

vtmoon

Hopefully, she doesn't flip out as bad as Amanda Bynes.

We call that mental illness. Thanks for being such a great mental health advocate. Cheers.

You are aware that some mental illness you aren't born with, as in they happen due to life pressures.

But thanks for being a ... nvm. Cheers!

Madame_Goldbricker

I think it's ridiculous the way people are freaking out. She's not doing anything Madonna Kesha gaga ect haven't done but some how people lose their **** when she does it. Madonna simulated *kitten* on stage and made out with Britney ... Totally cool... Gaga wears a meat dress and imitates people with disabilities in one of her videos.. Totally cool. Miley tweerks and sticks her tounge out everyone freaks. It's kinda funny

She is the victim of the Disney success. Happened with Britney Spears too. Young performers gather a huge following from being a successful Disney star, so when they try to move on they expect that level of success to follow them in anything they do. Sadly, they are still perceived as what they became famous for, and instead of embracing it and gradually breaking away ( like Harry Potter), they try to go to extremes by doing things to distance themselves from the brand that made them famous.

Hopefully, she doesn't flip out as bad as Amanda Bynes.

Gradually breaking away as (Harry Potter) did. Are you referring to when he appeared on stage naked at 17 in "Equus"? Pretty sure I can recall tabloid's stating; "Daniel gets his wand out" & so forth.

vtmoon

I think it's ridiculous the way people are freaking out. She's not doing anything Madonna Kesha gaga ect haven't done but some how people lose their **** when she does it. Madonna simulated *kitten* on stage and made out with Britney ... Totally cool... Gaga wears a meat dress and imitates people with disabilities in one of her videos.. Totally cool. Miley tweerks and sticks her tounge out everyone freaks. It's kinda funny

She is the victim of the Disney success. Happened with Britney Spears too. Young performers gather a huge following from being a successful Disney star, so when they try to move on they expect that level of success to follow them in anything they do. Sadly, they are still perceived as what they became famous for, and instead of embracing it and gradually breaking away ( like Harry Potter), they try to go to extremes by doing things to distance themselves from the brand that made them famous.

Hopefully, she doesn't flip out as bad as Amanda Bynes.

Gradually breaking away as (Harry Potter) did. Are you referring to when he appeared on stage naked at 17 in "Equus"? Pretty sure I can recall tabloid's stating; "Daniel gets his wand out" & so forth.

Are you really comparing theatre to an award show? I'll skip this one because I don't feel like trying to writing an essay.

When I was talking about gradually breaking away, I meant from the brand not from the art form. If Miley would had gradually switched away from her Disney brand it would've worked out differently (there are a lot of people who think this is what she wanted). she is pretty much entwined with that brand through music, tv, film, consumer products.

Radcliffe was doing work outside his Harry Potter before the movies were over and he was going all over in order to minimize being tore casted after Harry Potter was over.

pcastagner

I'm sorry you feel that way.

But I sincerely feel a woman should not be ashamed to use her sexuality in any way she likes, including for a living.

This is just a bunch of people whining that someone else is not fitting their expectations for how other people should act, going as far to invent reasons it is "dangerous".

And it's also pretty damn typical, this "look at the crazy youngsters" thing. Look at what Cato had to say about Julius.

Here's where I think you don't get it. I bartend topless. I am in favor of legalizing prostitution. I have no issue with a woman using her sexuality for profit. But there's a difference between being empowered and being objectified and there's

If you'd like further reference, there's a wonderful film entitle Miss Representation that has lots of information (scientific, political, historical) as to why sexualization of women in the media has a negative impact on women as a whole. You have to able to see the big picture. It's not about policing her sexuality. it's about the underlying social impacts.

And that's not the only side to feminism. Not sure why you would assume I am ignorant or trolling. I sincerely disagree, and am well informed.

I have an opinion that is in conflict with yours. I don't see evidence for social harm here. And I also think she's playing her culture like its an instrument, and I find it interesting and thought provoking. Sort of a performance art. And I love the way she lays on themes of innocence and debauchery by reminding us all that we knew her as a child. She's an adult now, and every adult was once a child.


I think the prudish attacks are the real danger to women.

Do you think a person capable of the response made to Sinead O'Conner could create the kind of thoughtful art you're suggesting here?

Gaga, yes. Miley, no way. I don't think she knows what she's on about. She feels like being sexy and seen as sexy; she wants to not be a 'baby' anymore, & change perceptions a bit. Maybe she chose her shorts. Great, I can see how you might interpret that as being 'empowered', in a sort of Spice Girls way.

If there's art, you're creating it, through your analysis; it is not coming from this girl.

I love it. Arbitrary dfinition of who can be an artist, applied retroactively to determine if something fits an arbitrary definition for art.


To answer your question, yes, someone capable of creating great art can be a total douche.

pinkraynedropjacki

Only thing I like about her... is her haircut. So much so I went & got mine done the same way. Don't judge me on that. I wanna LOOK like her...not BE her. :laugh:


Plus she sounds like a drag queen.

pcastagner

Only thing I like about her... is her haircut. So much so I went & got mine done the same way. Don't judge me on that. I wanna LOOK like her...not BE her. :laugh:


Plus she sounds like a drag queen.

Drag queens are awesome actually. I've seen some amazing performers in that genre.

pcastagner

I think it's ridiculous the way people are freaking out. She's not doing anything Madonna Kesha gaga ect haven't done but some how people lose their **** when she does it. Madonna simulated *kitten* on stage and made out with Britney ... Totally cool... Gaga wears a meat dress and imitates people with disabilities in one of her videos.. Totally cool. Miley tweerks and sticks her tounge out everyone freaks. It's kinda funny

She is the victim of the Disney success. Happened with Britney Spears too. Young performers gather a huge following from being a successful Disney star, so when they try to move on they expect that level of success to follow them in anything they do. Sadly, they are still perceived as what they became famous for, and instead of embracing it and gradually breaking away ( like Harry Potter), they try to go to extremes by doing things to distance themselves from the brand that made them famous.

Hopefully, she doesn't flip out as bad as Amanda Bynes.

Gradually breaking away as (Harry Potter) did. Are you referring to when he appeared on stage naked at 17 in "Equus"? Pretty sure I can recall tabloid's stating; "Daniel gets his wand out" & so forth.

Are you really comparing theatre to an award show? I'll skip this one because I don't feel like trying to writing an essay.

When I was talking about gradually breaking away, I meant from the brand not from the art form. If Miley would had gradually switched away from her Disney brand it would've worked out differently (there are a lot of people who think this is what she wanted). she is pretty much entwined with that brand through music, tv, film, consumer products.

Radcliffe was doing work outside his Harry Potter before the movies were over and he was going all over in order to minimize being tore casted after Harry Potter was over.

Ah yes, the good old high art/low art dichotomy.

Utterly useless.