"The problem with sugar is your problem with sugar"

ndj1979

There is absolutely NO nutritional value for the body by consuming raw sugar in ANY form. I avoid it like the flu. I use stevia if I need the powder form or I use honey. LOVE LOVE LOVE honey, and I treat myself to honey from Germany. It is a lot more flavorful than ours and totally worth buying. But as for me and sugar---never never,

you realize honey has sugar in it, right?

...but it's natural...

...so it's chemically different...

...and doesn't count...

...because science.

so let me get this straight..its naturally, chemically, different? sounds legit....kind of like lucky charms are magically delicious...?

I always pick the marshmellows out of my lucky charms. Because disgusting.

Conclusion: No, they aren't magically delicious.

This is why you and I can never be friends.

I used to eat all the cereal out of my Lucky Charms so I would have a big pile of marshmallows to enjoy. The cereal was completely obligatory (because my parents would whip my *kitten* if they caught me throwing it away).

ETA: Wait a second...this is why we *should* be friends...so you can eat the cereal and I can eat the marshmallows. Win-win!

I like the way you think.

the best part of lucky charms was the sugary milk leftovers...oh wait, I should probably not say that on this thread...eject, eject, eject!!!!!!

ndj1979

Also, the processed sources of sugar, such as Oreos, are actually engineered to cause a physiological addictive response (these are known as "highly palatable foods").

*kitten*!! I can never find my tinfoil hat when I need it!

oreos the new crack, who knew...?

ndj1979

So if you have no problem with people (like me) dropping sugar from their collective diets, then why not just eat your way and I'll eat mine?


There are so many posts about who's 'right' on MFP, as if we all have the same body chemistry or the same experiences with food.

if you do not eat sugar that is fine.

I only have a problem with people who classify one form of sugar as 'good' and other forms as 'bad'

Ang108

it's a poor workman who blames his tools.

This is perfect example of someone else not understanding a behavioral addiction to food.

When I sit down and eat 20 Oreo cookies, hunger has absolutely nothing to do with it. I am eating them for pleasure.

I did this just last night - ate a sleeve of Oreos not 2 hours after eating a full dinner of PF Chang's. I did not eat them because I was hungry. I ate them because they tasted good.

I wonder why you logged PF Chang's, but not the Oreos ?

QuietBloom

I did some poking around pubmed for food and addiction and found this. Specifically 'sucrose and addiction'. For your perusal. I had no idea there was a Laboratory for Addictive Disorders! As such, of course they are biased, but apparently it passed peer review.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Behav Pharmacol. 2012 Sep;23(5-6):593-602. doi: 10.1097/FBP.0b013e328357697f.
Withdrawal from chronic, intermittent access to a highly palatable food induces depressive-like behavior in compulsive eating rats.
Iemolo A, Valenza M, Tozier L, Knapp CM, Kornetsky C, Steardo L, Sabino V, Cottone P.
Source

Laboratory of Addictive Disorders, Department of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts 02118, USA.
Abstract

The increased availability of highly palatable foods is a major contributing factor toward the development of compulsive eating in obesity and eating disorders. It has been proposed that compulsive eating may develop as a form of self-medication to alleviate the negative emotional state associated with withdrawal from highly palatable foods. This study was aimed at determining whether withdrawal from chronic, intermittent access to a highly palatable food was responsible for the emergence of depressive-like behavior. For this purpose, a group of male Wistar rats was provided a regular chow diet 7 days a week (Chow/Chow), whereas a second group of rats was provided chow for 5 days a week, followed by a 2-day access to a highly palatable sucrose diet (Chow/Palatable). Following 7 weeks of diet alternation, depressive-like behavior was assessed during withdrawal from the highly palatable diet and following renewed access to it, using the forced swim test, the sucrose consumption test, and the intracranial self-stimulation threshold procedure. It was found that Chow/Palatable rats withdrawn from the highly palatable diet showed increased immobility time in the forced swim test and decreased sucrose intake in the sucrose consumption test compared with the control Chow/Chow rats. Interestingly, the increased immobility in the forced swim test was abolished by renewing access to the highly palatable diet. No changes were observed in the intracranial self-stimulation threshold procedure. These results validate the hypothesis that withdrawal from highly palatable food is responsible for the emergence of depressive-like behavior, and they also show that compulsive eating relieves the withdrawal-induced negative emotional state.

PMID:
22854309
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

QuietBloom

it's a poor workman who blames his tools.

This is perfect example of someone else not understanding a behavioral addiction to food.

When I sit down and eat 20 Oreo cookies, hunger has absolutely nothing to do with it. I am eating them for pleasure.

I did this just last night - ate a sleeve of Oreos not 2 hours after eating a full dinner of PF Chang's. I did not eat them because I was hungry. I ate them because they tasted good.

I wonder why you logged PF Chang's, but not the Oreos ?

In all honesty, why does that really matter?

jofjltncb6

it's a poor workman who blames his tools.

This is perfect example of someone else not understanding a behavioral addiction to food.

When I sit down and eat 20 Oreo cookies, hunger has absolutely nothing to do with it. I am eating them for pleasure.

I did this just last night - ate a sleeve of Oreos not 2 hours after eating a full dinner of PF Chang's. I did not eat them because I was hungry. I ate them because they tasted good.

I wonder why you logged PF Chang's, but not the Oreos ?

In all honesty, why does that really matter?

I didn't say that, so I don't know exactly what they were thinking...

...but my answer would be because accurate logging is a foundational principle of the MFP approach to weight management.

wild_wild_life

I did some poking around pubmed for food and addiction and found this. Specifically 'sucrose and addiction'. For your perusal. I had no idea there was a Laboratory for Addictive Disorders! As such, of course they are biased, but apparently it passed peer review.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Behav Pharmacol. 2012 Sep;23(5-6):593-602. doi: 10.1097/FBP.0b013e328357697f.
Withdrawal from chronic, intermittent access to a highly palatable food induces depressive-like behavior in compulsive eating rats.
Iemolo A, Valenza M, Tozier L, Knapp CM, Kornetsky C, Steardo L, Sabino V, Cottone P.
Source

Laboratory of Addictive Disorders, Department of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts 02118, USA.
Abstract

The increased availability of highly palatable foods is a major contributing factor toward the development of compulsive eating in obesity and eating disorders. It has been proposed that compulsive eating may develop as a form of self-medication to alleviate the negative emotional state associated with withdrawal from highly palatable foods. This study was aimed at determining whether withdrawal from chronic, intermittent access to a highly palatable food was responsible for the emergence of depressive-like behavior. For this purpose, a group of male Wistar rats was provided a regular chow diet 7 days a week (Chow/Chow), whereas a second group of rats was provided chow for 5 days a week, followed by a 2-day access to a highly palatable sucrose diet (Chow/Palatable). Following 7 weeks of diet alternation, depressive-like behavior was assessed during withdrawal from the highly palatable diet and following renewed access to it, using the forced swim test, the sucrose consumption test, and the intracranial self-stimulation threshold procedure. It was found that Chow/Palatable rats withdrawn from the highly palatable diet showed increased immobility time in the forced swim test and decreased sucrose intake in the sucrose consumption test compared with the control Chow/Chow rats. Interestingly, the increased immobility in the forced swim test was abolished by renewing access to the highly palatable diet. No changes were observed in the intracranial self-stimulation threshold procedure. These results validate the hypothesis that withdrawal from highly palatable food is responsible for the emergence of depressive-like behavior, and they also show that compulsive eating relieves the withdrawal-induced negative emotional state.

PMID:
22854309
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I want to know what this intracranial self stimulation thing is all about.

QuietBloom

I want to know what this intracranial self stimulation thing is all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_stimulation_reward

wild_wild_life

I want to know what this intracranial self stimulation thing is all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_stimulation_reward

Yeah, I looked it up too. Doesn't sound as fun if they have to put in electrodes first.

QuietBloom

I want to know what this intracranial self stimulation thing is all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_stimulation_reward

Yeah, I looked it up too. Doesn't sound as fun if they have to put in electrodes first.

Yep. It pretty much looks like a science fiction movie. I'm a little afraid to Google 'forced swim'.

jofjltncb6

"All sugar acts the same"

Not in all bodies. If it all acted the same then people with similar diets would always have similar insulin responses, and they don't. That's why diabetes exists.

I'm having trouble following this logic. If two people react differently to something, it's the something that is obviously different? I bet there's a catchy name for this kind of logical fallacy.

wild_wild_life

I want to know what this intracranial self stimulation thing is all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_stimulation_reward

Yeah, I looked it up too. Doesn't sound as fun if they have to put in electrodes first.

Yep. It pretty much looks like a science fiction movie. I'm a little afraid to Google 'forced swim'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_despair_test

It's actually kind of interesting. I see a correlate in posting on the boards. How long does it take to realize it's hopeless?

jofjltncb6

"All sugar acts the same"

Not in all bodies. If it all acted the same then people with similar diets would always have similar insulin responses, and they don't. That's why diabetes exists.

I'm having trouble following this logic. If two people react differently to something, it's the something that is obviously different? I bet there's a catchy name for this kind of logical fallacy.

I tried to figure out how to explain this more clearly... but it seems already pretty clear to me. Sugar doesn't act the same because people's bodies react differently to it.

Maybe if I said, "people shouldn't say all sugar acts the same way in all bodies" because you didn't know I was talking about how sugar acts when sugar was being consumed by a human?

So your position on this "seems already pretty clear to" you? I would hope so. My position is already pretty clear to me too.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

I want to know what this intracranial self stimulation thing is all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_stimulation_reward

Yeah, I looked it up too. Doesn't sound as fun if they have to put in electrodes first.

Yep. It pretty much looks like a science fiction movie. I'm a little afraid to Google 'forced swim'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_despair_test

It's actually kind of interesting. I see a correlate in posting on the boards. How long does it take to realize it's hopeless?

About a year, in my experience.

kaikea

I found out there was sugar in my broccoli. F-you Nature. Broccoli never again.