"The problem with sugar is your problem with sugar"

Wildflower0106

When I think about people I know who have never had a weight problem they usually do not abstain from anything. Overall they eat less and honestly I don't think they spend as much time worried about food. Maybe because they've never had a weight problem, who knows.

I agree with you. In a similar thread I started keeping track of the people who did not think that food behavioral addiction was real vs. those who did, and without exception every single person who did not who had a profile pictures was reasonably fit.

It's anecdotal, but I did see the pattern.

Oh there's a pattern all right :laugh:

I was 275lbs at my highest weight... I have never been addicted to food and I don't believe in "food addictio.

Was I obese enough for my opinion to matter?

Dragonwolf

Just WOW!

Like I said earlier in the thread, nicotine is the reason I know the difference between an addiction and a bad habit. Name *any* food that is part of your wild claim and I can promise you that I can eat one serving of it then put it down. It's *not* addictive. Nicotine is.

You seem to have missed the part where I stated that the effects depend on how long a person has been consuming the substance in question, and how it affects their body to begin with. One also doesn't need to be "addicted" in the traditional sense to experience withdrawal symptoms (for example, I've dealt with the withdrawal symptoms of Celexa, which is one of the worst SSRIs to suddenly withdraw from in terms of withdrawal symptoms, even though I was never addicted to it).

That said, any highly palatable food has the potential to cause withdrawal symptoms, though many people probably don't recognize it as such, because it generally comes in the form of a depressive state that a) may or may not be enough to warrant concern (ie - be the aforementioned "slightly irritable") or b) may not even be connected by the layman observers. The drive to eat another potato chip or cookie or whatever is the drive to remove oneself from that depressive state, regardless of whether the suffer is consciously aware of it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22854309

And, to reiterate, just because it can cause withdrawal symptoms, it doesn't mean it always will for every single person, or to the same degree (the same can be said for all potentially addictive substances). So, just because you, personally, don't feel the need to keep eating the box of Twinkies, it doesn't mean everyone else has the same reaction.

Dragonwolf

Dragonwolf: Cigarettes are not food.

Where did I ever say they were? They are, however, a consumer product, and one that people consume. In the case of cigarettes, one burns them and inhales the smoke. That's still consumption, and it still has an effect on the body and causes a dopamine response, driving people to want more after they come down from the high. Some people have a stronger drive than others.

Additionally, a company doesn't have to learn tactics solely from its own industry. In fact, a smart executive will look for successes in other industries and see if/how they can apply it to their own. Therefore, it's not much of a stretch, let alone tinfoil hat territory, to think that a company like Nestle, Nabisco, or Frito-Lay would look at the fact that Phillip Morris toys with their ingredients in order to get more people to buy their product and get the people who are buying to buy more/more often, and start experimenting with their own, based on the fact that humans have evolved to go after things that taste sweet, salty, and fatty. Get some combination of all three that makes it very hard to resist, because it triggers a dopamine response far beyond what can be found in nature (where sweet, salty, and fatty are rarely found together in a single food item), and you can increase revenue. Like I said, business 101. It's not tinfoil hat, it's smart business.

Just want to come back and say that I'm doing a several day carb depletion as part of a pre-marathon nutrition plan (come Thursday I eat ALL THE CARBS). I have a slight headache and am a little bit foggy and irritable.

Anyone who compares this feeling to actual drug withdrawl is a f*cking moron.

Not all drugs are black tar heroine or crack cocaine and come with got-hit-by-a-train withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol and prescription medications are still drugs, and they can still cause withdrawal symptoms. The withdrawal symptoms vary depending on the specific substance due to how it interacts with a given individual, how much of a tolerance they have, and how much (and for how long) they've been consuming the substance. Even for the same substance, the withdrawal symptoms can vary from person to person. Even things like Tylenol and Ibuprofen can cause what is known as "rebound," or a returning of the symptoms they were taken to relieve, as an effect of stopping them, if you take them too often or for too long.

Additionally, just because you only felt "a little bit foggy and irritable," it doesn't mean those are the only symptoms felt by people, or that the severity with which you've felt it is the only severity level (nor does it mean that they aren't withdrawal symptoms). It's known as "carb flu" for a reason - many of the symptoms include chills, shakiness, nausea, fatigue, irritability, and brain fog - flu-like symptoms. And like anything else, the number and severity of the symptoms depends on the individual.

LOL at thinking alcohol detox tremors or oxy withdrawl are like going without carbs for a few days.

LOL at reading comprehension fail.

I never once said that. In fact, I very specifically said that not all substances have the same withdrawal symptoms as the hard drugs that everyone thinks about when they see the term "withdrawal."

BrainyBurro

Dragonwolf: Cigarettes are not food.

Where did I ever say they were? They are, however, a consumer product, and one that people consume. In the case of cigarettes, one burns them and inhales the smoke. That's still consumption, and it still has an effect on the body and causes a dopamine response, driving people to want more after they come down from the high. Some people have a stronger drive than others.

Additionally, a company doesn't have to learn tactics solely from its own industry. In fact, a smart executive will look for successes in other industries and see if/how they can apply it to their own. Therefore, it's not much of a stretch, let alone tinfoil hat territory, to think that a company like Nestle, Nabisco, or Frito-Lay would look at the fact that Phillip Morris toys with their ingredients in order to get more people to buy their product and get the people who are buying to buy more/more often, and start experimenting with their own, based on the fact that humans have evolved to go after things that taste sweet, salty, and fatty. Get some combination of all three that makes it very hard to resist, because it triggers a dopamine response far beyond what can be found in nature (where sweet, salty, and fatty are rarely found together in a single food item), and you can increase revenue. Like I said, business 101. It's not tinfoil hat, it's smart business.

Just want to come back and say that I'm doing a several day carb depletion as part of a pre-marathon nutrition plan (come Thursday I eat ALL THE CARBS). I have a slight headache and am a little bit foggy and irritable.

Anyone who compares this feeling to actual drug withdrawl is a f*cking moron.

Not all drugs are black tar heroine or crack cocaine and come with got-hit-by-a-train withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol and prescription medications are still drugs, and they can still cause withdrawal symptoms. The withdrawal symptoms vary depending on the specific substance due to how it interacts with a given individual, how much of a tolerance they have, and how much (and for how long) they've been consuming the substance. Even for the same substance, the withdrawal symptoms can vary from person to person. Even things like Tylenol and Ibuprofen can cause what is known as "rebound," or a returning of the symptoms they were taken to relieve, as an effect of stopping them, if you take them too often or for too long.

Additionally, just because you only felt "a little bit foggy and irritable," it doesn't mean those are the only symptoms felt by people, or that the severity with which you've felt it is the only severity level (nor does it mean that they aren't withdrawal symptoms). It's known as "carb flu" for a reason - many of the symptoms include chills, shakiness, nausea, fatigue, irritability, and brain fog - flu-like symptoms. And like anything else, the number and severity of the symptoms depends on the individual.

LOL at thinking alcohol detox tremors or oxy withdrawl are like going without carbs for a few days.

LOL at reading comprehension fail.

I never once said that. In fact, I very specifically said that not all substances have the same withdrawal symptoms as the hard drugs that everyone thinks about when they see the term "withdrawal."

so, let's see if i have this correct...

- processed food is bad.
- food companies purposely make processed food addictive.
- you eat "primal".

here's my conclusion...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/c/confirmation_bias.htm

ThickMcRunFast

Dragonwolf: Cigarettes are not food.

Where did I ever say they were? They are, however, a consumer product, and one that people consume. In the case of cigarettes, one burns them and inhales the smoke. That's still consumption, and it still has an effect on the body and causes a dopamine response, driving people to want more after they come down from the high. Some people have a stronger drive than others.

Additionally, a company doesn't have to learn tactics solely from its own industry. In fact, a smart executive will look for successes in other industries and see if/how they can apply it to their own. Therefore, it's not much of a stretch, let alone tinfoil hat territory, to think that a company like Nestle, Nabisco, or Frito-Lay would look at the fact that Phillip Morris toys with their ingredients in order to get more people to buy their product and get the people who are buying to buy more/more often, and start experimenting with their own, based on the fact that humans have evolved to go after things that taste sweet, salty, and fatty. Get some combination of all three that makes it very hard to resist, because it triggers a dopamine response far beyond what can be found in nature (where sweet, salty, and fatty are rarely found together in a single food item), and you can increase revenue. Like I said, business 101. It's not tinfoil hat, it's smart business.

Just want to come back and say that I'm doing a several day carb depletion as part of a pre-marathon nutrition plan (come Thursday I eat ALL THE CARBS). I have a slight headache and am a little bit foggy and irritable.

Anyone who compares this feeling to actual drug withdrawl is a f*cking moron.

Not all drugs are black tar heroine or crack cocaine and come with got-hit-by-a-train withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol and prescription medications are still drugs, and they can still cause withdrawal symptoms. The withdrawal symptoms vary depending on the specific substance due to how it interacts with a given individual, how much of a tolerance they have, and how much (and for how long) they've been consuming the substance. Even for the same substance, the withdrawal symptoms can vary from person to person. Even things like Tylenol and Ibuprofen can cause what is known as "rebound," or a returning of the symptoms they were taken to relieve, as an effect of stopping them, if you take them too often or for too long.

Additionally, just because you only felt "a little bit foggy and irritable," it doesn't mean those are the only symptoms felt by people, or that the severity with which you've felt it is the only severity level (nor does it mean that they aren't withdrawal symptoms). It's known as "carb flu" for a reason - many of the symptoms include chills, shakiness, nausea, fatigue, irritability, and brain fog - flu-like symptoms. And like anything else, the number and severity of the symptoms depends on the individual.

LOL at thinking alcohol detox tremors or oxy withdrawl are like going without carbs for a few days.

LOL at reading comprehension fail.

I never once said that. In fact, I very specifically said that not all substances have the same withdrawal symptoms as the hard drugs that everyone thinks about when they see the term "withdrawal."

just gonna bold the part where you say that alcohol and pill don't have bad withdrawl symptoms.

also I think you would be happier if you had some toast.

Mcgrawhaha

Dragonwolf: Cigarettes are not food.

Where did I ever say they were? They are, however, a consumer product, and one that people consume. In the case of cigarettes, one burns them and inhales the smoke. That's still consumption, and it still has an effect on the body and causes a dopamine response, driving people to want more after they come down from the high. Some people have a stronger drive than others.

Additionally, a company doesn't have to learn tactics solely from its own industry. In fact, a smart executive will look for successes in other industries and see if/how they can apply it to their own. Therefore, it's not much of a stretch, let alone tinfoil hat territory, to think that a company like Nestle, Nabisco, or Frito-Lay would look at the fact that Phillip Morris toys with their ingredients in order to get more people to buy their product and get the people who are buying to buy more/more often, and start experimenting with their own, based on the fact that humans have evolved to go after things that taste sweet, salty, and fatty. Get some combination of all three that makes it very hard to resist, because it triggers a dopamine response far beyond what can be found in nature (where sweet, salty, and fatty are rarely found together in a single food item), and you can increase revenue. Like I said, business 101. It's not tinfoil hat, it's smart business.

Just want to come back and say that I'm doing a several day carb depletion as part of a pre-marathon nutrition plan (come Thursday I eat ALL THE CARBS). I have a slight headache and am a little bit foggy and irritable.

Anyone who compares this feeling to actual drug withdrawl is a f*cking moron.

Not all drugs are black tar heroine or crack cocaine and come with got-hit-by-a-train withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol and prescription medications are still drugs, and they can still cause withdrawal symptoms. The withdrawal symptoms vary depending on the specific substance due to how it interacts with a given individual, how much of a tolerance they have, and how much (and for how long) they've been consuming the substance. Even for the same substance, the withdrawal symptoms can vary from person to person. Even things like Tylenol and Ibuprofen can cause what is known as "rebound," or a returning of the symptoms they were taken to relieve, as an effect of stopping them, if you take them too often or for too long.

Additionally, just because you only felt "a little bit foggy and irritable," it doesn't mean those are the only symptoms felt by people, or that the severity with which you've felt it is the only severity level (nor does it mean that they aren't withdrawal symptoms). It's known as "carb flu" for a reason - many of the symptoms include chills, shakiness, nausea, fatigue, irritability, and brain fog - flu-like symptoms. And like anything else, the number and severity of the symptoms depends on the individual.

LOL at thinking alcohol detox tremors or oxy withdrawl are like going without carbs for a few days.

LOL at reading comprehension fail.

I never once said that. In fact, I very specifically said that not all substances have the same withdrawal symptoms as the hard drugs that everyone thinks about when they see the term "withdrawal."

just gonna bold the part where you say that alcohol and pill don't have bad withdrawl symptoms.

also I think you would be happier if you had some toast.

but how many calories are in that black tar heroine? thats the big question...

ThickMcRunFast

Dragonwolf: Cigarettes are not food.

Where did I ever say they were? They are, however, a consumer product, and one that people consume. In the case of cigarettes, one burns them and inhales the smoke. That's still consumption, and it still has an effect on the body and causes a dopamine response, driving people to want more after they come down from the high. Some people have a stronger drive than others.

Additionally, a company doesn't have to learn tactics solely from its own industry. In fact, a smart executive will look for successes in other industries and see if/how they can apply it to their own. Therefore, it's not much of a stretch, let alone tinfoil hat territory, to think that a company like Nestle, Nabisco, or Frito-Lay would look at the fact that Phillip Morris toys with their ingredients in order to get more people to buy their product and get the people who are buying to buy more/more often, and start experimenting with their own, based on the fact that humans have evolved to go after things that taste sweet, salty, and fatty. Get some combination of all three that makes it very hard to resist, because it triggers a dopamine response far beyond what can be found in nature (where sweet, salty, and fatty are rarely found together in a single food item), and you can increase revenue. Like I said, business 101. It's not tinfoil hat, it's smart business.

Just want to come back and say that I'm doing a several day carb depletion as part of a pre-marathon nutrition plan (come Thursday I eat ALL THE CARBS). I have a slight headache and am a little bit foggy and irritable.

Anyone who compares this feeling to actual drug withdrawl is a f*cking moron.

Not all drugs are black tar heroine or crack cocaine and come with got-hit-by-a-train withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol and prescription medications are still drugs, and they can still cause withdrawal symptoms. The withdrawal symptoms vary depending on the specific substance due to how it interacts with a given individual, how much of a tolerance they have, and how much (and for how long) they've been consuming the substance. Even for the same substance, the withdrawal symptoms can vary from person to person. Even things like Tylenol and Ibuprofen can cause what is known as "rebound," or a returning of the symptoms they were taken to relieve, as an effect of stopping them, if you take them too often or for too long.

Additionally, just because you only felt "a little bit foggy and irritable," it doesn't mean those are the only symptoms felt by people, or that the severity with which you've felt it is the only severity level (nor does it mean that they aren't withdrawal symptoms). It's known as "carb flu" for a reason - many of the symptoms include chills, shakiness, nausea, fatigue, irritability, and brain fog - flu-like symptoms. And like anything else, the number and severity of the symptoms depends on the individual.

LOL at thinking alcohol detox tremors or oxy withdrawl are like going without carbs for a few days.

LOL at reading comprehension fail.

I never once said that. In fact, I very specifically said that not all substances have the same withdrawal symptoms as the hard drugs that everyone thinks about when they see the term "withdrawal."

just gonna bold the part where you say that alcohol and pill don't have bad withdrawl symptoms.

also I think you would be happier if you had some toast.

but how many calories are in that black tar heroine? thats the big question...

I only eat poppy. Its natural. Heroin is too processed.

Mcgrawhaha

Dragonwolf: Cigarettes are not food.

Where did I ever say they were? They are, however, a consumer product, and one that people consume. In the case of cigarettes, one burns them and inhales the smoke. That's still consumption, and it still has an effect on the body and causes a dopamine response, driving people to want more after they come down from the high. Some people have a stronger drive than others.

Additionally, a company doesn't have to learn tactics solely from its own industry. In fact, a smart executive will look for successes in other industries and see if/how they can apply it to their own. Therefore, it's not much of a stretch, let alone tinfoil hat territory, to think that a company like Nestle, Nabisco, or Frito-Lay would look at the fact that Phillip Morris toys with their ingredients in order to get more people to buy their product and get the people who are buying to buy more/more often, and start experimenting with their own, based on the fact that humans have evolved to go after things that taste sweet, salty, and fatty. Get some combination of all three that makes it very hard to resist, because it triggers a dopamine response far beyond what can be found in nature (where sweet, salty, and fatty are rarely found together in a single food item), and you can increase revenue. Like I said, business 101. It's not tinfoil hat, it's smart business.

Just want to come back and say that I'm doing a several day carb depletion as part of a pre-marathon nutrition plan (come Thursday I eat ALL THE CARBS). I have a slight headache and am a little bit foggy and irritable.

Anyone who compares this feeling to actual drug withdrawl is a f*cking moron.

Not all drugs are black tar heroine or crack cocaine and come with got-hit-by-a-train withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol and prescription medications are still drugs, and they can still cause withdrawal symptoms. The withdrawal symptoms vary depending on the specific substance due to how it interacts with a given individual, how much of a tolerance they have, and how much (and for how long) they've been consuming the substance. Even for the same substance, the withdrawal symptoms can vary from person to person. Even things like Tylenol and Ibuprofen can cause what is known as "rebound," or a returning of the symptoms they were taken to relieve, as an effect of stopping them, if you take them too often or for too long.

Additionally, just because you only felt "a little bit foggy and irritable," it doesn't mean those are the only symptoms felt by people, or that the severity with which you've felt it is the only severity level (nor does it mean that they aren't withdrawal symptoms). It's known as "carb flu" for a reason - many of the symptoms include chills, shakiness, nausea, fatigue, irritability, and brain fog - flu-like symptoms. And like anything else, the number and severity of the symptoms depends on the individual.

LOL at thinking alcohol detox tremors or oxy withdrawl are like going without carbs for a few days.

LOL at reading comprehension fail.

I never once said that. In fact, I very specifically said that not all substances have the same withdrawal symptoms as the hard drugs that everyone thinks about when they see the term "withdrawal."

just gonna bold the part where you say that alcohol and pill don't have bad withdrawl symptoms.

also I think you would be happier if you had some toast.

but how many calories are in that black tar heroine? thats the big question...

I only eat poppy. Its natural. Heroin is too processed.

i hear the poppy has the "good" sugar, if you know what i mean...

LiftAllThePizzas

Therefore, it's not much of a stretch, let alone tinfoil hat territory, to think that a company like Nestle, Nabisco, or Frito-Lay would look at the fact that Phillip Morris toys with their ingredients in order to get more people to buy their product and get the people who are buying to buy more/more often, and start experimenting with their own, based on the fact that humans have evolved to go after things that taste sweet, salty, and fatty. Get some combination of all three that makes it very hard to resist, because it triggers a dopamine response far beyond what can be found in nature (where sweet, salty, and fatty are rarely found together in a single food item), and you can increase revenue. Like I said, business 101. It's not tinfoil hat, it's smart business.

If this were true then a specific combination of ingredients/proportions would appear over and over and over in foods. Does that happen? Nope.

So why would a food manufacturer go to the trouble and expense of researching to discover a different combination individually for each of its products, even though the optimal one is going to be the same for all of them?

Dragonwolf

Not all drugs are black tar heroine or crack cocaine and come with got-hit-by-a-train withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol and prescription medications are still drugs, and they can still cause withdrawal symptoms. The withdrawal symptoms vary depending on the specific substance due to how it interacts with a given individual, how much of a tolerance they have, and how much (and for how long) they've been consuming the substance. Even for the same substance, the withdrawal symptoms can vary from person to person. Even things like Tylenol and Ibuprofen can cause what is known as "rebound," or a returning of the symptoms they were taken to relieve, as an effect of stopping them, if you take them too often or for too long.

LOL at thinking alcohol detox tremors or oxy withdrawl are like going without carbs for a few days.

LOL at reading comprehension fail.

I never once said that. In fact, I very specifically said that not all substances have the same withdrawal symptoms as the hard drugs that everyone thinks about when they see the term "withdrawal."

just gonna bold the part where you say that alcohol and pill don't have bad withdrawl symptoms.

also I think you would be happier if you had some toast.

a) I'm quite happy, actually. Though I'd prefer people actually address the links I provided instead of resorting to logical fallacies. I'll also gladly pass on the toast, I prefer having skin clear of both eczema and acne.

b) I never said that alcohol and pills don't have bad withdrawal symptoms. Even the part you bolded does not say that. In fact, my point was the complete opposite - one does not need to consume illegal drugs to experience addiction and/or withdrawal symptoms. Often, when people think of withdrawal, they think of the dramatic "I feel like I got hit by a freight train" type of withdrawal that may include vomiting, shaking, migraines, etc, regardless of the substance being withdrawn from (and said substance can be something even as common and legal as alcohol or even over the counter meds). My point was that withdrawal from any substance may not be that extreme, but that doesn't mean it's not still withdrawal.

ThickMcRunFast

Not all drugs are black tar heroine or crack cocaine and come with got-hit-by-a-train withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol and prescription medications are still drugs, and they can still cause withdrawal symptoms. The withdrawal symptoms vary depending on the specific substance due to how it interacts with a given individual, how much of a tolerance they have, and how much (and for how long) they've been consuming the substance. Even for the same substance, the withdrawal symptoms can vary from person to person. Even things like Tylenol and Ibuprofen can cause what is known as "rebound," or a returning of the symptoms they were taken to relieve, as an effect of stopping them, if you take them too often or for too long.

LOL at thinking alcohol detox tremors or oxy withdrawl are like going without carbs for a few days.

LOL at reading comprehension fail.

I never once said that. In fact, I very specifically said that not all substances have the same withdrawal symptoms as the hard drugs that everyone thinks about when they see the term "withdrawal."

just gonna bold the part where you say that alcohol and pill don't have bad withdrawl symptoms.

also I think you would be happier if you had some toast.

a) I'm quite happy, actually. Though I'd prefer people actually address the links I provided instead of resorting to logical fallacies. I'll also gladly pass on the toast, I prefer having skin clear of both eczema and acne.

b) I never said that alcohol and pills don't have bad withdrawal symptoms. Even the part you bolded does not say that. In fact, my point was the complete opposite - one does not need to consume illegal drugs to experience addiction and/or withdrawal symptoms. Often, when people think of withdrawal, they think of the dramatic "I feel like I got hit by a freight train" type of withdrawal that may include vomiting, shaking, migraines, etc, regardless of the substance being withdrawn from (and said substance can be something even as common and legal as alcohol or even over the counter meds). My point was that withdrawal from any substance may not be that extreme, but that doesn't mean it's not still withdrawal.

here's the thing - ingesting heroin all day is bad for your body. Ingesting carbs is not.

By your definition, the affects of taking anything out of your system is 'withdrawl' Dehydrated ? Nah, you're just going through "water withdrawl". Diabetic coma? "Insulin withdrawl".

The only reason you want to classify it as withdrawl is because you are hell-bent on classifying carbs/sugar as 'bad'. But I do not expect you to see the point.

Dragonwolf

so, let's see if i have this correct...

- processed food is bad.
- food companies purposely make processed food addictive.
- you eat "primal".

here's my conclusion...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/c/confirmation_bias.htm

Yes, I eat "primal." I do so for my own health reasons, since I've found it's worked best at clearing up my skin and helping me to lose weight (and yes, I understand the calories in vs calories out thing; the primal eating framework has made it easier for me to eat within my daily calorie allotment without feeling deprived or starved). How I eat has little bearing on what I've said here.

I'd love to see a little research that states otherwise the things I've said here, as opposed to just ad hominem attacks, which is primarily what I've received. Even searching "food addiction doesn't exist" didn't really turn up anything at all (most went to fuzzy-matched sex addiction and other not-really-related stuff), so I welcome any studies that you've found that says otherwise.

Why wouldn't a company want to tweak the sugar, salt, and fat content of its food to maximize the number of people that buy it? Like I said, it's good business sense.

You'll also see that I don't blame the foods for people continuing to eat them. The responsibility still lies with the person consuming a given item to alter their habit. That doesn't mean the item doesn't have addictive qualities to it. Again, anything that triggers a dopamine response has the potential to be addicting. How the person reacts to the item's trigger determines whether or not the person will actually get addicted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22647300
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2013/aug/20/food-addiction-exist-fat-sugar

jofjltncb6

Man.....where did this thread end up???

First the demonizing of sugar, now black tar heroin???? Not cool.

Just to be clear...

...your problem is with the demonization of black tar heroin, right?

Dragonwolf

Therefore, it's not much of a stretch, let alone tinfoil hat territory, to think that a company like Nestle, Nabisco, or Frito-Lay would look at the fact that Phillip Morris toys with their ingredients in order to get more people to buy their product and get the people who are buying to buy more/more often, and start experimenting with their own, based on the fact that humans have evolved to go after things that taste sweet, salty, and fatty. Get some combination of all three that makes it very hard to resist, because it triggers a dopamine response far beyond what can be found in nature (where sweet, salty, and fatty are rarely found together in a single food item), and you can increase revenue. Like I said, business 101. It's not tinfoil hat, it's smart business.

If this were true then a specific combination of ingredients/proportions would appear over and over and over in foods. Does that happen? Nope.

So why would a food manufacturer go to the trouble and expense of researching to discover a different combination individually for each of its products, even though the optimal one is going to be the same for all of them?

There are too many variables for it to be an exact science. This is especially the case when humans are involved. Different things trigger different people. For example, I like peanut butter, but I know some people that get hooked on it and will eat a whole jar of it in one sitting, while I'm content with a serving. Add chocolate into the mix, though, and I'm a goner.

That said, there are still specific ingredients that show up in most things. It's generally some combination of salt, fat (often in the form of partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, because they're cheap), and sugar (usually HFCS, because it's cheap and HFCS 90 tastes sweeter than sugar). This is largely the same combinations you'll find in "comfort food," too, though the store foods are more regimented in proportions (rather than "about a cup of this, about a teaspoon of that"). Food companies are simply leveraging the fact that humans are naturally attracted to sweet, salty, and fatty things. Combine them and you trigger a more intense reaction, prompting the consumer to favor that reaction over ones that provide a lesser reaction (it's also why people like to salt their food - it triggers a more intense reaction).

Besides, people like the illusion of choice, even when there isn't any (to compare - the auto industry is really only run by about half a dozen companies, despite the dozens of brands out there, and even The Big Three typically worked together to keep each other in business when one fell on hard times). It's good business practices to maintain that illusion of choice (for various reasons, not the least of which being brand recognition).

nomeejerome

so, let's see if i have this correct...

- processed food is bad.
- food companies purposely make processed food addictive.
- you eat "primal".

here's my conclusion...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/c/confirmation_bias.htm

Yes, I eat "primal." I do so for my own health reasons, since I've found it's worked best at clearing up my skin and helping me to lose weight (and yes, I understand the calories in vs calories out thing; the primal eating framework has made it easier for me to eat within my daily calorie allotment without feeling deprived or starved). How I eat has little bearing on what I've said here.

I'd love to see a little research that states otherwise the things I've said here, as opposed to just ad hominem attacks, which is primarily what I've received. Even searching "food addiction doesn't exist" didn't really turn up anything at all (most went to fuzzy-matched sex addiction and other not-really-related stuff), so I welcome any studies that you've found that says otherwise.

Why wouldn't a company want to tweak the sugar, salt, and fat content of its food to maximize the number of people that buy it? Like I said, it's good business sense.

You'll also see that I don't blame the foods for people continuing to eat them. The responsibility still lies with the person consuming a given item to alter their habit. That doesn't mean the item doesn't have addictive qualities to it. Again, anything that triggers a dopamine response has the potential to be addicting. How the person reacts to the item's trigger determines whether or not the person will actually get addicted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22647300
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2013/aug/20/food-addiction-exist-fat-sugar

"Food addiction" is not found in any diagnostic criteria for issues with food. Binge Eating Disorder was recently added to the DSM-V, however food addiction (or sugar addiction) is not recognized as a diagnosis because additional research needs to be completed before criteria could be formulated for future diagnostic purposes.

wild_wild_life

I'm so confused as to why this is an important argument.

LiftAllThePizzas

Therefore, it's not much of a stretch, let alone tinfoil hat territory, to think that a company like Nestle, Nabisco, or Frito-Lay would look at the fact that Phillip Morris toys with their ingredients in order to get more people to buy their product and get the people who are buying to buy more/more often, and start experimenting with their own, based on the fact that humans have evolved to go after things that taste sweet, salty, and fatty. Get some combination of all three that makes it very hard to resist, because it triggers a dopamine response far beyond what can be found in nature (where sweet, salty, and fatty are rarely found together in a single food item), and you can increase revenue. Like I said, business 101. It's not tinfoil hat, it's smart business.

If this were true then a specific combination of ingredients/proportions would appear over and over and over in foods. Does that happen? Nope.

So why would a food manufacturer go to the trouble and expense of researching to discover a different combination individually for each of its products, even though the optimal one is going to be the same for all of them?

There are too many variables for it to be an exact science. This is especially the case when humans are involved. Different things trigger different people. For example, I like peanut butter, but I know some people that get hooked on it and will eat a whole jar of it in one sitting, while I'm content with a serving. Add chocolate into the mix, though, and I'm a goner.

That said, there are still specific ingredients that show up in most things. It's generally some combination of salt, fat (often in the form of partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, because they're cheap), and sugar (usually HFCS, because it's cheap and HFCS 90 tastes sweeter than sugar). This is largely the same combinations you'll find in "comfort food," too, though the store foods are more regimented in proportions (rather than "about a cup of this, about a teaspoon of that"). Food companies are simply leveraging the fact that humans are naturally attracted to sweet, salty, and fatty things. Combine them and you trigger a more intense reaction, prompting the consumer to favor that reaction over ones that provide a lesser reaction (it's also why people like to salt their food - it triggers a more intense reaction).

Besides, people like the illusion of choice, even when there isn't any (to compare - the auto industry is really only run by about half a dozen companies, despite the dozens of brands out there, and even The Big Three typically worked together to keep each other in business when one fell on hard times). It's good business practices to maintain that illusion of choice (for various reasons, not the least of which being brand recognition).

You hit on the point but completely glossed over it. The important part is that the ingredients they use:
1- are cheaper
2- taste better

Nowhere in that equation is there any evidence of engineering anything to be "addictive" or control the behavior of consumers.

Any business that uses "equivalent but more expensive" ingredients, or ones that don't taste as good isn't going to survive competition. This hardly constitutes a mind-control conspiracy.

jofjltncb6

I'm so confused as to why this is an important argument.

Because sugar...

...it's da debil.