"The problem with sugar is your problem with sugar"

jayrudq

Oh Sara. Naive Sara of 25 posts. Here lies the age old MFP battle. Those who can't and those who not only insist you can, but do so in the nicest (I ate donuts everyday and went to McDonalds, drank diet soda and lost weight) way.
Yes, there are those of us who are referred lovingly to as "special snowflakes" who for some reason psychological, biological, physiological, don't do well with processed carbs and sugar. They trigger us, they sabotage us, they make us miserable and fat (they is really us, but the way). We choose to lose weight by restricting them - not eliminating them. And, it works. Long term and short term. We don't fall off the wagon, we don't feel deprived, we are actually happy, healthy, and losing weight without them. I don't fantasize about oreos. And occasionally I eat candy (which actually reinforces my choices because I usually feel sick and sleepy). Paleo, Keto, Low Carb, on and on. There are lots of groups on this site that feel the way you do. Join a few.

drams5

bump for later...thanks!

maillemaker

This article is mostly horse poop.

Am I making the two sides clear? I am fine with telling someone to cut out something in particular if it’s hindering their progress. But I’ll tell them exactly why. Not that that food “is the problem,” the problem is them with that food. And that can change when their relationship with food changes. If someone has to get all ice cream out of the house because it’s attached to a binge, then do so! But it’s not the ice cream.

The author is making the obvious and correct statement that there is probably nothing chemically addictive or unhealthy about sugar.

The author is making the obvious and correct statement that some people have self-control issues with food, namely sugary foods.

But then the author says that it's not the food that is the problem, it's the person eating it!

Well sure. That's like saying it's not it's not the gambling that is the problem, it's the person gambling! Or that it's not the internet that is the problem, it's the person with the internet addiction!

It's nice to say " If someone has to get all ice cream out of the house because it’s attached to a binge, then do so! But it’s not the ice cream." and thus blame the person eating it, and that's fine. Ultimately, every addiction is the fault of the person addicted.

But in the end, it doesn't change anything. Whether you want to blame the eater or the food, in the end, the eater has to give up the food if they want to break the addictive behavior.

The author says:

Nowadays I still like food. A lot! But there’s a difference. I don’t experience cravings, binge cycles, food-guilt, food-avoidance/fear or mental hunger. Food occupies a VERY small part of my life, whereas it used to be a huge part in the planning, preparation, shopping, worrying, thinking and denying.

But she never says how she got there.

Here she says it again:

Well, look at that sentence right there. This tastes good! Eating palatable food does trigger the same areas that are lit up in response to other addictive substances that make us feel good. Like drugs. And sex. And adrenaline. And massage. And French kisses. Emotional eating is just that. Emotional. If your eating habits are disproportionately tied to emotional triggers, sure you can make a case for food/sugar addiction. But it’s not really the food per se. It’s your brain processing the experience of the food, which is related to the food itself. It’s a feedback loop. And that feedback loop is in your control. I still eat whatever foods I like on a regular basis, but the cycle is different. I understand how my body uses food, and can adjust my intake appropriately for whatever I want and still show ample love to ice cream on a regular basis.

Conclusion

No, sugar is not THE problem.

The end.

But again she doesn't say how she broke her addiction.

This 'article" is basically just a very long-winded diatribe by another person who does not understand behavioral addictions to food, and she provides absolutely no insight on how one should break it, other than to grudgingly admit that if you can't control eating foods then maybe you should cut them out of your diet, even though the bulk of the message is that you shouldn't have to do that.

Holly_Roman_Empire

Love this article. Makes me laugh inside at "clean eaters."

maillemaker

I do not agree to most parts of this article. I'm one of those who can't have "just one bite that may or may not fit into my macro" and I hate people that love bashing other people for "lacking self control" and saying things like "a well rounded diet consisting of everything works for everyone".

I've never been fat, hell, I've never even been over-weight - and even though I today can eat carbs with moderation there was i time i couldn't. A time where eating carbs led me into a vicious binging/purging cycle that seemed to have no end. and yes - I'm feeling absolutely comfortable "blaming" the carbs for this. because they have never given me the same satisfaction and "without hunger feeling" that I've gotten from fats and proteins. Before, carbs just wanted me to eat more - despite being full.

And speaking of how many that have successfully lost weight on a low-carb diet i know I'm not alone with these feelings.

So people saying "everything is okay in moderation" just speaks for themselves-

I agree with you 100%, Sara.

This author, like many people here, do not understand that moderation takes at least 10 times more willpower than abstaining does.

Can you eat Oreo cookies and loose weight? Of course you can.

If you buy yourself a tray of Oreo cookies (50 calories per cookie) and can limit yourself to 3 or 4 cookies a day, you're fine. Many people, like myself, can't do that. When I crack open a tray of Oreo cookies, I will eat one whole column of those cookies by myself. That's about 20 cookies? That's about 1000 calories - over half my daily allowance of calories.

whierd

I do not agree to most parts of this article. I'm one of those who can't have "just one bite that may or may not fit into my macro" and I hate people that love bashing other people for "lacking self control" and saying things like "a well rounded diet consisting of everything works for everyone".

I've never been fat, hell, I've never even been over-weight - and even though I today can eat carbs with moderation there was i time i couldn't. A time where eating carbs led me into a vicious binging/purging cycle that seemed to have no end. and yes - I'm feeling absolutely comfortable "blaming" the carbs for this. because they have never given me the same satisfaction and "without hunger feeling" that I've gotten from fats and proteins. Before, carbs just wanted me to eat more - despite being full.

And speaking of how many that have successfully lost weight on a low-carb diet i know I'm not alone with these feelings.

So people saying "everything is okay in moderation" just speaks for themselves-

Like Sara quoted here, i am not overweight----but i do believe SUGAR is 100% to be avoided by most people for the most obvious reasons, it has no nutrients and it controls them more than they control it.
With all respect to the OP and to Joy ( author of the link ) , i just fon't what works for me can work for everyone. For many, sugar sets up a cycle of craving they can't handle.

Why is so much sugar in all processed food? Why are we consuming 20 or more teaspoons of sugar every day w/o choosing to do so? Personally, after much reading, i'm pretty sure we dhould only consume naturally occuring sugar, such as in fruit.....????????????????

Not due solely to sugar but we know Obesity is occuring in epidemic proportions

---

sugar is as hard a habit to walk away from as any other addictive substance.

Sugar IS a nutrient. It is a carbohydrate. By your logic, fat and protein is not a nutrient.

Sugar is in processed foods because it tastes good. And you ARE choosing whether or not to consume 20 or more teaspoons of sugar. And...uh...sugarcane and sugar beets are both naturally occuring.

maillemaker

The bottom line is this: Weight loss requires willpower. Eating in delicious, tempting foods in moderation takes far more willpower than abstinence. Diet failures are due to failures of willpower. So attempting to eat delicious, tempting foods in moderation may be a great way to sabotage your diet.

hookilau

Oh Sara. Naive Sara of 25 posts. Here lies the age old MFP battle. Those who can't and those who not only insist you can, but do so in the nicest (I ate donuts everyday and went to McDonalds, drank diet soda and lost weight) way.
Yes, there are those of us who are referred lovingly to as "special snowflakes" who for some reason psychological, biological, physiological, don't do well with processed carbs and sugar. They trigger us, they sabotage us, they make us miserable and fat (they is really us, but the way). We choose to lose weight by restricting them - not eliminating them. And, it works. Long term and short term. We don't fall off the wagon, we don't feel deprived, we are actually happy, healthy, and losing weight without them. I don't fantasize about oreos. And occasionally I eat candy (which actually reinforces my choices because I usually feel sick and sleepy). Paleo, Keto, Low Carb, on and on. There are lots of groups on this site that feel the way you do. Join a few.

:drinker:
that's a good post there!...you hit on all the major points, and in under a page :blushing:
very well said :smokin:

Holly_Roman_Empire

The bottom line is this: Weight loss requires willpower. Eating in delicious, tempting foods in moderation takes far more willpower than abstinence. Diet failures are due to failures of willpower. So attempting to eat delicious, tempting foods in moderation may be a great way to sabotage your diet.

I get what you're saying, and I agree that some people do better with abstinence than with moderation. However, the article specifically targets people that say sugar is evil and makes them fat. Also I think one of the points was to say that cutting out a whole macro like carbs isn't healthy, the same way that cutting out all proteins or all fats isn't healthy.

nomeejerome

This article is mostly horse poop.

Am I making the two sides clear? I am fine with telling someone to cut out something in particular if it’s hindering their progress. But I’ll tell them exactly why. Not that that food “is the problem,” the problem is them with that food. And that can change when their relationship with food changes. If someone has to get all ice cream out of the house because it’s attached to a binge, then do so! But it’s not the ice cream.

The author is making the obvious and correct statement that there is probably nothing chemically addictive or unhealthy about sugar.

The author is making the obvious and correct statement that some people have self-control issues with food, namely sugary foods.

But then the author says that it's not the food that is the problem, it's the person eating it!

Well sure. That's like saying it's not it's not the gambling that is the problem, it's the person gambling! Or that it's not the internet that is the problem, it's the person with the internet addiction!

It's nice to say " If someone has to get all ice cream out of the house because it’s attached to a binge, then do so! But it’s not the ice cream." and thus blame the person eating it, and that's fine. Ultimately, every addiction is the fault of the person addicted.

But in the end, it doesn't change anything. Whether you want to blame the eater or the food, in the end, the eater has to give up the food if they want to break the addictive behavior.

The author says:

Nowadays I still like food. A lot! But there’s a difference. I don’t experience cravings, binge cycles, food-guilt, food-avoidance/fear or mental hunger. Food occupies a VERY small part of my life, whereas it used to be a huge part in the planning, preparation, shopping, worrying, thinking and denying.

But she never says how she got there.

Here she says it again:

Well, look at that sentence right there. This tastes good! Eating palatable food does trigger the same areas that are lit up in response to other addictive substances that make us feel good. Like drugs. And sex. And adrenaline. And massage. And French kisses. Emotional eating is just that. Emotional. If your eating habits are disproportionately tied to emotional triggers, sure you can make a case for food/sugar addiction. But it’s not really the food per se. It’s your brain processing the experience of the food, which is related to the food itself. It’s a feedback loop. And that feedback loop is in your control. I still eat whatever foods I like on a regular basis, but the cycle is different. I understand how my body uses food, and can adjust my intake appropriately for whatever I want and still show ample love to ice cream on a regular basis.

Conclusion

No, sugar is not THE problem.

The end.

But again she doesn't say how she broke her addiction.

This 'article" is basically just a very long-winded diatribe by another person who does not understand behavioral addictions to food, and she provides absolutely no insight on how one should break it, other than to grudgingly admit that if you can't control eating foods then maybe you should cut them out of your diet, even though the bulk of the message is that you shouldn't have to do that.

See the bold. This is important to note because you pop into threads all of the time with limited understanding of addiction and behavioral health. On numerous occasions you have attempted to use diagnostic criteria for gambling addiction (which was provided for you in a previous thread) and have applied it to other issues. This is wrong. While I appreciate your passion for educating others, it may be a good idea to fully understand addiction and behavioral health before doing so.

psuLemon

Bump to read later.

jeannemarie333

looks good - bump for later

whierd

The bottom line is this: Weight loss requires willpower. Eating in delicious, tempting foods in moderation takes far more willpower than abstinence. Diet failures are due to failures of willpower. So attempting to eat delicious, tempting foods in moderation may be a great way to sabotage your diet.

It requires better habits. I don't sit around struggling all day.

vjw221

What i got from the article was...... Sugar is not the problem... so just sayinf i'm going to not eat sugar and expect weightloss won't work. Learngin and understanding how things truely play a roll in nutrition and being educated will help in the long run. Sugar is not the devil excess is the devil. end of story. and moderation will help people who try and go cold turkey and fail because they get consumed by the fact that they are eliminating an ingredient and then dissaspointed when they slip when in the long run having sugar won't ruin your goal for healthier life or weightoss. The point is that the thought process that eliminating sugar from your life is some magical cure is false and misleading and a setup for failure,.

BrainyBurro

I do not agree to most parts of this article. I'm one of those who can't have "just one bite that may or may not fit into my macro" and I hate people that love bashing other people for "lacking self control" and saying things like "a well rounded diet consisting of everything works for everyone".

I've never been fat, hell, I've never even been over-weight - and even though I today can eat carbs with moderation there was i time i couldn't. A time where eating carbs led me into a vicious binging/purging cycle that seemed to have no end. and yes - I'm feeling absolutely comfortable "blaming" the carbs for this. because they have never given me the same satisfaction and "without hunger feeling" that I've gotten from fats and proteins. Before, carbs just wanted me to eat more - despite being full.

And speaking of how many that have successfully lost weight on a low-carb diet i know I'm not alone with these feelings.

So people saying "everything is okay in moderation" just speaks for themselves-

I agree with you 100%, Sara.

This author, like many people here, do not understand that moderation takes at least 10 times more willpower than abstaining does.

Can you eat Oreo cookies and loose weight? Of course you can.

If you buy yourself a tray of Oreo cookies (50 calories per cookie) and can limit yourself to 3 or 4 cookies a day, you're fine. Many people, like myself, can't do that. When I crack open a tray of Oreo cookies, I will eat one whole column of those cookies by myself. That's about 20 cookies? That's about 1000 calories - over half my daily allowance of calories.

strawman argument is strawman.

controlling hunger is about satiation.

if you eat filling foods all day and meet your micro- and macro-nutrional needs, there is no reason you can't top off your calories at the end of the day with just a handful of Oreos without feeling the need to eat the whole bag. lots of people do just fine following that process (IIFYM).

it's a poor workman who blames his tools.

RunningRichelle

Oh Sara. Naive Sara of 25 posts. Here lies the age old MFP battle. Those who can't and those who not only insist you can, but do so in the nicest (I ate donuts everyday and went to McDonalds, drank diet soda and lost weight) way.
Yes, there are those of us who are referred lovingly to as "special snowflakes" who for some reason psychological, biological, physiological, don't do well with processed carbs and sugar. They trigger us, they sabotage us, they make us miserable and fat (they is really us, but the way). We choose to lose weight by restricting them - not eliminating them. And, it works. Long term and short term. We don't fall off the wagon, we don't feel deprived, we are actually happy, healthy, and losing weight without them. I don't fantasize about oreos. And occasionally I eat candy (which actually reinforces my choices because I usually feel sick and sleepy). Paleo, Keto, Low Carb, on and on. There are lots of groups on this site that feel the way you do. Join a few.

Yep. Honey in my tea at night and some fruit during the day is enough for me. I don't bother with donuts and whatever else, because these things do make me sleepy and not on my A game. Not to mention the uncomfortable headsplosion/sugar rush I get now when I eat more than about 15g of sugar at once.

Someone snarked at someone else about cane sugar not being natural- I'm fairly certain I read in the recent National Geographic article on sugar that the difference between the cane sugar plant and refined white sugar is comparable to the difference between the coca leaf and cocaine- one is a very highly refined, more potent version of the other.

Holly_Roman_Empire

so you learned moderation...but moderation is impossible to learn?

It depends. I still get very triggered and hungry by carbs in general -but when you can eat 3000+ calories without gaining weight it doesn't really matter. So I probably still haven't learned moderation - I just, personally, deal with it differently. My point is that people losing weight preferably should find tools that will help them losing the weight without having to battle obstacles that will make the task impossible. Sugar cravings can be one of those obstacles and I think it's ridiculous to say things "there's no proof that sugar is addictive" and "sugar is ok in moderation" when the majority of people can't deal with it without over-eating.

You do a pretty awesome job at contradicting yourself. No one really needs to argue with you. You are your own worst enemy and full of excuses.

:laugh:

BeachGingerOnTheRocks

I do not agree to most parts of this article. I'm one of those who can't have "just one bite that may or may not fit into my macro" and I hate people that love bashing other people for "lacking self control" and saying things like "a well rounded diet consisting of everything works for everyone".

I've never been fat, hell, I've never even been over-weight - and even though I today can eat carbs with moderation there was i time i couldn't. A time where eating carbs led me into a vicious binging/purging cycle that seemed to have no end. and yes - I'm feeling absolutely comfortable "blaming" the carbs for this. because they have never given me the same satisfaction and "without hunger feeling" that I've gotten from fats and proteins. Before, carbs just wanted me to eat more - despite being full.

And speaking of how many that have successfully lost weight on a low-carb diet i know I'm not alone with these feelings.

So people saying "everything is okay in moderation" just speaks for themselves-

I agree with you 100%, Sara.

This author, like many people here, do not understand that moderation takes at least 10 times more willpower than abstaining does.

Can you eat Oreo cookies and loose weight? Of course you can.

If you buy yourself a tray of Oreo cookies (50 calories per cookie) and can limit yourself to 3 or 4 cookies a day, you're fine. Many people, like myself, can't do that. When I crack open a tray of Oreo cookies, I will eat one whole column of those cookies by myself. That's about 20 cookies? That's about 1000 calories - over half my daily allowance of calories.

But it isn't the oreo that is the problem, it is your ("your" in this case and throughout this post is used as a generic pronoun, not as a direct statement to you personally) inability to limit yourself. Whether emotional or what, it is up to you to make a decision on how many oreos you eat. Yes, I can eat just one oreo. I got there over a three year period. How? I told myself I was going to eat one. I ate one, and I put the package away and did something else. After a while, I stopped going back for "just one more." The weight came off slowly, but it came off. I've been through the whole deprivation thing, the whole clean eating thing, and the sugar is the devil nonsense. The hardest thing about a person's relationship with food is the recognition that the fault lies with the person consuming the food. If you overeat, it's your fault. The food doesn't jump into your mouth.

It is a matter of disciplining yourself. Like getting up and going to the gym. It sucks at first, but if you do it long enough, it becomes second nature. Reteaching yourself how to treat food is the same thing. It's all a matter of discipline. Eating enough healthy food to get your micronutrients and saving room for treats is a blessing that comes through food education.

Mcgrawhaha

<~~~~~~~~THIS GIRL 's SUGAR!!!