Paleo SHIFT
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We weren't "designed" for any of those things. See, everyone can play the what humans were designed for game.im glad that the people base their diet off of a time when the average age of death was 30
they lived in a time when they didn't have proper shelter...or grocery stores to buy food..they had to hunt...and escape from bears and crap...and didn't have doctors. No **** they live short lives.
We also weren't designed to sit in cubicles starring at computer screens all day filling out usless forms and listening to eight different bosses droning on about TPS reports.
What, didn't you get that memo?0 -
We weren't "designed" for any of those things. See, everyone can play the what humans were designed for game.im glad that the people base their diet off of a time when the average age of death was 30
they lived in a time when they didn't have proper shelter...or grocery stores to buy food..they had to hunt...and escape from bears and crap...and didn't have doctors. No **** they live short lives.
We also weren't designed to sit in cubicles starring at computer screens all day filling out usless forms and listening to eight different bosses droning on about TPS reports.
What, didn't you get that memo?
0 -
im glad that the people base their diet off of a time when the average age of death was 30
they lived in a time when they didn't have proper shelter...or grocery stores to buy food..they had to hunt...and escape from bears and crap...and didn't have doctors. No **** they live short lives.
Ugh... and seriously... nobody believes they are REALLY eating like a caveman.
Look, the biggest naysayers of the Paleo diet are saying that our ancestors didn't really eat what we call "Paleo". Their diet was dependent on weather, geography, and that most of the foods that we consider Paleo, like super market sweet potatoes and apples didn't exist back then. But rarely do you see any criticism about the health benefits of eating Paleo. Mostly the criticism comes from academics that are in anthropology, archaeology (and similar fields of study) and are basically saying "NO NO NOPE, NO! That isn't what cavemen ate! " Great. We will just change the simple name of Paleo to "The additive free, preservative free, dairy free, grain free, gluten free, legume free, processed food free diet" Or we could just use the name Paleo. Dunno, maybe I am just being lazy and don't want to use a name that long.
< eats processed foods, grains, gluten, dairy, etc and is healthy with 13% body fat...
how about just changing to the "we say all these foods are bad" diet...
Please tell me where in my original post that I said any foods are "bad". I didn't. What I DID say is that one could start by replacing pasta with vegetables. I didn't say pasta was bad. In my personal experience, when you remove some of the quick/easy and less nutritious foods (for example pasta) from your plate, you open up room for things like vegetables and healthy fats...etc.
I was not replying to you ...but thanks for checking in
I was replying to the other person that said "We will just change the simple name of Paleo to "The additive free, preservative free, dairy free, grain free, gluten free, legume free, processed food free diet"
why is whole wheat pasta not nutritious?
LESS nutritious. I guess it depends on your definition of nutritious, but I think veggies have more vitamins & minerals per calorie than pasta?0 -
We weren't "designed" for any of those things. See, everyone can play the what humans were designed for game.im glad that the people base their diet off of a time when the average age of death was 30
they lived in a time when they didn't have proper shelter...or grocery stores to buy food..they had to hunt...and escape from bears and crap...and didn't have doctors. No **** they live short lives.
We also weren't designed to sit in cubicles starring at computer screens all day filling out usless forms and listening to eight different bosses droning on about TPS reports.
What, didn't you get that memo?
0 -
Epigenetics. Also, New Scientist has explained why from that scientific perspective, paleo is nonsense... http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929311.200-health-myths-we-should-live-and-eat-like-cavemen.html Here's another from Scientific American. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-paleo-diet-half-baked-how-hunter-gatherer-really-eat
END OF QUOTE
This. Seconded. I don't eat paleo, not attacking paleo, just challenging the statement that our body can't make adaptations very quickly. Look, sure our DNA is essentially identical to our ancestors. It's almost identical to a monkeys. In fact the DNA in every cell of my body is identical (barring mutations of course) and yet I have lungs, a heart, kidneys, skin, etc., and there are fundamental differences in those organs. Epigenetics-it's a huge part in what turns genes on and off, what allows certain proteins to be made. Just because our DNA is the same doesn't mean it is expressed the same way. Epigenetics is also being studied/shown to be a way in which rapid evolutionary changes may take place in as quickly as one generation-usually in response to environmental factors. I imagine changes in diet might apply here.
On the flip side of that, I read a little about this in the book Primal Body/Primal Mind by Nora Gedgaudas. She talked about studies (in cats) that show that the effects of poor nutrition show up in later generations. Basically, your mother and grandmother's diets could be affecting your health today. Very interesting!0 -
Honestly, why all the outrage and eagerness to bash Paleo/Primal lifestyles? Is there really anything wrong with a lifestyle that promotes clean natural foods, more natural forms of movement, and otherwise making attempts to live healthy lives?
From what I've read here, in this thread and others on this forum, most people have VERY limited ideas of what Paleo/Primal living really is; do half of you even know WHY we cut out grains, legumes, sugar, processed foods and sometimes dairy? Or did you just see the headline and go "well that's stupid, cause conventional wisdom has always said that ****'s good for us."? Most of the people I've seen posting on this topic who are naysayers have done almost no research into Paleo/Primal themselves, while you'll find that those who really follow the lifestyle have done a ton of research and understand why it is they're avoiding these foods most of the time.
You wanna know why we avoid eating many grains? For many reasons, but primarily because:
1) it messes with the insulin and hormonal balances of your body, since grains are largely carbs and get converted to glucose, which insulin then shuttles out of your bloodstream and, if you're not using it for a workout of some kind, will be stored as fat. We eat too many carbs resulting in more insulin and hormones being in use than nature intended our bodies to have; the insulin response wasn't intended to deal with 200+ grams of carbs in a single day! Humans mainly only had access to carbs in the source of fruits, veggies and tubers in nature, since grains grew in such limited and largely uneatable quantities.
2) the nutrients in grains aren't as bioavailable as they are in more natural foods like fruits and veggies, and high phytate levels in grains has even resulted in some mineral deficiencies according to some studies. Bottom line, any nutrients you can get in grains you can get better somewhere else.
3) grains wreak havoc on our digestive systems. Gluten is obvious; a growing number of people are finding out their gluten-intolerant, and scientists figure even more of us are negatively reacting in ways we don't realize aren't normal, since we've been eating grains since we were little. Grains also have lectins, natural toxins that are found in especially high quantities in a lot of our common grains, which cause similar intolerances as gluten and can also inhibit the repair of the GI tract, leading to opportunities for materials from the digestive tract to wander through the rest of the body - some scientists even think this is what is responsible for some autoimmune diseases.
As Mark from marksdailyapple.com says, "Unnecessary at best, but flat out unhealthy at worst, they’re not the wholesome staples they’re made out to be."
(Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/definitive-guide-grains/#ixzz2i6pvfNGj)
The bottom line is, yeah, it won't kill you to eat grains, legumes, dairy, and all that other stuff sometimes; Paleo/Primal is really about making informed choices. Know that grains aren't a superfood like we're told, and eat them with that in mind. If you choose to continue eating a Standard American Diet full of them, at least you know the risks, just like we now know the risks about eating things even conventional wisdom says is crap - like fast food, junk food, etc.
So don't bash people for their informed choices; people all do Paleo/Primal in different ways, and that's how it should be. If you do the research and test it out on yourself and find that dairy doesn't cause you any problems, feel free to eat dairy. Same for anything else. Primal/Paleo isn't about perfection, but knowing as much as possible and making the best choices for yourself from there.
I'm Primal and I don't eat organic, or grassfed - I'm a struggling student and don't have the money or access to a wide variety of these things. This doesn't mean I give up or am somehow failing at being Primal; I try to eat mainly meats and veggies, use healthy fats, eat fruit, seeds and nuts for snacks, and try to avoid processed foods as much as possible. I don't go in for all those Paleo/Primal/gluten-free substitutes, because 1) most are still highly processed and thus full of crap and 2) the point of this diet isn't just to replace your normal spaghetti with fake spaghetti and call it a day. Is it healthier? Probably. Is it an acceptable choice? Of course; everyone does what's best for them. Do I occasionally go out to eat with friends and get French fries and a burger? Sure I do! And that's totally FINE; I know they're not the healthiest choices but I made the choice with full knowledge, and that's how we should all eat. Primal/Paleo is about questioning conventional knowledge for the truth, and focusing on what makes up the happiest and healthiest we can be; it's not about just crossing off food groups and leaving it at that.0 -
Humans evolved eating about 400 grams of carbs a day on average.
As for bioavailability, cooking pretty much solves that.
Same with lectins, only a concern in uncooked food. Lectins also happen to be rather necessary for many functions in human biology.
Your entire argument is based on incorrect, cherry picked information. Considering your source, that's not at all surprising.0 -
Once you reach the amount of vitamins and minerals your body needs, there are exactly ZERO health benefits to consuming extra.im glad that the people base their diet off of a time when the average age of death was 30
they lived in a time when they didn't have proper shelter...or grocery stores to buy food..they had to hunt...and escape from bears and crap...and didn't have doctors. No **** they live short lives.
Ugh... and seriously... nobody believes they are REALLY eating like a caveman.
Look, the biggest naysayers of the Paleo diet are saying that our ancestors didn't really eat what we call "Paleo". Their diet was dependent on weather, geography, and that most of the foods that we consider Paleo, like super market sweet potatoes and apples didn't exist back then. But rarely do you see any criticism about the health benefits of eating Paleo. Mostly the criticism comes from academics that are in anthropology, archaeology (and similar fields of study) and are basically saying "NO NO NOPE, NO! That isn't what cavemen ate! " Great. We will just change the simple name of Paleo to "The additive free, preservative free, dairy free, grain free, gluten free, legume free, processed food free diet" Or we could just use the name Paleo. Dunno, maybe I am just being lazy and don't want to use a name that long.
< eats processed foods, grains, gluten, dairy, etc and is healthy with 13% body fat...
how about just changing to the "we say all these foods are bad" diet...
Please tell me where in my original post that I said any foods are "bad". I didn't. What I DID say is that one could start by replacing pasta with vegetables. I didn't say pasta was bad. In my personal experience, when you remove some of the quick/easy and less nutritious foods (for example pasta) from your plate, you open up room for things like vegetables and healthy fats...etc.
I was not replying to you ...but thanks for checking in
I was replying to the other person that said "We will just change the simple name of Paleo to "The additive free, preservative free, dairy free, grain free, gluten free, legume free, processed food free diet"
why is whole wheat pasta not nutritious?
LESS nutritious. I guess it depends on your definition of nutritious, but I think veggies have more vitamins & minerals per calorie than pasta?0 -
The argument was that grains weren't necessarily the best choice, not that it wasn't a choice - did you even read the entirety of my post or just notice that it was Primal friendly and scoff at it?
I'm curious what source you found that said that pre-agricultural revolution humans ate 300+ carbs a day; I haven't come across that study myself. And pointing to a study that confirms your argument isn't cherry picking, it's called bolstering; if there are studies to the contrary then fine, point to them - don't argue that the other studies are somehow invalid.
Food science isn't all that great of a science, and if some people are healthy and happy without grains then no one should be allowed to criticize them for it, or for sharing a solution that's worked for them.
And yes, maybe once you've met your minimum quotas for nutrients it doesn't matter if you get other nutrients, but that doesn't mean your food suddenly stops having an effect on your body. Food always affects you, and I personally believe you'll be healthier eating a diet mainly composed of meats and veggies than eating primarily grains and processed foods. If you disagree that's fine; each person's lifestyle is unique.0 -
I'm curious what source you found that said that pre-agricultural revolution humans ate 300+ carbs a day; I haven't come across that study myself.
The oldest hunter-gatherers did not consume much animal flesh - the groups that do consume large amounts of animal flesh are (ironically) recent adaptions. Fishing is also a relatively recent development, which means the bulk of the daily intake had to come from plants, which are primarily carbs. Given a daily intake of 2000-3000 calories, that in turn means carb intake was in the "hundreds" of grams per day.
Arguing for a meat-heavy diet is exactly the same logic as arguing for a potato-chip-heavy diet.0 -
Honestly, why all the outrage and eagerness to bash Paleo/Primal lifestyles? Is there really anything wrong with a lifestyle that promotes clean natural foods, more natural forms of movement, and otherwise making attempts to live healthy lives?
From what I've read here, in this thread and others on this forum, most people have VERY limited ideas of what Paleo/Primal living really is; do half of you even know WHY we cut out grains, legumes, sugar, processed foods and sometimes dairy? Or did you just see the headline and go "well that's stupid, cause conventional wisdom has always said that ****'s good for us."? Most of the people I've seen posting on this topic who are naysayers have done almost no research into Paleo/Primal themselves, while you'll find that those who really follow the lifestyle have done a ton of research and understand why it is they're avoiding these foods most of the time.
You wanna know why we avoid eating many grains? For many reasons, but primarily because:
1) it messes with the insulin and hormonal balances of your body, since grains are largely carbs and get converted to glucose, which insulin then shuttles out of your bloodstream and, if you're not using it for a workout of some kind, will be stored as fat. We eat too many carbs resulting in more insulin and hormones being in use than nature intended our bodies to have; the insulin response wasn't intended to deal with 200+ grams of carbs in a single day! Humans mainly only had access to carbs in the source of fruits, veggies and tubers in nature, since grains grew in such limited and largely uneatable quantities.
2) the nutrients in grains aren't as bioavailable as they are in more natural foods like fruits and veggies, and high phytate levels in grains has even resulted in some mineral deficiencies according to some studies. Bottom line, any nutrients you can get in grains you can get better somewhere else.
3) grains wreak havoc on our digestive systems. Gluten is obvious; a growing number of people are finding out their gluten-intolerant, and scientists figure even more of us are negatively reacting in ways we don't realize aren't normal, since we've been eating grains since we were little. Grains also have lectins, natural toxins that are found in especially high quantities in a lot of our common grains, which cause similar intolerances as gluten and can also inhibit the repair of the GI tract, leading to opportunities for materials from the digestive tract to wander through the rest of the body - some scientists even think this is what is responsible for some autoimmune diseases.
As Mark from marksdailyapple.com says, "Unnecessary at best, but flat out unhealthy at worst, they’re not the wholesome staples they’re made out to be."
(Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/definitive-guide-grains/#ixzz2i6pvfNGj)
The bottom line is, yeah, it won't kill you to eat grains, legumes, dairy, and all that other stuff sometimes; Paleo/Primal is really about making informed choices. Know that grains aren't a superfood like we're told, and eat them with that in mind. If you choose to continue eating a Standard American Diet full of them, at least you know the risks, just like we now know the risks about eating things even conventional wisdom says is crap - like fast food, junk food, etc.
So don't bash people for their informed choices; people all do Paleo/Primal in different ways, and that's how it should be. If you do the research and test it out on yourself and find that dairy doesn't cause you any problems, feel free to eat dairy. Same for anything else. Primal/Paleo isn't about perfection, but knowing as much as possible and making the best choices for yourself from there.
I'm Primal and I don't eat organic, or grassfed - I'm a struggling student and don't have the money or access to a wide variety of these things. This doesn't mean I give up or am somehow failing at being Primal; I try to eat mainly meats and veggies, use healthy fats, eat fruit, seeds and nuts for snacks, and try to avoid processed foods as much as possible. I don't go in for all those Paleo/Primal/gluten-free substitutes, because 1) most are still highly processed and thus full of crap and 2) the point of this diet isn't just to replace your normal spaghetti with fake spaghetti and call it a day. Is it healthier? Probably. Is it an acceptable choice? Of course; everyone does what's best for them. Do I occasionally go out to eat with friends and get French fries and a burger? Sure I do! And that's totally FINE; I know they're not the healthiest choices but I made the choice with full knowledge, and that's how we should all eat. Primal/Paleo is about questioning conventional knowledge for the truth, and focusing on what makes up the happiest and healthiest we can be; it's not about just crossing off food groups and leaving it at that.
:flowerforyou:0 -
Food science isn't all that great of a science, and if some people are healthy and happy without grains then no one should be allowed to criticize them for it, or for sharing a solution that's worked for them.
But... you know NOT eating grains leads to orthorexia. Or say "they" say.
I wish there was an emoticon that rolled it's eyes.0 -
I'm curious what source you found that said that pre-agricultural revolution humans ate 300+ carbs a day; I haven't come across that study myself.
The oldest hunter-gatherers did not consume much animal flesh - the groups that do consume large amounts of animal flesh are (ironically) recent adaptions. Fishing is also a relatively recent development, which means the bulk of the daily intake had to come from plants, which are primarily carbs. Given a daily intake of 2000-3000 calories, that in turn means carb intake was in the "hundreds" of grams per day.
Arguing for a meat-heavy diet is exactly the same logic as arguing for a potato-chip-heavy diet.
Who is arguing for meat heavy? Most paleo/primal eaters eat mostly fat, followed by protein and then carbs (and choose to the bulk of their carbs from veggies, fruits, tubers & nuts).0 -
You didn't point to any studies.The argument was that grains weren't necessarily the best choice, not that it wasn't a choice - did you even read the entirety of my post or just notice that it was Primal friendly and scoff at it?
I'm curious what source you found that said that pre-agricultural revolution humans ate 300+ carbs a day; I haven't come across that study myself. And pointing to a study that confirms your argument isn't cherry picking, it's called bolstering; if there are studies to the contrary then fine, point to them - don't argue that the other studies are somehow invalid.
Food science isn't all that great of a science, and if some people are healthy and happy without grains then no one should be allowed to criticize them for it, or for sharing a solution that's worked for them.
And yes, maybe once you've met your minimum quotas for nutrients it doesn't matter if you get other nutrients, but that doesn't mean your food suddenly stops having an effect on your body. Food always affects you, and I personally believe you'll be healthier eating a diet mainly composed of meats and veggies than eating primarily grains and processed foods. If you disagree that's fine; each person's lifestyle is unique.
Humans ate an incredibly varied diet based on geography, from the Inuits that ate mostly meat, to African tribes that were almost exclusively vegetarian. Archaeological evidence has shown bread was being baked long before agriculture began (flat breads baked on stones, about 30,000 years ago.) One study I read (which i don't have in front of me) showed some paleolithic era humans ate 3000 calories a day, with 55% carbs, 30% fat, and 20% protein on average, with close to 100 grams of fiber a day, mostly from tubers and grasses (hmm, doesn't paleo eliminate both grains and potatoes?)
Also, how does eating grains equal "eating primarily grains and processed foods?" That's a quite radical assumption.0 -
btw, aim for under 10%.
why, will it bring me closer to my paleo, cavemen, cousins?
I didn't say you'd be dead..I said you'd have diseases or some other heart problem or illness that otherwise could be avoided by not eating ****.
lol.0 -
Most paleo/primal eaters eat mostly fat...
That's even further from "hunter gatherer" reality than meat-heavy.0 -
It can really be as simple as replacing your pasta with veggies,
*kitten* no.
Hah.
I generally went with a pale-like diet only because I felt better and get fuller quicker (with results in less food consumption). I still do eat cookies, cakes and candies once in awhile along with things like pizza, ice cream and protein bars. But I definitely prefer more wholesome foods - minimally processed meats, eggs, vegetables and fruits.0 -
im glad that the people base their diet off of a time when the average age of death was 30
QFT0 -
*this is not directed at anyone in particular*
There's nothing wrong with eating "Paleo", if it works for you, you love the food, and you don't feel deprived. That said, there is nothing magical about this diet. It is not the golden ticket to health.
You aren't really a Paleo eater anyway.
There was no time in human history where our diet exactly matched out physiology. If we are "designed" to do anything, it is to eat a wide range of foods and make do with what is available.
There was also no Paliolithic person who had access to mango and zucchini at the same time.
European cavemen often went long stretches of time without any fresh plant matter in the winter.
Seaside cavemen did not eat the same diet as mountain cavemen. Etc. Etc.
Plenty of people are perfectly healthy while eating wheat and beans.
People can get adequate nutrition from "synthetic" food. My aunt has a paralyzed stomach and has subsided off a dietary shake pumped directly into her small intestine for years.
In extreme cases, diets like this can lead to orthorexia. Though the diet may be perfectly adequate, it isn't exactly mentally healthy if you can't bring yourself to take a bite of the chocolate chip cookie your nephew just baked for you.
ETA: the Egyptian slaves who built the pyramids subsided almost entirely on beer...maybe I should peg that era as the golden age of human nutrition
QFT0 -
I couldn't give two hoots what other people think about the way they eat and I tell nobody that my way is the highway, but I know that I feel a lot better since I stopped or severely limited pasta, rice, bread and processed sugars.
We mostly eat a wide range of meats, lots of colourful veg, I still occasionally have a slice of home baked rye bread, a piece of dark chocolate or a bit of honey.
I don't feel deprived in the slightest and have felt fab.
I also loosely follow IIFYM and find that it's a great way to meet my macros.
Don't care what anyone else thinks or does. Do what works for you but don't try to talk me out of or belittle what works for me. That's all. :flowerforyou:
Eat what you eat, and I eat what I eat and we get along just fine. What most people here have a problem with is the people giving ridiculous statements such as humans have not evolved since the stone age and that there is one paleo diet that was followed by everyone.
I don't like red meat that much, so I don't eat that much of it and I don't eat pork at all. So paleo would be a nightmare for me.0
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