Child support- what do you think?
Replies
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and all this crap about the child support not going to the mom is BS. My ex gets to live with his mistress to split the bills in a nice house but in a cheaper area of town because he doesn't have to worry about schools. I am moving into a two bedroom apartment in a nicer area of town to be safe and across the street from one of the best schools in town. My cost of living is more expensive because I have to take their needs into account in every decision that I make. I can't get a second job if I needed one (because I have them after work) I have to have a vehicle which is safe and reliable for two car seats, and the extra gas and wear and tear on my car from taking them to daycare, and I miss work and put more miles on my car for Dr's appts, and staying home when kids are sick....
I guess its ok if you are making 150K living in your nice house in the suburbs for your baby mama to live in a tiny roach infested apartment in the hood with gang activities every where and the constant threat of violence and your kids to be in a horrible school because you feel such anger at her for saddling you with your "burdens" and you don't want her to have a better quality of life because of it.
*This is not my situation, but dang..... that is what happens more often then not.0 -
I have never asked for help, never will and like it that way. yes it is hard some months but I GET TO DECIDE EVERYTHING with no interferance from him at all. I have been on my own from the start and he has not come around or even called once! so guess what she is ALL mine! and I walked away with the best gift of all, a wonderful child and my freedome from an deadbeat!0
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People teach kids that abstinence is the best form of birth control and that's why there are so many unplanned pregnancies. Because abstinence is not birth control, it's not having sex. People need to be properly educated on birth control. Birth control is only an issue if there is sex. If a person is abstinent, then birth control is not a factor or an issue (it's not needed). But, people are going to have sex.0
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Did he know that she wasnt on the pill?
did he not have common sense to go to walgreens and get some condoms? both are responsible point blank
This was my first post in this thread, so I was TRYING to understand exactly what was going on here. There was no need to point blank at me.
If a man tells a girl, I have absolutely no desire to have children with you, i want to do everything possible to prevent this from happening and she says 'lol ok bb whatever you want xoxoxox' and skips the pill and is lazy about tracking her periods even though she KNOWS that he is adamantly against having children...
Well, let's just say that he manned up and explained where he stood on the subject and trusted her and she was careless with his trust - knowing exactly how he felt about everything. And if he told her - which - btw - most couples have a discussion about what would be expected if there was an accidentally pregnancy, that if she got pregnant he was gone, and she got pregnant - she cant really be surprised that he is gone.
I believe, with all my heart, that I am the only one who can prevent myself from getting pregnant (with the exception of rape).
It is entirely my responsibility since i am entirely the one that will be pregnant and have the child.
If I want the right to choose if I carry the baby to term, if I want the right to choose adoption and when or to not have one, if I want the right to take BC or ask for it to be covered by my insurance, if i want the right to make these decisions without interference from anyone else.... then i have to accept that with rights, comes responsibilities.
Since we cannot control the actions of others, we have to control our own actions. Fear of being pregnant and raising a child alone would keep me from gambling.
my own personal opinion - just what i would do in this situation.
no one has to feel like I feel. im not pressuring anyone else to act as i would either.
He was completely aware of the possibility of pregnancy as she was. He had as much opportunity to prevent it that she did.
She has accepted her responsibility. She is raising this child. Just because he stated that he didn't "want" the child, if he didn't practice his own due dilligence in preventing pregnancy, then he is just as responsible as she is.
You're completely ignoring the fact that once the time for prevention has passed - whether one or both protected and failed, or neither used it - it's completely up to the woman. If neither used protection or they're aware of it failing and she doesn't want to get some plan b, she made a choice. He wants her to terminate and she doesn't want to. Abortion is out. She made a choice. He wants her to place for adoption, she doesn't. Adoption is out. She made a choice. He doesn't want to be a parent and she does. Single parent it is. She made a choice. He is forced to respect all of her other choices but his aren't going to be respected?
Look at it from another POV. Women have the right to choose. If I get pregnant and don't want to be a parent, I can terminate the pregnancy or I can give birth and place the baby for adoption. I can do either of these things without the man having any say. I can do either of these things without even telling the man I'm pregnant. He can beg and plead with me to carry the pregnancy to term b/c he wants to be a father and I can say no and terminate the pregnancy. Women have the right to choose(whether we all want it or appreciate it) and we need to take responsibility for our choices.
To clarify, I have a very different POV on couples who choose to have a family, split and then one parent doesn't contribute. Hate deadbeat parents. Don't feel like that's what we're talking about above though.
But that is the risk he took when he allowed the DNA to leave his body. Without being crude, he put that DNA in her body and essentially gave her the right to do with it whatever she chooses to. He was well-aware of that risk, and he still failed to prevent pregnancy. Ultimately, it would be the child that gets punished for the parents' actions, and that's why it's not right.
I'm just going to go ahead and put it out there. If the world worked the way you think it should, my ex-husband would not be supporting his children now. Without his income, I am below poverty level. I would still be living in a crappy apartment in a bad neighborhood where gun shots and gang beatings were commonplace. And that's just one example. I don't want to give out too many details of my life, but suffice to say, that my kids are much better off with their father supporting them, than not.0 -
She should ABSOLUTELY file for child support.0
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The moral of this thread, never have sex.
Truth!! LOL0 -
The moral of this thread, never have sex.
or put it into a different hole with no uterus attached. Jeesh, do I have to think of everything.0 -
I wish I had the balls to get child support, but I have no interest in the drama. I am just glad I make enough to support my two toddlers on my own (Daycare is not cheap). But I do without so they are with me more (he said he would fight for more custody if I made him pay child support and obviously it would not be because he wants to be a good dad to his kids)... he gets to live with his mistress to split the bills and I get to do it all on my own.
But in that situation, I see no downside. He isn't going to want to have custody of the child, so really there is no lose for her.
Not to butt into your personal situation, but I'd call his bluff on the custody thing. Of course I don't know your ex, but if he's involved with the mistress still. I bet she doesn't want the kids around. As medical costs and day care costs are going to get more expensive. Your children age get involved in sports need money for uniforms or whatever. Personally, I don't think it's fair he got to have his cake and eat it too not when the law makes it clear he has to support his children.
I hope in the future you reconsider or just talk to someone about it. Your children deserve all the advantages in the world.
Plus he owes you back support.
^ My friends say the same thing.. but as it stand my 3 year old melts into a puddle when she finds out its "Daddy's Day" and I just can't take the chance when she says how she doesn't love him and wants to be with me... I try so fing hard to tell her that he loves her and to foster a positive relationship but hes an academic type (just finished his 4th degree, PhD) and has no relatibility to small children and expects them to be mini adults so is harsh with them (not to the point of abuse, I don't think.. just no fun allowed)
I'd fight him for child support. He doesn't automatically get more custody just bc he's paying more money and I'd make it a point to let the judge know that he's threatening you w a custody fight. Disgusting. And, I'd be a bit concerned that your daughter doesn't want to see her dad and thinks that he doesn't love her. Considering that he's threatened to sue you for custody and your daughter's reaction to being around him, I'd look into that.
If you can't afford to take care of the child by yourself should something happen to the other person.The moral of this thread, never have sex.0 -
I have never asked for help, never will and like it that way. yes it is hard some months but I GET TO DECIDE EVERYTHING with no interferance from him at all. I have been on my own from the start and he has not come around or even called once! so guess what she is ALL mine! and I walked away with the best gift of all, a wonderful child and my freedome from an deadbeat!
YES! this was the point of my earlier post, mine is almost 17 now and its still one of the best decisions i ever made in my life.0 -
I have never asked for help, never will and like it that way. yes it is hard some months but I GET TO DECIDE EVERYTHING with no interferance from him at all. I have been on my own from the start and he has not come around or even called once! so guess what she is ALL mine! and I walked away with the best gift of all, a wonderful child and my freedome from an deadbeat!
I know a woman that filed after the child was 18 in Utah. She got back support from the divorce when the child was 8.0 -
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.
I am pretty sure that the baby growing in my belly as I type is not nonexistent.... it's in there moving around and kicking.
:huh: That's not what I meant. She asked where is the "child's" choice. The "child's" choice is nonexistent until there is a baby that can actually survive outside of the womb.
So just the plain practice of "existing" in the womb would not be considered a choice to live? Do you not think a growing fetus is already choosing to live by simply existing? Does it have a choice to grow it's bones and little body?
(Pull out the philosophy books folks)0 -
This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.
But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.
Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!
Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.
Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.
So much for being adults.
Murder is murder. Abortion is just that, abortion.
Has nothing to do with being adults. It's a difference of opinion.
Let me ask you this...you're pregnant and I, being a horrible individual, kick you in the stomach and kill your child. Am I going to prison for murder? Damn straight I am.
So, how does the fact that the child is your own make it any different?
My body my choice? I can touch my private parts all day, it's legal. If I touch yours without your consent it is sexual assault. Do you see the difference?
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
Again a child is a child, an unborn is just that unborn. Has nothing to do with being selfish or feelings. It is just simple facts distinguishing things.
I can't just equate things and expect them to be equal.
Otherwise, I would like to charge every Jewish man who ever masturbated by committing a Holocaust ( or Holochyno rather).
:laugh: :blushing: :laugh: :flowerforyou:0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything.
A man should always be in control of who he gives his sperm to. After conception the woman has the choice, but a man has the choice before that. Every time a man who doesn't want a pregnancy puts his uncovered penis in a woman he's basically writing a check and hoping she won't cash it. But sometimes women lie about being on the pill, or lie about being unable to conceive, or "forget" to take precautions...it just amazes me that a man will give someone else so much control over the next 18+ years of his life because it's momentarily more pleasurable for him to skip the condom.
I knew a pro athlete for a while and he said they taught him early in training camp that his semen was about to become a valuable commodity and that some women would be willing to lie and steal to get it. He was told to always use a condom, and to always rinse or flush it afterwards. I believe all single men should think along those lines.
QFT0 -
Well this thread blew up while I was lifting. I never said the dad shouldn't support the kid. I said that he should pay 1/2 the cost to meet the childs needs. In no way should a man have to raise the living status of a woman. Ever. If he chooses to do so, fine. That is his choice.
To everyone who said he should want to elevate the status of the child (and the mom by proxy), that should be his choice. If parents are together, they are not required to do any more than meet the childs needs. If they choose to do more, that is on them. Them not be together should have no impact on this issue. Neither should be required by law to do any more than meet the kids needs, same as they wouldn't be if they were together. If they aggree to do more, fine. If one wants to do more and the other doesn't, it is should be up to the parent that wants to do more.
Hell, I make more than the dad that is discussed in the OP. Yet I live in an ~1400 sq ft 3 br 2 bath that costs under 100k. My kids wear mostly second hand clothes, and I wear several articles of clothing that I wore in high school. I don't feel the need to have any lavish lifestyle because I make 6 figures. I live about the same way I did when I made 1/2 as much. Should I be required by law to up the living standards of my kids and I just because I make more money and can afford it? Because many of you are suggesting that the dad should be required to pay to up the living standard of the kids and their mom to match his salary. That is the exact same as butting in and requiring me to up my childrens living standards. Even though they are healthy, happy, and their needs are met and then some.0 -
The moral of this thread, never have sex.
:laugh:
Pretty much, unless you want a kid then no matter what contraceptive is being used there is still a chance!0 -
I have never asked for help, never will and like it that way. yes it is hard some months but I GET TO DECIDE EVERYTHING with no interferance from him at all. I have been on my own from the start and he has not come around or even called once! so guess what she is ALL mine! and I walked away with the best gift of all, a wonderful child and my freedome from an deadbeat!
I get child support and this^^ Because at the time of our "agreement" due to his absence during pregnancy and the first year of her life the judge left it up to me whether or not to share custody, and I chose not to. The only thing he has is visitation rights and he barely uses that.0 -
I have never asked for help, never will and like it that way. yes it is hard some months but I GET TO DECIDE EVERYTHING with no interferance from him at all. I have been on my own from the start and he has not come around or even called once! so guess what she is ALL mine! and I walked away with the best gift of all, a wonderful child and my freedome from an deadbeat!
This is what's wrong. If he pays support, he's not BUYING your kid, he's just being responsible and taking care of his kid. You don't get custody just bc you pay support and you can't deny custody/visitation just bc the parent stops paying. You're letting your child go through hard times bc you want her all to yourself. Based on what you mentioned, he doesn't want to be in her life, so why not just file for support so that your child doesn't have to struggle?0 -
I am 70. I married once had two children. And got 84.00 every two weeks he went before the judge because he only wanted to pay 82.00 the judge took one minute slapped the gavel and told him get out of my courtroom. Now the kids are grown he comes to weddinds and occasions and always brings a new woman but nothing else. After 37 years divorced I just took back my maiden name. I waited till the kids were grown and even the grands. This young lady should stand up assertively not aggressively and e child support. This nabs wife might not know and I say what you don't know can hurt you. Good luck to her there is a reason for everything under heaven. Blessings to the child.0
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This nabs wife might not know and I say what you don't know can hurt you.
I agree with this!!! And it hurts his children for their mother not to know who he truly is.0 -
But that is the risk he took when he allowed the DNA to leave his body. Without being crude, he put that DNA in her body and essentially gave her the right to do with it whatever she chooses to. He was well-aware of that risk, and he still failed to prevent pregnancy.
Sorry, but there's no way you're going to convince me that he should be responsible for her choosing to be a single mother to a baby she can't afford. And yes, it sucks and is horribly sad for the child. Hopefully she meets a good man who wants to be a father and is happy to step in where someone else stepped out. In the meantime, yeah, legally she can go after him for money, right or wrong. And as a mother who would do anything to make sure my child has her basic needs met, yeah, she probably should go for either child support or welfare, both of which piss me off in this situation. This lady wasn't financially set when she decided to have the child and then fell on hard times. She couldn't afford to have a baby and she did it anyway. So now either this guy has to pay for her choice, or we the tax payers have to pay for her choice. It's not fair to anyone, least of all her child.0 -
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.
I am pretty sure that the baby growing in my belly as I type is not nonexistent.... it's in there moving around and kicking.
:huh: That's not what I meant. She asked where is the "child's" choice. The "child's" choice is nonexistent until there is a baby that can actually survive outside of the womb.
So just the plain practice of "existing" in the womb would not be considered a choice to live? Do you not think a growing fetus is already choosing to live by simply existing? Does it have a choice to grow it's bones and little body?
(Pull out the philosophy books folks)
You're joking, right? I mean, you have to be joking.
Can a fetus *choose* to live?! No! Why? BIOLOGY!!!0 -
She owes it to her child to file for support. The child is entitled to be supported by both parents. It's not about her it's about the child. Good luck to her!0
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But that is the risk he took when he allowed the DNA to leave his body. Without being crude, he put that DNA in her body and essentially gave her the right to do with it whatever she chooses to. He was well-aware of that risk, and he still failed to prevent pregnancy.
Sorry, but there's no way you're going to convince me that he should be responsible for her choosing to be a single mother to a baby she can't afford. And yes, it sucks and is horribly sad for the child. Hopefully she meets a good man who wants to be a father and is happy to step in where someone else stepped out. In the meantime, yeah, legally she can go after him for money, right or wrong. And as a mother who would do anything to make sure my child has her basic needs met, yeah, she probably should go for either child support or welfare, both of which piss me off in this situation. This lady wasn't financially set when she decided to have the child and then fell on hard times. She couldn't afford to have a baby and she did it anyway. So now either this guy has to pay for her choice, or we the tax payers have to pay for her choice. It's not fair to anyone, least of all her child.
But the point you are missing is that he consigned her choice by not protecting himself. If you consigned a loan, wouldn't the other party be as responsible as you for that loan?0 -
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.
These arguments are both a matter of opinions, and no matter how much each side weighs in, nothing is going to deter the other from their opinion, so let's put down the swords here and just agree to disagree, shall we?0 -
Its took both parents to make the child so both parents should be involved with supporting the child plain & simple. She should not feel guilty because that *kitten* isn't going out of his way to help her. I'm going to stop myself before I go on a rant lol. I feel bad for her hopefully she gets the help she needs.0
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The moral of this thread, never have sex.
or put it into a different hole with no uterus attached. Jeesh, do I have to think of everything.
Glad you said it and not me! :drinker:
Also, all this makes me feel better about my method. I pull out aim to the face and scream " BAM! No kids!".0 -
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.
I am pretty sure that the baby growing in my belly as I type is not nonexistent.... it's in there moving around and kicking.
:huh: That's not what I meant. She asked where is the "child's" choice. The "child's" choice is nonexistent until there is a baby that can actually survive outside of the womb.
So just the plain practice of "existing" in the womb would not be considered a choice to live? Do you not think a growing fetus is already choosing to live by simply existing? Does it have a choice to grow it's bones and little body?
(Pull out the philosophy books folks)
You're joking, right? I mean, you have to be joking.
Can a fetus *choose* to live?! No! Why? BIOLOGY!!!
Yeah... did you catch the philosophy joke at the end?? Guess that one went over your head0 -
I'm just going to go ahead and put it out there. If the world worked the way you think it should, my ex-husband would not be supporting his children now. Without his income, I am below poverty level. I would still be living in a crappy apartment in a bad neighborhood where gun shots and gang beatings were commonplace. And that's just one example. I don't want to give out too many details of my life, but suffice to say, that my kids are much better off with their father supporting them, than not.
That's not the same thing. I clearly saidTo clarify, I have a very different POV on couples who choose to have a family, split and then one parent doesn't contribute. Hate deadbeat parents. Don't feel like that's what we're talking about above though.0 -
Here's my 2 cents. I have two children by the same idiot. He left me and our children right after our 2nd child was born. Because I was still in school I went on state assistance to pay for daycare. In order to get daycare, I had to file for child support. That's what I did. Fast forward almost 8 years, I now have this degree and that degree and make X amounts of dollars a year where I no longer need state assistance. The child support order is still there though. I currently make enough to provide for my family without my husband having to work. (My salary is double his, this is important for later.) Child support is supposed to be for the child to help with their expenses. Do I need his child support? No. Would it be nice? Yes. I could put more into a college fund for my children than I am now. Or pay for all of their sports and extras with that money. Because my ex doesn't work, the state has imputed his income. He is currently set to pay me around $400 a month for 2 children. Will I ever see it? Probably not and I will not go after him for it. I do feel that he should pay for his children though. Any real man, I think anyway, will do whatever it takes to help take care of the children that he has. Even if he's not with the mother.
Flip the tables. My husband has a daughter in a different state. Her mother is well aware of the fact that my husband does not make the majority of the money in our house. She learned that the hard way. She found out from my loud mouth mother in law the cars that we drive, the area that we live in, the sports our children play and immediately went after a modification in child support. Boy was she upset when his child support actually went down. lol She called me threatening to take me to court. I have no problem with the fact that my husband pays child support. I will go out and buy clothes and school supplies and anything else the child needs. But I refuse to pay any extra cash to that woman. I have discovered that anytime she's hurting for money is the only time she remembers our phone numbers.
It doesn't sound like your friend would be the mother in scenario two. But I do think she needs to file for child support FOR THE CHILD. I am probably safely going to assume that had she not had a child, her expenses would be lower? She just needs to keep in mind who the money is for. So when she finishes school, she can start putting money into a bank account for the child to use whenever necessary. Not saying that's not what she would do now but I'm saying it will be easier because most people's pay goes up after they finish school. GOOD LUCK!!0 -
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.
These arguments are both a matter of opinions, and no matter how much each side weighs in, nothing is going to deter the other from their opinion, so let's put down the swords here and just agree to disagree, shall we?
I pretty much knew this when I started. There's just always that slim chance that someone might come over to the other side. To save a child, I'll always try it.
Edited for spelling.0
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