Child support- what do you think?
Replies
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condoms are something like 88% effective (can't google at work) when used properly. the choice to have sex involves a risk of pregnancy, no matter how small. period.*
*I should mention the risk practically disappears when she is on her period.
Practically being the operative word.0 -
Did he know that she wasnt on the pill?
did he not have common sense to go to walgreens and get some condoms? both are responsible point blank
This was my first post in this thread, so I was TRYING to understand exactly what was going on here. There was no need to point blank at me.
If a man tells a girl, I have absolutely no desire to have children with you, i want to do everything possible to prevent this from happening and she says 'lol ok bb whatever you want xoxoxox' and skips the pill and is lazy about tracking her periods even though she KNOWS that he is adamantly against having children...
Well, let's just say that he manned up and explained where he stood on the subject and trusted her and she was careless with his trust - knowing exactly how he felt about everything. And if he told her - which - btw - most couples have a discussion about what would be expected if there was an accidentally pregnancy, that if she got pregnant he was gone, and she got pregnant - she cant really be surprised that he is gone.
I believe, with all my heart, that I am the only one who can prevent myself from getting pregnant (with the exception of rape).
It is entirely my responsibility since i am entirely the one that will be pregnant and have the child.
If I want the right to choose if I carry the baby to term, if I want the right to choose adoption and when or to not have one, if I want the right to take BC or ask for it to be covered by my insurance, if i want the right to make these decisions without interference from anyone else.... then i have to accept that with rights, comes responsibilities.
Since we cannot control the actions of others, we have to control our own actions. Fear of being pregnant and raising a child alone would keep me from gambling.
my own personal opinion - just what i would do in this situation.
no one has to feel like I feel. im not pressuring anyone else to act as i would either.
He was completely aware of the possibility of pregnancy as she was. He had as much opportunity to prevent it that she did.
She has accepted her responsibility. She is raising this child. Just because he stated that he didn't "want" the child, if he didn't practice his own due dilligence in preventing pregnancy, then he is just as responsible as she is.
Exaclty. Me not studying for a test then taking it knowing I could fail it then failing it and me tellling the professor I dont the grade doesnt work out very well. he should have taken precautons as well as she if each did not really want it to happen. you cant throw the baby away with the bath water b/c you just dont want it and dont want to help support it.
fyi.. the point blank was me adding my period or dot at the end of the sentence. nothing personal... point blank0 -
LOL. Could you see a man taking the pill everyday? :laugh: I just see that as being a blow to their egos.To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
I agree that deception is wrong and plays a factor in all of this. In this particular situation there was extreme deception. And what you described is also extreme deception. Personally, if I were guy, I would use a condom even if she said she was on the pill.
This. He had as much right and opportunity to protect himself as she did.
This is why I'm always surprised we don't have a male birth control pill. I would think men would want double and triple insurance. I'd want to protect my resources or my anonymity if I was cheating.
:laugh:nvm. Don't think I want to be apart of this argument. Carry on.:laugh:0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
99% is pretty damn effective.
So the argument is that everyone should have personal responsibility since they understand the risks involved?
condoms are something like 88% effective (can't google at work) when used properly. the choice to have sex involves a risk of pregnancy, no matter how small. period.*
*I should mention the risk practically disappears when she is on her period.
Wait wait wait... are you saying that when a woman on her period the pregnancy risk is decreased??
not actually.. women can still get pregnant on the period.. well if its the end of the cycle and the spem lives long enough to fertilize the egg when she is ovulating a few days after her period.. that's what I read anyways0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
99% is pretty damn effective.
So the argument is that everyone should have personal responsibility since they understand the risks involved?
condoms are something like 88% effective (can't google at work) when used properly. the choice to have sex involves a risk of pregnancy, no matter how small. period.*
*I should mention the risk practically disappears when she is on her period.
Wait wait wait... are you saying that when a woman on her period the pregnancy risk is decreased??
from my understanding, decreased but not eliminated.0 -
I wish I had the balls to get child support, but I have no interest in the drama. I am just glad I make enough to support my two toddlers on my own (Daycare is not cheap). But I do without so they are with me more (he said he would fight for more custody if I made him pay child support and obviously it would not be because he wants to be a good dad to his kids)... he gets to live with his mistress to split the bills and I get to do it all on my own.
But in that situation, I see no downside. He isn't going to want to have custody of the child, so really there is no lose for her.
Not to butt into your personal situation, but I'd call his bluff on the custody thing. Of course I don't know your ex, but if he's involved with the mistress still. I bet she doesn't want the kids around. As medical costs and day care costs are going to get more expensive. Your children age get involved in sports need money for uniforms or whatever. Personally, I don't think it's fair he got to have his cake and eat it too not when the law makes it clear he has to support his children.
I hope in the future you reconsider or just talk to someone about it. Your children deserve all the advantages in the world.
Plus he owes you back support.0 -
So the argument is that everyone should have personal responsibility since they understand the risks involved?
[/quote]
condoms are something like 88% effective (can't google at work) when used properly. the choice to have sex involves a risk of pregnancy, no matter how small. period.*
*I should mention the risk practically disappears when she is on her period.
[/quote]
Wait wait wait... are you saying that when a woman on her period the pregnancy risk is decreased??
[/quote]
not actually.. women can still get pregnant on the period.. well if its the end of the cycle and the spem lives long enough to fertilize the egg when she is ovulating a few days after her period.. that's what I read anyways
[/quote]
That's what I thought... but had to make sure. Because yep we can still get preggers during period time!0 -
:drinker:0
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So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.0 -
Well I made it through to page 9 and then just couldn't contain myself anymore.
First of all, I'm really not clear as to why abortion and adoption keep coming up? I mean the woman decided to keep the baby.....adoption and abortion are irrelevant at this point.
I'm also unclear as to why it's always a battle of "oh I felt bad for him" or "oh my ex is a golddigging b!tch and I don't want to support her lifestyle" and why it's not "what is in the best interest of the child?"
The fact that the ADULTS put themselves first is often why these situations get so sticky.
And to the people that think that it's okay for their kids to live in less than optimal circumstances because the ex makes next to nothing while you live the high life.....give your effing head a shake. You think that that sort of thing will not go unnoticed by your kid/s when they are old enough to "get it". You're right it will and you run the risk of looking like a douche.
Now that I have gotten that off my chest.....
Yeah, in the province I live it many of the men make STUPID amounts of money and the amount of child support awarded to the baby mama (it is usually the case where I am because the men go away to work often times) is RIDICULOUS. I vehemently disagreed with the amount that I was awarded because I thought it was too high and unfair.....and I took $500/month LESS from him for years always with the understanding that if he stopped paying me of his own free will that I would file the order and let the government collect from him. He stopped paying, so that's what I did. Now I get nothing. He is a complete and utter deadbeat and supports someone else family. I would gladly give up my child support in return for him to be a loving and involved father. Sadly, I will not see him be a great dad nor will I see the child support.
I think that every situation is different and there will always be people that exemplify the stereotypes....men and women. But I think that there are decent ways that these sorts of things can be handled as well. The most important thing is to keep the best interest of the child/ren in mind. If it means that I go without so that she has something, then that's what happens.
/end rant0 -
My mother filed for child support, but father was a **** and never antied up. He was also a poor excuse for a 'father'. My mother was also a single parent who worked 1-3 jobs at a time having to support not just us, but herself. She needs to file child support. Sometimes a parent has to swallow their pride to do what is best for their child and she needs to realize that. Also, depending on what state she files in will depend on how much money he will owe, etc.0
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So the argument is that everyone should have personal responsibility since they understand the risks involved?
condoms are something like 88% effective (can't google at work) when used properly. the choice to have sex involves a risk of pregnancy, no matter how small. period.*
*I should mention the risk practically disappears when she is on her period.
[/quote]
Wait wait wait... are you saying that when a woman on her period the pregnancy risk is decreased??
[/quote]
not actually.. women can still get pregnant on the period.. well if its the end of the cycle and the spem lives long enough to fertilize the egg when she is ovulating a few days after her period.. that's what I read anyways
[/quote]
That's what I thought... but had to make sure. Because yep we can still get preggers during period time!
[/quote]
it's possible but I believe fairly rare, which is what I said. I was actually just being sarcastic in even bringing it up, but this is all good info to have!0 -
People should have enough character to want to support their kids either through equal custody or possibly full custody with child support that specifically goes to the kids welfare, not the other parent's. That said, there are lots of situations where people lack the character to take care of their own business so filing for the support they should be giving is an option.0
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This is a sensitive subject for me! My husband pays child support every week but the mother is jealous of our lifestyle and refuses to let my him stay overnight with us. She is 36 years old, lives at home with her mother, doesn't have a job or a car. She uses every dime we give her for herself. Her nails are always done with wraps and fresh paint. She doesn't have a pot to piss in so how does she afford to get her nails done and buy cigarettes (@ $10 per pack)?. We took my stepson out for dinner and afterwards he wanted to go skating. It was Friday, the same day we give her the weekly check, and he asked her (while on the phone) in front of us "can I go skating", she said "no, I have no money". That ^%*&^%*%*$%$*#%!!!!! Really? Of course, I gave him money out of my own pocket and didn't say a word to him. I never would!
This woman needs to grow up and show her son what real life is like!
We moved to his town to be closer to him. The first day he comes to visit he says "I am going to stay over", She says "of course you are", he says "are you upset, if so, I will come home", she says "don't even bother"
Really? Giving your 14 yr old son a guilt trip for spending time with his Dad, huh? PATHETIC!
As for you friend, I think she needs to ask for help if she truly needs it. I would give my stepson the world, if I knew it was all for him!
Good for you for NEVER saying anything about it in front of your step-son! It is NEVER fair to put them in the middle or make it their problem. I bet deep down he would rather live with you guys, but never would say anything because she would make him suffer. Glad he has you both!
Thank you! He really means the world to me and it hurts me that we never get to spend a lot of time with him! His mother always makes sure she says whats on her mind to him, which is awful! My husband and I just try to be the better person(s) and take the high road.0 -
I wish I had the balls to get child support, but I have no interest in the drama. I am just glad I make enough to support my two toddlers on my own (Daycare is not cheap). But I do without so they are with me more (he said he would fight for more custody if I made him pay child support and obviously it would not be because he wants to be a good dad to his kids)... he gets to live with his mistress to split the bills and I get to do it all on my own.
But in that situation, I see no downside. He isn't going to want to have custody of the child, so really there is no lose for her.
Not to butt into your personal situation, but I'd call his bluff on the custody thing. Of course I don't know your ex, but if he's involved with the mistress still. I bet she doesn't want the kids around. As medical costs and day care costs are going to get more expensive. Your children age get involved in sports need money for uniforms or whatever. Personally, I don't think it's fair he got to have his cake and eat it too not when the law makes it clear he has to support his children.
I hope in the future you reconsider or just talk to someone about it. Your children deserve all the advantages in the world.
Plus he owes you back support.
^ My friends say the same thing.. but as it stand my 3 year old melts into a puddle when she finds out its "Daddy's Day" and I just can't take the chance when she says how she doesn't love him and wants to be with me... I try so fing hard to tell her that he loves her and to foster a positive relationship but hes an academic type (just finished his 4th degree, PhD) and has no relatibility to small children and expects them to be mini adults so is harsh with them (not to the point of abuse, I don't think.. just no fun allowed)0 -
The moral of this thread, never have sex.0
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If I was in this situation then I would not want the money and would rather struggle. Might sound silly but I'd feel that if I made the so called father take responsibility then I couldn't complain if he just decided to walk back into my childs life someday. I would rather have nothing to do with him and live my life poor but happy than deal with the disruption he could cause.
^this!
i got pregnant at 19, the father wanted nothing to do with it. The day i came home from the hospital with her, he had his girlfriend call me to ask if he could see her. I said no way. Then he told her to ask me if i wanted child support and i said no way, i didnt even put you on the birth certificate. He was fine with that. She finally met him when she was 3 but could care less. She's now almost 17 and could still careless.
Its been a struggle financially. But peace of mind is more than that. She's never had to have visitation with him, I was able to move about 7 states away without his say so. I can homeschool her w/o his permission etc. He is still flaky, can bairly support himself financially or emotionally so for her, it was WAY better that he wasnt there.
It might not be the same for your friend, but if he's paying child support, after he asks for a dna test im sure, then he will get visitation and the right to say if you can change states if you want to move, can say you cant take the child out of the state for any reason, even vacations w/o his permission, can say where the child can or cant go to school, can take every christmas and summer vacations so she cant ever go on vacation with her child, etc.
Its a personal decision but he obviously doenst want anything to do with the child but might just try to screw her over since now he's got to face his wife about his infidelity.0 -
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.
I am pretty sure that the baby growing in my belly as I type is not nonexistent.... it's in there moving around and kicking.0 -
The moral of this thread, never have sex.
WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!! :drinker:0 -
The moral of this thread, never have sex.
Sadly. Vibrators for everyone! :drinker:0 -
Did he know that she wasnt on the pill?
did he not have common sense to go to walgreens and get some condoms? both are responsible point blank
This was my first post in this thread, so I was TRYING to understand exactly what was going on here. There was no need to point blank at me.
If a man tells a girl, I have absolutely no desire to have children with you, i want to do everything possible to prevent this from happening and she says 'lol ok bb whatever you want xoxoxox' and skips the pill and is lazy about tracking her periods even though she KNOWS that he is adamantly against having children...
Well, let's just say that he manned up and explained where he stood on the subject and trusted her and she was careless with his trust - knowing exactly how he felt about everything. And if he told her - which - btw - most couples have a discussion about what would be expected if there was an accidentally pregnancy, that if she got pregnant he was gone, and she got pregnant - she cant really be surprised that he is gone.
I believe, with all my heart, that I am the only one who can prevent myself from getting pregnant (with the exception of rape).
It is entirely my responsibility since i am entirely the one that will be pregnant and have the child.
If I want the right to choose if I carry the baby to term, if I want the right to choose adoption and when or to not have one, if I want the right to take BC or ask for it to be covered by my insurance, if i want the right to make these decisions without interference from anyone else.... then i have to accept that with rights, comes responsibilities.
Since we cannot control the actions of others, we have to control our own actions. Fear of being pregnant and raising a child alone would keep me from gambling.
my own personal opinion - just what i would do in this situation.
no one has to feel like I feel. im not pressuring anyone else to act as i would either.
He was completely aware of the possibility of pregnancy as she was. He had as much opportunity to prevent it that she did.
She has accepted her responsibility. She is raising this child. Just because he stated that he didn't "want" the child, if he didn't practice his own due dilligence in preventing pregnancy, then he is just as responsible as she is.
You're completely ignoring the fact that once the time for prevention has passed - whether one or both protected and failed, or neither used it - it's completely up to the woman. If neither used protection or they're aware of it failing and she doesn't want to get some plan b, she made a choice. He wants her to terminate and she doesn't want to. Abortion is out. She made a choice. He wants her to place for adoption, she doesn't. Adoption is out. She made a choice. He doesn't want to be a parent and she does. Single parent it is. She made a choice. He is forced to respect all of her other choices but his aren't going to be respected?
Look at it from another POV. Women have the right to choose. If I get pregnant and don't want to be a parent, I can terminate the pregnancy or I can give birth and place the baby for adoption. I can do either of these things without the man having any say. I can do either of these things without even telling the man I'm pregnant. He can beg and plead with me to carry the pregnancy to term b/c he wants to be a father and I can say no and terminate the pregnancy. Women have the right to choose(whether we all want it or appreciate it) and we need to take responsibility for our choices.
To clarify, I have a very different POV on couples who choose to have a family, split and then one parent doesn't contribute. Hate deadbeat parents. Don't feel like that's what we're talking about above though.0 -
2. You cannot compel someone to have an abortion. Many people have moral objections to it. Being unable to have an abortion for moral reasons cannot prevent you from child support eligibility.
That point of yours is an interesting thought. I wonder if a man has ever fought in court for the woman to get an abortion because he has moral objections to bringing a child into the world.0 -
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.
The CHILD is still not capable of living outside of the womb on it's own, until it is able to fend for itself....Yeh, I'm sure you can see where I'm going with that.0 -
If a pregnancy occurs, then TWO people failed at preventing it. TWO people were responsible for causing that pregnancy.
So now what?
The child is in the woman's body. Dad doesn't have a choice whether or not to take responsibility post-conception. He is only absolved from the responsibility of the child if the woman also chooses not to take responsibility. To say that he isn't responsible if he doesn't want to be is really dangerous territory. He should have been responsible enough to prevent pregnancy in the first place. If he didn't he allowed mom the right to decide for him.
If our legal system actually allowed a man to declare that he doesn't want responsibility post-conception, then there would undoubtedly be many (if not most) children living in poverty.0 -
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.
I am pretty sure that the baby growing in my belly as I type is not nonexistent.... it's in there moving around and kicking.
:huh: That's not what I meant. She asked where is the "child's" choice. The "child's" choice is nonexistent until there is a baby that can actually survive outside of the womb.0 -
This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.
But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.
Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!
Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.
Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.
So much for being adults.
Murder is murder. Abortion is just that, abortion.
Has nothing to do with being adults. It's a difference of opinion.
Let me ask you this...you're pregnant and I, being a horrible individual, kick you in the stomach and kill your child. Am I going to prison for murder? Damn straight I am.
So, how does the fact that the child is your own make it any different?
My body my choice? I can touch my private parts all day, it's legal. If I touch yours without your consent it is sexual assault. Do you see the difference?
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
Again a child is a child, an unborn is just that unborn. Has nothing to do with being selfish or feelings. It is just simple facts distinguishing things.
I can't just equate things and expect them to be equal.
Otherwise, I would like to charge every Jewish man who ever masturbated by committing a Holocaust ( or Holochyno rather).0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything.
A man should always be in control of who he gives his sperm to. After conception the woman has the choice, but a man has the choice before that. Every time a man who doesn't want a pregnancy puts his uncovered penis in a woman he's basically writing a check and hoping she won't cash it. But sometimes women lie about being on the pill, or lie about being unable to conceive, or "forget" to take precautions...it just amazes me that a man will give someone else so much control over the next 18+ years of his life because it's momentarily more pleasurable for him to skip the condom.
I knew a pro athlete for a while and he said they taught him early in training camp that his semen was about to become a valuable commodity and that some women would be willing to lie and steal to get it. He was told to always use a condom, and to always rinse or flush it afterwards. I believe all single men should think along those lines.0 -
The moral of this thread, never have sex.
or just realize the risks and man up and accept them if they come to fruition.0 -
I wish I had the balls to get child support, but I have no interest in the drama. I am just glad I make enough to support my two toddlers on my own (Daycare is not cheap). But I do without so they are with me more (he said he would fight for more custody if I made him pay child support and obviously it would not be because he wants to be a good dad to his kids)... he gets to live with his mistress to split the bills and I get to do it all on my own.
But in that situation, I see no downside. He isn't going to want to have custody of the child, so really there is no lose for her.
Not to butt into your personal situation, but I'd call his bluff on the custody thing. Of course I don't know your ex, but if he's involved with the mistress still. I bet she doesn't want the kids around. As medical costs and day care costs are going to get more expensive. Your children age get involved in sports need money for uniforms or whatever. Personally, I don't think it's fair he got to have his cake and eat it too not when the law makes it clear he has to support his children.
I hope in the future you reconsider or just talk to someone about it. Your children deserve all the advantages in the world.
Plus he owes you back support.
^ My friends say the same thing.. but as it stand my 3 year old melts into a puddle when she finds out its "Daddy's Day" and I just can't take the chance when she says how she doesn't love him and wants to be with me... I try so fing hard to tell her that he loves her and to foster a positive relationship but hes an academic type (just finished his 4th degree, PhD) and has no relatibility to small children and expects them to be mini adults so is harsh with them (not to the point of abuse, I don't think.. just no fun allowed)
Awe hugs to you and your babygirl. You are a good strong Mama. I understand your hesitation, but maybe in the near future especially when she starts school, talk to a lawyer or child services in your state.
At least you have no shame strong single mother. When your little girl grows up she'll know who was there for her. :flowerforyou:0 -
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?
It's nonexistent until they're an actual baby, capable of living outside of the womb.
I am pretty sure that the baby growing in my belly as I type is not nonexistent.... it's in there moving around and kicking.
Congratulations!0
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