Child support- what do you think?
Replies
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If he told her from the beginning that he didn't want the child, I don't believe he should be responsible to pay to raise that child if the mother has decided she wanted to keep it. It would be one thing if the child was born, the mother thought they would raise the child together, and he winds up running off, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
He had sex with her. EVERYONE past a certain age knows that, no matter what, if you have sex with the opposite sex, there is a possibility of a child. Knowing that and going ahead with it, should be considered signing on the bottom line.
I know a couple where the woman kept taking the pill even after they married. Neither of them wanted children. He didn't even know she was on the pill, but when he found out he let her know that it wasn't necessary as he had had a vasectomy 20 years before. The next year, she thought she had a tumor because she kept gaining weight in the stomach area. Nope...they were having a baby. Neither one of them ran out on that child. If you have sex, pregnancy is a risk. Period.0 -
Sad thing is, it's always the child who suffers.0
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If the child was genuinely an accident and your friend knew from the beginning that this guy didn't want kids, then no, he shouldn't hve to pay her child support. If she wanted the kid and he didn't . . . well, I honestly don't feel he's obligated to be part of her life or the kid's life, period. I mean, he's obviously a skeeze as he was running around on his wife and whatever, but still. If he encouraged her to not keep the baby I'm guessing that means she knew up front he wasn't going to be around and chose to keep it anyway. Which was her choice to make; she knew she'd be a single mom so . . . I don't know, make your bed and lie in it kinda thing.
If, on the other hand, he said he'd support her and be there for her or offered to leave his wife for her and then backed out of that deal, then yeah, she definitely needs to file for support.
And yet another one. So, you honestly believe that this child is not due anything from his/her father simply because dad didn't want him/her?0 -
If the child was genuinely an accident and your friend knew from the beginning that this guy didn't want kids, then no, he shouldn't hve to pay her child support. If she wanted the kid and he didn't . . . well, I honestly don't feel he's obligated to be part of her life or the kid's life, period. I mean, he's obviously a skeeze as he was running around on his wife and whatever, but still. If he encouraged her to not keep the baby I'm guessing that means she knew up front he wasn't going to be around and chose to keep it anyway. Which was her choice to make; she knew she'd be a single mom so . . . I don't know, make your bed and lie in it kinda thing.
If, on the other hand, he said he'd support her and be there for her or offered to leave his wife for her and then backed out of that deal, then yeah, she definitely needs to file for support.
Wow... just wow! The first paragraph of your post has got to be a joke. If not, consider what the child rights are. Because he didn't want a baby then that said baby has no right to it's support from it's father?0 -
Sad thing is, it's always the child who suffers.
Yes!0 -
Sad thing is, it's always the child who suffers.
QFT 100x over. I am truly shocked at the number of people that think it is okay for dad to not take care of his child... EVER!0 -
If he told her from the beginning that he didn't want the child, I don't believe he should be responsible to pay to raise that child if the mother has decided she wanted to keep it. It would be one thing if the child was born, the mother thought they would raise the child together, and he winds up running off, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
I wonder what the child would think of this. It's like saying... sorry, your daddy didn't want you, so you get to suffer through your childhood and not receive the support you are entitled to. Fantastic.0 -
This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.
But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.
Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!
Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.
Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.
So much for being adults.
Murder is murder. Abortion is just that, abortion.
Has nothing to do with being adults. It's a difference of opinion.
Let me ask you this...you're pregnant and I, being a horrible individual, kick you in the stomach and kill your child. Am I going to prison for murder? Damn straight I am.
So, how does the fact that the child is your own make it any different?0 -
If he told her from the beginning that he didn't want the child, I don't believe he should be responsible to pay to raise that child if the mother has decided she wanted to keep it. It would be one thing if the child was born, the mother thought they would raise the child together, and he winds up running off, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
He had sex with her. EVERYONE past a certain age knows that, no matter what, if you have sex with the opposite sex, there is a possibility of a child. Knowing that and going ahead with it, should be considered signing on the bottom line.
I know a couple where the woman kept taking the pill even after they married. Neither of them wanted children. He didn't even know she was on the pill, but when he found out he let her know that it wasn't necessary as he had had a vasectomy 20 years before. The next year, she thought she had a tumor because she kept gaining weight in the stomach area. Nope...they were having a baby. Neither one of them ran out on that child. If you have sex, pregnancy is a risk. Period.
^^^EXACTLY THIS^^^
Having sex = possible babies. That means both are responsible. No one can be forced to be physically involve, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be forced to help support that child financially.0 -
This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.
But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.
Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!
I have no interest in a debate about abortion. Focus on the responsibility. The comparison I made was legitimate. Now answer the question.
If you allow someone to do something to your property or person, and they inform you that they don't want to deal with the consequences of those actions, are you really going to absolve them of the responsibility?
Yeah, I really can't answer that.... I can't compare getting pregant to borrowing a car.
Then just answer the generic question that specified nothing in particular except legal liability:
If you allow someone to do something to your property or person, and they inform you that they don't want to deal with the consequences of those actions, are you really going to absolve them of the responsibility?
Okay I will play along. Leaving all comparions out of the picture.
If I let someone borrow my car and they crash it. First I would ask if they could pay for it or help pay, yes. But if they said no, I would not take them to court or try to sue them. I let them borrow my car and accidents happen and that is a risk I took. I have insurance so I would only have to pay the deductible. I would probably never let you borrow my car again and would probably not talk to you ever again.......0 -
Sad thing is, it's always the child who suffers.
QFT 100x over. I am truly shocked at the number of people that think it is okay for dad to not take of his child... EVER!
I don't think it's ok for him to not take care of his child. And however this turns out, it's going to be hard on the child. But, just from my own experience...some people are more harmful to the child by being there and abusing them. My "father" was an abuser and my "stepfather" was an abuser (and that's putting it mildly to call it that).0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.0 -
This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.
But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.
Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!
Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.
Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.
I'm not sure if that is directed towards me, but it is hillarious!!!!0 -
Did he know that she wasnt on the pill?
did he not have common sense to go to walgreens and get some condoms? both are responsible point blank
We don't know and it doesn't matter.If the child was genuinely an accident and your friend knew from the beginning that this guy didn't want kids, then no, he shouldn't hve to pay her child support. If she wanted the kid and he didn't . . . well, I honestly don't feel he's obligated to be part of her life or the kid's life, period.
So, are the courts going to look at each case and try to find out if they made a deal about him not wanting to be a parent? You made it seem like they said beforehand that if she got pregnant, he wasn't going to have anything to do w the kid. That just doesn't happen. Unfortunately, people are irresponsible and have sex without knowing the people that they're sleeping with or without discussing important things like this. And, even in cases where it is discussed, people have been known to lie and say that they'll be around for the kid and/or mother, but walk away.0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
Is the pill 100% effective against pregnancy? NO the only thing that works 100% of the time is NO SEX
Doesn't everyone take sex ed?0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
I agree that deception is wrong and plays a factor in all of this. In this particular situation there was extreme deception. And what you described is also extreme deception. Personally, if I were guy, I would use a condom even if she said she was on the pill.0 -
Sad thing is, it's always the child who suffers.
Yeah, discuss and argue as much as we want, the child is still the innocent victim.
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Sad thing is, it's always the child who suffers.
QFT 100x over. I am truly shocked at the number of people that think it is okay for dad to not take of his child... EVER!
I don't think it's ok for him to not take care of his child. And however this turns out, it's going to be hard on the child. But, just from my own experience...some people are more harmful to the child by being there and abusing them. My "father" was an abuser and my "stepfather" was an abuser (and that's putting it mildly to call it that).
Oh I totally get that. But there is legal recourse to force said abusers to pay child support and that is the topic at hand. To say that dad shouldn't be held responsible for the life of the child because he wanted mom to abort and she refused is just further victimizing the child.0 -
To everyone saying "if he didn't want the baby, it's not his responsibility."
1. That's not the law. If it were, a lot more single moms wouldn't be allowed to file
2. You cannot compel someone to have an abortion. Many people have moral objections to it. Being unable to have an abortion for moral reasons cannot prevent you from child support eligibility.
3. Carry a baby in you for 9 months, feel it grow and kick and hiccup and hear its first cry and then tell me adoption is a viable option for everyone not in an ideal financial situation.
Sex can make a baby. We learn this in 5th grade.0 -
This is a sensitive subject for me! My husband pays child support every week but the mother is jealous of our lifestyle and refuses to let my him stay overnight with us. She is 36 years old, lives at home with her mother, doesn't have a job or a car. She uses every dime we give her for herself. Her nails are always done with wraps and fresh paint. She doesn't have a pot to piss in so how does she afford to get her nails done and buy cigarettes (@ $10 per pack)?. We took my stepson out for dinner and afterwards he wanted to go skating. It was Friday, the same day we give her the weekly check, and he asked her (while on the phone) in front of us "can I go skating", she said "no, I have no money". That ^%*&^%*%*$%$*#%!!!!! Really? Of course, I gave him money out of my own pocket and didn't say a word to him. I never would!
This woman needs to grow up and show her son what real life is like!
We moved to his town to be closer to him. The first day he comes to visit he says "I am going to stay over", She says "of course you are", he says "are you upset, if so, I will come home", she says "don't even bother"
Really? Giving your 14 yr old son a guilt trip for spending time with his Dad, huh? PATHETIC!
As for you friend, I think she needs to ask for help if she truly needs it. I would give my stepson the world, if I knew it was all for him!0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
I agree that deception is wrong and plays a factor in all of this. In this particular situation there was extreme deception. And what you described is also extreme deception. Personally, if I were guy, I would use a condom even if she said she was on the pill.
This. He had as much right and opportunity to protect himself as she did.0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
Yes, he should assume that. Nothing is 100% safe. She could be lying about being on the pill, the pill could fail, she could be stupid and not use it properly. The same thing w the condom.0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
True story: I was hit by someone running a stop sign and they did not have insurance. My insurance had to pay and I was responsible for the deductable. I got a letter from someone (forgot who) saying I could sue the driver who hit me. But I didn't, didn't really care. Everything was taken care of, I wasn't hurt so eh, move on......0 -
Yes, your friend should file for child support. Half of daycare, a portion of rent, half of food, medical care, ext.
This I hope she gets over this stigma and get the support for the child that he/she rightfully deserves.0 -
All these people say if he said "he doesnt want a child or didnt want a child".... then he shouldnt have had sex with her.
its that simple.
You dont want any kids, dont have sex or get fixed.0 -
He's not writing a cheque for the mother. He's writing a cheque or in most unpaid child support cases having his wages garnished so that HIS child's needs/well being/wants are met. The reality of the situation is it works both ways, there are dead beat mothers out there too. AND!!! If you have joint custody with equal shared access, it's not full support its't he difference between both parties' income and proportionate to income daycare/medical/misc expenses.... Don't make it seem like the dad's are so hard done by... they're not.
You have never been a dad in the system. I am betting by your posts that you have been a mom in the system. If so, it's only natural that you would love it. It is set up entirely in your favor.
Serious question here... how so? How is the system set up in the dad's favor? In my particular case, my husband walked out and left me with our two kids. He hasn't seen them in nearly a year. We both work, making roughly the same amount, give or take a couple thousand a year. His child support payment is based off both our incomes, his provision of health insurance, and me having full legal and physical custody. If the roles were reversed and I walked out on him and the kids, I'd be on the hook just as much as he is now. Maybe it just depends on the state you live in? I hear a lot of men say that the system is skewed against them but I haven't seen how, at least in my experience. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.0 -
This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.
But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.
Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!
Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.
Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.
So much for being adults.
Murder is murder. Abortion is just that, abortion.
Has nothing to do with being adults. It's a difference of opinion.
Let me ask you this...you're pregnant and I, being a horrible individual, kick you in the stomach and kill your child. Am I going to prison for murder? Damn straight I am.
So, how does the fact that the child is your own make it any different?
Really? Lets take it a step further. *kitten* vs some dude breaking into your house and assaulting you. How is the fact that someone else is touching you make it any different than touching yourself. Either way you're getting touched, right?:noway:
To answer your question, because my body is mine and yours is yours, and we each get to decide what does or doesn't happen to, or inside of our bodies. It's pretty neat.0 -
This is a sensitive subject for me! My husband pays child support every week but the mother is jealous of our lifestyle and refuses to let my him stay overnight with us. She is 36 years old, lives at home with her mother, doesn't have a job or a car. She uses every dime we give her for herself. Her nails are always done with wraps and fresh paint. She doesn't have a pot to piss in so how does she afford to get her nails done and buy cigarettes (@ $10 per pack)?. We took my stepson out for dinner and afterwards he wanted to go skating. It was Friday, the same day we give her the weekly check, and he asked her (while on the phone) in front of us "can I go skating", she said "no, I have no money". That ^%*&^%*%*$%$*#%!!!!! Really? Of course, I gave him money out of my own pocket and didn't say a word to him. I never would!
This woman needs to grow up and show her son what real life is like!
We moved to his town to be closer to him. The first day he comes to visit he says "I am going to stay over", She says "of course you are", he says "are you upset, if so, I will come home", she says "don't even bother"
Really? Giving your 14 yr old son a guilt trip for spending time with his Dad, huh? PATHETIC!
As for you friend, I think she needs to ask for help if she truly needs it. I would give my stepson the world, if I knew it was all for him!
Good for you for NEVER saying anything about it in front of your step-son! It is NEVER fair to put them in the middle or make it their problem. I bet deep down he would rather live with you guys, but never would say anything because she would make him suffer. Glad he has you both!0 -
Personal bias admittance: I am a single dad. However, I am not paying child support. I am raising my children. They visit their mom, and I have never sought child support from her.
The whole child support system is skewed. I know how much money I would have to pay if I did not have custody of my kids, and the amount that actually cost is a small fraction of that. What child support then equates to is ex wife/ex gf/ex mistress/ex whatever support. Because it is way above and beyond what is actually needed to help raise kids, assuming the dad has a decent job.
I am of the firm belief that if child support were more in line with 1/2 the actual cost of raising kids (two parents, each should pay 1/2 the cost), you would see more people willingly stepping up to take care of it. There is no reason that child support should be based on salary, because the cost of raising the child is not changed by how much dad earns. No guy wants to be saddled paying a ton of money, of which only a fraction is actually needed to raise the kids. The end result is they are supporting a child AND the childs mother. It is immoral to expect a man to financially support a woman for 18+ years because he had a child with her. The child, yes. The woman, no.
There should be a baseline cost for raising kids, with locality adjustments. When child support is to be paid, the paying parent pays 1/2 that amount. It doesn't matter how much you make, you are equally responsible to support the child. And it should be adjusted to account for visitation. If the dad has the kids 30% of the time, his payment should be reduced to reflect that he is feeding, clothing, and sheltering the child 30% of the time.
There is a baseline with locality adjustments (every state differs) and speaking from personal experience and the experiences of several other people I know well, the amount we receive in child support doesn't cover half of what I spend supporting my child. Support includes: housing, food, a car, school clothes (several times a year because they grow so fast!), shoes, school supplies, doctor visits and insurance premiums, extra curriculars and I'm sure there is more I'm missing... But if I averaged out all those things that I spend throughout the year, I guarantee it is more than the $561/mo I am getting in support each month.
All that said, I do understand the frustrations of single dads, I know a few who are in your situation. Don't generalize the support issues. This woman needs to look beyond her pride and start thinking of her child. That male should be paying whatever fair share their state dictates.
The costs should be more than the 561 you get from him, otherwise you would not be contributing anything financially to raising them, the question should be is the $561 more than half the cost? If not then the payments made are subsidizing your portion, not to mention the custodial parent gets all the associated tax breaks of having a dependent.0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
Is the pill 100% effective against pregnancy? NO the only thing that works 100% of the time is NO SEX
Doesn't everyone take sex ed?
Is it not greater than 95% effective? If you read what I said, I said "reasonably be able to assume". Is wearing a seatbelt 100% effective against accident related death?
Puhleese, as if I need a sex ed lesson from you. :laugh:0
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