Child support- what do you think?
Replies
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To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.0 -
This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.
But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.
Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!
Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.
Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.
So much for being adults.
Murder is murder. Abortion is just that, abortion.
Has nothing to do with being adults. It's a difference of opinion.
Let me ask you this...you're pregnant and I, being a horrible individual, kick you in the stomach and kill your child. Am I going to prison for murder? Damn straight I am.
So, how does the fact that the child is your own make it any different?
I am absolutely pro-life and adamantly anti-pro-choice. With that said, this argument isn't a good one. Abortion is the CHOICE of the woman carrying the child. Getting kicked in the stomach would be the actions of someone else completely outside of your control, whether that child was wanted or not. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Also, I realize this isn't a thread on an abortion, but some of the logic in here makes me sick. Saying that she could have had an abortion now that she has a living, breathing child that she has loved from the moment she knew she was pregnant with him/her and to imagine that child no longer existing just...ugh...
On topic: the skeezy guy she had sex with is responsible to support his child.0 -
After my 4 siblings and I were grown adults, my stepfather came to each one of us and asked us to talk our mother into letting him off of paying his $26,000 in arrearages. Because, in his words, we were all adults now and she didn't need the money. (FYI...the support he owed was on his 3 children only. My father paid his for me and one of my siblings.)
Well, guess what, we ALL told him where to get off. My mother did without and worked multiple jobs for many years to make sure there was food on the table, a roof over our heads and, once in awhile, some extras. She deserved every bit of that money to make her life a little easier after stressing about where our next meal would come from. Or, how she was going to pay for glasses needed, etc. All while he sat his butt in a bar night after night. Supporting the bar owners.
To those saying that none of the money should go to the mothers. Who's to say whose dime paid for her new pair of shoes. (If she has a job.) If she works, she is entitled to something too. He pays his amount then spends the rest on what he feels like. Very rarely does the amount of child support cover even a small portion of what it costs to take care of a child.
On the other hand, when I was divorced, we got joint physical custody. We didn' include FOC and there was no child support set up. He maintained a household for the children and so did I. They lived one week with him and one week with me. All "extra's" whether it be needs or wants, were split down the middle. Sometimes, I was having financial difficulty and he would pick up the slack. Sometimes, it was the other way around.
Bottom line is, when we agreed to have children, it was discussed that if divorced ever happened, we still had to co-parent. And, any relationship I've been in since, they understand that my ex-husband is my friend. Both because, we are adults and can manage it and because we share children. Now that they are all grown...same situation. We share a common bond. Though we don't have to, we choose to.
I whole heartedly agree to ALL of the above and KUDDOS to your mom.0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
True story: I was hit by someone running a stop sign and they did not have insurance. My insurance had to pay and I was responsible for the deductable. I got a letter from someone (forgot who) saying I could sue the driver who hit me. But I didn't, didn't really care. Everything was taken care of, I wasn't hurt so eh, move on......
You're very nice bc I would have sued this person for the deductible that I paid. Did your insurance go up?0 -
Sad thing is, it's always the child who suffers.
Yeah, discuss and argue as much as we want, the child is still the innocent victim.
^^^ it really does suck0 -
He's not writing a cheque for the mother. He's writing a cheque or in most unpaid child support cases having his wages garnished so that HIS child's needs/well being/wants are met. The reality of the situation is it works both ways, there are dead beat mothers out there too. AND!!! If you have joint custody with equal shared access, it's not full support its't he difference between both parties' income and proportionate to income daycare/medical/misc expenses.... Don't make it seem like the dad's are so hard done by... they're not.
You have never been a dad in the system. I am betting by your posts that you have been a mom in the system. If so, it's only natural that you would love it. It is set up entirely in your favor.
Serious question here... how so? How is the system set up in the dad's favor? In my particular case, my husband walked out and left me with our two kids. He hasn't seen them in nearly a year. We both work, making roughly the same amount, give or take a couple thousand a year. His child support payment is based off both our incomes, his provision of health insurance, and me having full legal and physical custody. If the roles were reversed and I walked out on him and the kids, I'd be on the hook just as much as he is now. Maybe it just depends on the state you live in? I hear a lot of men say that the system is skewed against them but I haven't seen how, at least in my experience. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.
I agree with you. The State (or at least mine) is concerned with both parents and goes off both incomes. If a mom walked out then she is just as liable as a dad would be!0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
Also, people (men or women) could have std's they are lying about also (or not know about). I wouldn't have sex without a condom, unless married and both tested.0 -
This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.
But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.
Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!
Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.
Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.
So much for being adults.
Murder is murder. Abortion is just that, abortion.
Has nothing to do with being adults. It's a difference of opinion.
Let me ask you this...you're pregnant and I, being a horrible individual, kick you in the stomach and kill your child. Am I going to prison for murder? Damn straight I am.
So, how does the fact that the child is your own make it any different?
My body my choice? I can touch my private parts all day, it's legal. If I touch yours without your consent it is sexual assault. Do you see the difference?0 -
Personal bias admittance: I am a single dad. However, I am not paying child support. I am raising my children. They visit their mom, and I have never sought child support from her.
The whole child support system is skewed. I know how much money I would have to pay if I did not have custody of my kids, and the amount that actually cost is a small fraction of that. What child support then equates to is ex wife/ex gf/ex mistress/ex whatever support. Because it is way above and beyond what is actually needed to help raise kids, assuming the dad has a decent job.
I am of the firm belief that if child support were more in line with 1/2 the actual cost of raising kids (two parents, each should pay 1/2 the cost), you would see more people willingly stepping up to take care of it. There is no reason that child support should be based on salary, because the cost of raising the child is not changed by how much dad earns. No guy wants to be saddled paying a ton of money, of which only a fraction is actually needed to raise the kids. The end result is they are supporting a child AND the childs mother. It is immoral to expect a man to financially support a woman for 18+ years because he had a child with her. The child, yes. The woman, no.
There should be a baseline cost for raising kids, with locality adjustments. When child support is to be paid, the paying parent pays 1/2 that amount. It doesn't matter how much you make, you are equally responsible to support the child. And it should be adjusted to account for visitation. If the dad has the kids 30% of the time, his payment should be reduced to reflect that he is feeding, clothing, and sheltering the child 30% of the time.
Well said!!!! Couldn't agree with you more.0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
Also, people (men or women) could have std's they are lying about also (or not know about). I wouldn't have sex without a condom, unless married and both tested.
agree with both tested, not necessarily married (adultery is not exclusive to singles). however, STDs are a whole separate issue from a potential pregnancy.0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
Also, people (men or women) could have std's they are lying about also (or not know about). I wouldn't have sex without a condom, unless married and both tested.
agree with both tested, not necessarily married (adultery is not exclusive to singles). however, STDs are a whole separate issue from a potential pregnancy.
Oh, yeah...I said married...I just meant committed, monogamous, trusting, prepared to raise a child together. But, unprotected sex happens in marriages (because people have planned pregnancies). But, I agree there are deceitful married people that cheat.0 -
I wish I had the balls to get child support, but I have no interest in the drama. I am just glad I make enough to support my two toddlers on my own (Daycare is not cheap). But I do without so they are with me more (he said he would fight for more custody if I made him pay child support and obviously it would not be because he wants to be a good dad to his kids)... he gets to live with his mistress to split the bills and I get to do it all on my own.
But in that situation, I see no downside. He isn't going to want to have custody of the child, so really there is no lose for her.0 -
Did he know that she wasnt on the pill?
did he not have common sense to go to walgreens and get some condoms? both are responsible point blank
This was my first post in this thread, so I was TRYING to understand exactly what was going on here. There was no need to point blank at me.
If a man tells a girl, I have absolutely no desire to have children with you, i want to do everything possible to prevent this from happening and she says 'lol ok bb whatever you want xoxoxox' and skips the pill and is lazy about tracking her periods even though she KNOWS that he is adamantly against having children...
Well, let's just say that he manned up and explained where he stood on the subject and trusted her and she was careless with his trust - knowing exactly how he felt about everything. And if he told her - which - btw - most couples have a discussion about what would be expected if there was an accidentally pregnancy, that if she got pregnant he was gone, and she got pregnant - she cant really be surprised that he is gone.
I believe, with all my heart, that I am the only one who can prevent myself from getting pregnant (with the exception of rape).
It is entirely my responsibility since i am entirely the one that will be pregnant and have the child.
If I want the right to choose if I carry the baby to term, if I want the right to choose adoption and when or to not have one, if I want the right to take BC or ask for it to be covered by my insurance, if i want the right to make these decisions without interference from anyone else.... then i have to accept that with rights, comes responsibilities.
Since we cannot control the actions of others, we have to control our own actions. Fear of being pregnant and raising a child alone would keep me from gambling.
my own personal opinion - just what i would do in this situation.
no one has to feel like I feel. im not pressuring anyone else to act as i would either.0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
Also, people (men or women) could have std's they are lying about also (or not know about). I wouldn't have sex without a condom, unless married and both tested.
agree with both tested, not necessarily married (adultery is not exclusive to singles). however, STDs are a whole separate issue from a potential pregnancy.
I think she's just drawing a parallel. People are dishonest, you have to take precautions to protect your health or avoid pregnancy0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
99% is pretty damn effective.
So the argument is that everyone should have personal responsibility since they understand the risks involved?
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Personal bias admittance: I am a single dad. However, I am not paying child support. I am raising my children. They visit their mom, and I have never sought child support from her.
The whole child support system is skewed. I know how much money I would have to pay if I did not have custody of my kids, and the amount that actually cost is a small fraction of that. What child support then equates to is ex wife/ex gf/ex mistress/ex whatever support. Because it is way above and beyond what is actually needed to help raise kids, assuming the dad has a decent job.
I am of the firm belief that if child support were more in line with 1/2 the actual cost of raising kids (two parents, each should pay 1/2 the cost), you would see more people willingly stepping up to take care of it. There is no reason that child support should be based on salary, because the cost of raising the child is not changed by how much dad earns. No guy wants to be saddled paying a ton of money, of which only a fraction is actually needed to raise the kids. The end result is they are supporting a child AND the childs mother. It is immoral to expect a man to financially support a woman for 18+ years because he had a child with her. The child, yes. The woman, no.
There should be a baseline cost for raising kids, with locality adjustments. When child support is to be paid, the paying parent pays 1/2 that amount. It doesn't matter how much you make, you are equally responsible to support the child. And it should be adjusted to account for visitation. If the dad has the kids 30% of the time, his payment should be reduced to reflect that he is feeding, clothing, and sheltering the child 30% of the time.
Well said!!!! Couldn't agree with you more.
So if one parent makes 120,000 per year and another parent makes 45,000 per year then they should each pay the same amount? Just trying to get some clarification.
I am re-married and receive child support from my ex for our child. I make more money than him and so my contribution to child support is MORE that what he is responsible for. The child lives with me and is only at his father's 4 days a month (that's 48 days per year). So how exactly is his money going to me and not to my child?0 -
When I was single I always used at least 2 forms of contraception to prevent pregnancy.0
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To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
I agree that deception is wrong and plays a factor in all of this. In this particular situation there was extreme deception. And what you described is also extreme deception. Personally, if I were guy, I would use a condom even if she said she was on the pill.
This. He had as much right and opportunity to protect himself as she did.
This is why I'm always surprised we don't have a male birth control pill. I would think men would want double and triple insurance. I'd want to protect my resources or my anonymity if I was cheating.0 -
Did he know that she wasnt on the pill?
did he not have common sense to go to walgreens and get some condoms? both are responsible point blank
This was my first post in this thread, so I was TRYING to understand exactly what was going on here. There was no need to point blank at me.
If a man tells a girl, I have absolutely no desire to have children with you, i want to do everything possible to prevent this from happening and she says 'lol ok bb whatever you want xoxoxox' and skips the pill and is lazy about tracking her periods even though she KNOWS that he is adamantly against having children...
Well, let's just say that he manned up and explained where he stood on the subject and trusted her and she was careless with his trust - knowing exactly how he felt about everything. And if he told her - which - btw - most couples have a discussion about what would be expected if there was an accidentally pregnancy, that if she got pregnant he was gone, and she got pregnant - she cant really be surprised that he is gone.
I believe, with all my heart, that I am the only one who can prevent myself from getting pregnant (with the exception of rape).
It is entirely my responsibility since i am entirely the one that will be pregnant and have the child.
If I want the right to choose if I carry the baby to term, if I want the right to choose adoption and when or to not have one, if I want the right to take BC or ask for it to be covered by my insurance, if i want the right to make these decisions without interference from anyone else.... then i have to accept that with rights, comes responsibilities.
Since we cannot control the actions of others, we have to control our own actions. Fear of being pregnant and raising a child alone would keep me from gambling.
my own personal opinion - just what i would do in this situation.
no one has to feel like I feel. im not pressuring anyone else to act as i would either.
He was completely aware of the possibility of pregnancy as she was. He had as much opportunity to prevent it that she did.
She has accepted her responsibility. She is raising this child. Just because he stated that he didn't "want" the child, if he didn't practice his own due dilligence in preventing pregnancy, then he is just as responsible as she is.0 -
This!Listen, we only know half of half of the story
We know two grown adults had consensual sex and a child was born. What else do you need to know?
I didn't miss that. I don't see how it changes anything. He should still pay.She found out after her child was born that he was married with kids! His family lived in a different state! They had dated almost a year and he always "traveled" for his job.
I think a lot of you missed this part (as well as most of the content of the actual OP).
Yes, I agree that he should pay. I'm talking about the people that are saying things about how she tricked him or how the system is skewed in favor of women...
And he has the money to pay, if he didn't he just wouldn't pay it. It's not actually enforced. They don't actually make a person pay what they don't have.
In CA it can be up to 50% of your income.
I just had a deal blow up because one of our borrowers paid close to 50% of his substantial income in child support. His new wife made almost what he paid out, but not quite enough to offset his other liabilities or housing payment. With the alimony payment his ex made as much as he did, but her income is tax free. So who was saying the system isn't skewed toward women?
Is it alimony or child support? both? There is a difference there..0 -
Did he know that she wasnt on the pill?
did he not have common sense to go to walgreens and get some condoms? both are responsible point blank
This was my first post in this thread, so I was TRYING to understand exactly what was going on here. There was no need to point blank at me.
If a man tells a girl, I have absolutely no desire to have children with you, i want to do everything possible to prevent this from happening and she says 'lol ok bb whatever you want xoxoxox' and skips the pill and is lazy about tracking her periods even though she KNOWS that he is adamantly against having children...
Well, let's just say that he manned up and explained where he stood on the subject and trusted her and she was careless with his trust - knowing exactly how he felt about everything. And if he told her - which - btw - most couples have a discussion about what would be expected if there was an accidentally pregnancy, that if she got pregnant he was gone, and she got pregnant - she cant really be surprised that he is gone.
I believe, with all my heart, that I am the only one who can prevent myself from getting pregnant (with the exception of rape).
It is entirely my responsibility since i am entirely the one that will be pregnant and have the child.
If I want the right to choose if I carry the baby to term, if I want the right to choose adoption and when or to not have one, if I want the right to take BC or ask for it to be covered by my insurance, if i want the right to make these decisions without interference from anyone else.... then i have to accept that with rights, comes responsibilities.
Since we cannot control the actions of others, we have to control our own actions. Fear of being pregnant and raising a child alone would keep me from gambling.
my own personal opinion - just what i would do in this situation.
no one has to feel like I feel. im not pressuring anyone else to act as i would either.
Eff it, I'm in. Pretty much ^this.0 -
Personal bias admittance: I am a single dad. However, I am not paying child support. I am raising my children. They visit their mom, and I have never sought child support from her.
The whole child support system is skewed. I know how much money I would have to pay if I did not have custody of my kids, and the amount that actually cost is a small fraction of that. What child support then equates to is ex wife/ex gf/ex mistress/ex whatever support. Because it is way above and beyond what is actually needed to help raise kids, assuming the dad has a decent job.
I am of the firm belief that if child support were more in line with 1/2 the actual cost of raising kids (two parents, each should pay 1/2 the cost), you would see more people willingly stepping up to take care of it. There is no reason that child support should be based on salary, because the cost of raising the child is not changed by how much dad earns. No guy wants to be saddled paying a ton of money, of which only a fraction is actually needed to raise the kids. The end result is they are supporting a child AND the childs mother. It is immoral to expect a man to financially support a woman for 18+ years because he had a child with her. The child, yes. The woman, no.
There should be a baseline cost for raising kids, with locality adjustments. When child support is to be paid, the paying parent pays 1/2 that amount. It doesn't matter how much you make, you are equally responsible to support the child. And it should be adjusted to account for visitation. If the dad has the kids 30% of the time, his payment should be reduced to reflect that he is feeding, clothing, and sheltering the child 30% of the time.
Well said!!!! Couldn't agree with you more.
So if one parent makes 120,000 per year and another parent makes 45,000 per year then they should each pay the same amount? Just trying to get some clarification.
I am re-married and receive child support from my ex for our child. I make more money than him and so my contribution to child support is MORE that what he is responsible for. The child lives with me and is only at his father's 4 days a month (that's 48 days per year). So how exactly is his money going to me and not to my child?
Furthermore... is it fair to him to demand we pay the same amount when I make so much more? HOW would that be fair to my son? Then when he is with his Father they would not have money to live or go out and do things?0 -
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I'm still reading through the responses but I just gotta say: If you told me ahead of time that you had a crappy driving record, I would NOT let you borrow my car! THAT'S THE POINT HERE! They both made decisions about having sex, but the woman does have additional options. I will throw out some personal experience: I had unprotected sex once. I was drunk and not worried about finding a condom. My first stop the next morning was at a pharmacy for some Plan B. And don't tell me you can't afford that either, because it's not that expensive, and even through I was a broke college student at the time, that's the sort of thing you MAKE room for in your budget! Give up your latte for a few mornings!0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
99% is pretty damn effective.
So the argument is that everyone should have personal responsibility since they understand the risks involved?
condoms are something like 88% effective (can't google at work) when used properly. the choice to have sex involves a risk of pregnancy, no matter how small. period.*
*I should mention the risk practically disappears when she is on her period.0 -
This!Listen, we only know half of half of the story
We know two grown adults had consensual sex and a child was born. What else do you need to know?
I didn't miss that. I don't see how it changes anything. He should still pay.She found out after her child was born that he was married with kids! His family lived in a different state! They had dated almost a year and he always "traveled" for his job.
I think a lot of you missed this part (as well as most of the content of the actual OP).
Yes, I agree that he should pay. I'm talking about the people that are saying things about how she tricked him or how the system is skewed in favor of women...
And he has the money to pay, if he didn't he just wouldn't pay it. It's not actually enforced. They don't actually make a person pay what they don't have.
In CA it can be up to 50% of your income.
I just had a deal blow up because one of our borrowers paid close to 50% of his substantial income in child support. His new wife made almost what he paid out, but not quite enough to offset his other liabilities or housing payment. With the alimony payment his ex made as much as he did, but her income is tax free. So who was saying the system isn't skewed toward women?
Is it alimony or child support? both? There is a difference there..
In our income calculations they are regarded as one in the same. In his case it was child support, although my coworkers and I have gotten into the bad habit of using the terms interchangeably. My mistake for not specifying properly.0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
99% is pretty damn effective.
So the argument is that everyone should have personal responsibility since they understand the risks involved?
yes, everyone has personal responsibility. no pointing of fingers allowed. I know people who missed one pill and truly did not want children who even took the morning after pill still got pregnant. nothing is 100%. Except, well, not doing anything at all0 -
This is a topic I have thought about alot and I am still not sure I have made my mind up completely.
But for now, I do not think the father owes any child support if he said from the beginning of the pregnancy that he did not want the child. I don't think it's fair that women can choose to have an abortion or not and the father has no say so in the matter.
Wow! Abortion is NOT a form of birth control. So you are suggesting that because she opted not to end the life of the child he helped her create, then he is completely absolved from responsibility?
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I don't want to get in a debate about abortion......I should have known better when I posted this!
Yeh, probably should have known better since it's such a hot topic.
Abortion is murder. Not a contraceptive.
So much for being adults.
Murder is murder. Abortion is just that, abortion.
Has nothing to do with being adults. It's a difference of opinion.
Let me ask you this...you're pregnant and I, being a horrible individual, kick you in the stomach and kill your child. Am I going to prison for murder? Damn straight I am.
So, how does the fact that the child is your own make it any different?
My body my choice? I can touch my private parts all day, it's legal. If I touch yours without your consent it is sexual assault. Do you see the difference?
So, the only thing that matters is your own, selfish, feelings?
A child is not a choice. It's a human being. If you want to harm yourself, go for it. You don't, or should I say, shouldn't have the right to harm the child. Where is his/her choice?0 -
To throw fuel on the fire:
If a woman claims to be on the pill and a man doesn't use a condom, shouldn't he reasonably be able to assume pregnancy will not occur? There are risks to everything. We assume another driver is carrying insurance and won't get into a wreck.
well, if you completely ignore the fact that people lie about being on an oral contraceptive, the pill is only 99% effective if taken according to the medication's literature. this includes taking it at the same time (within a ~3 hour window), every day, without fail. based on the habits of the women I know on the pill, yes, he should wear a condom unless he is prepared to handle a potential pregnancy.
99% is pretty damn effective.
So the argument is that everyone should have personal responsibility since they understand the risks involved?
condoms are something like 88% effective (can't google at work) when used properly. the choice to have sex involves a risk of pregnancy, no matter how small. period.*
*I should mention the risk practically disappears when she is on her period.
Wait wait wait... are you saying that when a woman on her period the pregnancy risk is decreased??0 -
Women can also track their cycles in addition to contraception. The book "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" teaches you how to do that with two tracking methods used together...you need to use both.
I'm only sharing this because I am concerned about the lack of sex ed among adults I am seeing in this thread. What's done is done and there should not be judgement on that. But, people can be educated now and make educated choices (now and in the future).0 -
So if I you let me borrow your car, but I had a crappy driving record, and informed you of it ahead of time, and then totalled your car, you would absolve me of the responsibility of paying for your car??
I'm still reading through the responses but I just gotta say: If you told me ahead of time that you had a crappy driving record, I would NOT let you borrow my car! THAT'S THE POINT HERE! They both made decisions about having sex, but the woman does have additional options. I will throw out some personal experience: I had unprotected sex once. I was drunk and not worried about finding a condom. My first stop the next morning was at a pharmacy for some Plan B. And don't tell me you can't afford that either, because it's not that expensive, and even through I was a broke college student at the time, that's the sort of thing you MAKE room for in your budget! Give up your latte for a few mornings!
Okay... but the scenario is in past tense. For whatever reason, you still allowed me to drive your car, in spite of my driving record, (maybe you had ridden with me in my car and felt confident with my driving) and I still totalled it. I totalled your car and you knew I had a bad driving record. By the logic of the original poster, I'm not responsible for paying for your car.0
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