Calories in calories out
Replies
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You have no studies. You have provided nothing to prove calories in calories out. It also just has random studies. It has been debunked by scientists. Its all over the internet. You guys cannot prove anything. Your articles are biased. Science doesn't consider all the variables. So that doesn't work.
So we have a clear admission here the OP does not believe science works. Case closed.0 -
Now, you may be wondering about things like hormonal resistances and metabolic rates and whatever it is you kooky kids have come up with with all your sciencings that might affect your weight loss rate. Surely those count, right? Of course they do, dear shy ones, of course they do. However, what they are is a modifier on our core cal in vs cal out equation. Please take note that c in vs c out is always listed as a comparison of variables, not of absolute figures. This is to account for the many, many differences between different people. So when someone tells you it's all about how much you vs how much you burn, they aren't dismissing any metabolic concerns you may have. They are pointing out that those concerns don't change hwat you have to do to lose, gain, or maintain weight; eta less/ as much/ more than what you use up by existing and doing whatever it is you do. You just may have been hit with a condition or (sadly for you) a set of conditions that results in you needing to eat even less than someone else to lose weight, even of your the same height, weight, gender, age, and activity level.
Clearly. I personally eat a deficit, that is how I lose weight, DUH. But what I was saying was this doesn't work for everyone, possibly because of health problems they dont even know they had.
I'm getting the distinct impression you may not have read the part of my post I left in, which covers that in simple, kindly old grandma like words. Please reread and try again.0 -
You have no studies. You have provided nothing to prove calories in calories out. It also just has random studies. It has been debunked by scientists. Its all over the internet. You guys cannot prove anything. Your articles are biased. Science doesn't consider all the variables. So that doesn't work.
So we have a clear admission here the OP does not believe science works. Case closed.
This situation has variables, stop trying to use science when it was controlled studies and not people with any problems. Since our bodies are not engines they do not burn calories the way this "module" you people would die by explains.0 -
It's been mentioned that for the GENERAL POPULATION, calorie in and out work. Those that have hormonal issues or disease have to do something else.Clearly. I personally eat a deficit, that is how I lose weight, DUH. But what I was saying was this doesn't work for everyone, possibly because of health problems they dont even know they had.
Yet you're arguing against scientific research and study relating to how the GENERAL POPULATION bodies don't lose weight on calorie in/out. What's your real agenda? Are you lonely? Do you just want to debate?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
You have no studies. You have provided nothing to prove calories in calories out. It also just has random studies. It has been debunked by scientists. Its all over the internet. You guys cannot prove anything. Your articles are biased. Science doesn't consider all the variables. So that doesn't work.
No studies = bad.
Any studies we provide = bad.
Any studies/editorials/etc you provide = good.
It's on the internet = good.
Science = bad/doesn't work.
Got it. Thank you for clearing that up.0 -
It's beem mentioned that for the GENERAL POPULATION, calorie in and out work. Those that have hormonal issues or disease have to do something else.Clearly. I personally eat a deficit, that is how I lose weight, DUH. But what I was saying was this doesn't work for everyone, possibly because of health problems they dont even know they had.
Yet you're arguing against scientific research and study relating to how the GENERAL POPULATION bodies don't lose weight on calorie in/out. What's your real agenda? Are you lonely? Do you just want to debate?
Is it hard to understand that maybe the people i knew were not the general "population". Oh look I met the exception to the rule, is that, that shocking? lol really0 -
As much fun as this has been, I'm just going to have to default to...
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The closest I have:hmm googles "calories in calories out flawed" is in denial about the first 10 pages of articles and facts stated that clearly explains why this doesn't apply or work 100% of the time.
As it has been pointed out, if you damage your metabolism you may need a different amount of calories, therefore it doesn't work because you could think you need one amount but you could not be losing because of a damaged metabolism. 100% would be if their were ZERO variables, but since there are tons, its not black and white, the body is not a simple machine, people do not burn the same and it doesn't always work this simply.
Do you not realize that you are agreeing with calories in/out in 1 sentence then disagreeing with it in the next sentence, after posting that calories don't exist?
Oh my G is there a gif for "on the one hand, on the other hand, and on the OTHER other hand"?
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Nah. I flex in the mirror and look at all the success my clients have and have much gratitude to science for getting it. Science helped me to help them. How are you helping your friends? That working out okay?
And you are still in denial about the fact that you are not right.
Gravity is a theory. Just sayin'.Yes aliens, vampires, big foot, I believe everything I read on the internet. I even believe all the scientific THEORIES, i hear that are not proven as fact. Just as crazy....
You're unconvinced. We get it. You're wrong, but we get it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
You have no studies. You have provided nothing to prove calories in calories out. It also just has random studies. It has been debunked by scientists. Its all over the internet. You guys cannot prove anything. Your articles are biased. Science doesn't consider all the variables. So that doesn't work.
So we have a clear admission here the OP does not believe science works. Case closed.
This situation has variables, stop trying to use science when it was controlled studies and not people with any problems. Since our bodies are not engines they do not burn calories the way this "module" you people would die by explains.
Buuuut it works when you provide googled editorials? Riiiight.0 -
I know this story too well, i grew up with it. My elder brother has always been the skinny one and i was(am) the fat one! Growing up it was always like he eats so much and still skinny whereas i ate lesser and still gained a lot of weight pretty quick, i was always supposed to watch what i ate in order to maintain. I always got told by my mom that she never watched her calories, and never gained weight. Ate a lot of rice too!.
But over a period of time as i matured and learnt on MFP, i realized that, my brother or mom never ate anything between meals, zip! And i graze through the day on tiny stuff that adds up at the end of the day. I constantly have the habit of eating one bite here, one bite there, which nobody seems to notice and i got told i ate like a bird LOL!
So calories in calories out is definitely true!0 -
No one said all of science in the whole world doesn't work. Hive mind sheep do think alike. As it was said. You people are lemmings. You all believe everything you nurtionalists and the mainstream health departments have told you. Thats why you believe this garbage. Its not science, its in place to sell diet food and products. But you can keep being naive to it
Anger is evident.
We are lemmings.
Best thread of the day.0 -
Summary of this thread:
Original Post claiming that mutually agreed-upon principles of metabolism accepted by virtually every authority in the world are somehow wrong and that some people can eat a surplus of calories and not gain weight, so it must be conversely true that others can eat a deficit and not lose weight.
Flood of scientifically sound, well-sourced and cited peer-review literature to show the OP's claims are not supported and that an energy balance is the best and most reliable model found to-date. MIllions upon millions of anecdotal and scientific claims to support this.
OP responds to virtually every post with 'I know my belief to be true, you should google it like I have' and "if you don't agree, then you're not smart enough to understand what you googled'
Flooding of evidence that energy balance is irrefutable.
OP shifts argument to attacking the unit of measure 'calorie' and then reverts to the special snowflake theory when no one bites.
Hilarious. Seeing it like this, I feel like we've all been epic'ly trolled.
I called it pages ago :laugh:0 -
No one said all of science in the whole world doesn't work. Hive mind sheep do think alike. As it was said. You people are lemmings. You all believe everything you nurtionalists and the mainstream health departments have told you. Thats why you believe this garbage. Its not science, its in place to sell diet food and products. But you can keep being naive to it
Actually, science has disproven that lemmings act in the way you are accusing.0 -
Nah. I flex in the mirror and look at all the success my clients have and have much gratitude to science for getting it. Science helped me to help them. How are you helping your friends? That working out okay?
And you are still in denial about the fact that you are not right.
Gravity is a theory. Just sayin'.Yes aliens, vampires, big foot, I believe everything I read on the internet. I even believe all the scientific THEORIES, i hear that are not proven as fact. Just as crazy....
You're unconvinced. We get it. You're wrong, but we get it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Ahh I get it. You come on a calorie counter website to reiterate that same brainwashed advices you learned at institution? Ahh college learned personal trainer. hahahahah. You are spoon fed false information to reiterate back to people. Your education is a joke.0 -
No one said all of science in the whole world doesn't work. Hive mind sheep do think alike. As it was said. You people are lemmings. You all believe everything you nurtionalists and the mainstream health departments have told you. Thats why you believe this garbage. Its not science, its in place to sell diet food and products. But you can keep being naive to it
Actually, science has disproven that lemmings act in the way you are accusing.
I didn't say lemmings act anyway. I said you people are lemmings.0 -
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As much fun as this has been, I'm just going to have to default to...
me too, i gotta bounce but here's a whole turkey for y'all, and it shows perfectly why "whole foods" diet is too hard. for me at least.
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Lol so they have health issues? And if so, then WTF are you arguing about? It's been mentioned several times that people with health issues WON'T see the same results as those who don't. But wait, science does have an explanation for that.
It's beem mentioned that for the GENERAL POPULATION, calorie in and out work. Those that have hormonal issues or disease have to do something else.Clearly. I personally eat a deficit, that is how I lose weight, DUH. But what I was saying was this doesn't work for everyone, possibly because of health problems they dont even know they had.
Yet you're arguing against scientific research and study relating to how the GENERAL POPULATION bodies don't lose weight on calorie in/out. What's your real agenda? Are you lonely? Do you just want to debate?
Is it hard to understand that maybe the people i knew were not the general "population". Oh look I met the exception to the rule, is that, that shocking? lol really
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
No one said all of science in the whole world doesn't work. Hive mind sheep do think alike. As it was said. You people are lemmings. You all believe everything you nurtionalists and the mainstream health departments have told you. Thats why you believe this garbage. Its not science, its in place to sell diet food and products. But you can keep being naive to it
Actually, science has disproven that lemmings act in the way you are accusing.
I didn't say lemmings act anyway. I said you people are lemmings.
Lemmings don't weigh very much.0 -
Google fu isn't actual research. It's searching for answers you want to hear..........Google "calories in calories out flawed" and look at the billions of pages.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
And there is tons of scientific information on why this doesn't work
Can you post some of it? You can start here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
tons of things have been posted. Google is your friend. Do the work..I know its hard
You are the one making the claims, not me. The burden of proof is on you, I fear.
If google is your friend consider her your bad friend who holds up a small hand held mirror that provides the incomplete picture and doesn't tell you where to look. You have to then grab that mirror and point it where you want. You can either let her keep it on your face where everything's hunky dory, or take it from her, move it all around your body and notice where the truth might lie and then focus your efforts there. OR get a full length mirror with 2 swivel doors on the side to see all the sides of the situation. This final option will require that you expand your mentality enough to then form a mental image of the problem in it's entirety an then use your own selective prowess to hone in on where work needs to be done.
Insert Standing ovation gif.
Well said.
(Sorry at work on phone so no gif)
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No one said all of science in the whole world doesn't work. Hive mind sheep do think alike. As it was said. You people are lemmings. You all believe everything you nurtionalists and the mainstream health departments have told you. Thats why you believe this garbage. Its not science, its in place to sell diet food and products. But you can keep being naive to it
So, we're at the big conspiracy stage, now are we? So, this begs the question; what diet food is being advanced by calories in vs calories out, again? Which products? Seriously, who stands to gain from "no specific foods make you fat. No specific exercise product will make you not fat. Products which say they will help you lose weight without diet or excersice is a pile of crap"?0 -
Ah, so you're pissed off at the fitness industry. Got it now. Good thing to be pissed off about it because there are alot of myths and broscience by them.No one said all of science in the whole world doesn't work. Hive mind sheep do think alike. As it was said. You people are lemmings. You all believe everything you nurtionalists and the mainstream health departments have told you. Thats why you believe this garbage. Its not science, its in place to sell diet food and products. But you can keep being naive to it
But we're speaking in terms of actually science relating to physiology, endocrinology and body mechanics. Don't discredit the work and research that these entities provide because you have a beef with the fitness industry's propoganda.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
No one said all of science in the whole world doesn't work. Hive mind sheep do think alike. As it was said. You people are lemmings. You all believe everything you nurtionalists and the mainstream health departments have told you. Thats why you believe this garbage. Its not science, its in place to sell diet food and products. But you can keep being naive to it
So, we're at the big conspiracy stage, now are we? So, this begs the question; what diet food is being advanced by calories in vs calories out, again? Which products? Seriously, who stands to gain from "no specific foods make you fat. No specific exercise product will make you not fat. Products which say they will help you lose weight without diet or excersice is a pile of crap"?
I KNOW I KNOW
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I predict a the evils of sugar diatribe coming next... perhaps with a youtube link.No one said all of science in the whole world doesn't work. Hive mind sheep do think alike. As it was said. You people are lemmings. You all believe everything you nurtionalists and the mainstream health departments have told you. Thats why you believe this garbage. Its not science, its in place to sell diet food and products. But you can keep being naive to it
So, we're at the big conspiracy stage, now are we? So, this begs the question; what diet food is being advanced by calories in vs calories out, again? Which products? Seriously, who stands to gain from "no specific foods make you fat. No specific exercise product will make you not fat. Products which say they will help you lose weight without diet or excersice is a pile of crap"?0 -
Yep, that's how straw man arguments work. Don't be mad because I actually help people with correct information. Hatin' on me just shows your maturity level.
Nah. I flex in the mirror and look at all the success my clients have and have much gratitude to science for getting it. Science helped me to help them. How are you helping your friends? That working out okay?
And you are still in denial about the fact that you are not right.
Gravity is a theory. Just sayin'.Yes aliens, vampires, big foot, I believe everything I read on the internet. I even believe all the scientific THEORIES, i hear that are not proven as fact. Just as crazy....
You're unconvinced. We get it. You're wrong, but we get it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Ahh I get it. You come on a calorie counter website to reiterate that same brainwashed advices you learned at institution? Ahh college learned personal trainer. hahahahah. You are spoon fed false information to reiterate back to people. Your education is a joke.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I predict a the evils of sugar diatribe coming next... perhaps with a youtube link.
Oh, I'll bet $20 and the favor of Llolth that the link will be to Lusting.0 -
I predict a the evils of sugar diatribe coming next... perhaps with a youtube link.No one said all of science in the whole world doesn't work. Hive mind sheep do think alike. As it was said. You people are lemmings. You all believe everything you nurtionalists and the mainstream health departments have told you. Thats why you believe this garbage. Its not science, its in place to sell diet food and products. But you can keep being naive to it
So, we're at the big conspiracy stage, now are we? So, this begs the question; what diet food is being advanced by calories in vs calories out, again? Which products? Seriously, who stands to gain from "no specific foods make you fat. No specific exercise product will make you not fat. Products which say they will help you lose weight without diet or excersice is a pile of crap"?
Hey! These are facts, guys!
- 100% of people die
- 100% of people eat sugar
- We can safely conclude that sugar is 10000% deadly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ 0 -
My experience is consistent with this model.Your weight is actually determined by Renenet, the ancient Egyptian god of harvest and nourishment. She writes down (in hieroglyphics, with bad handwriting, in cypher) what you will weigh every single day. Whatever you eat has precisely jack squat to do with what you weight. Trying to screw with Renenet's decrees will always fail. Always.0 -
You know what, screw it. OP, you are totally right. Calories in vs calorie out totally isn't right. Your weight is actually determined by Renenet, the ancient Egyptian god of harvest and nourishment. She writes down (in hieroglyphics, with bad handwriting, in cypher) what you will weigh every single day. Whatever you eat has precisely jack squat to do with what you weight. Trying to screw with Renenet's decrees will always fail. Always.
Now that we've made OP feel better about whatever they were on about, let's turn our attention to any lurkers or googlers who may have stumbled upon this thread. Now, silent folks, you may have noticed that pretty much everyone disagrees with the OPs disbelief in calories in vs calories out. Contrary to what some more displeased members of the site would lead you to believe, this isn't because MFP is some cruel hive mind hell bent on making people feel stupid for the lulz. It is because calorie in vs calorie out is the most fundamental point to weight lose, weight maintenance, and weight gain.
Now, you may be wondering about things like hormonal resistances and metabolic rates and whatever it is you kooky kids have come up with with all your sciencings that might affect your weight loss rate. Surely those count, right? Of course they do, dear shy ones, of course they do. However, what they are is a modifier on our core cal in vs cal out equation. Please take note that c in vs c out is always listed as a comparison of variables, not of absolute figures. This is to account for the many, many differences between different people. So when someone tells you it's all about how much you vs how much you burn, they aren't dismissing any metabolic concerns you may have. They are pointing out that those concerns don't change hwat you have to do to lose, gain, or maintain weight; eta less/ as much/ more than what you use up by existing and doing whatever it is you do. You just may have been hit with a condition or (sadly for you) a set of conditions that results in you needing to eat even less than someone else to lose weight, even of your the same height, weight, gender, age, and activity level.
To determine if this is required of you, if life decided to be a bit mean to you on this, track what you eat. No eyeballing, now. No "forgetting" to write it down, we both know you didn't forget, now did you? Of course not. Keep accurate track of all of that. Now, and this is a bit trickier, but make your best effort, track your activity level. Do this for about a month. Now compare the two. What do the numbers predict will happen? What actually happened? If the numbers said you'd lose more than you did by a significant amount, eat less, or up your activity level. Repeat until the numbers are within about 2% or so of each other. If you had to do this a lot, see a doctor, because you really shouldn't need to do that so much, and that could indicate a medical problem.
Clearly. I personally eat a deficit, that is how I lose weight, DUH. But what I was saying was this doesn't work for everyone, possibly because of health problems they dont even know they had.
It does work for everyone, because "calories in/calories out" (meaning calories taken in are either burned, expelled, or stored) is not just science, it's a truism, unless you think there are people whose bodies don't run on energy. Obviously there are variations in how different bodies burn, expel, and store energy at different times. It's a real pain that every year as a I get older I'm like to burn marginally fewer at-rest calories. If I get the flu or diarrhea, I may expel food without extracting the full caloric value. And of course online calculator, which rely on user-supplied data and only offer four or five specific points for activity level factors when common sense indicates that it's an analog scale and the vast majority of people will fall between predetermined points, are not going to be closer than the general ballpark, if that, in determining your TDEE or TDEE before exercise, as MFP does. It's a starting point. Measure, track, and over time you can maybe do the math yourself based on calories consumed and weight gained or lost to figure out your maintenance level, but even that is only going to be an estimate, because pretty much all of your exercise burns are estimates and unless you only eat food you've prepared yourself from whole foods, some of your calories consumed will be estimated. The fact that we have to rely on less-than-perfect data doesn't make the underlying equation that we're plugging the data into wrong.
Your body doesn't manufacture calories out of nowhere, nor does it whisk it them into nonexistence.0
This discussion has been closed.
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