Clean Eating Bashing?
Replies
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I just wish there was a different name for it. "Eat clean" and "Lift heavy" are just so ungrammatical.
On this note I get annoyed when people say "pick up heavy things." Heavy things? So you went to the gym to lift refrigerators? Benched a microwave? You lifted weights. Let's not make the whole process more grand than it really is.
People get their panties in a bunch of you say "weights" or "barbells" because there are ways to "lift heavy" that don't involve those things.
"Lift heavy" means to do resistance training that so significantly taxes your muscles you can't do large numbers of reps.
People just like to get their panties in a bunch in general. Half the time it doesn't matter what you say...
Well, ^that is an insulting thing to say.
How dare you.
HOW DARE YOU!!! :mad:0 -
Avoiding saturated fat is another myth, as there are plenty of heart healthy saturated fats (butter and coconut oil for example.)
There are many nutrition experts and scientists (I would guess most) that would disagree that butter should be considered a healthy fat.
Mmmmm butter, I like butter too. This is why I can't "eat clean", I love butter. But I do get locally made butter from the Amish community near by. Oh man it is the best butter ever!!
Butter would be more 'clean' than margarine.0 -
Avoiding saturated fat is another myth, as there are plenty of heart healthy saturated fats (butter and coconut oil for example.)
There are many nutrition experts and scientists (I would guess most) that would disagree that butter should be considered a healthy fat.
Mmmmm butter, I like butter too. This is why I can't "eat clean", I love butter. But I do get locally made butter from the Amish community near by. Oh man it is the best butter ever!!
Butter would be more 'clean' than margarine.
Yeah I'm not a margarine fan. I like the real stuff.0 -
There are an awful lot of people who are going to find something to pick on you for, no matter what.
I can't say I eat "clean" 100% of the time, but do aim to eat healthier more natural foods most of the time.
Would I be healthier if I avoided all processed foods and cooked everything from scratch myself after raising a lot of it on my own farm or buying it from organic food growers? Yes, I probably would be... I'd also be flat broke and in debt... but that is another story.
I do think that eating unprocessed foods is best, but for some people its just too hard to do. They are going to be better off if they can stay in their calorie range and at least avoid obesity than than they would be if they tried clean eating for a week, got discouraged, and went back to overeating.
So basically, I guess I am saying doing what works for you. Eat as healthy as YOU can given your personality, financial situation, culture, etc. And if what you are doing is working for you, don't worry about what anyone else says.0 -
I eat mostly whole foods because it means I can eat more food and feel full longer. I don't know if I would consider my diet "clean", because I feel like the definition of clean eating is ever changing... organic, paleo/primal, blah, blah, etc, etc.
For the sake of this post I'm going to refer to those who eat processed food and fast food "dirty" eaters" -- not because I feel that they are dirty, so don't jump down my throat.
The reason the "dirty" eaters and the "clean" eaters have so much animosity towards one another is because of the limitless condescension both sides display. The "my way is the only way" attitude is elementary and ridiculous.
I've seen many "dirty" eaters claiming that eating fried/processed/fast food that is calorically equivalent to whole foods is no different for your body and that there is no real health benefits to eating whole foods. Come on now... really? I mean, seriously?
What works best, is what works best FOR YOU. If you are able to stick to your calorie allotment and eat what you like, then YAY! Whatever you are able to maintain in the long run is always best.
I couldn't care less about how you or anyone else eats. I care about how I eat and how my son eats. I like eating what I consider healthy foods because it makes me feel good and I feel like I am teaching my son how to have a healthy relationship with food.
OP, I thought your post was well written and has inspired me to look into local farmers markets.
This sums it all up. Well said.0 -
Obviously, from a health standpoint, nutrient dense foods will do a better job at helping you meet your nutritional needs.
Except that the term "nutrient dense" as used is so detached from what it actually means that it is practically backwards.
Cookies are nutrient dense.
Vegetables are extremely sparse nutritionally.
People so worship at the alter of micronutrients, downright pointlessly I might add, and so demonize macronutrients, that discussion of nutrients is nonsensical. One would survive FAR longer on a diet of pure cookies than a diet of pure broccoli.
Eat a variety of foods and micronutrients aren't a concern. Nutrient deficiencies are rare in those without a very limited diet (with the exception of pregnant women).
This goes back to a theory of mine, that the vast majority of people in western society learned the basics of nutrition by reading cereal boxes while eating breakfast as a kid; with all the distortions the advertising and labeling creates. And that initial education creates a self reinforcing feedback loop (since noone is going to say that vitamins/minerals are bad) where much of society drastically overemphasizes micronutrients; people's idea of what is and isn't healthy food is to pretty much grade/tally how high the %'s are for each micronuturient, exactly how cereal advertises how crazy healthy it is (along with dumb slogans and catchphrases).
People would be MUCH better off shifting their ideas of nutrition and healthy/unhealthy foods from the amount of micronutrients found in food instead to the protein to calorie ratio of food. The protein to calorie ratio matters much, much more; "empty calories" are not calories that don't come with much in the way of micronutrients, "empty calories" are calories that don't come with much in the way of protein, which is the nutrient that matters, a lot, and you need a lot of it.0 -
I follow the 80/20 rule too. I don't believe 100% clean eating is the only way to achieve your goals. I believe if you eat mostly healthy and fit in "bad" stuff in MODERATION or ONCE IN A WHILE you can do that too. You don't have to give up the "dirty" food you love as long as it's not a majority of your diet or once in a while.0
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I just wish there was a different name for it. "Eat clean" and "Lift heavy" are just so ungrammatical.
On this note I get annoyed when people say "pick up heavy things." Heavy things? So you went to the gym to lift refrigerators? Benched a microwave? You lifted weights. Let's not make the whole process more grand than it really is.
Ever hear of odd object training?0 -
Obviously, from a health standpoint, nutrient dense foods will do a better job at helping you meet your nutritional needs.
Except that the term "nutrient dense" as used is so detached from what it actually means that it is practically backwards.
Cookies are nutrient dense.
Vegetables are extremely sparse nutritionally.
People so worship at the alter of micronutrients, downright pointlessly I might add, and so demonize macronutrients, that discussion of nutrients is nonsensical. One would survive FAR longer on a diet of pure cookies than a diet of pure broccoli.
Eat a variety of foods and micronutrients aren't a concern. Nutrient deficiencies are rare in those without a very limited diet (with the exception of pregnant women).
This goes back to a theory of mine, that the vast majority of people in western society learned the basics of nutrition by reading cereal boxes while eating breakfast as a kid; with all the distortions the advertising and labeling creates. And that initial education creates a self reinforcing feedback loop (since noone is going to say that vitamins/minerals are bad) where much of society drastically overemphasizes micronutrients; people's idea of what is and isn't healthy food is to pretty much grade/tally how high the %'s are for each micronuturient, exactly how cereal advertises how crazy healthy it is (along with dumb slogans and catchphrases).
Well said, good points, and mind blown.
Great...
...now I want Lucky Charms.
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I "eat clean" because I wanted to change everything about myself. When I ate crap all the time I had no energy, my bmi was 62 % and my A1C was 14%. After 11 months of clean eating and hitting the gym daily I am a completely new person. If people can achieve what I have still eating processed foods and other crap, good on you.. I needed to change.0
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I just wish there was a different name for it. "Eat clean" and "Lift heavy" are just so ungrammatical.
On this note I get annoyed when people say "pick up heavy things." Heavy things? So you went to the gym to lift refrigerators? Benched a microwave? You lifted weights. Let's not make the whole process more grand than it really is.
Unless you're flipping tires, hauling sandbags, moving cinderblocks, or doing a bench press/squat/deadlift with chains added.0 -
I'd like to think my BF% has gone down along my road to fit and it wasn't a chore doing so. If a certain eating style fits you, fine. But I'll keep being dirty and healthy. Okay, I'll bathe on occasion, too.. just to be a little cleaner.0
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I just wish there was a different name for it. "Eat clean" and "Lift heavy" are just so ungrammatical.
On this note I get annoyed when people say "pick up heavy things." Heavy things? So you went to the gym to lift refrigerators? Benched a microwave? You lifted weights. Let's not make the whole process more grand than it really is.
Are microwaves heavy? Ineffective bench weight/object seems ineffective0 -
Avoiding saturated fat is another myth, as there are plenty of heart healthy saturated fats (butter and coconut oil for example.)
There are many nutrition experts and scientists (I would guess most) that would disagree that butter should be considered a healthy fat.
True...there are many who are still influenced by the lipid hypothesis. These same people once espoused margarine as a preferable alternative to butter...and they pushed the low-fat approach to dieting. Not every expert keeps up with the latest research. That doesn't mean they are right.
(Personally, I'm firmly in the "butter is healthy" camp.)
Many still say margarine is preferable to butter, if the margarine contains no partially hydrogenated oils. Though most would likely recommend using less of both. To be an expert, one would have to keep up with the latest research.
I find there is too much bias, ignorance, and propaganda to believe anyone who claims to be an expert on food science. Butter is awesome, but margarine is cheaper, so I use both for different reasons. Screw all the "experts!" :laugh:0 -
processed foods and other crap
This is why clean eating invites so much backlash. Because it, by definition, calls other foods "crap" or "unclean" or "dirty" or "unhealthy."0 -
I notice when i eat more processesed.foods.i feel like ****. I like a balance. My diet is prob 70/30 clean vs not. I love using whole.ingredients and cooking my own food. But i still like my breads n pastas and i work it in.0
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I "eat clean" because I wanted to change everything about myself. When I ate crap all the time I had no energy, my bmi was 62 % and my A1C was 14%. After 11 months of clean eating and hitting the gym daily I am a completely new person. If people can achieve what I have still eating processed foods and other crap, good on you.. I needed to change.
HOLY CRAP @ your A1C! Mothertruck that's high! Were you snorting sugar for breakfast? My husband's was 7 at his last doctor's appointment, and he got an earful from me about it for sneaking sugary snacks and not doing his daily walk.0 -
Holy crap, I absolutely did first learn about vitamins from the backs of my Captain Crunchberry boxes. That, along with the Flintstone vitamins is where all of my original micronutrient programming came from. I never thought about it in those terms.
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I "eat clean" because I wanted to change everything about myself. When I ate crap all the time I had no energy, my bmi was 62 % and my A1C was 14%. After 11 months of clean eating and hitting the gym daily I am a completely new person. If people can achieve what I have still eating processed foods and other crap, good on you.. I needed to change.
HOLY CRAP @ your A1C! Mothertruck that's high! Were you snorting sugar for breakfast? My husband's was 7 at his last doctor's appointment, and he got an earful from me about it for sneaking sugary snacks and not doing his daily walk.
Ha! yea I was.. lines of sugar to wake me up... aka starbucks.0 -
For me, I eat clean because I've eaten at a deficit using processed foods and have eaten at a deficit eating more whole foods and I simply feel more energetic, get sick less often, and have less gastrointestinal problems when I eat cleaner. The issue is not about weight loss for me, it's about overall well-being.
Has anyone ever tried both and noticed no difference in how they feel? I'm just curious. I'm open to the possibility that my experience is not yours. :flowerforyou:
I kept the part most relevant to my experience and findings. I've been on both sides. In my younger days I ate anything and everything. Fast food, junk food, processed food, even some normal "healthy" food. While yes I was lean, could bench press a house and was in shape...my energy levels were low, my digestive system an utter disaster, and would badly want a nap every day after lunch. Fast forward many years and the shift to eating a predominantly "clean" diet comprised mostly of whole foods, with the occasional ice cream, or other sweet treat and my energy levels are high and constant, no crashing mid afternoon and my digestive system does not cause me any issues or discomfort at all. The change in my energy and the way I feel is all the proof I need to continue to eat the way I do.0 -
processed foods and other crap
This is why clean eating invites so much backlash. Because it, by definition, calls other foods "crap" or "unclean" or "dirty" or "unhealthy."
No no don't get it wrong, clean eating didn't call it "other crap" .. I did. If I was to begin to tell you what I used to eat daily, you might agree a little :laugh:0 -
Obviously, from a health standpoint, nutrient dense foods will do a better job at helping you meet your nutritional needs.
Except that the term "nutrient dense" as used is so detached from what it actually means that it is practically backwards.
Cookies are nutrient dense.
Vegetables are extremely sparse nutritionally.
People so worship at the alter of micronutrients, downright pointlessly I might add, and so demonize macronutrients, that discussion of nutrients is nonsensical. One would survive FAR longer on a diet of pure cookies than a diet of pure broccoli.
Eat a variety of foods and micronutrients aren't a concern. Nutrient deficiencies are rare in those without a very limited diet (with the exception of pregnant women).
I agree.
Maybe I wasn't very clear. When I think of "nutrient dense" foods, I think of foods that pack a variety of macro and micro nutrients. I didn't mean to imply that lettuce was more nutrient dense or necessarily better for you than a cookie, and I certainly don't demonize macronutrients.
Besides, I like cookies.0 -
processed foods and other crap
This is why clean eating invites so much backlash. Because it, by definition, calls other foods "crap" or "unclean" or "dirty" or "unhealthy."
No no don't get it wrong, clean eating didn't call it "other crap" .. I did. If I was to begin to tell you what I used to eat daily, you might agree a little :laugh:
Haha if you knew his food diary, you'd know he wouldn't agree. :laugh:0 -
For me, I eat clean because I've eaten at a deficit using processed foods and have eaten at a deficit eating more whole foods and I simply feel more energetic, get sick less often, and have less gastrointestinal problems when I eat cleaner. The issue is not about weight loss for me, it's about overall well-being.
Has anyone ever tried both and noticed no difference in how they feel? I'm just curious. I'm open to the possibility that my experience is not yours. :flowerforyou:
I kept the part most relevant to my experience and findings. I've been on both sides. In my younger days I ate anything and everything. Fast food, junk food, processed food, even some normal "healthy" food. While yes I was lean, could bench press a house and was in shape...my energy levels were low, my digestive system an utter disaster, and would badly want a nap every day after lunch. Fast forward many years and the shift to eating a predominantly "clean" diet comprised mostly of whole foods, with the occasional ice cream, or other sweet treat and my energy levels are high and constant, no crashing mid afternoon and my digestive system does not cause me any issues or discomfort at all. The change in my energy and the way I feel is all the proof I need to continue to eat the way I do.
This has been my experience as well...0 -
This goes back to a theory of mine, that the vast majority of people in western society learned the basics of nutrition by reading cereal boxes while eating breakfast as a kid; with all the distortions the advertising and labeling creates.
Dear Lord, what a scary theory.0 -
Clean eating doesn't mean much to me. How does it differ from eating whole-foods? Genuine question by the way!
PS apologies for butting in without reading the whole thread, but it's very loooong
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I agree! This is myFITNESSpal, not myWEIGHTLOSSpal. Eating clean contributes to fitness in more ways than eating twinkies at a deficit does.
Why does eating twinkies mean you aren't fit?
NO ONE SAID THAT! This is exactly what I'm talking about.
It was implied that eating twinkes = not fit.
Still waiting on the three ways eating clean contributes more to fitness than eating "twinkies" or whatever else does.
It was not implied. You inferred it.
3 Reasons: Meeting your nutritional needs before you eat exclusively snacks is on its face better for you or nutritional guidelines would not exist at all. Twinkies take a great deal of processing and transporting of ingredients to accomplish, which contributes to water and air pollution, neither or which are good for you. Twinkies contain a lot of corn-based ingredients which contribute to the mono-cropping of American and threaten the sustainability of the food system.
Do your own freaking research on Twinkies. You are lazy for making me do it for you.
I see some people on here that survive exclusively on fast food and I really don't want to pay for your Obamacare for you.
I was really enjoying your intelligent non-judgmental conversation about why you eat clean, a lot of the points you bring up are valid and admirable ..... then you spit out that last sentence, and all of a sudden *BAM* a political, judgmental, harsh statement about fellow MFP users.
That is an example of you "bashing" on those who don't eat the way that you do, and it discredits your argument, as you are doing the same thing that you are asking others not to do.
To each their own, I don't judge, I just do what works for me.0 -
In to hear more about these elusive standards of health that can't be objectively measured . . .
Because human beings are such simple systems that everything can be objectively assessed...
Part of the issue is that "eat clean" is in itself a meaningless statement. At what point does that become "only eat things one has picked from the bushes oneself", or "only eat meat one has personally slaughtered and dressed".
There are second and third order considerations around how food is processed prior to reaching the consumer. Personally I try to avoid meat that isn't free range as I'm very aware of the animal welfare aspects. Grew up in a rural area and around farm animals. It also tastes far better, and it seems to be a bit leaner.
As far as wellbeing is concerned there are lots of intangibles, although causality =/= causation. If one is more sensitive to the food chain does that make one more thoughtful about what one eats, how it's prepared and what is the effect of that on what one consumes? What's the psychological effect of actually taking the time to prepare food. Personally I find cooking quite therapeutic, it's something I revert to when I'm stressed as the process of preparation helps me relax. How does one quanitfy all of that?
Moving on to actually growing food, again what's the effect of that process, since we make choices about our time what are we choosing not to do as we're spending time on that?
Whilst anecdote is not evidence, much of the evidence is quite narrow and there isn't a significant amount that looks at the whole system.
Essentially it's all about choices, and if some find that their lifestyle becomes improved as a result of their choices then that's a good thing. Of course "improved" remains undefined and is very much a subjective thing as well.0 -
For me, it seems like a lot of people that vehemently advocate for extreme clean eating don't have a super great understanding for science. For example, I have a friend that's all about the primal lately. She also refuses to use a microwave because it uses RADIATION! Likewise, whatever fad thing that has lots of blogs written about its benefits has what amounts to magical properties for health. No one can seem to explain exactly how the magic works. It's just magic.
I said earlier that I try to eat pretty clean and it seems to work pretty well for me. I did forget to mention I don't eat organic. I don't think it's necessary and I can't afford it. I have an animal science background, I've seen the various studies in various journals, and I am just not convinced that GMOs, antibiotics, growth hormones, etc are all that terrible. Changing a gene of something and then eating it is not going to turn you into a mutant.
So that's my general impression of the more extreme proponents of it. Again, I am moving in the direction of eating a cleaner diet but I don't have any grandiose ideas of what it does for me.0 -
What?
Just because I don't "eat clean" doesn't mean I don't put effort into my meals or grab a box of twinkles or fast food. The vast majority of food I make is from scratch because I enjoy cooking, I enjoy the prep. When I make lemon meringue pie, I make everything from scratch, including squeezing the lemons. I make my own pasta and sauce. It takes hours. Not exactly lazy.
It's not about effort.
ETA - the arrogance of that post floors me.
I'm not sure why you are associating home cooked meals with my comments, which only referenced junk food and fast food. It sounds like you are trying very hard to be offended.0
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