Clean Eating Bashing?
Replies
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Losing weight eating crap was quick, but my skin and hair were awful, I slept all the time and couldn't concentrate, I got sick easily and I was always bloated.
I lose weight eating well slowly, I feel and look better.
I think it's just a basic nutrient thing, ****ty diets have ****ty nutritional profiles and lead to ****ty deficiencies.
based on your symptoms, your "losing weight while eating crap" experience sounds more like you were "losing weight while on a overly severe calorie deficit"0 -
I love it when you let a thread take off and don't look at it for a few hours and realize hardly anyone has even considered the original points you were trying to make which were only two:
1) Do you feel better when you eat cleaner than when you eat primarily processed foods? (If you've tried it.)
2) Do you care about the sustainability of the food system? Nope, went right back to a calorie is a calorie.
Seems most people on MFP can only argue four topics: 1) Is a calorie just a calorie? 2) Is a 1200 calorie diet okay? 3) Cardio vs. Weights? and 4) Is starvation mode real?
The last and final thing I want to say is that while you are in high school and even undergrad, you learn about "objective science" and the system focuses very little on qualitative research. Now everyone who is not trained in qualitative research assumes that personal experience is all anecdotal. In reality, when one gets to graduate school or beyond, many people learn that qualitative research is what gives quantitative research context. So anyone who argues that qualitative research or subjective experience is not valid is just not as educated as they could be in principles of research. They are two equally important sides of the coin in research.
I'm out, peeps, Have fun!0 -
Losing weight eating crap was quick, but my skin and hair were awful, I slept all the time and couldn't concentrate, I got sick easily and I was always bloated.
I lose weight eating well slowly, I feel and look better.
I think it's just a basic nutrient thing, ****ty diets have ****ty nutritional profiles and lead to ****ty deficiencies.
So was it losing weight fast vs slow or "clean" vs "dirt" or some combination of both that produced those effects?
I don't think you can say it is one over the other.
Lots of people of great nutrient profiles on what many here consider to be dirty diets. It's not all or nothing. You can eat "dirty" and still meet your nutrition needs.0 -
I love it when you let a thread take off and don't look at it for a few hours and realize hardly anyone has even considered the original points you were trying to make which were only two:
1) Do you feel better when you eat cleaner than when you eat primarily processed foods? (If you've tried it.)
2) Do you care about the sustainability of the food system? Nope, went right back to a calorie is a calorie.
Seems most people on MFP can only argue four topics: 1) Is a calorie just a calorie? 2) Is a 1200 calorie diet okay? 3) Cardio vs. Weights? and 4) Is starvation mode real?
The last and final thing I want to say is that while you are in high school and even undergrad, you learn about "objective science" and the system focuses very little on qualitative research. Now everyone who is not trained in qualitative research assumes that personal experience is all anecdotal. In reality, when one gets to graduate school or beyond, many people learn that qualitative research is what gives quantitative research context. So anyone who argues that qualitative research or subjective experience is not valid is just not as educated as they could be in principles of research. They are two equally important sides of the coin in research.
I'm out, peeps, Have fun!
lol...maybe if you had not been quite so pompous in your OP and insulting in your follow up post it may have evolved a little differently. You asked some questions - two explicit and one implied, in an OP which included a not so subtle insult, and you got responses/answers. You also exhibited exactly the same attitude that gets 'non-clean' eaters backs up and effectively became the perfect example of the answer to your question.
And since when was clean suddenly defined as organic local produce?
Example...from your OP
" I don't think it's appropriate to disparage those want to put more effort into their own health and the health of society just because you're not at that point."
^^insinuates that you are more evolved in some way and that others have failed to meet your standards and is insulting on many levels. You know what, I do not give a rats *kitten* about your standards and am not striving to them. I doubt you meet mine on many levels.
BTW: those were not your questions in the OP, so do not act all condescending for people not answering them. Where was #2 in your OP?0 -
I love it when you let a thread take off and don't look at it for a few hours and realize hardly anyone has even considered the original points you were trying to make which were only two:
1) Do you feel better when you eat cleaner than when you eat primarily processed foods? (If you've tried it.)
2) Do you care about the sustainability of the food system? Nope, went right back to a calorie is a calorie.
Seems most people on MFP can only argue four topics: 1) Is a calorie just a calorie? 2) Is a 1200 calorie diet okay? 3) Cardio vs. Weights? and 4) Is starvation mode real?
The last and final thing I want to say is that while you are in high school and even undergrad, you learn about "objective science" and the system focuses very little on qualitative research. Now everyone who is not trained in qualitative research assumes that personal experience is all anecdotal. In reality, when one gets to graduate school or beyond, many people learn that qualitative research is what gives quantitative research context. So anyone who argues that qualitative research or subjective experience is not valid is just not as educated as they could be in principles of research. They are two equally important sides of the coin in research.
I'm out, peeps, Have fun!
yeah, i'm soooooo sorry that we didn't made up, anecdotal, "i feel better"-based science and moralizing guilt trip arguments persuade us. but i do appreciate all of your contributions to obamacare.
here, i'll let you borrow a flounce gif since you forgot to post one with your "I'm out" message.
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I eat clean because processed foods trigger my eczema and my weightloss journey helped me gear towards clean eating. I'm a fan of doing rigorous home workout videos, and I need the energy from whole foods. I don't wanna waste my calories on junk food but don't get me wrong i still sneak in a candy or two sometimes and turkey bacon. I love turkey bacon hehe but most days of the week I keep it clean. And I dont eat much chips either as well as canned/bottled/powdered juices, and I stopped drinking sodas 2 years ago.0
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I love it when you let a thread take off and don't look at it for a few hours and realize hardly anyone has even considered the original points you were trying to make which were only two:
1) Do you feel better when you eat cleaner than when you eat primarily processed foods? (If you've tried it.)
2) Do you care about the sustainability of the food system? Nope, went right back to a calorie is a calorie.
Seems most people on MFP can only argue four topics: 1) Is a calorie just a calorie? 2) Is a 1200 calorie diet okay? 3) Cardio vs. Weights? and 4) Is starvation mode real?
The last and final thing I want to say is that while you are in high school and even undergrad, you learn about "objective science" and the system focuses very little on qualitative research. Now everyone who is not trained in qualitative research assumes that personal experience is all anecdotal. In reality, when one gets to graduate school or beyond, many people learn that qualitative research is what gives quantitative research context. So anyone who argues that qualitative research or subjective experience is not valid is just not as educated as they could be in principles of research. They are two equally important sides of the coin in research.
I'm out, peeps, Have fun!
lol...maybe if you had not been quite so pompous in your OP and insulting in your follow up post it may have evolved a little differently. You asked some questions - two explicit and one implied, in an OP which included a not so subtle insult, and you got responses/answers. You also exhibited exactly the same attitude that gets 'non-clean' eaters backs up and effectively became the perfect example of the answer to your question.
And since when was clean suddenly defined as organic local produce?
Example...from your OP
" I don't think it's appropriate to disparage those want to put more effort into their own health and the health of society just because you're not at that point."
^^insinuates that you are more evolved in some way and that others have failed to meet your standards and is insulting on many levels. You know what, I do not give a rats *kitten* about your standards and am not striving to them. I doubt you meet mine on many levels.
BTW: those were not your questions in the OP, so do not act all condescending for people not answering them. Where was #2 in your OP?
This.0 -
I'm curious for those who self-identify as clean-eaters: what percentage of the time do you think a person has to eat completely clean in order to call themselves a clean eater?0
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I love it when you let a thread take off and don't look at it for a few hours and realize hardly anyone has even considered the original points you were trying to make which were only two:
1) Do you feel better when you eat cleaner than when you eat primarily processed foods? (If you've tried it.)
2) Do you care about the sustainability of the food system? Nope, went right back to a calorie is a calorie.
Seems most people on MFP can only argue four topics: 1) Is a calorie just a calorie? 2) Is a 1200 calorie diet okay? 3) Cardio vs. Weights? and 4) Is starvation mode real?
The last and final thing I want to say is that while you are in high school and even undergrad, you learn about "objective science" and the system focuses very little on qualitative research. Now everyone who is not trained in qualitative research assumes that personal experience is all anecdotal. In reality, when one gets to graduate school or beyond, many people learn that qualitative research is what gives quantitative research context. So anyone who argues that qualitative research or subjective experience is not valid is just not as educated as they could be in principles of research. They are two equally important sides of the coin in research.
I'm out, peeps, Have fun!
What total dosh.
One does not get to call a personal experience "qualitative research" and raise it on some pedestal of science. And in this, your attempt, to use "I'm more educated in the prinicipals of science" as some sort of argument insulting the character of those that disagree with you, just sits on top of other logical fallacies.0 -
Clean eating suffers in that it's name has no meaning. There are no "clean" foods... it greatly matters from the individuals point of view. A "clean" eater will look at ice cream and say NO WAY... that will raise my insulin and drive all those nasty sugar calories right into fat storage (if you believe the insulin hypothesis of fat gain). Whereas the bodybuilder might look at that same ice cream and say, you know, if I eat this as part of my post workout meal, the insulin response will help drive the amino acids straight into my muscles and the sugar will refuel my glycogen stores. So this one particular food can be deemed a "treat" in one context and a necessity in another...0
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Ugh, Twinkies have a shelf life if 20 days. That's not long at all. Eggs have a shelf life of about 6 weeks, more than twice as long. What must those chickens be pumping into those eggs to get them to last so long?!I'm not sure what exactly clean eating is defined as specifically... but I feel like offering my two cents:
I am not trying to be one of those snotty people acting like they eat so much better than everyone else... but it really does matter where you get your calories from. My diet is not perfect (I love bread!), but I'm reading this book called Forks over Knives - which is also a documentary - and it's lead me to completely rethink what I eat everyday. I've started doing my own research and I'm experimenting on myself, too. I'm working on cutting out animal products, refined sugars, and overly processed foods and replacing them with plant based whole foods to see how I feel. So far I feel great! No cravings for meat or sugar. I feel very full on a 1,200 a day diet - and that's with running every day! Plus I've lost about 4 pounds since starting this about a week and a half ago.
I'm not trying to DIS anyone for anything they eat, all I'm saying is do some RESEARCH into the things you eat and the effect it could have on your health! Haven't you wondered what it is they stuff inside those Twinkies that make them have such a long shelf life? What could it hurt you to check into it?
Maybe check out some studies done by Dr. T. Colin Campbell and Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr. They are the doctors the Forks over Knives book and documentary focus on.
Again, all I'm saying is look into your diet.
And "Forks Over Knives?" Really? A biased documentary with a clear agenda and you immediately decided to base all your nutritional and diet ideas on it without even doing real, unbiased research?0 -
LOL. Myth after myth. I think you've hit them all. There are no fruits and vegetables direct from nature. Everything you eat currently has been drastically altered by humans over the last few hundred years. Carrots used to be purple. Cucumbers used to be poisonous. The list goes on. You say unprocessed foods, but then advocate meat from a butcher. That meat is highly processed in order to get to the butcher (very few butchers have the time or space to take live animals and completely break them down themselves, and besides, even if he did, that's still a high amount of processing.)CLEAN EATING
There is no direct definition for "clean eating". Specifically, clean eating is NOT a diet - it is a lifestyle choice. Clean eating is not a new concept, as a matter of fact clean eating has been around for quite some time. Those involved with health, fitness or nutrition from competitors to personal trainers and health conscious individuals have been practicing "clean eating" for years.
One with many benefits that include:
Fat Loss
Weight Loss
Increased Energy
Clearer Skin
Shinier Hair
Better Sleep
Increased mental well -being
When someone makes the choice to eat "clean" they are choosing to eliminate all processed foods and extra additives from their diet. Basically, you are choosing to eat whole, unrefined foods.
The basics of eating clean include - eating lots of fruits and vegetables. These are straight from nature - the idea is to stay away from anything that may have been altered in any way.
Include meats, however; "whole" meats that you have chosen straight from the butcher or prepared yourself. You would be very surprised to find out what is actually in ground turkey.
Enjoy whole grains - these are grains that are still complete and haven't been broken down in any form. Examples include: brown rice, whole wheat and other whole grains. You will have to get used to reading over food labels. Just because a product says its "whole grain" does not mean it is. It also does not mean they have not added a bunch of other ingredients as well.
Eat fewer ingredients - try not to purchase items with more than 4-6 ingredients in the ingredient list. Also, be sure you recognize every ingredient. If you can't pronounce it, you probably shouldn't put it in your body.
Simple Guidelines for Success:
Eating small frequent meals 5-6 times per day to level blood sugar and prevent hunger
Include lean protein, complex carbohydrates and heart healthy fats in each meal choice
Avoid ALL processed and/or refined foods (sugar, baked goods, candies, white flour, white rice, etc)
Avoid saturated and trans fats
Avoid sodas, high calorie juices and other drinks that give your body no nutritional value and lots of unnecessary (unwanted) calories
Avoid high calorie, non nutritious foods (i.e. junk food)
Drink at least 8 cups of water per day
5-6 meals a day is completely false. Total calories matter, eat as many or as few meals as you like.
8 glasses of water a day is a myth.
Complex carbohydrates like brown rice are just as highly processed as more refined carbohydrates, unless you are farming the grains yourself.
Avoiding saturated fat is another myth, as there are plenty of heart healthy saturated fats (butter and coconut oil for example.)
This is exactly the kind of post that causes "clean eating bashing." It's a bunch of nonsense, that's completely unsubstantiated by fact, with definitions that are twisted and changed to fit into whatever the "clean eater" wants to consider "clean," even if it contradicts the definition they've already stated.
Also, I know very few professional athletes that eat clean.0 -
So your saying you've got nothingBlah Blah Blah
I'm out, peeps, Have fun!0 -
Why the feck do people insist on putting labels on the way they eat, other than to feel smug or self satisfied against others? It really annoys the ****e out of me.
I eat food. It happens to be home cooked from fresh ingredients mainly grown in my garden. I'm lucky to do this as I can afford it and live in the bush so have the space, most don't have this luxury. I don't eat processed food or fast food as a matter of personal choice purely because what I cook is much nicer. Again some people don't have that option. I was taught to eat this way by my grandparents (both obese) and my parents (dad died of heart disease mum has hypertension).
"Clean eating" is just a label. It is not a magic bullet that will stop you getting sick, at some point in the future you will die however much kale you eat now. It will not stop you from getting fat if you eat to much of it. It is a meaningless label. Eat the food you enjoy, make sure you don't eat too much and try and make it as nutritious as you can reasonably afford.
Sustainability is a different argument altogether0 -
Is Taco Bell clean?
I like Los locos tacos.
If I mixed a bag of Doritos in with chipotle would that be better?0 -
I just want to know how starbuck's sugar filled drinks are considered "clean". I get a PM from a clean eater who has a problem with me eating pizza, yet I go to their diary and they stop just about every morning for starbucks. " Clean" eating is apparently just a way to feel superiority over other people based on dietary choices.0
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Some "clean" eaters don't seem to have a problem with drinking alcohol either.I just want to know how starbuck's sugar filled drinks are considered "clean". I get a PM from a clean eater who has a problem with me eating pizza, yet I go to their diary and they stop just about every morning for starbucks. " Clean" eating is apparently just a way to feel superiority over other people based on dietary choices.0 -
In for choosing chocolate milk and peanut butter on Ritz over brown rice and water!0
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Some "clean" eaters don't seem to have a problem with drinking alcohol either.I just want to know how starbuck's sugar filled drinks are considered "clean". I get a PM from a clean eater who has a problem with me eating pizza, yet I go to their diary and they stop just about every morning for starbucks. " Clean" eating is apparently just a way to feel superiority over other people based on dietary choices.
I am guessing that this is one of the reason there is no agreed upon definition of "clean eating". Seems to me that it is really about moderation. Eat nutrient dense foods to make sure you meet your goals and then squeeze in some starbucks. Are we all just devided over what % of "dirty" foods is excepted as a healthy balance?0 -
LOL. Myth after myth. I think you've hit them all. There are no fruits and vegetables direct from nature. Everything you eat currently has been drastically altered by humans over the last few hundred years. Carrots used to be purple. Cucumbers used to be poisonous. The list goes on. You say unprocessed foods, but then advocate meat from a butcher. That meat is highly processed in order to get to the butcher (very few butchers have the time or space to take live animals and completely break them down themselves, and besides, even if he did, that's still a high amount of processing.)
5-6 meals a day is completely false. Total calories matter, eat as many or as few meals as you like.
8 glasses of water a day is a myth.
Complex carbohydrates like brown rice are just as highly processed as more refined carbohydrates, unless you are farming the grains yourself.
Avoiding saturated fat is another myth, as there are plenty of heart healthy saturated fats (butter and coconut oil for example.)
This is exactly the kind of post that causes "clean eating bashing." It's a bunch of nonsense, that's completely unsubstantiated by fact, with definitions that are twisted and changed to fit into whatever the "clean eater" wants to consider "clean," even if it contradicts the definition they've already stated.
Also, I know very few professional athletes that eat clean.
QFT. Nice.0 -
Subscribed for the conversation.
OP, I agree with you. I don't believe you "have" to eat clean to be healthy, but it definitely can't hurt.
It definitely can hurt. Preventable disease.0 -
To me, clean eating just means don't eat overly processed foods like things you would find in the frozen foods section or things you would buy at fast food joints.
All the food today is tainted by humans with either hormones or chemicals anyway, so it's not like you can actually eat like our ancestors do.
I think I eat a *relatively* clean diet. Lots of fruits, veggies, and meat. Every now and then I'll eat something sweet and processed like a cupcake or cookie, and from time to time I'll have alcohol. Fast food is a no no though....always and forever.0 -
Why the feck do people insist on putting labels on the way they eat, other than to feel smug or self satisfied against others? It really annoys the ****e out of me.
I eat food. It happens to be home cooked from fresh ingredients mainly grown in my garden. I'm lucky to do this as I can afford it and live in the bush so have the space, most don't have this luxury. I don't eat processed food or fast food as a matter of personal choice purely because what I cook is much nicer. Again some people don't have that option. I was taught to eat this way by my grandparents (both obese) and my parents (dad died of heart disease mum has hypertension).
"Clean eating" is just a label. It is not a magic bullet that will stop you getting sick, at some point in the future you will die however much kale you eat now. It will not stop you from getting fat if you eat to much of it. It is a meaningless label. Eat the food you enjoy, make sure you don't eat too much and try and make it as nutritious as you can reasonably afford.
Sustainability is a different argument altogether
I agree labels are really not important but rather peer-reviewed science on what can mitigate preventable disease. Yes. None of us get out of it alive but you can significantly reduce your chance of preventable disease. We are not a slave to our genetics as is usually espoused in our culture. I don't believe we should just "eat whatever we want to eat" because if I did that I would have diabetes.0 -
Why the feck do people insist on putting labels on the way they eat, other than to feel smug or self satisfied against others? It really annoys the ****e out of me.
I eat food. It happens to be home cooked from fresh ingredients mainly grown in my garden. I'm lucky to do this as I can afford it and live in the bush so have the space, most don't have this luxury. I don't eat processed food or fast food as a matter of personal choice purely because what I cook is much nicer. Again some people don't have that option. I was taught to eat this way by my grandparents (both obese) and my parents (dad died of heart disease mum has hypertension).
"Clean eating" is just a label. It is not a magic bullet that will stop you getting sick, at some point in the future you will die however much kale you eat now. It will not stop you from getting fat if you eat to much of it. It is a meaningless label. Eat the food you enjoy, make sure you don't eat too much and try and make it as nutritious as you can reasonably afford.
Sustainability is a different argument altogether
I agree labels are really not important but rather peer-reviewed science on what can mitigate preventable disease. Yes. None of us get out of it alive but you can significantly reduce your chance of preventable disease. We are not a slave to our genetics as is usually espoused in our culture. I don't believe we should just "eat whatever we want to eat" because if I did that I would have diabetes.
Yes, most of us got fat because we ate anything we wanted.
What he means by "eat what you want" is "eat the particular foods you enjoy, but do so in a responsible manner."
The focus should be on nutrients, not labels. Give your body the nutrients it needs to perform optimally and don't worry about whether those nutrients come from "good" or "bad" foods.0 -
I see some people on here that survive exclusively on fast food and I really don't want to pay for your Obamacare for you.
I don't want to pay for your "Obamacare" either. I'm all for personal responsibility and freedom instead. I didn't get to vote on it though. *shrugs*0 -
My concept of clean eating: consuming high quality food in reasonable proportions. By high quality, I mean having high nutritional content as well as high food integrity standards (organic, natural, and or minimally or unprocessed). Striving toward these standards should be the goal, even though it is understood that eating clean 100% (or even 80-90%) of the time is often impossible.
I don't see how people construe this as "feeling superior" - they are probably the same people who teased the smart kids in school for getting good grades.0 -
My concept of clean eating: consuming high quality food in reasonable proportions. By high quality, I mean having high nutritional content as well as high food integrity standards (organic, natural, and or minimally or unprocessed). Striving toward these standards should be the goal, even though it is understood that eating clean 100% (or even 80-90%) of the time is often impossible.
I don't see how people construe this as "feeling superior" - they are probably the same people who teased the smart kids in school for getting good grades.
Your words here are fine.
The "feeling superior" part is when people who eat the way you do say things like: "well I eat this way because I actually care about my health" or "others aren't quite prepared to make this sort of commitment to their health" or "everyone should eat this way because I don't want to pay for their Obamacare" or other such inflammatory nonsense.0 -
Wait, so eating clean just means hitting your nutritional needs? So you mean IF IT FITS YOUR MACROS, it's ok?I agree! This is myFITNESSpal, not myWEIGHTLOSSpal. Eating clean contributes to fitness in more ways than eating twinkies at a deficit does.
Why does eating twinkies mean you aren't fit?
NO ONE SAID THAT! This is exactly what I'm talking about.
It was implied that eating twinkes = not fit.
Still waiting on the three ways eating clean contributes more to fitness than eating "twinkies" or whatever else does.
It was not implied. You inferred it.
3 Reasons: Meeting your nutritional needs before you eat exclusively snacks is on its face better for you or nutritional guidelines would not exist at all. Twinkies take a great deal of processing and transporting of ingredients to accomplish, which contributes to water and air pollution, neither or which are good for you. Twinkies contain a lot of corn-based ingredients which contribute to the mono-cropping of American and threaten the sustainability of the food system.
Do your own freaking research on Twinkies. You are lazy for making me do it for you.
I see some people on here that survive exclusively on fast food and I really don't want to pay for your Obamacare for you.
Tigersword FTW~ :drinker:0 -
To me, clean eating just means don't eat overly processed foods like things you would find in the frozen foods section or things you would buy at fast food joints.
All the food today is tainted by humans with either hormones or chemicals anyway, so it's not like you can actually eat like our ancestors do.
I think I eat a *relatively* clean diet. Lots of fruits, veggies, and meat. Every now and then I'll eat something sweet and processed like a cupcake or cookie, and from time to time I'll have alcohol. Fast food is a no no though....always and forever.
Cupcake or cookie occasionally is fine, but food from the frozen foods section or any fast food ever are not?
I think this is the kind of arbitrary line that some people struggle to understand.
(That said, feel free to eat however you want. I have my own arbitrary lines myself. (For example, I generally don't eat cupcakes or cookies, but frequently eat ice cream and eat at Chipotle.)0 -
If you're not washing your foods before you cook, then you eat dirty.
"Clean Eating" is BS. You have a liver and kidneys which "clean your system. The same goes for "Detoxing" your body. Bunch of crap. While they "work" they do more harm. Do your research.
If you want to "eat clean" then eat foods without the processed crap. Easy peasy.
That is what I mean by clean....non processed. I don't get where ppl are talking about cleanses and stuff. Lol. Is this the enema thread? Whoops my bad lol
where do you draw the line at "processed"...how exactly are the black beans in a can so much filthier than if I spent all day making my own black beans? When it comes down to it, everything has some, at least, minimal processing just to get it to your store.
For me...personally....the line is drawn at what I can afford and what I can't live without.
Boxed dinners (hamburger helper etc) I will not buy. I do buy organic cereal but rarely eat it (cereal doesn't agree with me).
I buy my veggies, fruits, and eggs from my local farmers as much as I can. I get organic if I can afford it.
Protein....Can't afford the high dollar stuff.
Ben and Jerry's....will not live without
Werd!
Breyer's4Lyfe!
Gotta side with Jof on this one. Breyer's > Ben & Jerry's0
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