Does quality of food matter if you remain within calories?

Sarauk2sf

I implied that they are holding themselves back. I did not say they did not have impressive physiques. Please understand I am talking people with low bf. No one I talk to that has a handle on their bf consistently eats junk. It just doesn't happen unless they are young adults.


I assure you that a bodybuilder isn't eating junk 8 weeks out of competition. It's a tight as it gets. They will junk up post contest. and pre stage to get fullness back from carb depletion. Off season is a completely different story because they are usually bulking. I'm surprised that you haven't heard of the 1.5g to 2g of protein per pound in the of LBM in the BB lifesyle considering you are bring up bodybuilding examples.

I realized that you implied that they are holding themselves back, as I noted - and again, I disagree with the blanket statement. You can assure me all you want, but I know of a lot of competitive bb'ers that eat some 'junk' 8 weeks out and often closer to their comp. However, this is all pretty much a strawman. Most people on here are not in contest prep and are not looking to get to the leanness of competitive bb'ers, so using them as an example of not incorporating some 'junk' is rather silly. The reason I raised them was to point out that even extremely lean people with a lot of muscle mass who get on stage skinless incorporate some for much of their diet.

You are making a rather large assumption that I have not heard of the 1.5 - 2g of protein per lb of LBM. I have. My comment was on your 300g of protein (especially as compared to the relatively low carb intake). The research I have seen indicates that this is 'overkill'. Write up did on Eric Helm's research, just so you do not continue to make assumptions that I am not familiar with protein recommendations!

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1158604-eric-helms-protein-research

I did not say that there was anything wrong your protein intake - however, and also noted that if it works for your re energy, satiation etc, then it is beneficial to you re energy and adherence. It does not mean that it is the same for others.


As a side note, you may find these interesting re the need post workout carbs and protein for optimal MPS http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-53.pdf

SideSteel

1.5g per pound of lean bodymass is very common in the lifting world. I'm not going to try and validate it. I've done the high junk carb macros and I sit around 15 to 16% bf when I do that. I am doing my diet and I peel off 2% of bf a month with more energy than I've ever had once I've adapted to this. I'm not advocating my diet to anyone. I never said anything about anyone doing my diet. I know it's extreme. So people, don't do my diet. I'm not advocating it. I think people are intelligent and they can see the results of people and their diets. They can come to their own conclusions.

What you can't see in my pictures is my extreme vascularity in my arms/forearms. Trainers/dieticians at my gym do say 20% is lower than most of their clients but then they say they can't argue with my results and tell me to continue to do what I do.

Again, the question was does quality of food matter. I say yes it does if you are trying to maintain a particular look. I'd rather diet down to a muscular fit body than diet down to a scrawny body. I've had both scrawny and fit. I prefer fit.

And with respect to carbs. I'd rather have carbs from healthy foods rather than junk carbs that wreak havoc with insulin levels. The only time I would do a junk carb is post workout with a ton of protein to create the insulin for protein absorbtion and uptake. Or a quick carb load to make the muscle fuller and more vascular, but that is a temporary. Otherwise, I stick with steel cut oats and brown rice and vegatables for source of carbs.

I do take a cheat day every 10 days and eat junk carbs if I so choose but I find my cravings for these types of food diminishing as I get my bf lower. I have eaten 600 carbs and 5900 calories on a cheat day two months ago. Now my cheats are typically 275 carbs and around 4500 cals.

If you eat junk food then it's taking up budget that a clean whole food could take in it's place. A clean whole food on any given day is better than junk. So why hold yourself back? Assuming you are pushing yourself to your limits in the gym. Any impressive physique you see will tell you that protein should be eaten through whole foods and not protein powders. They eat whole foods and a most of their protein through real meats not powders. There isn't any special powder to help you reach those goals. Real food is the secret.

Anyway, thanks for reading. I think I'm done with suggesting real food is better than junk food.

The problem is that you are neglecting context in your reply.

There are competitive bodybuilders who hold pro cards and get peeled who still incorporate some amount of "junk food" in their diets. The variable to consider is where their macronutrient intake is leading up to the events (typically how many carbs they can get lean on) and how well they can satiate.

A diet entirely built around processed foods probably won't meet the amount of satiety required to remain in an energy deficit, but that does not imply that SOME SMALL PORTION of processed foods is going to do any damage or cause any problems when the majority of the diet meets nutritional needs and is built primarily around whole and minimally refined foods.

SideSteel

Why are we even debating over nonsense of .8g or 1g or 1.5g? Going over isn't going to hurt and if i have to overindulge in any of the macros it will be protein, not fat or carbs. It's not a waste of a calorie. The body still uses it.

Going over could hurt some people in some contexts. Once protein needs are met the excess calories that you consume from additional protein could be spent on foods that may promote better training performance (such as carbs) or depending on where the remaining macronutrients are in the diet, fats may be preferable. Context dependent of course.

Czarinazero

Watch this. It explains why a calorie is not just a calorie.

http://youtu.be/tdMjKEncojQ

Icandoityayme

I allow for things that I don't eat normally to be added to my calories and as long as I am not going over my calories, I don't worry much about it. I am not going to quit everything I love to eat because it isn't "healthy" food. Life is meant to be lived and if you are miserable, it isn't living.

eric_sg61

Watch this. It explains why a calorie is not just a calorie.

http://youtu.be/tdMjKEncojQ

LOLstig, No

Sarauk2sf

Watch this. It explains why a calorie is not just a calorie.

http://youtu.be/tdMjKEncojQ

And if you do watch that, I highly recommend having a gander at this:

http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/

mrbyte

I eat junk on my cheat days. Every 10 days or so. My point is consistently eat junk and you hold shorting yourself. We are talking the same stuff.

We will have to disagree on the protein intake. We are all different. I was a good gainer when I was young. I went from 135 to 205 in 4 years and had 10% bf at 205. Last 3.5 months I lost 5 pounds yet brought my lbm up by 7 pounds eating the way I eat. It works for me.(before you say it's impossible Ill preface that I did take 6 months off from training before taking on the weights and did lose some lbm that I regained in my training) I plan on bring my weight up another 10 pounds and while bring my bf down another couple of points in the next two years.

I'll take a breath and realize that most here are not this intense. I apologize if I came across this way. I'm usually not this way but these forums can bring out the debaters in us.

SLLRunner

Watch this. It explains why a calorie is not just a calorie.

http://youtu.be/tdMjKEncojQ

In an effort to keep an open mind, I did just watch it. It seems to me his is trying to alarm people that the reason people eat more is due to eating sugar, therefore all calories are not created equal. He's wrong.

I can't eat an overabundance of sugar but I do eat some each day and I've lost 44 pounds. I've also gained weight when I ate very little sugar, so how does that figure in?

I don't like high fructose syrup or an overabundance of sugar because of how it makes me feel. That's it, period. However, it dose not make me more hungry, it makes me nauseous and not want to eat.

You gain weight from eating too much period, but the reasons people choose to overeat vary.

SLLRunner

Watch this. It explains why a calorie is not just a calorie.

http://youtu.be/tdMjKEncojQ

And if you do watch that, I highly recommend having a gander at this:

http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/

This is a good article. Context is definitely important.

traceywoody

I would like to take this moment to point out that any good scientist needs to be able to communicate their findings, both to their peers, and to the general public in a clear and concise manner. Now admittedly, this is sometimes difficult given the complexity of scientific topics, but all credibility is lost when the presenter fails to even attempt coherent dialogue.

And that is all I will say on this matter, because while I understand the premise put forward, I refuse to engage an individual who has demonstrated an inability to discuss a concept with a minimum of common courtesy and a respect for the intelligence of their audience.

so you think the people on here who initially responded to me with attacks and jokes deserve my respect ? few have even attempted to engage me with the slightest intelligence and open-mindedness on this topic, they are So brainwashed in the calorie world that I'm just a heretic to them, its fine, i KNOW the truth and how a body really responds to food intake, i don't have the best comm skills ok, not that its anyones business but that comes with being "high functioning aspergers", and if anyone knows aspergers, they take their field of study SERIOUSLY and tend to learn WAY more than most others, like tesla, einstein, etc, no I'm not saying I'm on their level, but i am saying that i know what I'm doing when it comes to this and try to spread the word so people can stop the calorie madness. but i don't care about the attacks, i will talk to those who are willing to question their beliefs and humor me in what I'm saying.

I admire how far you have come in your communication skills. My son is HFA. Probably best to disengage now. I believe you came on here with the best of intentions, but have been misunderstood. This happens to us all. Thank you for trying to share what you believe.

skittle316

Weight loss is calories in, calories out.
What you eat is just as important, some foods have horrible reactions for some people making them retain water.
I used to eat 1200 or less, but I would have white flour, processed sugar, did not loose a pound for months. Cut out sugars and starches, ate more and the fat and water literally flushed itself away.
General rule is even if they are ****, you need the calories, but quality of calories is just important. Everyone is different, a lot of people i know eat crap but are still skinny. If you're skinny/fit looking it doesn't matter what you eat, people don't ever judge health by diet and lifestyle it's always appearance.