Why Dieting is the Worst Way to Lose Weight

tigerblue

I'm sure you do look amazing but did you ever wonder if and how much LBM you sacrificed in the process if you didn't track it?

Well, since there's less of me to cart around, I don't really need as much "LBM" to do that carting around, now do I? And you're acting like it's a foregone conclusion that I'm "skinny fat"—whatever that's supposed to mean. I am able to walk, talk, and do everything else just as well as I could before I lost weight, so if I lost a bit of muscle mass in the process, I don't miss it. :drinker:

what about things further down the line?

osteoporosis?

I'm already pretty far down the line, I'm old as f__. So far so good, I think genetics plays a much larger role than anything else in that regard. Plus, I eat plenty or protein and fat 'n such in all the junk food I throw down my gullet, so I don't think I need to worry. :bigsmile:

I um. ok then. it honestly scares me that you give out as much advice as you do. I have no problem with your diet and exercise habits (or lack thereof), but the fact that you encourage others to follow the same practices is alarming. best of luck to you though.

Oh, alarming, is it? Well, not as alarming as telling someone who is not losing weight to just eat more calories until they start losing (hint: if you're not losing weight, the problem isn't that you're eating too few calories, it's that you're not counting input and output properly, but whatever, details, right?).

Here's the thing. Not everyone who sets out to lose weight is a chipper, perky little dynamo with willpower to spare, who is eager to make a suite of drastic lifestyle changes all at once. Some of us have really demanding jobs and social lives that don't really make a lot of room for a complete diet overhaul, a stringent workout regimen, and oh, by the way, if you can spare a few moments to track your calories and eat at a deficit it might help. The calorie deficit is pooh-poohed, downplayed, marginalized and dismissed around here, but it is literally the ONLY thing you HAVE to do in order to LOSE WEIGHT. I know this, because it's the ONLY thing I did. And I'm a half pound away from my goal weight.

Yeah, exercise is fine for health or whatever. Fitness, strength, all that jazz. But that's really not about losing weight. I mean, I seem to have lost weight as rapidly as any gymrat around here, and I feel perfectly fine. If I wanted to, now that I'm close to maintenance, I could start to introduce a little exercise into my life, and I might try yoga or something. But that's a separate goal from losing weight, and I figured that it would be better to accomplish one feat before tackling another. And honestly, I don't think I need a whole heck of a lot of toning, I'm pretty fortunate that my everyday activity keeps me at least somewhat toned.

So yeah, judge us lazy calorie counters all you want. We're laughing all the way to the scale. :drinker:

I am not judging here, but would like to speak as one with experience (I have been here for 4 years now!)

I will always be a calorie counter. And I believe that "eat more to lose" is a relative concept, and does not mean that everyone can eat a lot, just more than very lo cals. For me personally eating more to lose means eating 1400 calories a day instead of 1000. But I am petite and small boned and dont weigh a lot. Many of you out there probably have more lean mass than I have total mass!

Not judging here, but Sonea might want to listen to the "sadder wiser girl" that I am now! I peeked at your profile, and although I have no idea about your size and weight, we are of a similar age, and I would expect that you will be experiencing some of the same things I have, in a few years if not now!

Anyway, I am a ""deficit girl". I truly believe that calories in-calories out is the bottom line. I lost over 40 lbs here several years ago simply eating at a deficit. I DID exercise. Mostly medium cardio, although I added running after I dropped the weight. I logged my exercise and ate my calories back just as MFP suggests. It worked like a charm! I added a haphazard strength plan (mostly just on days I could not run because of weather or schedule). So the deficit does work, and in fact we have to have a deficit to lose.

Here is where I wish I had considered a few other things. After maintaining my 40+ lbs loss for about a year, the weight started creeping back (about 12 lbs in all). Now I am having to bust my butt doing all kinds of exercise, both strength and cardio, and eating at a deficit, and instead of the weight coming off as before, I have plateaued. Recently (after almost 2 years of gain/plateau) I have started losing very very very slowly again. about 0.25 a week. Even though I show a decent deficit. I am thrilled to be losing again at all, and plan to continue after the holidays (maintenance only over the holidays).

I really believe that if I had paid more attention to lean body mass and retaining and building muscle I would not be having nearly as much trouble maintaining my loss.

So, just a word of warning to consider from someone who has been there.

I'm 5'8" and weigh 135.5 pounds as of this morning. Or maybe I'm lying. I've never actually struggled with obesity, I've only ever been "overweight" from a BMI standpoint once in my adult life, around '93 or so, when I had a desk job and I drank sugary sodas all day long (and ate vending machine pretzels and chips out of boredom all day long). I had gotten into the mid 170s, much to my great consternation. Well, in my 20s, just cutting out the sodas and snacks was enough to make me drop back down to a size 7, and I maintained pretty well until I got into a relationship, and suddenly I was eating meals regularly and having larger portions, so by 2002 I was up to 163-ish. Hated it. So I dumped the guy and the weight, by "watching carbs" (I mean, I didn't dump the guy by watching carbs—you know what I mean). And after that my weight actually went down dramatically, I mean REALLY dramatically, without my even doing anything, because I just didn't feel like eating that much and I was under a lot of stress. My all-time low weight as an adult was 118, in 2003-2004, which is really too small for someone my height with my hipbones. From '04 to September of this year, I gradually gained weight, staying mostly in the 130s and 140s for most of it, until I reached 152.5 and decided enough was enough. This time, I didn't leave it to chance or carbs or just "watching it", I just decided to count calories, and stay within a certain range, based on my TDEE. Since September I've lost 17 pounds and I'm a half pound away from my goal.

Or maybe I'm lying. I mean, without an anonymous JPEG of a taut, toned bod, how can anyone possibly be sure I'm not full of it? :noway:

Really?? Who accused you of lying. I was making the assumption that you were/are slim, as I am. Just sharing in a quite friendly way.

Some people are just poison. . .

DamePiglet

Again, exercise is a physical activity that is done in order to become stronger and/or healthier. Walking to the freezer to get another pint of ice cream or shoveling snow, while physically demanding for some, still not exercise. One is done done because ice cream is fantastic and the other is done because they can't afford to winter in a warmer climate.

What if you choose to shovel your own driveway because you want the 'exercise'?

You absolutely become stronger doing some chores, and I'd say shoveling snow is one of them. Or trying to hang on to a horse's hoof between your knee while it is doing everything in it's power to remove said foot. Quite the core workout!

You seem to have a curiously narrow definition of exercise. :huh:

yep.
And a narrow understanding of peoples' motives, I might add.

gamerkiwi

Ultimately, some people are too large to weight train. Cutting calories has to be done by everyone who's goal is to cut before they build muscle. While the article makes some strong points, there are people who are taking years off their life by eating too much food.

How can you be too large to weight train?

So large you can't even do a weighted squat, and that your bench ROM is only an inch?

DamePiglet

Again, exercise is a physical activity that is done in order to become stronger and/or healthier. Walking to the freezer to get another pint of ice cream or shoveling snow, while physically demanding for some, still not exercise. One is done done because ice cream is fantastic and the other is done because they can't afford to winter in a warmer climate.

So if one chooses to shovel snow specifically for the "exercise" aspect even though they can afford to winter in a warmer climate, then it's exercise?

No, still not exercise.

Okay, well, me and the Amish will just go ahead and not exercise. I'm pretty sure that we will all be fine.

DamePiglet

Again, exercise is a physical activity that is done in order to become stronger and/or healthier. Walking to the freezer to get another pint of ice cream or shoveling snow, while physically demanding for some, still not exercise. One is done done because ice cream is fantastic and the other is done because they can't afford to winter in a warmer climate.

So if one chooses to shovel snow specifically for the "exercise" aspect even though they can afford to winter in a warmer climate, then it's exercise?

No, still not exercise.

Okay, well, me and the Amish will just go ahead and not exercise. I'm pretty sure that we will all be fine.

Don't even get me started on the Amish.

I won't. I don't really want your opinion on the Amish. :flowerforyou:

Siansonea

I'm sure you do look amazing but did you ever wonder if and how much LBM you sacrificed in the process if you didn't track it?

Well, since there's less of me to cart around, I don't really need as much "LBM" to do that carting around, now do I? And you're acting like it's a foregone conclusion that I'm "skinny fat"—whatever that's supposed to mean. I am able to walk, talk, and do everything else just as well as I could before I lost weight, so if I lost a bit of muscle mass in the process, I don't miss it. :drinker:

what about things further down the line?

osteoporosis?

I'm already pretty far down the line, I'm old as f__. So far so good, I think genetics plays a much larger role than anything else in that regard. Plus, I eat plenty or protein and fat 'n such in all the junk food I throw down my gullet, so I don't think I need to worry. :bigsmile:

I um. ok then. it honestly scares me that you give out as much advice as you do. I have no problem with your diet and exercise habits (or lack thereof), but the fact that you encourage others to follow the same practices is alarming. best of luck to you though.

Oh, alarming, is it? Well, not as alarming as telling someone who is not losing weight to just eat more calories until they start losing (hint: if you're not losing weight, the problem isn't that you're eating too few calories, it's that you're not counting input and output properly, but whatever, details, right?).

Here's the thing. Not everyone who sets out to lose weight is a chipper, perky little dynamo with willpower to spare, who is eager to make a suite of drastic lifestyle changes all at once. Some of us have really demanding jobs and social lives that don't really make a lot of room for a complete diet overhaul, a stringent workout regimen, and oh, by the way, if you can spare a few moments to track your calories and eat at a deficit it might help. The calorie deficit is pooh-poohed, downplayed, marginalized and dismissed around here, but it is literally the ONLY thing you HAVE to do in order to LOSE WEIGHT. I know this, because it's the ONLY thing I did. And I'm a half pound away from my goal weight.

Yeah, exercise is fine for health or whatever. Fitness, strength, all that jazz. But that's really not about losing weight. I mean, I seem to have lost weight as rapidly as any gymrat around here, and I feel perfectly fine. If I wanted to, now that I'm close to maintenance, I could start to introduce a little exercise into my life, and I might try yoga or something. But that's a separate goal from losing weight, and I figured that it would be better to accomplish one feat before tackling another. And honestly, I don't think I need a whole heck of a lot of toning, I'm pretty fortunate that my everyday activity keeps me at least somewhat toned.

So yeah, judge us lazy calorie counters all you want. We're laughing all the way to the scale. :drinker:

I am not judging here, but would like to speak as one with experience (I have been here for 4 years now!)

I will always be a calorie counter. And I believe that "eat more to lose" is a relative concept, and does not mean that everyone can eat a lot, just more than very lo cals. For me personally eating more to lose means eating 1400 calories a day instead of 1000. But I am petite and small boned and dont weigh a lot. Many of you out there probably have more lean mass than I have total mass!

Not judging here, but Sonea might want to listen to the "sadder wiser girl" that I am now! I peeked at your profile, and although I have no idea about your size and weight, we are of a similar age, and I would expect that you will be experiencing some of the same things I have, in a few years if not now!

Anyway, I am a ""deficit girl". I truly believe that calories in-calories out is the bottom line. I lost over 40 lbs here several years ago simply eating at a deficit. I DID exercise. Mostly medium cardio, although I added running after I dropped the weight. I logged my exercise and ate my calories back just as MFP suggests. It worked like a charm! I added a haphazard strength plan (mostly just on days I could not run because of weather or schedule). So the deficit does work, and in fact we have to have a deficit to lose.

Here is where I wish I had considered a few other things. After maintaining my 40+ lbs loss for about a year, the weight started creeping back (about 12 lbs in all). Now I am having to bust my butt doing all kinds of exercise, both strength and cardio, and eating at a deficit, and instead of the weight coming off as before, I have plateaued. Recently (after almost 2 years of gain/plateau) I have started losing very very very slowly again. about 0.25 a week. Even though I show a decent deficit. I am thrilled to be losing again at all, and plan to continue after the holidays (maintenance only over the holidays).

I really believe that if I had paid more attention to lean body mass and retaining and building muscle I would not be having nearly as much trouble maintaining my loss.

So, just a word of warning to consider from someone who has been there.

I'm 5'8" and weigh 135.5 pounds as of this morning. Or maybe I'm lying. I've never actually struggled with obesity, I've only ever been "overweight" from a BMI standpoint once in my adult life, around '93 or so, when I had a desk job and I drank sugary sodas all day long (and ate vending machine pretzels and chips out of boredom all day long). I had gotten into the mid 170s, much to my great consternation. Well, in my 20s, just cutting out the sodas and snacks was enough to make me drop back down to a size 7, and I maintained pretty well until I got into a relationship, and suddenly I was eating meals regularly and having larger portions, so by 2002 I was up to 163-ish. Hated it. So I dumped the guy and the weight, by "watching carbs" (I mean, I didn't dump the guy by watching carbs—you know what I mean). And after that my weight actually went down dramatically, I mean REALLY dramatically, without my even doing anything, because I just didn't feel like eating that much and I was under a lot of stress. My all-time low weight as an adult was 118, in 2003-2004, which is really too small for someone my height with my hipbones. From '04 to September of this year, I gradually gained weight, staying mostly in the 130s and 140s for most of it, until I reached 152.5 and decided enough was enough. This time, I didn't leave it to chance or carbs or just "watching it", I just decided to count calories, and stay within a certain range, based on my TDEE. Since September I've lost 17 pounds and I'm a half pound away from my goal.

Or maybe I'm lying. I mean, without an anonymous JPEG of a taut, toned bod, how can anyone possibly be sure I'm not full of it? :noway:

Really?? Who accused you of lying. I was making the assumption that you were/are slim, as I am. Just sharing in a quite friendly way.

Some people are just poison. . .

Actually, the "or maybe I'm lying" was aimed at the "pics or it didn't happen" jerks earlier in the thread. :drinker:

Siansonea

Phew. I really didn't want to get that rocking chair going.

You realize of course that you're 100% wrong, right? Your definition of exercise is laughably narrow. Maybe you should look it up in the dictionary before you start saying that it's not exercise unless you're at a gym wearing full Olivia Newton-John regalia. :drinker:

Danny_Boy13

Rake leaves, mow the damn lawn, shovel snow, repair a fence, climb up on the roof and clean out the gutters... the list goes on and on.
All great exercise.

Not exercises. Those are chores. Sure you may get a slight calorie burn doing them but let's not try to call them exercises.

Damn brah... Just about a few more months of yard work and house cleaning and I will be down to that shredded 10% bf brah. HAHA!!! Think about this for a minute people.... if all of the above were true then why are we as a nation the fattest (or near the top of that list)? I mean we all clean house, do yard work, ect so shouldn't the majority of us be at least at an ideal weight? Take construction workers... I know lots of those guys who are over weight and they do physical labor all damn day, so with the above thought process those guys should all be ripped as f***. Difference is a state of mind.

QuietBloom

Rake leaves, mow the damn lawn, shovel snow, repair a fence, climb up on the roof and clean out the gutters... the list goes on and on.
All great exercise.

Not exercises. Those are chores. Sure you may get a slight calorie burn doing them but let's not try to call them exercises.

Damn brah... Just about a few more months of yard work and house cleaning and I will be down to that shredded 10% bf brah. HAHA!!! Think about this for a minute people.... if all of the above were true then why are we as a nation the fattest (or near the top of that list)? I mean we all clean house, do yard work, ect so shouldn't the majority of us be at least at an ideal weight? Take construction workers... I know lots of those guys who are over weight and they do physical labor all damn day, so with the above thought process those guys should all be ripped as f***. Difference is a state of mind.

Oh goodie. I was just waiting for the broscience input. Glad it didn't disappoint!

DamePiglet

Rake leaves, mow the damn lawn, shovel snow, repair a fence, climb up on the roof and clean out the gutters... the list goes on and on.
All great exercise.

Not exercises. Those are chores. Sure you may get a slight calorie burn doing them but let's not try to call them exercises.

Damn brah... Just about a few more months of yard work and house cleaning and I will be down to that shredded 10% bf brah. HAHA!!! Think about this for a minute people.... if all of the above were true then why are we as a nation the fattest (or near the top of that list)? I mean we all clean house, do yard work, ect so shouldn't the majority of us be at least at an ideal weight? Take construction workers... I know lots of those guys who are over weight and they do physical labor all damn day, so with the above thought process those guys should all be ripped as f***. Difference is a state of mind.

Oh goodie. I was just waiting for the broscience input. Glad it didn't disappoint!

Oh I know, right???

Siansonea

Rake leaves, mow the damn lawn, shovel snow, repair a fence, climb up on the roof and clean out the gutters... the list goes on and on.
All great exercise.

Not exercises. Those are chores. Sure you may get a slight calorie burn doing them but let's not try to call them exercises.

Damn brah... Just about a few more months of yard work and house cleaning and I will be down to that shredded 10% bf brah. HAHA!!! Think about this for a minute people.... if all of the above were true then why are we as a nation the fattest (or near the top of that list)? I mean we all clean house, do yard work, ect so shouldn't the majority of us be at least at an ideal weight? Take construction workers... I know lots of those guys who are over weight and they do physical labor all damn day, so with the above thought process those guys should all be ripped as f***. Difference is a state of mind.

Yeah, that's fine, but they're still getting exercise. Clearly it's not enough to offset the other issues, and as everyone knows, you don't get fat because you don't exercise, you get fat because you eat more calories than you expend through all activity—metabolism, brain function and physical activity (a.k.a. EXERCISE).

DamePiglet

Rake leaves, mow the damn lawn, shovel snow, repair a fence, climb up on the roof and clean out the gutters... the list goes on and on.
All great exercise.

Not exercises. Those are chores. Sure you may get a slight calorie burn doing them but let's not try to call them exercises.

Damn brah... Just about a few more months of yard work and house cleaning and I will be down to that shredded 10% bf brah. HAHA!!! Think about this for a minute people.... if all of the above were true then why are we as a nation the fattest (or near the top of that list)? I mean we all clean house, do yard work, ect so shouldn't the majority of us be at least at an ideal weight? Take construction workers... I know lots of those guys who are over weight and they do physical labor all damn day, so with the above thought process those guys should all be ripped as f***. Difference is a state of mind.

I see you quote Socrates on your profile.

Did Socrates even lift, brah?

Danny_Boy13

Rake leaves, mow the damn lawn, shovel snow, repair a fence, climb up on the roof and clean out the gutters... the list goes on and on.
All great exercise.

Not exercises. Those are chores. Sure you may get a slight calorie burn doing them but let's not try to call them exercises.

Damn brah... Just about a few more months of yard work and house cleaning and I will be down to that shredded 10% bf brah. HAHA!!! Think about this for a minute people.... if all of the above were true then why are we as a nation the fattest (or near the top of that list)? I mean we all clean house, do yard work, ect so shouldn't the majority of us be at least at an ideal weight? Take construction workers... I know lots of those guys who are over weight and they do physical labor all damn day, so with the above thought process those guys should all be ripped as f***. Difference is a state of mind.

Oh goodie. I was just waiting for the broscience input. Glad it didn't disappoint!

broscience... what is this broscience you speak of? HA!!!

zyxst

I did not expect the Siansonea creeping. Well played.

Danny_Boy13

Rake leaves, mow the damn lawn, shovel snow, repair a fence, climb up on the roof and clean out the gutters... the list goes on and on.
All great exercise.

Not exercises. Those are chores. Sure you may get a slight calorie burn doing them but let's not try to call them exercises.

Damn brah... Just about a few more months of yard work and house cleaning and I will be down to that shredded 10% bf brah. HAHA!!! Think about this for a minute people.... if all of the above were true then why are we as a nation the fattest (or near the top of that list)? I mean we all clean house, do yard work, ect so shouldn't the majority of us be at least at an ideal weight? Take construction workers... I know lots of those guys who are over weight and they do physical labor all damn day, so with the above thought process those guys should all be ripped as f***. Difference is a state of mind.

Yeah, that's fine, but they're still getting exercise. Clearly it's not enough to offset the other issues, and as everyone knows, you don't get fat because you don't exercise, you get fat because you eat more calories than you expend through all activity—metabolism, brain function and physical activity (a.k.a. EXERCISE).

I agree that one does not get fat by not exercising but one who is after the ideal body that they want will not get it raking leaves either.

Danny_Boy13

Rake leaves, mow the damn lawn, shovel snow, repair a fence, climb up on the roof and clean out the gutters... the list goes on and on.
All great exercise.

Not exercises. Those are chores. Sure you may get a slight calorie burn doing them but let's not try to call them exercises.

Damn brah... Just about a few more months of yard work and house cleaning and I will be down to that shredded 10% bf brah. HAHA!!! Think about this for a minute people.... if all of the above were true then why are we as a nation the fattest (or near the top of that list)? I mean we all clean house, do yard work, ect so shouldn't the majority of us be at least at an ideal weight? Take construction workers... I know lots of those guys who are over weight and they do physical labor all damn day, so with the above thought process those guys should all be ripped as f***. Difference is a state of mind.

I see you quote Socrates on your profile.

Did Socrates even lift, brah?

hhhmmm.... Not sure on that one. Off to the university library to search for the answer. *zooms away*

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish

A caloric deficit is never downplayed around here. It is truly the only component to dropping pounds. I am not saying exercise is a necessary component to weight loss. However, exercise provides other benefits that some consider necessary in achieving their goals. I am one of those people.

I never blindly tell anyone to "eat more" nor do I agree with that practice. In my opinion, it is not appropriate to advise anyone on their intake until they are accurately tracking it by weighing and measuring everything. Yes, all that's necessary for weight loss is a caloric deficit, and if your priorities only include dropping pounds and not concerning yourself with the preservation of LBM, then fine. I do not agree with widely touting your specific methods of weight loss without also disclosing the negative impacts it may have. If you notice my ticker, I also am losing quite a bit and it is almost certainly likely I am sacrificing LBM in the process. All the same, I do my best to strength train and concern myself with inches lost over the reading on the scale. Don't let my age fool you, I also work full time, commute, live on my own, etc., but make time for my exercise. It may really not be feasible for some, but for the most part I find that it is a lack of will to exercise that is the biggest hurdle. Nothing wrong with that though, again, to each his own.

I also generally do not give out advice. I am here to learn, not spout off things I believe to be true that may or may not be correct. My biggest concern with you specifically is that you advise without taking time to listen to anyone else. Even experts in any field are wise to expand their knowledge as much as possible. I do not see that with you, and it's disappointing. My guess is that people would be more receptive to your message if you kept learning and could back your statements up with more than "it works for ME" and "I look AMAZING" (the latter being without any proof). Again, best of luck to you and I am glad you have found a method that works so well... for you.

Also... I beg to differ that your "daily activity" is keeping you "somewhat toned". Statements like this really highlight your lack of understanding.

+1000 there. I also take issue with green hair doll and the cartoon guy who like to regularly pop in and advise things like eat less and you dont need exercise, which are against "best practices" for keeping people safe and healthy. Yes calorie management is essential to losing weight, nobody in their right mind denies it. However, to err on the side of advising random internet person to eat more is not harmful even if it is an excess, and they can tell in a few days if the advice is wrong and they aren't losing weight. Whereas advising random internet person to eat less can be harmful if it goes below what they need to function on a day to day basis, and they may take your advice for months thinking "ooh, great this is what I needed to do" on a deficit which could cause health issues without them being able to readily know its wrong. In fact they would be convinced its "correct" advice because they are losing weight, until a problem arises, but by then its too late.

Now yes you can lose weight doing nothing but calorie management. And if you cannot/will not/dont want to exercise, well at least you lost weight yes, thats good. However, exercise is one of the most important factors for general health, and can help with almost any condition one may have if you care to look up the research, and advising doing both doesn't preclude you managing calories, its still required! So adding even a little exercise is beneficial, and advice for people to take up exercise is GREAT and helpful, whereas poo-pooing exercise could tip the balance in someone's mind against exercising if they aren't certain. That is not helpful for the most part, and if you compare results of one who may have been encouraged to exercise and lost weight that way vs one who didn't and lost weight, the one who exercised is going to have a lot of advantages, so your advice lowers their quality of life in essence. So no, I don't think its cool to advise eat less, you don't need exercise over and over like you do. You may have done it, it may be fine for you, but what matters is, is it good for the majority of people who may take your advice? No. Now I understand where you are coming from, you get fixated on facts here and there, but looking in the overall picture, that kind of advice isn't really best for the majority in many cases, and I think this is what has frustrated those here arguing with you.