Santa!?!?! I hate the lie!

rml_16

Little ones struggle to differentiate fantasy from reality. When we told the truth is when they point-blank asked us. Our daughter was about 8.

So everything you've said here is BS. Your children did believe and as they got older and became more skeptical (and all kids do), they learned there was no Santa.

You're arguing for something you didn't even do with your own kids while claiming you did.

HA! I was just about to say the same to you! :laugh: :laugh:

Actually, I stated in Part One of this that my kids got their pics taken at the mall and that when kids are little, they can't comprehend the difference between fantasy and reality. I doubt anyone has taken the time to understand my viewpoint. Not surprising.

I haven't once wavered from my stance and I didn't tell my daughter Santa wasn't real. How have I contradicted myself?

You have gone on and on about not letting kids believe in things that aren't real, then said you didn't actually reveal the truth about Santa until your 8-year-old actually came straight out and asked, which is what most people do.

The question in the thread is whether to allow them to believe at all or spoil it outright because heaven forbid you let your children have a fantasy world.

rml_16

No one in this thread has said they would disallow their children from enjoying fantasy.

You and several others have actually said exactly that.

FindingMyPerfection

No one in this thread has said they would disallow their children from enjoying fantasy.

You and several others have actually said exactly that.

They can have a fantasy world and know it is fantasy. You have argued that knowing it is fantasy is somehow robbing them of their imagination and that is just false.

rml_16

Interesting because I am sure that you are the one missing the point.

You can embrace fantasy without calling it factual!

I never said anything like that.

That seems to be what you've been saying this entire time, even that you had sympathy for such children who might hear stories about other myths and legends, but if it isn't Santa, then you feel sorry for them.

Please find one place where I said that. I feel sorry for the children who aren't allowed any fantasy, where every fantasy they have, every fantastical figure -- including imaginary friends! -- is immediately spoiled by the parents who won't allow any fantasy. You make sure every work of fiction is known up-front to be nothing but a work of fiction. You ensure your children don't believe in anything they can't see right in front of their eyes.

The thread was about Santa, so I stuck with that subject mainly. I'm talking about people who DO celebrate Christmas but refuse to allow the fantastical part of it into their children's lives.

There are Jewish traditions that are similar and if this thread were about those, then I would say the same things, but about the Jewish figures rather than about Santa.

rml_16

No one in this thread has said they would disallow their children from enjoying fantasy.

You and several others have actually said exactly that.

They can have a fantasy world and know it is fantasy. You have argued that knowing it is fantasy is somehow robbing them of their imagination and that is just false.

That is what I said and I stand by it. What's wrong with letting them believe in something?

BenjaminMFP88

I don't understand why everyone in here is talking about religion. I thought this was a discussion about Santa Clause? What does any religion have anything to do with that?

rml_16

I don't understand why everyone in here is talking about religion. I thought this was a discussion about Santa Clause? What does any religion have anything to do with that?

Santa Claus (in the modern sense) is a symbol of Christmas, which is a Christian holiday.

Some non-Christians celebrate it in a secular fashion, but it is still a Christian holiday. Santa Claus is Sain Nicholas, a Christian religious figure.

WendyTerry420

Little ones struggle to differentiate fantasy from reality. When we told the truth is when they point-blank asked us. Our daughter was about 8.

So everything you've said here is BS. Your children did believe and as they got older and became more skeptical (and all kids do), they learned there was no Santa.

You're arguing for something you didn't even do with your own kids while claiming you did.

HA! I was just about to say the same to you! :laugh: :laugh:

Actually, I stated in Part One of this that my kids got their pics taken at the mall and that when kids are little, they can't comprehend the difference between fantasy and reality. I doubt anyone has taken the time to understand my viewpoint. Not surprising.

I haven't once wavered from my stance and I didn't tell my daughter Santa wasn't real. How have I contradicted myself?

You have gone on and on about not letting kids believe in things that aren't real, then said you didn't actually reveal the truth about Santa until your 8-year-old actually came straight out and asked, which is what most people do.

The question in the thread is whether to allow them to believe at all or spoil it outright because heaven forbid you let your children have a fantasy world.

No, where you wavered was in saying that kids are deprived of imagination if they aren't taught about Santa. Then later said that they don't have to be taught about Santa to be able to fantasize.

ETA: And where you are confused about my stance is in the missing context, most importantly, the age of the child. My stance has not changed, just my tone. (I am trying to be nice)

FindingMyPerfection

No one in this thread has said they would disallow their children from enjoying fantasy.

You and several others have actually said exactly that.

They can have a fantasy world and know it is fantasy. You have argued that knowing it is fantasy is somehow robbing them of their imagination and that is just false.

That is what I said and I stand by it. What's wrong with letting them believe in something?

What is more impressive, a child who has a fantasy world that they are told exists, or one who has a fantasy world they enjoy but know it is just that fantasy? I say it takes more imagination to create a fantasy when you know it is just that than it does to live in a fantasy that you have been taught is true.

WendyTerry420

No one in this thread has said they would disallow their children from enjoying fantasy.

You and several others have actually said exactly that.

Bullchit! Never, ever, ever, would have said anything close to that. That's a lie. My family is knee-deep in Harry Potter, LOTR, Sword of Truth, etc. We have *always* been fantasy fans. I would never lie and say otherwise.

rml_16

No one in this thread has said they would disallow their children from enjoying fantasy.

You and several others have actually said exactly that.

Bullchit! Never, ever, ever, would have said anything close to that. That's a lie. My family is knee-deep in Harry Potter, LOTR, Sword of Truth, etc. We have *always* been fantasy fans. I would never lie and say otherwise.

I didn't say you said you don't enjoy fantasy stories. What you said was you make sure your kids know everythign is just that -- fantasy. They aren't allowed to believe any of it might be or is real, even for a little while.

There is a huge difference between knowing something is a story and enjoying it and thinking maybe -- just maybe -- it could be real.

rml_16

Little ones struggle to differentiate fantasy from reality. When we told the truth is when they point-blank asked us. Our daughter was about 8.

So everything you've said here is BS. Your children did believe and as they got older and became more skeptical (and all kids do), they learned there was no Santa.

You're arguing for something you didn't even do with your own kids while claiming you did.

HA! I was just about to say the same to you! :laugh: :laugh:

Actually, I stated in Part One of this that my kids got their pics taken at the mall and that when kids are little, they can't comprehend the difference between fantasy and reality. I doubt anyone has taken the time to understand my viewpoint. Not surprising.

I haven't once wavered from my stance and I didn't tell my daughter Santa wasn't real. How have I contradicted myself?

You have gone on and on about not letting kids believe in things that aren't real, then said you didn't actually reveal the truth about Santa until your 8-year-old actually came straight out and asked, which is what most people do.

The question in the thread is whether to allow them to believe at all or spoil it outright because heaven forbid you let your children have a fantasy world.

No, where you wavered was in saying that kids are deprived of imagination if they aren't taught about Santa. Then later said that they don't have to be taught about Santa to be able to fantasize.

ETA: And where you are confused about my stance is in the missing context, most importantly, the age of the child. My stance has not changed, just my tone. (I am trying to be nice)

Kids are taught about Santa whether their parnets do it or the world. It's everywhere. So a kid can choose to believe or not (most do when very small) and the parents play along.

What I was saying -- what I have ALWAYS said -- is that parents who purposely tell their children otherwise and refuse to play along and let their kids have some fun and figure it out later are depriving them.

rml_16

Since everyone who disagrees with me has completely overlooked this post and it sums up everything I'm trying to say, I'm just going to repost it:

I see plenty of real beauty in the world, and plenty of beauty in real people, that I don't need to make up fake characters to tell my children to believe in. Why waste time with lies? Why not appreciate our world how it is?

Because looking up at the sky and seeing nothing more than water vapor and light being filtered through the atmosphere is a sad thing. And you took that choice, the choice to either believe (even if for a short time) in magic or be skeptical of it on her own away from your daughter.

As terrible as you say your childhood was, at least no one stole that from you.

I am not a religious person. I didn't take my daughter to church or force any beliefs on her. But I also didn't burst her bubble when she believed in something just because I could. You have put a forced stop to the development of wonder and to her personal development of critical thinking. She won't be able to figure out any answers for herself or choose what to believe in.

It's sad when parents so blatantly project their own insecurities onto their children. It's sad when they can't disconnect from their own traumas in order to allow their children to find their own way in the world.

FindingMyPerfection

Since everyone who disagrees with me has completely overlooked this post and it sums up everything I'm trying to say, I'm just going to repost it:

I see plenty of real beauty in the world, and plenty of beauty in real people, that I don't need to make up fake characters to tell my children to believe in. Why waste time with lies? Why not appreciate our world how it is?

Because looking up at the sky and seeing nothing more than water vapor and light being filtered through the atmosphere is a sad thing. And you took that choice, the choice to either believe (even if for a short time) in magic or be skeptical of it on her own away from your daughter.

As terrible as you say your childhood was, at least no one stole that from you.

I am not a religious person. I didn't take my daughter to church or force any beliefs on her. But I also didn't burst her bubble when she believed in something just because I could. You have put a forced stop to the development of wonder and to her personal development of critical thinking. She won't be able to figure out any answers for herself or choose what to believe in.

It's sad when parents so blatantly project their own insecurities onto their children. It's sad when they can't disconnect from their own traumas in order to allow their children to find their own way in the world.

What is sad is you feel the real holds no wonder. I do feel sorry for you.

WendyTerry420

Little ones struggle to differentiate fantasy from reality. When we told the truth is when they point-blank asked us. Our daughter was about 8.

So everything you've said here is BS. Your children did believe and as they got older and became more skeptical (and all kids do), they learned there was no Santa.

You're arguing for something you didn't even do with your own kids while claiming you did.

HA! I was just about to say the same to you! :laugh: :laugh:

Actually, I stated in Part One of this that my kids got their pics taken at the mall and that when kids are little, they can't comprehend the difference between fantasy and reality. I doubt anyone has taken the time to understand my viewpoint. Not surprising.

I haven't once wavered from my stance and I didn't tell my daughter Santa wasn't real. How have I contradicted myself?

You have gone on and on about not letting kids believe in things that aren't real, then said you didn't actually reveal the truth about Santa until your 8-year-old actually came straight out and asked, which is what most people do.

The question in the thread is whether to allow them to believe at all or spoil it outright because heaven forbid you let your children have a fantasy world.

No, where you wavered was in saying that kids are deprived of imagination if they aren't taught about Santa. Then later said that they don't have to be taught about Santa to be able to fantasize.

ETA: And where you are confused about my stance is in the missing context, most importantly, the age of the child. My stance has not changed, just my tone. (I am trying to be nice)

Kids are taught about Santa whether their parnets do it or the world. It's everywhere. So a kid can choose to believe or not (most do when very small) and the parents play along.

What I was saying -- what I have ALWAYS said -- is that parents who purposely tell their children otherwise and refuse to play along and let their kids have some fun and figure it out later are depriving them.

I don't recall that as being what you have *always* said. But regardless, I figure parents have the right to raise their kids how they want. So long as the kid isn't being neglected or abused, it's none of my business.

WendyTerry420

Since everyone who disagrees with me has completely overlooked this post and it sums up everything I'm trying to say, I'm just going to repost it:

I see plenty of real beauty in the world, and plenty of beauty in real people, that I don't need to make up fake characters to tell my children to believe in. Why waste time with lies? Why not appreciate our world how it is?

Because looking up at the sky and seeing nothing more than water vapor and light being filtered through the atmosphere is a sad thing. And you took that choice, the choice to either believe (even if for a short time) in magic or be skeptical of it on her own away from your daughter.

As terrible as you say your childhood was, at least no one stole that from you.

I am not a religious person. I didn't take my daughter to church or force any beliefs on her. But I also didn't burst her bubble when she believed in something just because I could. You have put a forced stop to the development of wonder and to her personal development of critical thinking. She won't be able to figure out any answers for herself or choose what to believe in.

It's sad when parents so blatantly project their own insecurities onto their children. It's sad when they can't disconnect from their own traumas in order to allow their children to find their own way in the world.

What is sad is you feel the real holds no wonder. I do feel sorry for you.

Our family has been camping for years and must say that we appreciate the wonder in nature. :flowerforyou:

fannyfrost

I haven't read the entire thread, but I will share.

First off I am Jewish, husband is catholic. I never grew up with Santa. What I did with my daughter was not really lie. When she asked me if Santa was real, I said what do you think, she wanted to believe, so she did. When she got older and said that I had lied about Santa I said "Nope I asked you what you thought" and not only that I always told he may not be a real man, but he lives in us. Santa isn't about the man that brings presents, Santa is about giving and sharing and goodness.

Being Jewish Christmas is a little different for me. I look at it as a holiday when giving becomes important (although it should be all year long). It is the time of year with pretty lights and decorations and charity. Santa is really at the heart of much of that. It is Santa that brings out the the charity, not the religion of the holiday, even many religious people lose sight of the true meaning of the holiday. Yes it is the birthday of Jesus, and although I am catholic, much of what the man said and did was important.(FYI, I tend not to be religious, but I do believe in the main principles and the good that it teaches us. Giving, do good unto others, help others, be a good person, etc) The holiday to me embodies all the good things that we are taught. Giving, charity, sharing, family, etc.

I also just love the pretty lights Oh and yes we have a tree, yes we celebrate both holidays, boy did my daughter make out as a kid.

Oh and one of the things I did with my daughter from the time she could make a list was "honey, this is a long list and Santa has to give toys to other girls and boys too, so he can't give you everything you want". Being that she was an only child, it would have been easy to get spoiled, but by telling her she wasn't the only one in the world who got stuff it helped. I also used to take her to the store, first time at age 3, to buy a toy for Toys for Tots, for a girl her age and she was not allowed to have anything from the store that day. It was hard, but I wanted her to learn that life isn't about what we want all the time, giving to others who have less is a good thing and sometimes sacrifice for yourself is good. She learned the lesson so well that when she didn't get a toy with a happy meal once, she said "oh I guess they knew I have a lot of toys and gave it to someone who needed it more" She was 4/12

BeachIron

There's a special kind of crazy that takes away childhood traditions in the name of love.

WendyTerry420

I haven't read the entire thread, but I will share.

First off I am Jewish, husband is catholic. I never grew up with Santa. What I did with my daughter was not really lie. When she asked me if Santa was real, I said what do you think, she wanted to believe, so she did. When she got older and said that I had lied about Santa I said "Nope I asked you what you thought" and not only that I always told he may not be a real man, but he lives in us. Santa isn't about the man that brings presents, Santa is about giving and sharing and goodness.

Being Jewish Christmas is a little different for me. I look at it as a holiday when giving becomes important (although it should be all year long). It is the time of year with pretty lights and decorations and charity. Santa is really at the heart of much of that. It is Santa that brings out the the charity, not the religion of the holiday, even many religious people lose sight of the true meaning of the holiday. Yes it is the birthday of Jesus, and although I am catholic, much of what the man said and did was important.(FYI, I tend not to be religious, but I do believe in the main principles and the good that it teaches us. Giving, do good unto others, help others, be a good person, etc) The holiday to me embodies all the good things that we are taught. Giving, charity, sharing, family, etc.

I also just love the pretty lights Oh and yes we have a tree, yes we celebrate both holidays, boy did my daughter make out as a kid.

Oh and one of the things I did with my daughter from the time she could make a list was "honey, this is a long list and Santa has to give toys to other girls and boys too, so he can't give you everything you want". Being that she was an only child, it would have been easy to get spoiled, but by telling her she wasn't the only one in the world who got stuff it helped. I also used to take her to the store, first time at age 3, to buy a toy for Toys for Tots, for a girl her age and she was not allowed to have anything from the store that day. It was hard, but I wanted her to learn that life isn't about what we want all the time, giving to others who have less is a good thing and sometimes sacrifice for yourself is good. She learned the lesson so well that when she didn't get a toy with a happy meal once, she said "oh I guess they knew I have a lot of toys and gave it to someone who needed it more" She was 4/12

That's awesome! Thanks for sharing your story.

emirror

I see plenty of real beauty in the world, and plenty of beauty in real people, that I don't need to make up fake characters to tell my children to believe in. Why waste time with lies? Why not appreciate our world how it is?

Because looking up at the sky and seeing nothing more than water vapor and light being filtered through the atmosphere is a sad thing. And you took that choice, the choice to either believe (even if for a short time) in magic or be skeptical of it on her own away from your daughter.

As terrible as you say your childhood was, at least no one stole that from you.

I am not a religious person. I didn't take my daughter to church or force any beliefs on her. But I also didn't burst her bubble when she believed in something just because I could. You have put a forced stop to the development of wonder and to her personal development of critical thinking. She won't be able to figure out any answers for herself or choose what to believe in.

It's sad when parents so blatantly project their own insecurities onto their children. It's sad when they can't disconnect from their own traumas in order to allow their children to find their own way in the world.

There is a lot more wonder and awesomeness in science than there is in the limits of the imagination of the human brain. It's sad when parents are so ignorant to the real world around them that they feel the need to make up imaginary beings.