This gallery explains why millions of Americans are obese…
Replies
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http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodCost-Home.htm
My household falls between the low cost and the low end of moderate cost plan from week to week.
Now here is a whole new thread!
What kind of diet are YOU on and WHERE do YOU fall?
*insert evil smile here* ;-)
This may help with the cost factor.
I already listed my two diets. Gaining weight on the cheaper one and losing weight on the healthier, more expensive one. *innocent smile*
Oh dear, I know.
That wasn't aimed toward you. But I'm just curious in general about the argument that lack of money makes people eat food.
Fyi:
- I grew up in poverty. I'm the overweight person in my family @ 5'5 and 158. Everybody else weighs no more than 130
- I was once a vegetarian for 2 years, and then a vegan for 2 years, and even a vegan chef. My doctors advised me to stop because of my epilepsy and sugar, carb intake, and the battle of my vitamins versus my medication (I have epilepsy)
-So I am now on a doctor advised Keto diet. While my fiance is...not.
So, the whole topic intrigues me, and for many reasons
I didn't know there were doctors out there who recommended keto still, good for them for doing that instead of loading up a new batch of meds and sending you on your way. I hope it works great for you. I was a vegetarian at one time, too. For some reason as I've gotten older it just doesn't work for me anymore.0 -
I always thought the big bagels my parents bought when I was a kid was 1 serving until I looked on the back.0
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<snip - shortened for brevity>
You're absolutely right on that. Being thin isn't necessarily a sign of health. But people perceive it as a sign of someone who not only does control their food choices and possibly physical activity, but who also CAN choose it.
And that's my point - I see no evidence that just being thin is being equated with wealth. I see negative reactions to even celebrities that appear to be 'too' thin. I think without the healthy appearance the thinness means little.
There is a really good documentary in several parts on this.
In one of the segments a woman who works in health and nutrition for the government states that she can tell you accurately the average BMI of a zipcode.
I'm trying to find a link, frustrated that I can't. Before you say it, I know information also plays a role. If you grow up thinking donuts are a food group you might still choose unhealthy foods even if you can afford healthy food. Our education system could help with that, but since it labels pizza as a vegetable now, I don't see much hope.
Do you not realize that documentaries are propaganda driven? :noway: So you found some people who think like you do, who made a 'documentary'. I could probably find just as many that appose that viewpoint if I wanted to. But I don't watch social comment documentaries because I know they are skewed and biased.
I am not willing to concede all documentaries are propaganda driven, but if by 'propaganda' you mean 'obviously created to highlight a specific issue that the creators think it is vital for society to solve' yes, this is a propaganda piece, no doubt about it. Doesn't mean it isn't informative and well researched.
Peer reviewed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1636719/
Results
The spatial distribution of fast food restaurants and supermarkets that provide options for meeting recommended dietary intake differed according to racial distribution and poverty rates. Mixed-race or white high-poverty areas and all African American areas (regardless of income) were less likely than predominantly white higher-income communities to have access to foods that enable individuals to make healthy choices.
Conclusion
Without access to healthy food choices, individuals cannot make positive changes to their diets. If certain eating behaviors are required to reduce chronic disease and promote health, then some communities will continue to have disparities in critical health outcomes unless we increase access to healthy food.
So, are you saying you think they would have included evidence that did not fit the conclusion they came to?0 -
Since the 'credit crunch', package/serving sizes have been going down in the UK, not up - of course with the prices staying the same or going up.
We drove across the US in the late 80s, There was a LOT of options for large-sized portions then, too.
There may be more now.
That's probably because more people buy them!0 -
I blame credit availability for the obesity epidemic.
That is a significant contributor, no question about it.0 -
http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodCost-Home.htm
My household falls between the low cost and the low end of moderate cost plan from week to week.
Now here is a whole new thread!
What kind of diet are YOU on and WHERE do YOU fall?
*insert evil smile here* ;-)
This may help with the cost factor.
I already listed my two diets. Gaining weight on the cheaper one and losing weight on the healthier, more expensive one. *innocent smile*
Oh dear, I know.
That wasn't aimed toward you. But I'm just curious in general about the argument that lack of money makes people eat food.
Fyi:
- I grew up in poverty. I'm the overweight person in my family @ 5'5 and 158. Everybody else weighs no more than 130
- I was once a vegetarian for 2 years, and then a vegan for 2 years, and even a vegan chef. My doctors advised me to stop because of my epilepsy and sugar, carb intake, and the battle of my vitamins versus my medication (I have epilepsy)
-So I am now on a doctor advised Keto diet. While my fiance is...not.
So, the whole topic intrigues me, and for many reasons
I didn't know there were doctors out there who recommended keto still, good for them for doing that instead of loading up a new batch of meds and sending you on your way. I hope it works great for you. I was a vegetarian at one time, too. For some reason as I've gotten older it just doesn't work for me anymore.
Keto was invented by doctors to treat epilepsy.0 -
http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodCost-Home.htm
My household falls between the low cost and the low end of moderate cost plan from week to week.
Now here is a whole new thread!
What kind of diet are YOU on and WHERE do YOU fall?
*insert evil smile here* ;-)
This may help with the cost factor.
I already listed my two diets. Gaining weight on the cheaper one and losing weight on the healthier, more expensive one. *innocent smile*
Oh dear, I know.
That wasn't aimed toward you. But I'm just curious in general about the argument that lack of money makes people eat food.
Fyi:
- I grew up in poverty. I'm the overweight person in my family @ 5'5 and 158. Everybody else weighs no more than 130
- I was once a vegetarian for 2 years, and then a vegan for 2 years, and even a vegan chef. My doctors advised me to stop because of my epilepsy and sugar, carb intake, and the battle of my vitamins versus my medication (I have epilepsy)
-So I am now on a doctor advised Keto diet. While my fiance is...not.
So, the whole topic intrigues me, and for many reasons
I didn't know there were doctors out there who recommended keto still, good for them for doing that instead of loading up a new batch of meds and sending you on your way. I hope it works great for you. I was a vegetarian at one time, too. For some reason as I've gotten older it just doesn't work for me anymore.
Completely understandable. As my doctor's described to me with my vegetarian diet, my body was requiring more energy and
I couldn't maintain what I needed with what I was consuming. Like many diet's, what works for one, doesn't work for another.
And yeah, they had recommended a lifestyle change with me watching sugar intake, but then I realized that much of my sugars came in carbs, because I STILL ate so many....constantly craving them, so I ended up doing a trial, a light one because I was concerned about the effects, because I already had an appointment booked, approached them, and they approved it once my tests came back normal. I've actually been able to reduce meds and went without seizures since beginning it.0 -
People don't have to do anything. but it's nice to know from yoiur perspective that larger sizes have nothing to do with increased food consumption, thanks.:flowerforyou:
That is correct. Adding larger sizes to menus has zero impact on food consumption.
Increased food consumption, on the other hand, has a direct impact on available serving sizes.0 -
So, are you saying you think they would have included evidence that did not fit the conclusion they came to?
The documentary? Yes, they possibly left out evidence that didn't fit their conclusion. The peer reviewed research paper? Less likely but certainly not impossible. Should we throw out all scientific research because we can't know for certain? The best we can do is avoid research funded for obviously self-serving reasons, such as corporate funded research 'showing' a company's products are safe that are done by the company itself. And even then sometimes the research is accurate.0 -
Keto was invented by doctors to treat epilepsy.
True, but that was before medication existed to control it. And many doctors seem more inclined to prescribe medication (if they exist) than to prescribe dietary changes. To be fair, it is much easier to get someone to comply with taking a pill every day than to comply with giving up a huge portion of the average American diet.0 -
So, are you saying you think they would have included evidence that did not fit the conclusion they came to?
The documentary? Yes, they possibly left out evidence that didn't fit their conclusion. The peer reviewed research paper? Less likely but certainly not impossible. Should we throw out all scientific research because we can't know for certain? The best we can do is avoid research funded for obviously self-serving reasons, such as corporate funded research 'showing' a company's products are safe that are done by the company itself. And even then sometimes the research is accurate.
I was solely on the topic of the documentaries.
The research paper covers only fast food restaurants. I am willing to bet that there are PLENTY of grocery stores in all of those areas that offer healthy food at affordable prices. I'm not sure why you put that paper in - do you want government subsidy of fast food now?
ETA: Derp! I see it covers supermarkets too. Somehow I find it difficult to believe that there are not supermarkets available pretty much everywhere. Are they talking about people living in remote Alaska or something?
OK, read the abstract. One their requirements for a supermarket that offered 'healthy' foods was low-fat options be available. :noway: :happy:0 -
Please, no Keto epilepsy argument. This occurs every single time I speak on the regular posts. :-I
Hahaha, me and my mouth.0 -
Keto was invented by doctors to treat epilepsy.
True, but that was before medication existed to control it. And many doctors seem more inclined to prescribe medication (if they exist) than to prescribe dietary changes. To be fair, it is much easier to get someone to comply with taking a pill every day than to comply with giving up a huge portion of the average American diet.
Plenty of people, especially children are still put on keto diets. Not all epilepsy is controllable through medication.0 -
ETA: Derp! I see it covers supermarkets too. Somehow I find it difficult to believe that there are not supermarkets available pretty much everywhere. Are they talking about people living in remote Alaska or something?
Poor sections of inner cities are noticeably underserved. Go to the wrong end of, for example, Cleveland, and you will be shocked by what passes for a supermarket. Dirty, disgusting, very low quality boxed food, and minimal produce.0 -
So, are you saying you think they would have included evidence that did not fit the conclusion they came to?
The documentary? Yes, they possibly left out evidence that didn't fit their conclusion. The peer reviewed research paper? Less likely but certainly not impossible. Should we throw out all scientific research because we can't know for certain? The best we can do is avoid research funded for obviously self-serving reasons, such as corporate funded research 'showing' a company's products are safe that are done by the company itself. And even then sometimes the research is accurate.
I was solely on the topic of the documentaries.
The research paper covers only fast food restaurants. I am willing to bet that there are PLENTY of grocery stores in all of those areas that offer healthy food at affordable prices. I'm not sure why you put that paper in - do you want government subsidy of fast food now?
ETA: Derp! I see it covers supermarkets too. Somehow I find it difficult to believe that there are not supermarkets available pretty much everywhere. Are they talking about people living in remote Alaska or something?
I find it difficult, to believe as well, but places like large swathes of Detroit are what they call 'food deserts' (nifty little expression, and yes, that one does have propaganda overtones!) where there simply are not real grocery stores.0 -
Memes make people fat? I had no idea.0
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Memes make people fat? I had no idea.
:laugh: Maybe if you spend the whole day motionless in your chair scrolling through pages of memes while noshing on cheesy puffs!
Come to think of it, half a day in this chair debating the possibly systemic causes of obesity probably isn't helping my cause, either...0 -
So, are you saying you think they would have included evidence that did not fit the conclusion they came to?
The documentary? Yes, they possibly left out evidence that didn't fit their conclusion. The peer reviewed research paper? Less likely but certainly not impossible. Should we throw out all scientific research because we can't know for certain? The best we can do is avoid research funded for obviously self-serving reasons, such as corporate funded research 'showing' a company's products are safe that are done by the company itself. And even then sometimes the research is accurate.
I was solely on the topic of the documentaries.
The research paper covers only fast food restaurants. I am willing to bet that there are PLENTY of grocery stores in all of those areas that offer healthy food at affordable prices. I'm not sure why you put that paper in - do you want government subsidy of fast food now?
ETA: Derp! I see it covers supermarkets too. Somehow I find it difficult to believe that there are not supermarkets available pretty much everywhere. Are they talking about people living in remote Alaska or something?
I find it difficult, to believe as well, but places like large swathes of Detroit are what they call 'food deserts' (nifty little expression, and yes, that one does have propaganda overtones!) where there simply are not real grocery stores.
Ya caught me still editing. One of the criteria they had for food that was 'healthy' was that it be low fat, or for there to be low fat options available. By now, we know that low fat =/= healthy. So I'm not really impressed with the article.
However, interesting about the Detroit food deserts. I suppose that is bound to happen when a city devolves as badly as Detroit has. I would venture to guess there is not a lot of quality ANYthing in those areas.0 -
So, are you saying you think they would have included evidence that did not fit the conclusion they came to?
The documentary? Yes, they possibly left out evidence that didn't fit their conclusion. The peer reviewed research paper? Less likely but certainly not impossible. Should we throw out all scientific research because we can't know for certain? The best we can do is avoid research funded for obviously self-serving reasons, such as corporate funded research 'showing' a company's products are safe that are done by the company itself. And even then sometimes the research is accurate.
I was solely on the topic of the documentaries.
The research paper covers only fast food restaurants. I am willing to bet that there are PLENTY of grocery stores in all of those areas that offer healthy food at affordable prices. I'm not sure why you put that paper in - do you want government subsidy of fast food now?
ETA: Derp! I see it covers supermarkets too. Somehow I find it difficult to believe that there are not supermarkets available pretty much everywhere. Are they talking about people living in remote Alaska or something?
I find it difficult, to believe as well, but places like large swathes of Detroit are what they call 'food deserts' (nifty little expression, and yes, that one does have propaganda overtones!) where there simply are not real grocery stores.
Ya caught me still editing. One of the criteria they had for food that was 'healthy' was that it be low fat, or for there to be low fat options available. By now, we know that low fat =/= healthy. So I'm not really impressed with the article.
However, interesting about the Detroit food deserts. I suppose that is bound to happen when a city devolves as badly as Detroit has. I would venture to guess there is not a lot of quality ANYthing in those areas.
Good point. Our government, unlike Sweden's, doesn't seem too keen on low carb solutions to health issues including obesity.0 -
right, get the government MORE involved in our lives...because they are already doing such a great job of ruining all the stuff they already control....
Ever read "The Jungle"? Government sucks. No regulations sucks far more.
I think it's funny that everyone always wants to talk about "The Jungle" when we bring up food and safety regulations. (Yes, I am aware that the establishment of the FDA was almost a direct result of this book.) Sinclair's actual intent with this work was to point out how exploited the average factory worker was back in the day, but the common takeaway is, "Omg, that's what happens to my food before it's packed?! Groooossssss!" There's never any thought or consideration beyond that--i.e. working conditions, secondary consequences, etc.
In other news, this thread is all over the place with its wild tangents and things. It's been an interesting read.
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Bravo! Couldn't have said it better myself. Who do you think pays for the subsidies the farmers already get?0
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Stinks of Big Government to me. :frown:
Nothing wrong with big government if it does what we want it to do.
But I better get off this part of the topic before I get my posts deleted.
the government that governs best governs least...
Tell that to children who lost limbs and lives in meat packing plants before the advent of child labor laws.
I don't really see what government has to do with that one way or the other…there was government back then and it happened…that should really be a local/state matter…0 -
i will say that this thread has totally derailed about four times….0
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So, are you saying you think they would have included evidence that did not fit the conclusion they came to?
The documentary? Yes, they possibly left out evidence that didn't fit their conclusion. The peer reviewed research paper? Less likely but certainly not impossible. Should we throw out all scientific research because we can't know for certain? The best we can do is avoid research funded for obviously self-serving reasons, such as corporate funded research 'showing' a company's products are safe that are done by the company itself. And even then sometimes the research is accurate.
I was solely on the topic of the documentaries.
The research paper covers only fast food restaurants. I am willing to bet that there are PLENTY of grocery stores in all of those areas that offer healthy food at affordable prices. I'm not sure why you put that paper in - do you want government subsidy of fast food now?
ETA: Derp! I see it covers supermarkets too. Somehow I find it difficult to believe that there are not supermarkets available pretty much everywhere. Are they talking about people living in remote Alaska or something?
I find it difficult, to believe as well, but places like large swathes of Detroit are what they call 'food deserts' (nifty little expression, and yes, that one does have propaganda overtones!) where there simply are not real grocery stores.
Ya caught me still editing. One of the criteria they had for food that was 'healthy' was that it be low fat, or for there to be low fat options available. By now, we know that low fat =/= healthy. So I'm not really impressed with the article.
However, interesting about the Detroit food deserts. I suppose that is bound to happen when a city devolves as badly as Detroit has. I would venture to guess there is not a lot of quality ANYthing in those areas.
Good point. Our government, unlike Sweden's, doesn't seem too keen on low carb solutions to health issues including obesity.
its not governments job to make someone healthy or not…if person A wants to work out and eat healthy fine; and if person b wants to eat ding dongs and sit on the couch all day than that is fine too…personal choice and personal responsibility..but I guess these are concepts that are 'old fashioned' now a days…
and I sure as hell don't want my tax dollars going to "teach" people how to be healthy or tell them what food to eat...0 -
Tell that to children who lost limbs and lives in meat packing plants before the advent of child labor laws.
I don't really see what government has to do with that one way or the other…there was government back then and it happened…that should really be a local/state matter…
There was less gov't back then, and people opposed the increased regulations on the grounds that more gov't was bad.0 -
...and I sure as hell don't want my tax dollars going to "teach" people how to be healthy or tell them what food to eat...
Then even more of your tax dollars will go to fix their inevitable medical problems.0 -
...and I sure as hell don't want my tax dollars going to "teach" people how to be healthy or tell them what food to eat...
Then even more of your tax dollars will go to fix their inevitable medical problems.
my tax dollars should have nothing to do with health care.
I mean if we want to get all constitutional and what not the the government has no constitutional authority to be involved in health care or medicine. but we should probably not go down that road either…0 -
Tell that to children who lost limbs and lives in meat packing plants before the advent of child labor laws.
I don't really see what government has to do with that one way or the other…there was government back then and it happened…that should really be a local/state matter…
There was less gov't back then, and people opposed the increased regulations on the grounds that more gov't was bad.
funny, how they were dead on...0 -
...and I sure as hell don't want my tax dollars going to "teach" people how to be healthy or tell them what food to eat...
Then even more of your tax dollars will go to fix their inevitable medical problems.
my tax dollars should have nothing to do with health care.
That's fine.
But the reality is they do.
The only option available to you is to influence how they are spent.0 -
...and I sure as hell don't want my tax dollars going to "teach" people how to be healthy or tell them what food to eat...
Then even more of your tax dollars will go to fix their inevitable medical problems.
my tax dollars should have nothing to do with health care.
That's fine.
But the reality is they do.
The only option available to you is to influence how they are spent.
they do because they are confiscated from my by the gov and then redistributed as they see fit…0
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