This gallery explains why millions of Americans are obese…

QuietBloom

Yeah, that's been posted before. You like lo-carb. We all get that. Have at it. Just quite trying to get someone else to pay for it for you.

And btw, lo-carb does not need to be expensive. If you go all fancy smanzy with the grass-fed/organic meat, then yeah. It can be. But the last time I checked, tuna is still cheap and so are eggs. Both excellent sources of delicious protein.

You're a vegetarian, correct:?

If not, you better check out meat subsidies, because someone is paying for your food, too.

Now you are running out of arguments. The strawman tells the tale. :laugh:

How is that a strawman? You can afford meat because it is subsidized. Unless you are very wealthy or vegetarian that means everyone's tax dollars contributes to your menu.

Because I am not the one complaining that I can't afford to eat the foods I choose to eat.

ETA: I am FAR from wealthy. We don't each much meat to be honest. But plenty of cheese and eggs.

Jestinia

Yeah, that's been posted before. You like lo-carb. We all get that. Have at it. Just quite trying to get someone else to pay for it for you.

And btw, lo-carb does not need to be expensive. If you go all fancy smanzy with the grass-fed/organic meat, then yeah. It can be. But the last time I checked, tuna is still cheap and so are eggs. Both excellent sources of delicious protein.

You're a vegetarian, correct:?

If not, you better check out meat subsidies, because someone is paying for your food, too.

Now you are running out of arguments. The strawman tells the tale. :laugh:

How is that a strawman? You can afford meat because it is subsidized. Unless you are very wealthy or vegetarian that means everyone's tax dollars contributes to your menu.

Because I am not the one complaining that I can't afford to eat the foods I choose to eat.

If you eat beef in particular, unless you are rich, you would have to give it up. Kudos to you if you would be willing to do so to end subsidies, but I doubt you'll find many people willing to join you!

Jestinia

<snip - shortened for brevity>

You're absolutely right on that. Being thin isn't necessarily a sign of health. But people perceive it as a sign of someone who not only does control their food choices and possibly physical activity, but who also CAN choose it.

And that's my point - I see no evidence that just being thin is being equated with wealth. I see negative reactions to even celebrities that appear to be 'too' thin. I think without the healthy appearance the thinness means little.

There is a really good documentary in several parts on this.

In one of the segments a woman who works in health and nutrition for the government states that she can tell you accurately the average BMI of a zipcode.

I'm trying to find a link, frustrated that I can't. Before you say it, I know information also plays a role. If you grow up thinking donuts are a food group you might still choose unhealthy foods even if you can afford healthy food. Our education system could help with that, but since it labels pizza as a vegetable now, I don't see much hope.

QuietBloom

Yeah, that's been posted before. You like lo-carb. We all get that. Have at it. Just quite trying to get someone else to pay for it for you.

And btw, lo-carb does not need to be expensive. If you go all fancy smanzy with the grass-fed/organic meat, then yeah. It can be. But the last time I checked, tuna is still cheap and so are eggs. Both excellent sources of delicious protein.

You're a vegetarian, correct:?

If not, you better check out meat subsidies, because someone is paying for your food, too.

Now you are running out of arguments. The strawman tells the tale. :laugh:

How is that a strawman? You can afford meat because it is subsidized. Unless you are very wealthy or vegetarian that means everyone's tax dollars contributes to your menu.

Because I am not the one complaining that I can't afford to eat the foods I choose to eat.

If you eat beef in particular, unless you are rich, you would have to give it up. Kudos to you if you would be willing to do so to end subsidies, but I doubt you'll find many people willing to join you!

I'm not going to get sucked into your strawman arguments, Jestinia. *I* am not complaining about the price of 'healthy' foods. I will stand by my personal choices and take responsibility for them. And I can buy very healthy food, even though I am NOT well off. And I would be perfectly FINE with far less government interference in any realm be it food or healthcare (don't get me started on that one).

KayNowayJose

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodCost-Home.htm

My household falls between the low cost and the low end of moderate cost plan from week to week.

Now here is a whole new thread!

What kind of diet are YOU on and WHERE do YOU fall?

*insert evil smile here* ;-)

This may help with the cost factor.

Jestinia

Yeah, that's been posted before. You like lo-carb. We all get that. Have at it. Just quite trying to get someone else to pay for it for you.

And btw, lo-carb does not need to be expensive. If you go all fancy smanzy with the grass-fed/organic meat, then yeah. It can be. But the last time I checked, tuna is still cheap and so are eggs. Both excellent sources of delicious protein.

You're a vegetarian, correct:?

If not, you better check out meat subsidies, because someone is paying for your food, too.

Now you are running out of arguments. The strawman tells the tale. :laugh:

How is that a strawman? You can afford meat because it is subsidized. Unless you are very wealthy or vegetarian that means everyone's tax dollars contributes to your menu.

Because I am not the one complaining that I can't afford to eat the foods I choose to eat.

If you eat beef in particular, unless you are rich, you would have to give it up. Kudos to you if you would be willing to do so to end subsidies, but I doubt you'll find many people willing to join you!

I'm not going to get sucked into your strawman arguments, Jestinia. *I* am not complaining about the price of 'healthy' foods. I will stand by my personal choices and take responsibility for them. And I can buy very healthy food, even though I am NOT well off. And I would be perfectly FINE with far less government interference in any realm be it food or healthcare (don't get me started on that one).

But your tax dollars will still pay to treat the medical problems of those who can't afford healthy food. Unless you advocate throwing them out of the hospital to die.

But I admit, I'm getting waaaaay off topic here. Suffice to say, let us agree to disagree.

Jestinia

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodCost-Home.htm

My household falls between the low cost and the low end of moderate cost plan from week to week.

Now here is a whole new thread!

What kind of diet are YOU on and WHERE do YOU fall?

*insert evil smile here* ;-)

This may help with the cost factor.

I already listed my two diets. Gaining weight on the cheaper one and losing weight on the healthier, more expensive one. *innocent smile*

QuietBloom

<snip - shortened for brevity>

You're absolutely right on that. Being thin isn't necessarily a sign of health. But people perceive it as a sign of someone who not only does control their food choices and possibly physical activity, but who also CAN choose it.

And that's my point - I see no evidence that just being thin is being equated with wealth. I see negative reactions to even celebrities that appear to be 'too' thin. I think without the healthy appearance the thinness means little.

There is a really good documentary in several parts on this.

In one of the segments a woman who works in health and nutrition for the government states that she can tell you accurately the average BMI of a zipcode.

I'm trying to find a link, frustrated that I can't. Before you say it, I know information also plays a role. If you grow up thinking donuts are a food group you might still choose unhealthy foods even if you can afford healthy food. Our education system could help with that, but since it labels pizza as a vegetable now, I don't see much hope.

Do you not realize that documentaries are propaganda driven? :noway: So you found some people who think like you do, who made a 'documentary'. I could probably find just as many that appose that viewpoint if I wanted to. But I don't watch social comment documentaries because I know they are skewed and biased.

Jestinia

<snip - shortened for brevity>

You're absolutely right on that. Being thin isn't necessarily a sign of health. But people perceive it as a sign of someone who not only does control their food choices and possibly physical activity, but who also CAN choose it.

And that's my point - I see no evidence that just being thin is being equated with wealth. I see negative reactions to even celebrities that appear to be 'too' thin. I think without the healthy appearance the thinness means little.

There is a really good documentary in several parts on this.

In one of the segments a woman who works in health and nutrition for the government states that she can tell you accurately the average BMI of a zipcode.

I'm trying to find a link, frustrated that I can't. Before you say it, I know information also plays a role. If you grow up thinking donuts are a food group you might still choose unhealthy foods even if you can afford healthy food. Our education system could help with that, but since it labels pizza as a vegetable now, I don't see much hope.

Do you not realize that documentaries are propaganda driven? :noway: So you found some people who think like you do, who made a 'documentary'. I could probably find just as many that appose that viewpoint if I wanted to. But I don't watch social comment documentaries because I know they are skewed and biased.

I am not willing to concede all documentaries are propaganda driven, but if by 'propaganda' you mean 'obviously created to highlight a specific issue that the creators think it is vital for society to solve' yes, this is a propaganda piece, no doubt about it. Doesn't mean it isn't informative and well researched.

Peer reviewed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1636719/

Results

The spatial distribution of fast food restaurants and supermarkets that provide options for meeting recommended dietary intake differed according to racial distribution and poverty rates. Mixed-race or white high-poverty areas and all African American areas (regardless of income) were less likely than predominantly white higher-income communities to have access to foods that enable individuals to make healthy choices.

Conclusion

Without access to healthy food choices, individuals cannot make positive changes to their diets. If certain eating behaviors are required to reduce chronic disease and promote health, then some communities will continue to have disparities in critical health outcomes unless we increase access to healthy food.

KayNowayJose

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodCost-Home.htm

My household falls between the low cost and the low end of moderate cost plan from week to week.

Now here is a whole new thread!

What kind of diet are YOU on and WHERE do YOU fall?

*insert evil smile here* ;-)


This may help with the cost factor.

I already listed my two diets. Gaining weight on the cheaper one and losing weight on the healthier, more expensive one. *innocent smile*

Oh dear, I know.

That wasn't aimed toward you. But I'm just curious in general about the argument that lack of money contributes to how one eats.

Fyi:

- I grew up in poverty. I'm the overweight person in my family @ 5'5 and 158. Everybody else weighs no more than 130
- I was once a vegetarian for 2 years, and then a vegan for 2 years, and even a vegan chef. My doctors advised me to stop because of my epilepsy and sugar, carb intake, and the battle of my vitamins versus my medication (I have epilepsy)
-So I am now on a doctor advised Keto diet. While my fiance is...not.

So, the whole topic intrigues me, and for many reasons

Jestinia

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodCost-Home.htm

My household falls between the low cost and the low end of moderate cost plan from week to week.

Now here is a whole new thread!

What kind of diet are YOU on and WHERE do YOU fall?

*insert evil smile here* ;-)


This may help with the cost factor.

I already listed my two diets. Gaining weight on the cheaper one and losing weight on the healthier, more expensive one. *innocent smile*

Oh dear, I know.

That wasn't aimed toward you. But I'm just curious in general about the argument that lack of money makes people eat food.

Fyi:

- I grew up in poverty. I'm the overweight person in my family @ 5'5 and 158. Everybody else weighs no more than 130
- I was once a vegetarian for 2 years, and then a vegan for 2 years, and even a vegan chef. My doctors advised me to stop because of my epilepsy and sugar, carb intake, and the battle of my vitamins versus my medication (I have epilepsy)
-So I am now on a doctor advised Keto diet. While my fiance is...not.

So, the whole topic intrigues me, and for many reasons

I didn't know there were doctors out there who recommended keto still, good for them for doing that instead of loading up a new batch of meds and sending you on your way. I hope it works great for you. I was a vegetarian at one time, too. For some reason as I've gotten older it just doesn't work for me anymore.

BekaBooluvsu

I always thought the big bagels my parents bought when I was a kid was 1 serving until I looked on the back.

QuietBloom

<snip - shortened for brevity>

You're absolutely right on that. Being thin isn't necessarily a sign of health. But people perceive it as a sign of someone who not only does control their food choices and possibly physical activity, but who also CAN choose it.

And that's my point - I see no evidence that just being thin is being equated with wealth. I see negative reactions to even celebrities that appear to be 'too' thin. I think without the healthy appearance the thinness means little.

There is a really good documentary in several parts on this.

In one of the segments a woman who works in health and nutrition for the government states that she can tell you accurately the average BMI of a zipcode.

I'm trying to find a link, frustrated that I can't. Before you say it, I know information also plays a role. If you grow up thinking donuts are a food group you might still choose unhealthy foods even if you can afford healthy food. Our education system could help with that, but since it labels pizza as a vegetable now, I don't see much hope.

Do you not realize that documentaries are propaganda driven? :noway: So you found some people who think like you do, who made a 'documentary'. I could probably find just as many that appose that viewpoint if I wanted to. But I don't watch social comment documentaries because I know they are skewed and biased.

I am not willing to concede all documentaries are propaganda driven, but if by 'propaganda' you mean 'obviously created to highlight a specific issue that the creators think it is vital for society to solve' yes, this is a propaganda piece, no doubt about it. Doesn't mean it isn't informative and well researched.

Peer reviewed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1636719/

Results

The spatial distribution of fast food restaurants and supermarkets that provide options for meeting recommended dietary intake differed according to racial distribution and poverty rates. Mixed-race or white high-poverty areas and all African American areas (regardless of income) were less likely than predominantly white higher-income communities to have access to foods that enable individuals to make healthy choices.

Conclusion

Without access to healthy food choices, individuals cannot make positive changes to their diets. If certain eating behaviors are required to reduce chronic disease and promote health, then some communities will continue to have disparities in critical health outcomes unless we increase access to healthy food.

So, are you saying you think they would have included evidence that did not fit the conclusion they came to?

geebusuk

Since the 'credit crunch', package/serving sizes have been going down in the UK, not up - of course with the prices staying the same or going up.

We drove across the US in the late 80s, There was a LOT of options for large-sized portions then, too.

There may be more now.
That's probably because more people buy them!

Mr_Knight

I blame credit availability for the obesity epidemic.

That is a significant contributor, no question about it.

QuietBloom

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodCost-Home.htm

My household falls between the low cost and the low end of moderate cost plan from week to week.

Now here is a whole new thread!

What kind of diet are YOU on and WHERE do YOU fall?

*insert evil smile here* ;-)


This may help with the cost factor.

I already listed my two diets. Gaining weight on the cheaper one and losing weight on the healthier, more expensive one. *innocent smile*

Oh dear, I know.

That wasn't aimed toward you. But I'm just curious in general about the argument that lack of money makes people eat food.

Fyi:

- I grew up in poverty. I'm the overweight person in my family @ 5'5 and 158. Everybody else weighs no more than 130
- I was once a vegetarian for 2 years, and then a vegan for 2 years, and even a vegan chef. My doctors advised me to stop because of my epilepsy and sugar, carb intake, and the battle of my vitamins versus my medication (I have epilepsy)
-So I am now on a doctor advised Keto diet. While my fiance is...not.

So, the whole topic intrigues me, and for many reasons

I didn't know there were doctors out there who recommended keto still, good for them for doing that instead of loading up a new batch of meds and sending you on your way. I hope it works great for you. I was a vegetarian at one time, too. For some reason as I've gotten older it just doesn't work for me anymore.

Keto was invented by doctors to treat epilepsy.

KayNowayJose

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodCost-Home.htm

My household falls between the low cost and the low end of moderate cost plan from week to week.

Now here is a whole new thread!

What kind of diet are YOU on and WHERE do YOU fall?

*insert evil smile here* ;-)


This may help with the cost factor.

I already listed my two diets. Gaining weight on the cheaper one and losing weight on the healthier, more expensive one. *innocent smile*

Oh dear, I know.

That wasn't aimed toward you. But I'm just curious in general about the argument that lack of money makes people eat food.

Fyi:

- I grew up in poverty. I'm the overweight person in my family @ 5'5 and 158. Everybody else weighs no more than 130
- I was once a vegetarian for 2 years, and then a vegan for 2 years, and even a vegan chef. My doctors advised me to stop because of my epilepsy and sugar, carb intake, and the battle of my vitamins versus my medication (I have epilepsy)
-So I am now on a doctor advised Keto diet. While my fiance is...not.

So, the whole topic intrigues me, and for many reasons

I didn't know there were doctors out there who recommended keto still, good for them for doing that instead of loading up a new batch of meds and sending you on your way. I hope it works great for you. I was a vegetarian at one time, too. For some reason as I've gotten older it just doesn't work for me anymore.

Completely understandable. As my doctor's described to me with my vegetarian diet, my body was requiring more energy and
I couldn't maintain what I needed with what I was consuming. Like many diet's, what works for one, doesn't work for another.

And yeah, they had recommended a lifestyle change with me watching sugar intake, but then I realized that much of my sugars came in carbs, because I STILL ate so many....constantly craving them, so I ended up doing a trial, a light one because I was concerned about the effects, because I already had an appointment booked, approached them, and they approved it once my tests came back normal. I've actually been able to reduce meds and went without seizures since beginning it.

Mr_Knight

People don't have to do anything. but it's nice to know from yoiur perspective that larger sizes have nothing to do with increased food consumption, thanks.:flowerforyou:

That is correct. Adding larger sizes to menus has zero impact on food consumption.

Increased food consumption, on the other hand, has a direct impact on available serving sizes.

Jestinia

So, are you saying you think they would have included evidence that did not fit the conclusion they came to?

The documentary? Yes, they possibly left out evidence that didn't fit their conclusion. The peer reviewed research paper? Less likely but certainly not impossible. Should we throw out all scientific research because we can't know for certain? The best we can do is avoid research funded for obviously self-serving reasons, such as corporate funded research 'showing' a company's products are safe that are done by the company itself. And even then sometimes the research is accurate.

Jestinia

Keto was invented by doctors to treat epilepsy.

True, but that was before medication existed to control it. And many doctors seem more inclined to prescribe medication (if they exist) than to prescribe dietary changes. To be fair, it is much easier to get someone to comply with taking a pill every day than to comply with giving up a huge portion of the average American diet.