It's NOT always as simple as a deficit
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Therefore, if there is no difference in weight loss between eating at a calorie deficit by varying macros, but eating higher protein maintains lean mass, this means macros DO matter in fat loss. In other words you will lose more fat by eating a higher protein diet because the weight lost is less likely to be lean mass.
Now we are getting somewhere.
Macros do matter for portion of weight lost from fat vs lean. As QuietBloom notes, we've been there all along. But I'm glad you're approaching the station.
As most people are intending to lose fat and not muscle when they attempt to lose weight, I cannot understand why anyone would say macros don't matter only calorie deficit works! Seems very disingenuous to me to suggest otherwise (repeatedly, I might add). A calorie of carb energy does not have the same metabolic effect as a calorie of protein. Isn't that what I have been saying all along?0 -
So why say it unless you thought it had some context? :huh:
I am confused, because you just mentioned studies that show a specific protein intake optimises calorie restricted diets. I think you meant this optimises building muscle mass not calorie restriction!
You are not going to build muscle while in a calorie deficit. :huh:
Again, I know and never said anything of the sort!
And neither did I. So WTH?0 -
it actually is as simple as a deficit. if you burn 1800 in a day, and consume less, you will lose weight. if you dont, you are in 1 of 2 categories... number 1, and the most obvious... your doing something wrong!!! either under estimating your intake or overestimating your burn, maybe not logging everything, not measuring or weighing everything, or logging the wrong items... or, the 2nd option, you are one of those with a medical condition, such as thyoid issus, which, while possible, is usually not the case if up until now you have not been diagnosed due to other signs and symptoms...
its very simple, calories in / energy out.
maintain a deficit, A REAL DEFICIT, and you will lose.0 -
Therefore, if there is no difference in weight loss between eating at a calorie deficit by varying macros, but eating higher protein maintains lean mass, this means macros DO matter in fat loss. In other words you will lose more fat by eating a higher protein diet because the weight lost is less likely to be lean mass.
Now we are getting somewhere.
Macros do matter for portion of weight lost from fat vs lean. As QuietBloom notes, we've been there all along. But I'm glad you're approaching the station.
As most people are intending to lose fat and not muscle when they attempt to lose weight, I cannot understand why anyone would say macros don't matter only calorie deficit works! Seems very disingenuous to me to suggest otherwise (repeatedly, I might add). A calorie of carb energy does not have the same metabolic effect as a calorie of protein. Isn't that what I have been saying all along?
No one ever says calories don't matter.
Calories are the determining factor in whether you are losing, maintaining, or gaining body mass. Period. Macros influence the portion of mass change from fat vs lean, but macros have no influence on whether the overall change is positive, negative, or zero (within reasonable bounds).0 -
Therefore, if there is no difference in weight loss between eating at a calorie deficit by varying macros, but eating higher protein maintains lean mass, this means macros DO matter in fat loss. In other words you will lose more fat by eating a higher protein diet because the weight lost is less likely to be lean mass.
Now we are getting somewhere.
Macros do matter for portion of weight lost from fat vs lean. As QuietBloom notes, we've been there all along. But I'm glad you're approaching the station.
As most people are intending to lose fat and not muscle when they attempt to lose weight, I cannot understand why anyone would say macros don't matter only calorie deficit works! Seems very disingenuous to me to suggest otherwise (repeatedly, I might add). A calorie of carb energy does not have the same metabolic effect as a calorie of protein. Isn't that what I have been saying all along?
IF people knew or cared what they were losing yes they would watch their macros but let's be frank...when people say they want to lose weight they mean what they say...they are not talking code...
They want to lose weight they don't care how they do all that matters is what the scale says.
So when we say all you need to lose weight is a calorie deficet that is in fact the truth...even with medical issues you need a calorie deficet...it might be slower but that's what you need...
All the rest of it is fine tuning.0 -
As most people are intending to lose fat and not muscle when they attempt to lose weight, I cannot understand why anyone would say macros don't matter only calorie deficit works! Seems very disingenuous to me to suggest otherwise (repeatedly, I might add). A calorie of carb energy does not have the same metabolic effect as a calorie of protein. Isn't that what I have been saying all along?
No one ever says calories don't matter.
Calories are the determining factor in whether you are losing, maintaining, or gaining body mass. Period. Macros influence the portion of mass change from fat vs lean, but macros have no influence on whether the overall change is positive, negative, or zero (within reasonable bounds).
In other words macros can affect fat loss, either by increasing or decreasing fat in proportion to muscle and water. Plus lean body mass determines your metabolic rate. Therefore the correct proportion of macros will ensure that your metabolism is preserved which helps to sustain further fat loss. Macros do matter, it's not just about eating in deficit.0 -
As most people are intending to lose fat and not muscle when they attempt to lose weight, I cannot understand why anyone would say macros don't matter only calorie deficit works! Seems very disingenuous to me to suggest otherwise (repeatedly, I might add). A calorie of carb energy does not have the same metabolic effect as a calorie of protein. Isn't that what I have been saying all along?
IF people knew or cared what they were losing yes they would watch their macros but let's be frank...when people say they want to lose weight they mean what they say...they are not talking code...
They want to lose weight they don't care how they do all that matters is what the scale says.
So when we say all you need to lose weight is a calorie deficet that is in fact the truth...even with medical issues you need a calorie deficet...it might be slower but that's what you need...
All the rest of it is fine tuning.
Rubbish, people want to get rid of the flab - the scale is just a convenient way to measure progress if they have not got a way to accurately measure body fat.
I don' t think your average obese person is fretting about what the scale says; they are worried about their health, fitting into clothes, having mobility to lead a happy life, not being looked at or treated differently because of their physical size. All of these things are not made apparent by stepping on a scale!0 -
I don' t think your average obese person is fretting about what the scale says; they are worried about their health, fitting into clothes, having mobility to lead a happy life, not being looked at or treated differently because of their physical size.
And all of these they can achieve. Through a calorie deficit.
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great study, will definitely book mark that one...0
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paganstar - since you appear to have so much knowledge on this subject, I have a simple question for you. what would you recommend to a beginner the best way to lose weight?0
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it actually is as simple as a deficit. if you burn 1800 in a day, and consume less, you will lose weight. if you dont, you are in 1 of 2 categories... number 1, and the most obvious... your doing something wrong!!! either under estimating your intake or overestimating your burn, maybe not logging everything, not measuring or weighing everything, or logging the wrong items... or, the 2nd option, you are one of those with a medical condition, such as thyoid issus, which, while possible, is usually not the case if up until now you have not been diagnosed due to other signs and symptoms...
its very simple, calories in / energy out.
maintain a deficit, A REAL DEFICIT, and you will lose.
It will work if you have the hormonal machinery working to liberate the fatty acids from your fat cells. In the example above, assume you had been eating and burning 1800 day. Then you decide to eat 1400 a day - you should have a 400 calorie deficit, right? But if your fat metabolism is screwed up and you can only release 200 calories from your fat cells, your metabolism is going to drop to 1600 and you won't lose any weight. Now the person who goes to the doctor with this problem is going to be told that they are probably not counting calories right, they should exercise more, etc.....0 -
So in your example, you're eating 1400 calories and burning 1600 calories.It will work if you have the hormonal machinery working to liberate the fatty acids from your fat cells. In the example above, assume you had been eating and burning 1800 day. Then you decide to eat 1400 a day - you should have a 400 calorie deficit, right? But if your fat metabolism is screwed up and you can only release 200 calories from your fat cells, your metabolism is going to drop to 1600 and you won't lose any weight. Now the person who goes to the doctor with this problem is going to be told that they are probably not counting calories right, they should exercise more, etc.....
You have a deficit of 200.
Why won't you lose weight? Where do the other 200 calories you burn come from?0 -
There is certainly anecdotal evidence that reducing carbohydrates allows people to lose weight while having more energy and being able to eat a similar number of calories than they did previously (though obviously not as extreme as the numbers above - they are for illustration). And there are a few scientific studies that one’s metabolism increases with a lower carb diet.
No not really. It's been quiet effectively knocked down.
http://anthonycolpo.com/finally-a-study-that-proves-a-low-carb-metabolic-advantage-yeah-right/
I don't think he effectively knocked anything down.
He pointed out that not every single subject in the experiment had the same results - wow.
Then he said that the low-carb subjects had slightly higher cortisol levels than the others- CRP level of .87 (low carb) to .78 (low fat). Supposedly this is a big disaster. Note that prior to the study, the subjects had an average of 1.75 (with a range of .4 to 4.6). Doesn't seem to be a very significant finding.
Apart from those two observations of the actual studies, a lot of ranting about low-carb and how there are no studies that show any advantages.0 -
wow.0
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it actually is as simple as a deficit. if you burn 1800 in a day, and consume less, you will lose weight. if you dont, you are in 1 of 2 categories... number 1, and the most obvious... your doing something wrong!!! either under estimating your intake or overestimating your burn, maybe not logging everything, not measuring or weighing everything, or logging the wrong items... or, the 2nd option, you are one of those with a medical condition, such as thyoid issus, which, while possible, is usually not the case if up until now you have not been diagnosed due to other signs and symptoms...
its very simple, calories in / energy out.
maintain a deficit, A REAL DEFICIT, and you will lose.
It will work if you have the hormonal machinery working to liberate the fatty acids from your fat cells. In the example above, assume you had been eating and burning 1800 day. Then you decide to eat 1400 a day - you should have a 400 calorie deficit, right? But if your fat metabolism is screwed up and you can only release 200 calories from your fat cells, your metabolism is going to drop to 1600 and you won't lose any weight. Now the person who goes to the doctor with this problem is going to be told that they are probably not counting calories right, they should exercise more, etc.....
But you see... It doesn't work that way. Because science.0 -
This thread is still going? Ugh.0
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This thread is still going? Ugh.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I was honestly just thinking the same thing. That is why I came in here.0
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