It's NOT always as simple as a deficit
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it actually is as simple as a deficit. if you burn 1800 in a day, and consume less, you will lose weight. if you dont, you are in 1 of 2 categories... number 1, and the most obvious... your doing something wrong!!! either under estimating your intake or overestimating your burn, maybe not logging everything, not measuring or weighing everything, or logging the wrong items... or, the 2nd option, you are one of those with a medical condition, such as thyoid issus, which, while possible, is usually not the case if up until now you have not been diagnosed due to other signs and symptoms...
its very simple, calories in / energy out.
maintain a deficit, A REAL DEFICIT, and you will lose.
It will work if you have the hormonal machinery working to liberate the fatty acids from your fat cells. In the example above, assume you had been eating and burning 1800 day. Then you decide to eat 1400 a day - you should have a 400 calorie deficit, right? But if your fat metabolism is screwed up and you can only release 200 calories from your fat cells, your metabolism is going to drop to 1600 and you won't lose any weight. Now the person who goes to the doctor with this problem is going to be told that they are probably not counting calories right, they should exercise more, etc.....
But you see... It doesn't work that way. Because science.
People can't suffer metabolic disorders because of science? What the f does that mean?0 -
This thread is still going? Ugh.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I was honestly just thinking the same thing. That is why I came in here.
this thing needs to stop or be derailed, or both...0 -
it actually is as simple as a deficit. if you burn 1800 in a day, and consume less, you will lose weight. if you dont, you are in 1 of 2 categories... number 1, and the most obvious... your doing something wrong!!! either under estimating your intake or overestimating your burn, maybe not logging everything, not measuring or weighing everything, or logging the wrong items... or, the 2nd option, you are one of those with a medical condition, such as thyoid issus, which, while possible, is usually not the case if up until now you have not been diagnosed due to other signs and symptoms...
its very simple, calories in / energy out.
maintain a deficit, A REAL DEFICIT, and you will lose.
It will work if you have the hormonal machinery working to liberate the fatty acids from your fat cells. In the example above, assume you had been eating and burning 1800 day. Then you decide to eat 1400 a day - you should have a 400 calorie deficit, right? But if your fat metabolism is screwed up and you can only release 200 calories from your fat cells, your metabolism is going to drop to 1600 and you won't lose any weight. Now the person who goes to the doctor with this problem is going to be told that they are probably not counting calories right, they should exercise more, etc.....
so what, you will still be in a caloric deficit of 200 cals per day …
plus, you are just playing with "hypothetical people" with a "hypothetical metabolic issue"
Look - in the real word if you are eating less calories then you burn/consume then you will lose weight…so whether you do keto, low carb, IIFYM, or ingest magical fairy dust from unicorns, it all boiles down to eating less then you consume to lose weight...0 -
the only thing wrong with "just one slice of pizza" is that it's not two or more slices of pizza :happy:Another fatty trying to justify themselves not being able to lose weight because "just one slice of pizza" is okay. Nothing to see here0 -
Thank you, Mandikaye!! Exactly...
It's hard to believe unless you go through it yourself. Maybe I DO have a medical condition. lol0 -
it actually is as simple as a deficit. if you burn 1800 in a day, and consume less, you will lose weight. if you dont, you are in 1 of 2 categories... number 1, and the most obvious... your doing something wrong!!! either under estimating your intake or overestimating your burn, maybe not logging everything, not measuring or weighing everything, or logging the wrong items... or, the 2nd option, you are one of those with a medical condition, such as thyoid issus, which, while possible, is usually not the case if up until now you have not been diagnosed due to other signs and symptoms...
its very simple, calories in / energy out.
maintain a deficit, A REAL DEFICIT, and you will lose.
It will work if you have the hormonal machinery working to liberate the fatty acids from your fat cells. In the example above, assume you had been eating and burning 1800 day. Then you decide to eat 1400 a day - you should have a 400 calorie deficit, right? But if your fat metabolism is screwed up and you can only release 200 calories from your fat cells, your metabolism is going to drop to 1600 and you won't lose any weight. Now the person who goes to the doctor with this problem is going to be told that they are probably not counting calories right, they should exercise more, etc.....
But you see... It doesn't work that way. Because science.
People can't suffer metabolic disorders because of science? What the f does that mean?
Of course people can suffer from metabolic disorders. But nothing happens in the way that you (oh so entertainingly) described it. BMR can be slightly lower in someone who, let's say, has low thyroid and doesn't know it. But they can still lose weight just as easily as anyone else, by eating less than they burn. The equation holds true, calories don't vanish and reappear out of thin air. It is still calories in, calories out.0 -
People forget about simple concepts like homeostasis. (even me sometimes)
I stalled for a while... ate more... started losing weight again.0 -
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There are many names for it, but the most common are metabolic damage or metabolic adaptation. All this means is your body wants to maintain... the body typically doesn't like the fact we gain or lose weight. It wants to keep balance at ALL times.it actually is as simple as a deficit. if you burn 1800 in a day, and consume less, you will lose weight. if you dont, you are in 1 of 2 categories... number 1, and the most obvious... your doing something wrong!!! either under estimating your intake or overestimating your burn, maybe not logging everything, not measuring or weighing everything, or logging the wrong items... or, the 2nd option, you are one of those with a medical condition, such as thyoid issus, which, while possible, is usually not the case if up until now you have not been diagnosed due to other signs and symptoms...
its very simple, calories in / energy out.
maintain a deficit, A REAL DEFICIT, and you will lose.
It will work if you have the hormonal machinery working to liberate the fatty acids from your fat cells. In the example above, assume you had been eating and burning 1800 day. Then you decide to eat 1400 a day - you should have a 400 calorie deficit, right? But if your fat metabolism is screwed up and you can only release 200 calories from your fat cells, your metabolism is going to drop to 1600 and you won't lose any weight. Now the person who goes to the doctor with this problem is going to be told that they are probably not counting calories right, they should exercise more, etc.....
But you see... It doesn't work that way. Because science.
People can't suffer metabolic disorders because of science? What the f does that mean?
Of course people can suffer from metabolic disorders. But nothing happens in the way that you (oh so entertainingly) described it. BMR can be slightly lower in someone who, let's say, has low thyroid and doesn't know it. But they can still lose weight just as easily as anyone else, by eating less than they burn. The equation holds true, calories don't vanish and reappear out of thin air. It is still calories in, calories out.
Over time whatever calories you eat your body adapts and makes that your maintenance. It learns to use that many calories to sustain as many function as possible. This is why plateaus happen and why people on low calorie diets end up gaining weight rapidly when they eat "maintenance." We sweat because our body is hot and tries to cool off... we shiver because we're cold and the body keeps all the warmth around the central organs which takes heat away from extremities.
Our bodies were made to keep status quo... this is why linear gaining and losing cannot be possible and while theoretically energy expenditure calories in vs. calories out makes theoretical sense... it doesn't account for adaptation.0 -
I just wanted to post a note of support, encouragement, and motivation for those who are eating at a deficit and aren't seeing results. I did that for a long time with no weight loss.
For me, it really isn't as simple as calories in vs. calories out. That means it may not be that simple for you either.
But you CAN find what does work (for me, it means I need to make sure that the calories I do eat include more vegetables and less carbs/processed foods) and then you won't feel so discouraged.
Find what works for YOU instead of beating yourself up when what works for "everyone else" doesn't work. When you find that groove, it's a great feeling.
I read this post yesterday and I have been thinking about since then. The responses were accurate in many cases that it still boils down to a deficit but it seems that a point was missed in the fact that some people need a lot of support and encouragement as they are finding out WHY the typical calculators, the typical recommendations, the typical suggestions, the typical rules of thumb are not working for them.
I think that some people are really doing everything in a way that they feel to be correct. They are weighing and measuring food. They are exercising and using a HRM. They have used the coveted TDEE calculator and set himself/herself at an appropriate deficit. Things "should" work but yet they are struggling WAY more than most people.
It reminds me of my daughter with a diagnosed learning disorder. Reading is "simply decoding the alphabet into words" just as losing weight is "simply eating at a deficit". Most kids learn to read with a combination of sight words, whole language, and phonics. Well she is an avid reader NOW but she really struggled to learn how to read as she didn't see letters the same way. She does not memorize well so sight words/whole language didn't work really well for her. What we finally found, is that she needed a lot of context clues. She started really reading when the school stopped giving her reading that was abstract and nonsensical (see **** run) or Dr. Suess but when she started reading material where she could decode one word by the words around it she went from a very very low reading level to far beyond grade level...she just needed to find her way.
there are people who do things the "right" way for a long time and get very frustrated as it doesn't "quite work" to find out that the methods that are preached as "the way" because of a thyroid condition that makes them need a new calculator, or a medication that means their calorie goals cannot be determined by any calculator they can easily find online. yes reading boils down to decoding written language...but getting to the point of knowing the right way for you will not be the same for everyone...just as the way to find the right level of calories is not same for everyone.0 -
They are exercising and using a HRM.
That's a giant red flag. HRMs are a scourge on this board. The number of people on MFP overestimating their burns because they refuse to take knowledgeable advice on how to use the damn things properly is huge. The number of out of shape people who insist on guesstimating their burns based on perceived effort instead of actual work accomplished is also huge.
Add in the swarms of people who are obese but insist on using non-bodyfat calculations to estimate their BMR/TDEE, and it's pretty clear why and how people are "disproving" CICO/calorie-deficits.
There's no excuse at all for anybody on MFP to struggle "for a long time" with no weight loss.
No excuse at all.0 -
This thread is still going? Ugh.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I was honestly just thinking the same thing. That is why I came in here.
this thing needs to stop or be derailed, or both...
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They are exercising and using a HRM.
That's a giant red flag. HRMs are a scourge on this board. The number of people on MFP overestimating their burns because they refuse to take knowledgeable advice on how to use the damn things properly is huge. The number of out of shape people who insist on guesstimating their burns based on perceived effort instead of actual work accomplished is also huge.
Add in the swarms of people who are obese but insist on using non-bodyfat calculations to estimate their BMR/TDEE, and it's pretty clear why and how people are "disproving" CICO/calorie-deficits.
There's no excuse at all for anybody on MFP to struggle "for a long time" with no weight loss.
No excuse at all.
You mean doing the same thing over and over for weeks or months with no results isn't how things should be done? What next, you suggest personal responsibility and critical thinking be applied or that people actually take control and change things when they don't work?0 -
Wait.... I just got here. :ohwell:0
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This thread is still going? Ugh.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I was honestly just thinking the same thing. That is why I came in here.
this thing needs to stop or be derailed, or both...
This gif made me laugh so hard!! Love it!!:flowerforyou:0 -
This thread is still going? Ugh.
I keep coming back. I can't stop myself.0 -
They are exercising and using a HRM.
That's a giant red flag. HRMs are a scourge on this board. The number of people on MFP overestimating their burns because they refuse to take knowledgeable advice on how to use the damn things properly is huge. The number of out of shape people who insist on guesstimating their burns based on perceived effort instead of actual work accomplished is also huge.
Add in the swarms of people who are obese but insist on using non-bodyfat calculations to estimate their BMR/TDEE, and it's pretty clear why and how people are "disproving" CICO/calorie-deficits.
There's no excuse at all for anybody on MFP to struggle "for a long time" with no weight loss.
No excuse at all.
But the point being...no one knows all of that at first. It has taken me a long time here..over 1200 days to learn all the things I know but when I first started I did things differently, knew less, was frustrated more etc. Some people have a set of circumstances, possibly caused by the health problems due to obesity that change the calculators etc. Some people need a little more support while they learn all the things they need to know so they can find success. Some people need the encouragement not to give up when they feel like they are doing a good job and not finding results. The encouragement can be given without assuming the person "is just doing it wrong". If the same person keeps asking the same question over and over and is given encouragement, and solid information and they do not make changes then the reaction "you are doing it wrong" is better placed but not when they are still learning.0 -
They are exercising and using a HRM.
That's a giant red flag. HRMs are a scourge on this board. The number of people on MFP overestimating their burns because they refuse to take knowledgeable advice on how to use the damn things properly is huge. The number of out of shape people who insist on guesstimating their burns based on perceived effort instead of actual work accomplished is also huge.
Add in the swarms of people who are obese but insist on using non-bodyfat calculations to estimate their BMR/TDEE, and it's pretty clear why and how people are "disproving" CICO/calorie-deficits.
There's no excuse at all for anybody on MFP to struggle "for a long time" with no weight loss.
No excuse at all.
But the point being...no one knows all of that at first.
No, that is most emphatically NOT the point. Quoting the post I responded to:"...there are people who do things the "right" way for a long time..."
This is about people who, for reasons known only to themselves, come here with their weight loss problems and then refuse to listen to the outstanding advice they receive - advice that fixes obvious mistakes in what they are doing - and then proceed to claim that they are special snowflake for whom "caloric deficits" or CICO don't apply.0 -
I think most people are arguing the same thing here. It is about creating a deficit but that deficit need not always be simple.
BMR calculators and the like probably work well for a lot of people out there but in reality they can have up to 20% variance in their results. Everyone's metabolism works differently and a lot of this is down to hormones; thyroid, PCOS and diabetes are examples of hormone imbalances causing dysfunction, but often these imbalances can be asymptomatic and thus very hard to factor into your BMR calculations. There are also unexplained reasons for a variation of almost 30% in BMR between similar individuals.
Here's a very interesting article if you have access: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1086/427059?uid=3738032&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21103339568197
Also: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/5/941.long
So then you adjust. Mfp suggests 1450 for me to lose a pound a week. I moved myself to 1650 then 1700 then 1800 to average that pound a week.
Tweaking calories is a fairly simple process: anyone with basic observational skills can do it.
Not losing weight? Adjust down!
Losing too much? Adjust up!
Repeat until desired rate is found.
Damn. How complicated.
Where it becomes complicated is when your calorie intake is already only 800, 900, 1200 and you still can't lose weight. How low should you adjust?
Well first you learn to count better and log consistently.
Then you adjust until you hit the sweet spot. But learning to count and log has to come first.0 -
>>>>>This is about people who, for reasons known only to themselves, come here with their weight loss problems and then refuse to listen to the outstanding advice they receive - advice that fixes obvious mistakes in what they are doing - and then proceed to claim that they are special snowflake for whom "caloric deficits" or CICO don't apply.>>>>>>>>>
Point taken.
I did say "doing it right for a long time" and it was not clear that people often try "doing it right for a long time" before they reach out for help and start asking more questions. In my head I was thinking that OP was referring to people who were really trying but not finding results and they need support while they figured out the information they need to know to find success.
I am amazed at how little people know. I am amazed at conversations I hear at work from people who are following some new programs etc and yet think that what I do is crazy...you know track calories and exercise. They can be ****ty with me when I eat an orange instead of a many cookies and I train for a race etc. I still think encouraging their efforts is better than not encouraging their efforts even if i have a real sense that the new contest/diet/workout won't last.0
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