Muscle gain from cardio?

ninerbuff

If we're speaking in absolutes.................nothing is impossible. Improbable, more than likely. For the sake of complication to members here (since many are trying to transform their physiques in a shorter time vs a longer one) it's pretty safe to say that if someone is in calorie deficit (who isn't obese, a returning athlete or a complete newbie to exercise) the chances of building any "significant" muscle is improbable.
People saying they gained 2.5lbs of weight after working out for a week or two should know it's not muscle they gained.

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This I agree with, especially the bolded.

I disagree with a flat statement that you cannot lose fat and build muscle at the same time.

Do you believe that muscle is built on a cardio only program? That's the premise (or question) of the OP.

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Leadfoot_Lewis

Let us strike up this conversation a year from now when those who are only doing cardio and eating at a deficit continue increasing their muscle gain and have 20" calves, ripped abs like you see on those muscle builder magazines, a 75" chest and 22" biceps. Arguing is useless in the face of anecdotal evidence when hard, iron clad proof is only a year away.

LOL - I won't hold my breath...and this is coming from someone who's not completely sold on the "can't gain muscle on a deficit" theory.

Ctrum69

Let us strike up this conversation a year from now when those who are only doing cardio and eating at a deficit continue increasing their muscle gain and have 20" calves, ripped abs like you see on those muscle builder magazines, a 75" chest and 22" biceps. Arguing is useless in the face of anecdotal evidence when hard, iron clad proof is only a year away.

LOL - I won't hold my breath...and this is coming from someone who's not completely sold on the "can't gain muscle on a deficit" theory.

How many years did it take Ahnuld to get to his best form and size?

It's a ridiculous statement.

Most of the guys doing that kind of size gain are probably doing it with the aid of medicine, not food.

Ctrum69

If we're speaking in absolutes.................nothing is impossible. Improbable, more than likely. For the sake of complication to members here (since many are trying to transform their physiques in a shorter time vs a longer one) it's pretty safe to say that if someone is in calorie deficit (who isn't obese, a returning athlete or a complete newbie to exercise) the chances of building any "significant" muscle is improbable.
People saying they gained 2.5lbs of weight after working out for a week or two should know it's not muscle they gained.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

This I agree with, especially the bolded.

I disagree with a flat statement that you cannot lose fat and build muscle at the same time.

Do you believe that muscle is built on a cardio only program? That's the premise (or question) of the OP.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I believe that some is going to be built, doing things typically classed as "Cardio". I do not believe it's going to be anywhere near the size or speed of people lifting _specifically_ to build muscle mass.

I also don't think that a 2 seater FIT car is going to outperform a Dodge VIper.

I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.

I believe the statement :"If you are looking to gain muscle mass as quickly and easily as possible, you need to lift heavy weights alot, rather than do all cardio" is true.

Greytfish

I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.

You think that builds muscle? Really?

Leadfoot_Lewis

How many years did it take Ahnuld to get to his best form and size?

It's a ridiculous statement.

Most of the guys doing that kind of size gain are probably doing it with the aid of medicine, not food.

Exactly.

Azdak

I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.

You think that builds muscle? Really?

In the scenario described, yes. It's a limited gain, and it is due to the specific adaptation necessary for an untrained person to achieve that level of activity, and it would not continue to increase, and it is not (as the commenter specifically stated) anything like the effects of a progressive resistance training program.

But yes. If we define (again,as the commenter has done), "muscle gain" as "any increase in muscle mass anywhere".

Ctrum69

I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.

You think that builds muscle? Really?

You think it builds no muscle at all? Really?

tappae

Initially if you're pushing/pulling at a much higher weight than you used to be, you'll gain some newbie muscle, but load has to progress (meaning you'd have to gain weight) to continue to build. If one is losing weight, then the resistance is being reduced.

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First, I would like to say that I agree with everyone saying that the OP gained water weight. I've personally fluctuated more than 15 pounds in a single day.

At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.

I think I probably gained around 2.5 pounds of muscle last year doing mostly just running. Of course, I also gained around 40 pounds of fat, so there was some "progressive overload."

Greytfish

I think that saying to someone who went from a couch to running 10 miles a day on roads with elevation changes that they built "no" muscle is probably untrue.

You think that builds muscle? Really?

You think it builds no muscle at all? Really?

Running will train existing muscle mass and you can condition it to store more glycogen which can be mistaken for building muscle mass, but no there is not measurable muscle building from cardio.

Do you do endurance running, perchance?

At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.

Feeling soreness and fatigue from running and glycogen depletion is not a sign of building muscle.

MoreBean13

@Ctrum69 - Where are you currently at in your program? Are you just starting an exercise program from being formerly sedentary? Are you looking to lose fat, gain muscle? What's your current BF%? What's your prior experience (did you used to be a distance runner or a cyclist or something?)

I'm just trying to understand your perspective here..what's making you tick on this issue.

Ctrum69

@Ctrum69 - Where are you currently at in your program? Are you just starting an exercise program from being formerly sedentary? Are you looking to lose fat, gain muscle? What's your current BF%? What's your prior experience (did you used to be a distance runner or a cyclist or something?)

I'm just trying to understand your perspective here..what's making you tick on this issue.

I'm just interested in the fact vs the conventional browisdom.

ANd you can see that in play. "Go run! Tell me when you have 22" calves!" well duh.. nobody is saying you will build like a body builder running, cycling, etc.

I see lots of people going "You can't do it" then linking to some site oriented to selling you a workout plan, "gainers' or equipment.

I also see some science being quoted, which is great, but in reading it, I'm not sure it says what people claim it says.

I guess, what I'm seeing is a lot of absolutes slung around, which are not absolutes at all.

I also suspect that it's quite possible to be 30 pounds overweight, start lifting while eating at a sleight deficit, and put on muscle mass. Perhaps not as quickly or as easily as someone who is already at an ideal ratio and doing "everything right" and perhaps not without paying close attention to how much, and what, you are eating, but possible.

Not a 22" calf or a 75" chest. Course, 99%of the people out there can't do that with all the time and weights in the world, so it's a really silly statement to make.

ninerbuff

At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.

Practically any physical activity for that long will promote soreness. Doing situps or chewing food for that long would results in feeling it in the muscles the next couple of days.
If somebody did cardio kickboxing with me (no gloves, just air box) for 6 hours, they'd feel it for sure, but it's not a muscle building workout.

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IronPlayground

Initially if you're pushing/pulling at a much higher weight than you used to be, you'll gain some newbie muscle, but load has to progress (meaning you'd have to gain weight) to continue to build. If one is losing weight, then the resistance is being reduced.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

First, I would like to say that I agree with everyone saying that the OP gained water weight. I've personally fluctuated more than 15 pounds in a single day.

At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.

I think I probably gained around 2.5 pounds of muscle last year doing mostly just running. Of course, I also gained around 40 pounds of fat, so there was some "progressive overload."

You missed a big chunk of the debate where most people agreed that running hills, like you would in trail running, would lead to some muscle gained. Especially when eating in a surplus. Which you probably did if you gained 40 lbs.

And, no thanks on the 6 hour trail run. Not my idea of fun. Awesome you can do that, though.

tappae

You missed a big chunk of the debate where most people agreed that running hills, like you would in trail running, would lead to some muscle gained. Especially when eating in a surplus. Which you probably did if you gained 40 lbs.

And, no thanks on the 6 hour trail run. Not my idea of fun. Awesome you can do that, though.

Yeah, I saw that, but two people have already responded to me saying that I didn't build muscle while running hills for hours on a caloric surplus while gaining weight. It's not like a claimed a huge gain. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than two pounds of muscle. A glance down at my belly convinces me that I gained mostly fat. Still, I would be really surprised if I gained zero muscle.

edited to remove a failed attempt at making the word zero bold.

tappae

At the same time, anyone who thinks you can't build muscle doing "cardio" should come with me on a 6 hour trail run! I guarantee you'll feel that in your muscles the next day.

Practically any physical activity for that long will promote soreness. Doing situps or chewing food for that long would results in feeling it in the muscles the next couple of days.
If somebody did cardio kickboxing with me (no gloves, just air box) for 6 hours, they'd feel it for sure, but it's not a muscle building workout.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Full disclosure: my longest training run last year was only 5.5 hours, and I wasn't sore the next day.

mustgetmuscles1

You missed a big chunk of the debate where most people agreed that running hills, like you would in trail running, would lead to some muscle gained. Especially when eating in a surplus. Which you probably did if you gained 40 lbs.

And, no thanks on the 6 hour trail run. Not my idea of fun. Awesome you can do that, though.

Yeah, I saw that, but two people have already responded to me saying that I didn't build muscle while running hills for hours on a caloric surplus while gaining weight. It's not like a claimed a huge gain. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if it was less than two pounds of muscle. A glance down at my belly convinces me that I gained mostly fat. Still, I would be really surprised if I gained zero muscle.

edited to remove a failed attempt at making the word zero bold.

I am not claiming that cardio never builds muscle or trying to bring down your accomplishments but gaining a couple of pounds of muscle probably would have happened without the cardio after gaining 40lbs.

When you gain that much weight you are likely to gain some LBM along with it.

Fullsterkur_woman

I am not claiming that cardio never builds muscle or trying to bring down your accomplishments but gaining a couple of pounds of muscle probably would have happened without the cardio after gaining 40lbs.

When you gain that much weight you are likely to gain some LBM along with it.

Absolutely true. In 4.5 years, I gained 40.4 pounds. 32.2 was fat and 8.1 was muscle. And during that time frame were periods of chronic cardio, bodybuilding-style hypertrophy programming, lifting in the strength-gaining range, absolutely sedentary activity levels and a return to lifting that paid attention to regaining form and worked in the hypertrophy/endurance ranges. In the larger picture, carrying around extra weight all day, every day while in a calorie surplus is probably the biggest stimulus to adding the muscle, and that is something that is common to both myself and the trail runner, despite our disparate training regimens.

tappae

I am not claiming that cardio never builds muscle or trying to bring down your accomplishments but gaining a couple of pounds of muscle probably would have happened without the cardio after gaining 40lbs.

When you gain that much weight you are likely to gain some LBM along with it.

I'm sure that's fair. Still, I likely gained more than I would have being sedentary, right?
(I've never used any sort of accurate bf% measurement, so it's all a guess anyway)

mustgetmuscles1

I am not claiming that cardio never builds muscle or trying to bring down your accomplishments but gaining a couple of pounds of muscle probably would have happened without the cardio after gaining 40lbs.

When you gain that much weight you are likely to gain some LBM along with it.

I'm sure that's fair. Still, I likely gained more than I would have being sedentary, right?
(I've never used any sort of accurate bf% measurement, so it's all a guess anyway)

No way to know for certain. Just carrying the extra weight would increase the resistance of everything you do.

The good thing is that staying active was probably a good thing for overall health after adding an extra 30lbs of body fat.