Paleo Lifestyle Change?

Mr_Knight

You can do your own homework.

I've done my home work, I was just curious if you had to, or if you were just peeking over the shoulder of one of the other misinformed members!

I'm not here to convince you of anything. You clearly believe what you're going to believe, and there is nothing I can say and no "study" I can post a link to that will change that. Nor is it my job to even try.

If you were open to an actual discussion, that would be a different matter - but you are very clearly not. So...obladi oblada...do what you gotta do. Including the juvenile ad hominem attacks you seem to love so much....

likitisplit

Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.

Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.

A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.

50 + 60 -> 110

That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.

And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?

Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.

There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.

What are you basing your assumption on - please post a link to the study for our perusal.

You can do your own homework.

I've done my home work, I was just curious if you had to, or if you were just peeking over the shoulder of one of the other misinformed members!

LOL. You post a study and you "rely on other people's knowledge" You post a cogent explanation in your own words and "Post a study"

lindsey1979

Atkins doesn't eliminate carbs. You are eating, or should be, eating a lot of vegetables along with your proteins and fats for the first few weeks.

Then you start upping your carb counts slowly all the while adding back in higher carb vegetables, fruits, nuts / seeds, dairy, grains.

Get your facts straight before stating incorrect information.

P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.

"The minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates necessary for survival is 130 grams or 520 kcal per day."

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/humansciences/content/carbohydrate

The Atkins diet requires less than that in the first phase:

What You Can Eat and What You Can't

The first part of the plan, called the induction phase, has these rules:

No more than 20 grams of carbohydrates per day, mostly from certain vegetables
Protein and fat from poultry, fish, eggs, red meat, butter, and vegetable oils
No pasta, bread, grains, fruit, starchy vegetables, or dairy other than butter, cheese, and cream
No nuts, seeds, or legumes like beans
No caffeine
No alcohol

Next comes the "ongoing weight loss" stage, when you slowly add more vegetables, and you can include seeds, nuts, legumes, berries and other fruit, wine and other low-carb alcohol, and whole grains.

After that, to help keep the weight off, you may be able to eat more carbs and add more foods to your diet, depending on your body's needs.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/atkins-diet-what-it-is

Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.

I've been eating well below 130/day for two years, so I'm thinking that there must be some other factors or caveats involved with that.

The 130 number is what the brain requires to function properly.

http://medquarterly.com/mq88/index.php/n-biochemphysio/article/28-metabolism

Do they perhaps not mean carbs as in dietary carbs then? That this is the level of glucose that would be needed for proper function and what it would equal in dietary carbs but could be obtained by other sources (i.e. liver break down of fats and protein)?

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Atkins doesn't eliminate carbs. You are eating, or should be, eating a lot of vegetables along with your proteins and fats for the first few weeks.

Then you start upping your carb counts slowly all the while adding back in higher carb vegetables, fruits, nuts / seeds, dairy, grains.

Get your facts straight before stating incorrect information.

P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.

"The minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates necessary for survival is 130 grams or 520 kcal per day."

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/humansciences/content/carbohydrate

The Atkins diet requires less than that in the first phase:

What You Can Eat and What You Can't

The first part of the plan, called the induction phase, has these rules:

No more than 20 grams of carbohydrates per day, mostly from certain vegetables
Protein and fat from poultry, fish, eggs, red meat, butter, and vegetable oils
No pasta, bread, grains, fruit, starchy vegetables, or dairy other than butter, cheese, and cream
No nuts, seeds, or legumes like beans
No caffeine
No alcohol

Next comes the "ongoing weight loss" stage, when you slowly add more vegetables, and you can include seeds, nuts, legumes, berries and other fruit, wine and other low-carb alcohol, and whole grains.

After that, to help keep the weight off, you may be able to eat more carbs and add more foods to your diet, depending on your body's needs.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/atkins-diet-what-it-is

Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.

I've been eating well below 130/day for two years, so I'm thinking that there must be some other factors or caveats involved with that.

The 130 number is what the brain requires to function properly.

http://medquarterly.com/mq88/index.php/n-biochemphysio/article/28-metabolism

The amount of carbs required for the brain to function properly is ZERO. Only 15% or less of brain cells NEED glucose to function and guess what, the liver can manufacture protein into glucose, so NO NEED for carbs.

neanderthin

Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.

Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.

A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.

50 + 60 -> 110

That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.

And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?

Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.

There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.

What are you basing your assumption on - please post a link to the study for our perusal.

When enough protein is consumed, gluconeogenesis can supply all the glucose the body requires while still maintaining lean body mass.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7351177

PaleoPath4Lyfe

P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.

I would not be so sure of that...

I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.

Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.

The process you are referring to (gluconeogenesis) is also a STRESS response. Meaning at all costs... the body will make it's own glucose if it has to. So again, I would not be so sure of that...

Cardiac muscle prefers fat in the forms of ketones and the brain runs just fine on ketones also. A small fraction of the brain cells, around 15%, need glucose along with a few other tissues like the renal cortex, the lens of the eye, red blood cells and sperm. Those needs are met by glucose from the liver as it produces glucose from proteins.

There is no such thing as essential carbs in the human diet.

You are jumping to a conclusion based only on the bodies ability to adapt... again, I would not be so sure.

That is not a conclusion, it is fact. Carbs are not essential.

neanderthin

Atkins doesn't eliminate carbs. You are eating, or should be, eating a lot of vegetables along with your proteins and fats for the first few weeks.

Then you start upping your carb counts slowly all the while adding back in higher carb vegetables, fruits, nuts / seeds, dairy, grains.

Get your facts straight before stating incorrect information.

P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.

"The minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates necessary for survival is 130 grams or 520 kcal per day."

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/humansciences/content/carbohydrate

The Atkins diet requires less than that in the first phase:

What You Can Eat and What You Can't

The first part of the plan, called the induction phase, has these rules:

No more than 20 grams of carbohydrates per day, mostly from certain vegetables
Protein and fat from poultry, fish, eggs, red meat, butter, and vegetable oils
No pasta, bread, grains, fruit, starchy vegetables, or dairy other than butter, cheese, and cream
No nuts, seeds, or legumes like beans
No caffeine
No alcohol

Next comes the "ongoing weight loss" stage, when you slowly add more vegetables, and you can include seeds, nuts, legumes, berries and other fruit, wine and other low-carb alcohol, and whole grains.

After that, to help keep the weight off, you may be able to eat more carbs and add more foods to your diet, depending on your body's needs.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/atkins-diet-what-it-is

Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.

I've been eating well below 130/day for two years, so I'm thinking that there must be some other factors or caveats involved with that.

The 130 number is what the brain requires to function properly.

http://medquarterly.com/mq88/index.php/n-biochemphysio/article/28-metabolism

The amount of carbs required for the brain to function properly is ZERO. Only 15% or less of brain cells NEED glucose to function and guess what, the liver can manufacture protein into glucose, so NO NEED for carbs.

I didn't mention carbs and I agree with you.

lindsey1979

Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.

Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.

A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.

50 + 60 -> 110

That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.

And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?

Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.

There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.

What are you basing your assumption on - please post a link to the study for our perusal.

When enough protein is consumed, gluconeogenesis can supply all the glucose the body requires while still maintaining lean body mass.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7351177

And there it is for the win!

whitneysaenz

If you are bloating after eating carbs/grains, maybe you could try a Gluten free alternative to the things you're eating. Brown rice pasta instead of whole wheat, gluten-free oats instead of regular, etc. There are plenty of alternatives and that may also help the GERD and bloating instead of eliminating them completely.

tennisdude2004

Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.

Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.

A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.

50 + 60 -> 110

That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.

And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?

Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.

There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.

What are you basing your assumption on - please post a link to the study for our perusal.

You can do your own homework.

I've done my home work, I was just curious if you had to, or if you were just peeking over the shoulder of one of the other misinformed members!

LOL. You post a study and you "rely on other people's knowledge" You post a cogent explanation in your own words and "Post a study"

I'm not the one claiming we need 130g of carbs a day to survive.

J72FIT

Gluconeogenesis - wow isn't the body a wonderful thing. And guess what as long as you're eating enough dietary protein, it doesn't even touch your lean mass.

As I said, it is a STRESS response. So on one hand you could say we need not eat carbs because our body can make it's own glucose, or you could say, glucose is so important that if we are in a situation where we can not get any from food our body will make it's own at all costs. My only point is, we should not be so ready to jump to the conclusion that our bodies have absolutely no physiological need for carbs.

STRESS is that your interpretation or do you have some study I can read?

Also just out of interest - You look in really good shape and I bet your quite healthy- how long have you been healthy for?

As far as gluconeogenesis being a stress response...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11724664

As far as your second question, I am not entirely sure where you're going with that...

Mr_Knight

When enough protein is consumed, gluconeogenesis can supply all the glucose the body requires while still maintaining lean body mass.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7351177

The subjects were both sedentary and obese.

People in that condition can eat not only zero carb, but zero protein and zero fat and still be fine.

ClaudiaTheNice

Hi everyone. I am seriously considering transitioning into a paleo lifestyle. I don't know that I can cut out grains completely, I love my brown rice & occasionally whole wheat pasta & cereal, but I can definitely cut back. Everything that I have been reading about it seems to be great. I have GERD & I've read a lot of reviews that adopting the paleo lifestyle not only cleared it up, but also cleared up a whole slew of other health issues that they had as well. Has anyone adopted the Paleo lifestyle here & can you please tell me what your experience has been by doing so? I'd appreciate your feedback.

Thanks!!
Tiff

As someone who dealt with a plethora of GERD/LPR issues over years, I can tell you that this isn't a bad start and will certainly help with inflammation issues, but the thing that REALLY helped me was focusing on restoring proper gut function through HCl supplementation, digestive enzymes and high quality probiotics.

If you're interested in more information I'd be happy to share it with you!

Probiotics are awesome. I second this.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Atkins doesn't eliminate carbs. You are eating, or should be, eating a lot of vegetables along with your proteins and fats for the first few weeks.

Then you start upping your carb counts slowly all the while adding back in higher carb vegetables, fruits, nuts / seeds, dairy, grains.

Get your facts straight before stating incorrect information.

P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.

"The minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates necessary for survival is 130 grams or 520 kcal per day."

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/humansciences/content/carbohydrate

The Atkins diet requires less than that in the first phase:

What You Can Eat and What You Can't

The first part of the plan, called the induction phase, has these rules:

No more than 20 grams of carbohydrates per day, mostly from certain vegetables
Protein and fat from poultry, fish, eggs, red meat, butter, and vegetable oils
No pasta, bread, grains, fruit, starchy vegetables, or dairy other than butter, cheese, and cream
No nuts, seeds, or legumes like beans
No caffeine
No alcohol

Next comes the "ongoing weight loss" stage, when you slowly add more vegetables, and you can include seeds, nuts, legumes, berries and other fruit, wine and other low-carb alcohol, and whole grains.

After that, to help keep the weight off, you may be able to eat more carbs and add more foods to your diet, depending on your body's needs.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/atkins-diet-what-it-is

Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.

I've been eating well below 130/day for two years, so I'm thinking that there must be some other factors or caveats involved with that.

The 130 number is what the brain requires to function properly.

http://medquarterly.com/mq88/index.php/n-biochemphysio/article/28-metabolism

The amount of carbs required for the brain to function properly is ZERO. Only 15% or less of brain cells NEED glucose to function and guess what, the liver can manufacture protein into glucose, so NO NEED for carbs.

I didn't mention carbs and I agree with you.

I thought I was replying to J72FIT. :flowerforyou:

neanderthin

When enough protein is consumed, gluconeogenesis can supply all the glucose the body requires while still maintaining lean body mass.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7351177

The subjects were both sedentary and obese.

People in that condition can eat not only zero carb, but zero protein and zero fat and still be fine.

Not really, it's takes 1.6g's of protein to be converted to 1g of glucose and if no food whatsoever is consumed then lean mass is required for function. the egg protein did it's job in this scenario. i would have to look at trained people, but I would suspect that the only extra afford would be a higher consumption of protein to help stay in nitrogen balance, but I'm not sure.

dbmata

Hi everyone. I am seriously considering transitioning into a paleo lifestyle.

Are you comfortable with killing your own food? I think that's one of the more challenging aspects of adapting that lifestyle for people.

likitisplit

When enough protein is consumed, gluconeogenesis can supply all the glucose the body requires while still maintaining lean body mass.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7351177

The subjects were both sedentary and obese.

People in that condition can eat not only zero carb, but zero protein and zero fat and still be fine.

Not really, it's takes 1.6g's of protein to be converted to 1g of glucose and if no food whatsoever is consumed then lean mass is required for function. the egg protein did it's job in this scenario. i would have to look at trained people, but I would suspect that the only extra afford would be a higher consumption of protein to help stay in nitrogen balance, but I'm not sure.

That's how I read the abstract too.

I'd still be interested in learning more about the long term impact of a carb-free lifestyle.

My understanding has been that using glycogen from protein builds up toxins that can damage the liver and that the brain requires a level of glycogen that can't be met with fat alone. Sure, in the short-term survival situation we can adapt, but there are long-term effects to excluding one of the three macro-nutrients.

tennisdude2004

When enough protein is consumed, gluconeogenesis can supply all the glucose the body requires while still maintaining lean body mass.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7351177

The subjects were both sedentary and obese.

People in that condition can eat not only zero carb, but zero protein and zero fat and still be fine.

Not really, it's takes 1.6g's of protein to be converted to 1g of glucose and if no food whatsoever is consumed then lean mass is required for function. the egg protein did it's job in this scenario. i would have to look at trained people, but I would suspect that the only extra afford would be a higher consumption of protein to help stay in nitrogen balance, but I'm not sure.

I hate to do it but I'm going to have to side with Neanderthin on this. (only joking dude - hugs from earlier).

dbmata

Wow, looks like I missed a 3 dude circle jerk a few hours ago.

Damn, I just bought a go pro too.

Tony_Von_Stryfe

I have cut out all grains with the exception of beer for the last five weeks and I think I have had some pretty decent success. My weight has remained stable, but I had to tighten my belt another notch last week. Besides, any nutritional regiment that gives bacon the OK is good with me!