Paleo Lifestyle Change?
Replies
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http://www.extension.iastate.edu/humansciences/content/carbohydrate
"The minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates necessary for survival is 130 grams or 520 kcal per day. However, this level is recommended only to support the central nervous system, red blood cell production, and tissues dependent on glucose; it does not support any physical activity."
Essentially, my understanding is that your brain needs them. It can't use the energy from your fat stores.
http://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/2935/why-cant-the-brain-and-red-blood-cells-use-fuels-other-than-glucose
your body needs glucose to help support the brain and other organs, but why would you need to eat carbs? and again at those levels???
I do much better on 200 grams of carbs. Only 130g would have me feeling pretty hungry.
Sorry that's not an answer - still waiting!0 -
P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.
I would not be so sure of that...
I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.
Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.0 -
your body needs glucose to help support the brain and other organs, but why would you need to eat carbs? and again at those levels???
You make it sound like 130 grams per day is a lot...0 -
Atkins doesn't eliminate carbs. You are eating, or should be, eating a lot of vegetables along with your proteins and fats for the first few weeks.
Then you start upping your carb counts slowly all the while adding back in higher carb vegetables, fruits, nuts / seeds, dairy, grains.
Get your facts straight before stating incorrect information.
P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.
"The minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates necessary for survival is 130 grams or 520 kcal per day."
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/humansciences/content/carbohydrate
The Atkins diet requires less than that in the first phase:
What You Can Eat and What You Can't
The first part of the plan, called the induction phase, has these rules:
No more than 20 grams of carbohydrates per day, mostly from certain vegetables
Protein and fat from poultry, fish, eggs, red meat, butter, and vegetable oils
No pasta, bread, grains, fruit, starchy vegetables, or dairy other than butter, cheese, and cream
No nuts, seeds, or legumes like beans
No caffeine
No alcohol
Next comes the "ongoing weight loss" stage, when you slowly add more vegetables, and you can include seeds, nuts, legumes, berries and other fruit, wine and other low-carb alcohol, and whole grains.
After that, to help keep the weight off, you may be able to eat more carbs and add more foods to your diet, depending on your body's needs.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/atkins-diet-what-it-is
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
I've been eating well below 130/day for two years, so I'm thinking that there must be some other factors or caveats involved with that.0 -
Hi everyone. I am seriously considering transitioning into a paleo lifestyle. I don't know that I can cut out grains completely, I love my brown rice & occasionally whole wheat pasta & cereal, but I can definitely cut back. Everything that I have been reading about it seems to be great. I have GERD & I've read a lot of reviews that adopting the paleo lifestyle not only cleared it up, but also cleared up a whole slew of other health issues that they had as well. Has anyone adopted the Paleo lifestyle here & can you please tell me what your experience has been by doing so? I'd appreciate your feedback.
Thanks!!
Tiff
I understand reducing stuff to remove symptoms of GERD. My wife has Crohns and what we learned and that no diet is the right diet. It is an individual effort. I would say start with a food journal and remove some foods and see if symptoms decrease or stay the same. Do this and figure out what foods affect you negatively. Have you been tested for celiac disease? What the wife and I found out is that some foods that are natural and healthy according to most diets still had a negative impact on her gut such as Apples and other fruit and vegtables. IMO when it comes to gut issues its about what affects you and not the diet.
QWe have found out that adding a probiotic helps or adding food such as greek yogurt that has active cultures helped as well.
Your wife has Crohn's? Has she tried cannabis? My husband has been in remission for the last several years because of cannabis. Cannabidiol actually heals the intestinal lining, eliminating the symptoms. He has been able to eat anything since he found the right strains with enough CBD in it.
Haha no she is in remission as well but that is due to having rat proteins.......how many people have that on their diets? I would think you might know what the rat protein is. Even in remission her gut is still sensitive to foods.0 -
your body needs glucose to help support the brain and other organs, but why would you need to eat carbs? and again at those levels???
You make it sound like 130 grams per day is a lot...
Not really I bounce between about 80 - 150g but even those levels are not essential for survival, they just suit my active lifestyle.
I'm just waiting for an answer as to why there essential?0 -
I'm just waiting for an answer as to why there essential?
It's already been answered.0 -
P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.
I would not be so sure of that...
I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.
Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.
The process you are referring to (gluconeogenesis) is also a STRESS response. Meaning at all costs... the body will make it's own glucose if it has to. So again, I would not be so sure of that...0 -
Atkins doesn't eliminate carbs. You are eating, or should be, eating a lot of vegetables along with your proteins and fats for the first few weeks.
Then you start upping your carb counts slowly all the while adding back in higher carb vegetables, fruits, nuts / seeds, dairy, grains.
Get your facts straight before stating incorrect information.
P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.
"The minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates necessary for survival is 130 grams or 520 kcal per day."
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/humansciences/content/carbohydrate
The Atkins diet requires less than that in the first phase:
What You Can Eat and What You Can't
The first part of the plan, called the induction phase, has these rules:
No more than 20 grams of carbohydrates per day, mostly from certain vegetables
Protein and fat from poultry, fish, eggs, red meat, butter, and vegetable oils
No pasta, bread, grains, fruit, starchy vegetables, or dairy other than butter, cheese, and cream
No nuts, seeds, or legumes like beans
No caffeine
No alcohol
Next comes the "ongoing weight loss" stage, when you slowly add more vegetables, and you can include seeds, nuts, legumes, berries and other fruit, wine and other low-carb alcohol, and whole grains.
After that, to help keep the weight off, you may be able to eat more carbs and add more foods to your diet, depending on your body's needs.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/atkins-diet-what-it-is
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
I've been eating well below 130/day for two years, so I'm thinking that there must be some other factors or caveats involved with that.
Under 130g for 2 days. Lindsey, don't move stay calm, I'm calling you an ambulance!!!0 -
P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.
I would not be so sure of that...
I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.
Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.
The process you are referring to (gluconeogenesis) is also a STRESS response. Meaning at all costs... the body will make it's own glucose if it has to. So again, I would not be so sure of that...
Gluconeogenesis - wow isn't the body a wonderful thing. And guess what as long as you're eating enough dietary protein, it doesn't even touch your lean mass.
So again why 130g of carbs?????? Seeing as how we're all so keen on getting our science correct.0 -
Based on personal experience i would recommend trying out a paleo/primal diet to fight GERD symptoms. I dealt this pretty bad GERD for years, i was also overweight and inactive. I switched to a paleo diet about a year ago and added a lot more physical activity. I am not a nutritionist or scientist etc, but i can say i have been heartburn free for about the last 9 months. i've also lost a lot of weight and i'm the strongest i've ever been. Anyway, i can't say its all due to paleo/primal eating or not, but i think it helped me a lot.0
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Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.
A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.
50 + 60 -> 110
That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.
ETA: For the many people who function like crap in ketosis, add another 50g right off the bat, so those folks are already at 160/day.
ETA2: It should be obvious, but in case it isn't, NEAT/Exercise above "bare minimum" is going to have to be largely carbs. The more active you are, the more you need carbs if you want to sustain the high level of activity.0 -
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.
A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.
50 + 60 -> 110
That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.
And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?0 -
I just trying to think of it based on processes, and I can see enough glucose being generated from proteins and fats by your liver to survive, though I'd guess that would not be optimal. That's part of the reason you lose LBM when you diet -- your body breaks down both fat and protein for energy. To perform optimally, for most people, I would think carbs would be recommended just so your body doesn't have to jump so many hoops making glucose from other, more difficult sources. But could you survive without them? Probably...I'm just betting that the ability to eat carbs and source nutrition from them is a huge adaptive advantage we and other omnivores have.0
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your body needs glucose to help support the brain and other organs, but why would you need to eat carbs? and again at those levels???
You make it sound like 130 grams per day is a lot...
Yeah, that might be a lot for someone who lies in bed all day. But for those of us who move around, or even *gasp* exercise, that's not nearly enough. carbs = energy0 -
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.
A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.
50 + 60 -> 110
That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.
And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?
Right, but if you're getting adequate nitrogen and amino acids in your diet, there would be no need to strip those out of your muscles, right?0 -
P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.
I would not be so sure of that...
I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.
Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.
The process you are referring to (gluconeogenesis) is also a STRESS response. Meaning at all costs... the body will make it's own glucose if it has to. So again, I would not be so sure of that...
Cardiac muscle prefers fat in the forms of ketones and the brain runs just fine on ketones also. A small fraction of the brain cells, around 15%, need glucose along with a few other tissues like the renal cortex, the lens of the eye, red blood cells and sperm. Those needs are met by glucose from the liver as it produces glucose from proteins.
There is no such thing as essential carbs in the human diet.0 -
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.
A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.
50 + 60 -> 110
That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.
And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?
Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.
There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.0 -
your body needs glucose to help support the brain and other organs, but why would you need to eat carbs? and again at those levels???
You make it sound like 130 grams per day is a lot...
Yeah, that might be a lot for someone who lies in bed all day. But for those of us who move around, or even *gasp* exercise, that's not nearly enough. carbs = energy
I trained for 4 months and ran a half marathon on less than that. So, not necessarily.0 -
Gluconeogenesis - wow isn't the body a wonderful thing. And guess what as long as you're eating enough dietary protein, it doesn't even touch your lean mass.
As I said, it is a STRESS response. So on one hand you could say we need not eat carbs because our body can make it's own glucose, or you could say, glucose is so important that if we are in a situation where we can not get any from food our body will make it's own at all costs. My only point is, we should not be so ready to jump to the conclusion that our bodies have absolutely no physiological need for carbs.0 -
your body needs glucose to help support the brain and other organs, but why would you need to eat carbs? and again at those levels???
You make it sound like 130 grams per day is a lot...
Yeah, that might be a lot for someone who lies in bed all day. But for those of us who move around, or even *gasp* exercise, that's not nearly enough. carbs = energy
Monday - 2 hours of tennis
Tuesday - 2 hours of tennis
Wednesday 1.5 hours of Ju jitsu
Friday - Sprint session
Saturday - recreational swimming
Sunday hiking or biking
Only on Wednesday and Friday do I need to eat more than 100g of carbs, but definitely no more than 150g.
On the other days I'm probably at about 80g.
No drop in energy and certainly more consistent energy than when I was eating 150g plus of carbs a day.0 -
P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.
I would not be so sure of that...
I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.
Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.
The process you are referring to (gluconeogenesis) is also a STRESS response. Meaning at all costs... the body will make it's own glucose if it has to. So again, I would not be so sure of that...
Cardiac muscle prefers fat in the forms of ketones and the brain runs just fine on ketones also. A small fraction of the brain cells, around 15%, need glucose along with a few other tissues like the renal cortex, the lens of the eye, red blood cells and sperm. Those needs are met by glucose from the liver as it produces glucose from proteins.
There is no such thing as essential carbs in the human diet.
I think he's right on this.0 -
The 130 number is what the brain requires to function properly.Atkins doesn't eliminate carbs. You are eating, or should be, eating a lot of vegetables along with your proteins and fats for the first few weeks.
Then you start upping your carb counts slowly all the while adding back in higher carb vegetables, fruits, nuts / seeds, dairy, grains.
Get your facts straight before stating incorrect information.
P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.
"The minimum recommended intake of carbohydrates necessary for survival is 130 grams or 520 kcal per day."
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/humansciences/content/carbohydrate
The Atkins diet requires less than that in the first phase:
What You Can Eat and What You Can't
The first part of the plan, called the induction phase, has these rules:
No more than 20 grams of carbohydrates per day, mostly from certain vegetables
Protein and fat from poultry, fish, eggs, red meat, butter, and vegetable oils
No pasta, bread, grains, fruit, starchy vegetables, or dairy other than butter, cheese, and cream
No nuts, seeds, or legumes like beans
No caffeine
No alcohol
Next comes the "ongoing weight loss" stage, when you slowly add more vegetables, and you can include seeds, nuts, legumes, berries and other fruit, wine and other low-carb alcohol, and whole grains.
After that, to help keep the weight off, you may be able to eat more carbs and add more foods to your diet, depending on your body's needs.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/atkins-diet-what-it-is
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
I've been eating well below 130/day for two years, so I'm thinking that there must be some other factors or caveats involved with that.
http://medquarterly.com/mq88/index.php/n-biochemphysio/article/28-metabolism0 -
P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.
I would not be so sure of that...
I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.
Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.
The process you are referring to (gluconeogenesis) is also a STRESS response. Meaning at all costs... the body will make it's own glucose if it has to. So again, I would not be so sure of that...
Cardiac muscle prefers fat in the forms of ketones and the brain runs just fine on ketones also. A small fraction of the brain cells, around 15%, need glucose along with a few other tissues like the renal cortex, the lens of the eye, red blood cells and sperm. Those needs are met by glucose from the liver as it produces glucose from proteins.
There is no such thing as essential carbs in the human diet.
You are jumping to a conclusion based only on the bodies ability to adapt... again, I would not be so sure.0 -
Gluconeogenesis - wow isn't the body a wonderful thing. And guess what as long as you're eating enough dietary protein, it doesn't even touch your lean mass.
As I said, it is a STRESS response. So on one hand you could say we need not eat carbs because our body can make it's own glucose, or you could say, glucose is so important that if we are in a situation where we can not get any from food our body will make it's own at all costs. My only point is, we should not be so ready to jump to the conclusion that our bodies have absolutely no physiological need for carbs.
STRESS is that your interpretation or do you have some study I can read?
Also just out of interest - You look in really good shape and I bet your quite healthy- how long have you been healthy for?0 -
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.
A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.
50 + 60 -> 110
That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.
And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?
Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.
There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.
What are you basing your assumption on - please post a link to the study for our perusal.0 -
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.
A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.
50 + 60 -> 110
That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.
And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?
Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.
There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.
What are you basing your assumption on - please post a link to the study for our perusal.
You can do your own homework.0 -
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.
A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.
50 + 60 -> 110
That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.
And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?
Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.
There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.
Also your muscles and liver can store Glycogen as well (not just burn for fuel or in the case of your liver produce it). The human body is amazing and it has a great genetic memory and if you condition it to perform a certain way, guess what it responds.0 -
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.
A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.
50 + 60 -> 110
That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.
And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?
Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.
There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.
What are you basing your assumption on - please post a link to the study for our perusal.
You can do your own homework.
I've done my home work, I was just curious if you had to, or if you were just peeking over the shoulder of one of the other misinformed members!0 -
Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.
Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.
A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.
50 + 60 -> 110
That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.
And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?
Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.
There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.
Also your muscles and liver can store Glycogen as well (not just burn for fuel or in the case of your liver produce it). The human body is amazing and it has a great genetic memory and if you condition it to perform a certain way, guess what it responds.
Genetic memory isn't the right term for what you mean.0
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