If cutting cal= losing,y do people want ketosis?

ShadowMist124

Sorry for the short forms, had to limit my characters.

Keto diet, LCHF, VLCD, limiting carb and protein, ketostix etc.?
I'm just curious about how things work and I'm not denying the effectiveness of calories cutting (But I haven't had real success with it).

Can someone kindly explain? thanks!

gypsy_spirit

Bottom line - it's about being in a calorie deficit to lose weight. Getting there is a personal choice. You can google all the terms you posted and see what they are, the benefits, the drawbacks, etc. Other than that, I'm not sure what you want explained.

ShadowMist124

Thanks for taking the effort to explain. I mean, cutting calories by a little everyday seems to be a pretty easy method to lose weight(fat I hope), but it intrigues me how quite many people try so hard and go so particular to make ketosis happen. It kinda made wonder if ketosis is a must. I certainly want to believe that calorie deficit does cause fat loss.

LKArgh

For most people, because doing something more exotic and hard to follow (not talking specifically about ketosis, this applies IMHO to paleo, very low fat or whatever else that is not that balanced or natural) it makes you feel more special. And since you are trying harder to follow the rules, your mind tells you that it hsould be also more effective. A psychologist would probably be able to explain why, but humans believe that unpleasant = effective
And for some people, like my brother in law, it is putting a label on habits they already have. If he just comes out and say he loves fatty meats and would not touch a fruit, he sounds like an idiot. If he labels this as Atkins diet, he stll does what he always did, but now he has a name for this, so all of a sudden it has become "a diet", vs "crappy eating habits".And no, I do not think this is what most low carb dieters do, or that it cannot be healthy in general, but for some people, it is not really a diet plan, it is just a label.

jennrand

I just started trying Keto a few weeks ago. My husband has been using it off and on for a couple years and he has lost roughly 50 lbs. I'm not trying to lose weight, but rather build muscle. I don't know all the details of this diet...I'm still researching/learning. Basically, when you're in ketosis, your body burns fat for energy instead of carbs. This makes the amount of fat your body retains decrease. When you eat carbs, your body burns those first and stores the fat. You still want to keep your calories under control with keto, but you will want to eat more fat as that is what you are using for energy. Like I said, I'm pretty new to it so I'm definitely not an expert. I just know it seems to be working really well for my husband. I think it's important to remember that everybody is different as as metabolism etc, so what works really well for one person may not work at all for someone else.

ndj1979

Thanks for taking the effort to explain. I mean, cutting calories by a little everyday seems to be a pretty easy method to lose weight(fat I hope), but it intrigues me how quite many people try so hard and go so particular to make ketosis happen. It kinda made wonder if ketosis is a must. I certainly want to believe that calorie deficit does cause fat loss.

keto, low carb, etc are just tools for creating a calorie deficit, they are not a magical fat burning solution. …Keto is not "a must" but some people have success with it. For me, I like my carbs, and I have had success eating them and losing weight (currently down to 12% body fat). I also do not believe in restringing whole food groups…

You can have success if you weigh/measure/log everything, are in a calorie deficit, and work out/move more (the last one is optional)…

so at the end of the day it is all about calorie deficit, it is just how you create said deficit...

cheripugh1

Thanks for taking the effort to explain. I mean, cutting calories by a little everyday seems to be a pretty easy method to lose weight(fat I hope), but it intrigues me how quite many people try so hard and go so particular to make ketosis happen. It kinda made wonder if ketosis is a must. I certainly want to believe that calorie deficit does cause fat loss.

Well cutting calories is not the fastest way, OK wait cutting calories to a safe lower level, is not the fastest way to lose wt. but it is the (in my opinion) smartest way.

The way I'm taking your question are you wondering from those who have or are trying these other ways, why they are and how does it work? (instead of just general online topic information) I am sure there are people on here who have tried or are on them ALL. So if you don't get the information you're hunting for, do separate posts for each one, so they see what interests them.

I'm not real sure on the ketosis, I do know it's where you want to be if you are on the Atkins's diet, it is very low carb. diet so I think it is a result of carb sugars and sorry but I can't remember if it's those sugars your body is rejecting/flushing out (via urine) or hanging onto because they are low enough. I know you buy strips for testing at any store pharmacy area.

ndj1979

I just started trying Keto a few weeks ago. My husband has been using it off and on for a couple years and he has lost roughly 50 lbs. I'm not trying to lose weight, but rather build muscle. I don't know all the details of this diet...I'm still researching/learning. Basically, when you're in ketosis, your body burns fat for energy instead of carbs. This makes the amount of fat your body retains decrease. When you eat carbs, your body burns those first and stores the fat. You still want to keep your calories under control with keto, but you will want to eat more fat as that is what you are using for energy. Like I said, I'm pretty new to it so I'm definitely not an expert. I just know it seems to be working really well for my husband. I think it's important to remember that everybody is different as as metabolism etc, so what works really well for one person may not work at all for someone else.

if you eat carbs and are in a deficit they do not get stored as fat…why does everyone think that carbs magically turn into fat..???

I would question going almost zero carb and trying to build muscles at the same time, as that sounds counter productive to me …but I am sure some have accomplished it...

ndj1979

Thanks for taking the effort to explain. I mean, cutting calories by a little everyday seems to be a pretty easy method to lose weight(fat I hope), but it intrigues me how quite many people try so hard and go so particular to make ketosis happen. It kinda made wonder if ketosis is a must. I certainly want to believe that calorie deficit does cause fat loss.

Well cutting calories is not the fastest way, OK wait cutting calories to a safe lower level, is not the fastest way to lose wt. but it is the (in my opinion) smartest way.

eh? All weight loss/fat burning is from cutting calories, so how is it not the fattest way????? Even keto is cutting calories. …you just accomplish it by eating very low carb...

Skoster1

Everyone is different, some people do well on eating whatever they want but just cutting calories, I end up like this that way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZnB4lL7aMI

For me, and I have no idea about you, my appetite is suppressed when I have moderate protein and my cravings are suppressed when I have high fat. When I eat carbs I crave carbs, especially when I eat simple carbs.

Ketosis is somewhat just a byproduct of a diet which works for me in terms of sustainability. I've read the science, and as someone with a background in medical science I understand it, but ketosis is not the most important thing to me. I'm losing the weight at a reasonable rate and I'm not going batty wishing for food. Today I had to push myself to eat 400 calories this evening to hit my goal. If I had a bit more wiggle room between my goal calories and a safe minimum I probably would have skipped the meal.

That's not to say I don't have days when I go over goal, and I allow myself 500 calories leeway if I want it. It's just easier for me not to constantly be fighting my hunger if I use the diet I use.

So no, in no way is ketosis 'a must' and in fact no one can even honestly tell you if it's right for you except you. Seems to me that you're happy with the loss you're experiencing and the method of doing so. I say go with what you feel best about, and grats on finding a method which works for you! :-)

jennrand

I just started trying Keto a few weeks ago. My husband has been using it off and on for a couple years and he has lost roughly 50 lbs. I'm not trying to lose weight, but rather build muscle. I don't know all the details of this diet...I'm still researching/learning. Basically, when you're in ketosis, your body burns fat for energy instead of carbs. This makes the amount of fat your body retains decrease. When you eat carbs, your body burns those first and stores the fat. You still want to keep your calories under control with keto, but you will want to eat more fat as that is what you are using for energy. Like I said, I'm pretty new to it so I'm definitely not an expert. I just know it seems to be working really well for my husband. I think it's important to remember that everybody is different as as metabolism etc, so what works really well for one person may not work at all for someone else.

if you eat carbs and are in a deficit they do not get stored as fat…why does everyone think that carbs magically turn into fat..???

I would question going almost zero carb and trying to build muscles at the same time, as that sounds counter productive to me …but I am sure some have accomplished it...

I re-read my post and no where does it say the carbs magically turn in to fat. It says the carbs are burned and the fat is stored. I didn't mention it in the post, but you also have to increase your protein intake, which helps with muscle building.
This has been successful for many people. But as I also pointed out, everyone has to find what works for them. Plus, cutting calories and losing weight does not automatically equal being healthier. I'm going to guess that eating x amount of calories that come from meats and vegetables would be much healthier that eating that same amount that come from cakes and doughnuts.

neandermagnon

VLCD there's still a calorie deficit, just a really really big one, which is unsustainable, tends to lead to binge eating and can be bad for health in the long term, which is why it's generally not advised.

cutting specific foods e.g. carbs, fats, going paleo - this is just a way to make a deficit without calorie counting. It doesn't work for everyone because some people will still eat at maintenance in spite of cutting out these foods, and tends to be unnecessarily restrictive as it's possible to lose weight without giving these foods up, by using another method e.g. calorie counting to get a deficit

ketosis is what happens when the body's glycogen depleted (i.e. when the body's short term carb energy store is depleted), this is not necessary for fat loss, but glycogen depletion happens when you're eating at a deficit. Some people think it's necessary for fat loss, but it's not. Whether it results in more fat loss is debatable and has to be balanced out by the fact that without glycogen in your system, the efficiency of your workouts will be very poor, so most people can burn more calories in a workout by not being glycogen depleted.

Basically what you need is:

1. a calorie deficit for weight loss

2. exercise and adequate protein for maintenance of lean body mass

3. a balanced diet, including all the nutrients the body needs for health

4. something you can stick to long term

lowfyr

Ketogenic diet is not about cutting on calories.... you gonna loose weight even by eating more calories then your bmr+actv requires.

But its a pretty hard diet... im not sure if you were talking about the specific keto diet here or just low carb, but

keto diet = about 10-15g carbs a day MAX
low carb = anything under 30/40% carbs

The keto diet is a pretty sadistic diet i have to say, i could only do it for a little over 2 weeks then i had to quit..

heres a calculator wich shows you how many calories fat etc you have to eat :

http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

But just to emphasize this again, its not about cutting calories... its about not eating carbs.

neandermagnon

Ketogenic diet is not about cutting on calories.... you gonna loose weight even by eating more calories then your bmr+actv requires.

proof please


all the peer-reviewed studies I've seen on low carb diets show that people on them are eating at a deficit (even when they think they're eating more) because protein and fat are more filling so they eat less. And also that the amount of weight lost on low carb is the same as would be predicted from the same calorie deficit on a normal diet.

Jestinia

Ketosis causes many people to not be as hungry as they would otherwise be. This makes keeping a deficit easier.

h7463

Sorry for the short forms, had to limit my characters.

Keto diet, LCHF, VLCD, limiting carb and protein, ketostix etc.?
I'm just curious about how things work and I'm not denying the effectiveness of calories cutting (But I haven't had real success with it).

Can someone kindly explain? thanks!

Hi! You will probably find a few more interesting articles about the successful application of those diet variations on a site that revolves more around competitive bodybuilding, like bodybuilding.com
The concept is, that in order to build and sustain the desired muscle mass, the athlete has to build overall mass (fat and muscle) in combination with heavy weight lifting (hight load, few reps). This provides a maximum of food and stimulation for the muscles to grow. While preparing for the competition, at a certain time, the nutrition is adjusted in a way to guarantee lowering of the body fat to the required body fat percentage (there are maximum BF set to qualify, depending on gender and competition class), while the weights are dropped significantly to prevent loss of lean muscle mass (lower weight, high reps). There is no carb/protein/fat macro ratio set in stone for the nutrition plan, the success depends largely on fine-tuning for the individual. The diets you mention are popular for this purpose.
If you look at the vital stats of the competitors, you will see, that they are perfectly happy and training heavily on a significantly higher body weight/fat during 'off season', as compared to competition weight. Those extreme diets are for their competition purpose only, and, even though they seem highly effective, they are everything but healthy, ( e.g. BF for a healthy female around 20-25%, competition BF as low as single digits), and IMO should always be under guidance of an experienced coach or healthcare professional.

kgeyser

I just started trying Keto a few weeks ago. My husband has been using it off and on for a couple years and he has lost roughly 50 lbs. I'm not trying to lose weight, but rather build muscle. I don't know all the details of this diet...I'm still researching/learning. Basically, when you're in ketosis, your body burns fat for energy instead of carbs. This makes the amount of fat your body retains decrease. When you eat carbs, your body burns those first and stores the fat. You still want to keep your calories under control with keto, but you will want to eat more fat as that is what you are using for energy. Like I said, I'm pretty new to it so I'm definitely not an expert. I just know it seems to be working really well for my husband. I think it's important to remember that everybody is different as as metabolism etc, so what works really well for one person may not work at all for someone else.

if you eat carbs and are in a deficit they do not get stored as fat…why does everyone think that carbs magically turn into fat..???

I would question going almost zero carb and trying to build muscles at the same time, as that sounds counter productive to me …but I am sure some have accomplished it...

I re-read my post and no where does it say the carbs magically turn in to fat. It says the carbs are burned and the fat is stored. I didn't mention it in the post, but you also have to increase your protein intake, which helps with muscle building.
This has been successful for many people. But as I also pointed out, everyone has to find what works for them. Plus, cutting calories and losing weight does not automatically equal being healthier. I'm going to guess that eating x amount of calories that come from meats and vegetables would be much healthier that eating that same amount that come from cakes and doughnuts.

Excess calories are stored as fat. Even if you eat carbs, you will still burn body fat if you are in a calorie deficit.

ndj1979

I just started trying Keto a few weeks ago. My husband has been using it off and on for a couple years and he has lost roughly 50 lbs. I'm not trying to lose weight, but rather build muscle. I don't know all the details of this diet...I'm still researching/learning. Basically, when you're in ketosis, your body burns fat for energy instead of carbs. This makes the amount of fat your body retains decrease. When you eat carbs, your body burns those first and stores the fat. You still want to keep your calories under control with keto, but you will want to eat more fat as that is what you are using for energy. Like I said, I'm pretty new to it so I'm definitely not an expert. I just know it seems to be working really well for my husband. I think it's important to remember that everybody is different as as metabolism etc, so what works really well for one person may not work at all for someone else.

if you eat carbs and are in a deficit they do not get stored as fat…why does everyone think that carbs magically turn into fat..???

I would question going almost zero carb and trying to build muscles at the same time, as that sounds counter productive to me …but I am sure some have accomplished it...

I re-read my post and no where does it say the carbs magically turn in to fat. It says the carbs are burned and the fat is stored. I didn't mention it in the post, but you also have to increase your protein intake, which helps with muscle building.
This has been successful for many people. But as I also pointed out, everyone has to find what works for them. Plus, cutting calories and losing weight does not automatically equal being healthier. I'm going to guess that eating x amount of calories that come from meats and vegetables would be much healthier that eating that same amount that come from cakes and doughnuts.

from your post "When you eat carbs, your body burns those first and stores the fat" < if you are in a deficit then carbs cannot be stored as fat ...if you are in surplus then anything you eat - carbs/protein/fat - will be stored as fat...

ndj1979

Ketogenic diet is not about cutting on calories.... you gonna loose weight even by eating more calories then your bmr+actv requires.

But its a pretty hard diet... im not sure if you were talking about the specific keto diet here or just low carb, but

keto diet = about 10-15g carbs a day MAX
low carb = anything under 30/40% carbs

The keto diet is a pretty sadistic diet i have to say, i could only do it for a little over 2 weeks then i had to quit..

heres a calculator wich shows you how many calories fat etc you have to eat :

http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

But just to emphasize this again, its not about cutting calories... its about not eating carbs.

so I can do Keto..eat 1000 calories a day over maintenance and I will lose weight..really?

likitisplit

I just started trying Keto a few weeks ago. My husband has been using it off and on for a couple years and he has lost roughly 50 lbs. I'm not trying to lose weight, but rather build muscle. I don't know all the details of this diet...I'm still researching/learning. Basically, when you're in ketosis, your body burns fat for energy instead of carbs. This makes the amount of fat your body retains decrease. When you eat carbs, your body burns those first and stores the fat. You still want to keep your calories under control with keto, but you will want to eat more fat as that is what you are using for energy. Like I said, I'm pretty new to it so I'm definitely not an expert. I just know it seems to be working really well for my husband. I think it's important to remember that everybody is different as as metabolism etc, so what works really well for one person may not work at all for someone else.

Your body uses new fuel before tapping into reserves. It will burn ingested carbs and fat before burning stored fat. If you don't eat carbs, your body will burn the ingested fat before the stored fat.

This means, if you need 1800 calories and you eat
- 800 kcal of carbs and 800 kcal of fat, you will pull 200 kcals of energy from stored fat.
- 1600 kcals of fat, you will pull 200 kcals of energy from stored fat.
It's essentially the same strategy from a calorie percentage. If you are at a deficit, you are at a deficit and it doesn't matter where your calories aren't coming from - you'll use your stored reserves to make up the difference.

Where it gets different is the different impacts of fat, protein and carbs on your body. Protein and fat are needed for more than energy. They are important for repair and growth of lean mass and vitamin absorption. Carbs just supply energy.

If you increase your protein and aren't bulking, you'll need to reduce either your carbs or your fat. Keto is an extreme reduction of carbs.

h7463

Ketogenic diet is not about cutting on calories.... you gonna loose weight even by eating more calories then your bmr+actv requires.

But its a pretty hard diet... im not sure if you were talking about the specific keto diet here or just low carb, but

keto diet = about 10-15g carbs a day MAX
low carb = anything under 30/40% carbs

The keto diet is a pretty sadistic diet i have to say, i could only do it for a little over 2 weeks then i had to quit..

heres a calculator wich shows you how many calories fat etc you have to eat :

http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

But just to emphasize this again, its not about cutting calories... its about not eating carbs.

so I can do Keto..eat 1000 calories a day over maintenance and I will lose weight..really?

Well, this unlikely, unless you are training extremely heavy and burn those extra food calories right off. However, looking at the macro ratios, the protein percentage is higher, and the body needs extra energy to process protein, compared to carbs or fat. It's more like an extra hidden benefit, and if you're not going over your set calorie allowance, this will give you a few safely calories to manage your daily goal. But don't count on it.