If cutting cal= losing,y do people want ketosis?
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I know that, for myself at least, eating low carb greatly reduces sugar and junk food cravings. When I try to eat a low calorie, low fat diet I am ravenously hungry all of the time. When I eat Low carb.... I deal with it just fine. That's just how my body works.... yours may be different. I am just learning and sticking to what works for me.... I just know the low fat way has worked short term, but not long term for me.0
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Wow. I'm surprised by how few people really understand the ketogenic diet and how it works, especially those speaking from a place of authority against it. Here are the basics:
The body has two basic energy sources: (1) glucose and (2) ketones. You get glucose from eating carbs, breaking down glycogen (it's a polysaccharide of glucose used for quick storage in the liver and skeletal muscle) and gluconeogenesis (primarily performed by the liver when it creates glucose from fat and protein sources). In aerobic cellular respiration, you have a compound called Acetyl-CoA which is the beginning of the Krebs cycle which yields energy in the form of 34 ATP. You can get to Acetyl-CoA from either the breakdown of glucose (via glycolysis into pyruvate) or ketones. However, the body will prefer glucose first, which is why you need to restrict it if you want the body to use ketones as the primary energy source (ketones come from the break down of fat primarily -- both dietary and adipose tissue).
When you restrict your dietary carbs significantly, your body will be force to switch to ketones for the majority of its energy needs. So, your body breaks down your body fat to create the ketones for energy. This is what is usually referred to as being fat adapted or keto adapted and it often takes a week or a couple of weeks for most people. This is often what low carbers describe as the "carb flu" -- their body hasn't quite yet become fat adapted so, they can feel quite junky in the meantime with the low blood sugar/low energy. But, once they are, they feel good again because their body is getting its energy from ketones. Some glucose is necessary for brain and other essential functions -- but, luckily, the liver can create enough of this from non-carb/glucose sources (i.e. protein and fat). This is also why there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, whereas there are essential amino acids and essential fatty acids (i.e. we must eat them because we cannot produce them ourselves).
So, that's why people like ketogenic diets -- it burns body fat as a the source of fuel very effectively when in a caloric deficit and you don't feel hungry for the most part. However, as many others have pointed out, you still need to create a caloric deficit because if you're eating too much fat or protein (i.e. too many calories), your body won't access your adipose tissue/fat stores for the energy because there will always be enough from dietary protein and fat. Many people don't end up needing to count calories because when you're eating a high fat/moderate protein diet, it's very satiating and so they don't need to track because they generally feel full and don't naturally go over their calorie limits to create a deficit. Many just track carbs and find the the fat and protein takes care of itself. Some do need to track to make sure they're not overeating in total calories.
Now, other low carb diets are also favored, but not just for the ketogenic effect -- some restrict their carbs for other reasons, and may not actually be in ketosis. For example, I do because of insulin resistance. I'm fairly certain I don't drop the carbs low enough to be in ketosis regularly, if at all (I usually eat 50-80 g of total carbs per day). But, I do so because of the insulin resistance -- my body has an exaggerated insulin response to dietary carbs (especially high glycemic carbs like white flour, rice, sweets, etc.). So, I restrict the carbs so keep my blood sugar and insulin levels more level. This way, I don't get swamped with unnecessary insulin spikes which trigger a craving for carbs or hunger (and result in more glucose ultimately being stored as fat) due to my faulty glucose metabolism system.
Some people find that they fare much better on a carb restricted diet -- people with insulin resistance, PCOS, diabetes, some thyroid disorders, etc. I imagine people that don't have these issues but still feel better on a low carb diet may just not be diagnosed with them yet (like I was for years) or have a carb sensitivity issue. So when they restrict them, they just feel better over all. Others don't notice any difference in weight loss of how they feel and I imagine that's because they tolerate carbs fairly well so it's all the same to them (and, man, do I envy them!).
So, there are some very real reasons for both low carb and ketogenic diets, though they won't necessarily apply to you or everyone. If the info sounds compelling, try it out for yourself and see how you feel.0 -
I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working.
Before Keto/LCHF I was eating sugars breakfast cereals, sugary milk, heavy grain filled lunches, grain heavy pasta dinners. We ate very little veggies, except maybe a salad at lunch. My diet now is 4-8 CUPS of veggies a day, protein shakes, bacon, heavy whipping cream in place of milk, steak, pork, salami, peperoni, ect.
My body doesn't handle carbs right, I try to stay under 30 but if I go over, so long as under 50 not a big deal. I've lost 20lbs since the beginning of January, and now with the WL I'm adding in, I'm the strongest I've ever been.
It sounds like you went from an extremely high carb diet to an extremely low one. If you're eating 60-70% calories from carbs, it's very hard to get enough protein and fat. But that doesn't mean you have to go all the way down to 5% carbs. I've had a lot of success by following a 40c/30p/30f (roughly). High enough in carb that I don't have to worry about fruit, higher carb vegetables, the occasional ice cream or french fries, but low enough to make sure I focus on protein and fat, too.
With carbs, unless you have a medical condition that requires ketosis (and yes I know there are some), it doesn't have to be all or nothing.0 -
I have done a keto diet in the past (dr.bernsteins), and I lost 52 pounds in 3.5 months. I did their maintenance program and kept the weight off for about 3 years, but then I regained about half, which is where I'm stuck now.
I struggle with NOT going back to the keto diet, because I know it's not healthy (at least that particular diet isn't). But it's hard because its fast and it works. I want to loose some weight this time the "normal" way, but it's difficult mentally for me because it'll never be as fast as my keto diet.
I hope that helps you understand why some people do it.0 -
Sorry I meant to also add that for me personally having very limited choices is much easier for me to follow because I know exactly what I can and can't eat. Having all this freedom with choices is hard and I kind of suck at it0
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I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working.
Before Keto/LCHF I was eating sugars breakfast cereals, sugary milk, heavy grain filled lunches, grain heavy pasta dinners. We ate very little veggies, except maybe a salad at lunch. My diet now is 4-8 CUPS of veggies a day, protein shakes, bacon, heavy whipping cream in place of milk, steak, pork, salami, peperoni, ect.
My body doesn't handle carbs right, I try to stay under 30 but if I go over, so long as under 50 not a big deal. I've lost 20lbs since the beginning of January, and now with the WL I'm adding in, I'm the strongest I've ever been.
It sounds like you went from an extremely high carb diet to an extremely low one. If you're eating 60-70% calories from carbs, it's very hard to get enough protein and fat. But that doesn't mean you have to go all the way down to 5% carbs. I've had a lot of success by following a 40c/30p/30f (roughly). High enough in carb that I don't have to worry about fruit, higher carb vegetables, the occasional ice cream or french fries, but low enough to make sure I focus on protein and fat, too.
With carbs, unless you have a medical condition that requires ketosis (and yes I know there are some), it doesn't have to be all or nothing.
She has PCOS, which means that she likely has insulin resistance. People with PCOS are often recommended a low-carb diet to help with the insulin resistance. It's not usually about ketosis per se, but about minimizing the insulin spikes caused by the insulin resistance when eating carbs (especially high glycemic index carbs).0 -
I'm on ketogenic diet as I genuinely a, struggling with weight since the birth of my child 4 1/2 years ago.
I have a dodgy thyroid, hold the uk record for highest levothyroxine dose for a period of time, and no specialist has so far been successful in stabilising it!
It's getting better now, although its not fantastic. Ketogenic diets were orriginally designed for people with cancer, epilepsy and under active thyroids.
It has been the only real thing that has made me lose weight in the last 4 1/2 years. I feel awesome, not just in confidence, which I had absolutely nothing of this time last year, but also in general health. Not sure idiot is coz of the weight loss, or whether it's because this fits my needs better.
The main point though, it's restord my faith that I will get my old body back EVENTUALLY as this actually works!
Feel free to add me if you are looking for support with a diet like this, but to prewarn you, it takes a while to get used to it, it's not particularly easy when you start,0 -
Also there are so many more options than what some members have said for the ketogenic diet. There are many cheeses, not just one type, most fish, meat, eggs, nuts, many veg, many other dairy products, oils, you can even have dark choc in moderation and if it's over 85%0
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Come on, are you really saying people 10 000 years ago were not eating mainly bacon and cheddar cheese? No way.Again, the real Keto diet is pretty much zero Carbs. You are left with eating:
-Eggs
-Meat
-Fish
-Cheddar Cheese
and thats pretty much it. All the carbs have to come from veggies, wich you have to be eating to on mass since you are not taking in any vitamins with that diet, the stuff you are left to eat is very low in vitamins, and its a very one sided nutrition plan.
Also what people just mentioned is very true, you have to drink ALOT of water, im talking about 3-4 liters a day.
Im abit surprised that there is so less knowledge about how the Keto diet works. It doesnt work because you eat less, it works because your Body, specially your brain needs Carbohydrates to function properly.
If your body doesnt have those Carbohydrates anymore (eg. how Humans ate 10.000bc) it will start to produce body own carbohydrates in the Liver.
This is because in the evolution of man, agriculture is a very new thing. The number of generations of Homo Sapiens that have eaten Carbohydrates on a daily basis is very very small, compared to the number of humans that didnt know about cultivation and simply went hunting for food ( eg. eating mostly meat)
Your body does not need Carbohydrates, there is no health risk involved if you are not eating them.
In short, your body is gonna start burning fat super SUPER fast because there are no Carbs to burn. Just use that calculator i posted if you wanna try it out yourself. Like i said, its the most effective way of loosing weight there is, yet the most hardcore i know.. its super super difficult to maintain.
Also in general, its not about loosing weight, its about having a healthy lifesteal, and i would encourage anyone who wanna loose weight to start doing sports daily and eating enough food. The reason most of you are overweight is because a sedentary lifestyle. Just stop being lazy and change that and you will loose weight much faster.
LOL. Yes. People did eat carbs 10,000 BC. They ate fruit and nuts and berries and vegetables and shoots and ferns and inner tree bark and even grasses/grain.
They were mainly eating meat yes. Cheddar cheese confuses me alittle bit, since thats a product of cows. You cant milk wild cows. You have to cultivate.
This cultivation started about 12.000BC. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_agriculture_and_food_technology
Before that time humans have not eaten carbs, in nature they are very very rare. thats why we like sugar. because naturally its a rare substance, as is salt.
As you may know ( wich im not sure you are), our species exists since about 200.000 years, that means that only in the last 14,000 years we have a steady ressource of carbohydrates, before that most of the food came from hunting animals or fishing, so our organism is used to be fueled solely by protein and fat.
And according to the caloric deficit. You dont need that because once in Keto you burn more fat then you can take in, thats why the "deficit" you may think you need is gotta be way lower then when youre on a normal diet. thats why you dont even need any deficit to loose weight.0 -
Come on, are you really saying people 10 000 years ago were not eating mainly bacon and cheddar cheese? No way.Again, the real Keto diet is pretty much zero Carbs. You are left with eating:
-Eggs
-Meat
-Fish
-Cheddar Cheese
and thats pretty much it. All the carbs have to come from veggies, wich you have to be eating to on mass since you are not taking in any vitamins with that diet, the stuff you are left to eat is very low in vitamins, and its a very one sided nutrition plan.
Also what people just mentioned is very true, you have to drink ALOT of water, im talking about 3-4 liters a day.
Im abit surprised that there is so less knowledge about how the Keto diet works. It doesnt work because you eat less, it works because your Body, specially your brain needs Carbohydrates to function properly.
If your body doesnt have those Carbohydrates anymore (eg. how Humans ate 10.000bc) it will start to produce body own carbohydrates in the Liver.
This is because in the evolution of man, agriculture is a very new thing. The number of generations of Homo Sapiens that have eaten Carbohydrates on a daily basis is very very small, compared to the number of humans that didnt know about cultivation and simply went hunting for food ( eg. eating mostly meat)
Your body does not need Carbohydrates, there is no health risk involved if you are not eating them.
In short, your body is gonna start burning fat super SUPER fast because there are no Carbs to burn. Just use that calculator i posted if you wanna try it out yourself. Like i said, its the most effective way of loosing weight there is, yet the most hardcore i know.. its super super difficult to maintain.
Also in general, its not about loosing weight, its about having a healthy lifesteal, and i would encourage anyone who wanna loose weight to start doing sports daily and eating enough food. The reason most of you are overweight is because a sedentary lifestyle. Just stop being lazy and change that and you will loose weight much faster.
LOL. Yes. People did eat carbs 10,000 BC. They ate fruit and nuts and berries and vegetables and shoots and ferns and inner tree bark and even grasses/grain.
And according to the caloric deficit. You dont need that because once in Keto you burn more fat then you can take in, thats why the "deficit" you may think you need is gotta be way lower then when youre on a normal diet. thats why you dont even need any deficit to loose weight.
wait, so I can eat 1000 calories a day over maintenance and lose weight at the same time??0 -
I am not on any type of low carb diet, but my days just work out to me eating around 100-120 carbs per day on average. I have found that I snack much less between meals when I eat more fat and remain in a calorie deficit (obviously). I still love pasta, rice, bread, etc., and I still eat them. I just don't find them to be particularly filling.0
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I know that for me it is because I want to know that my fast is working.0
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I just started trying Keto a few weeks ago. My husband has been using it off and on for a couple years and he has lost roughly 50 lbs. I'm not trying to lose weight, but rather build muscle. I don't know all the details of this diet...I'm still researching/learning. Basically, when you're in ketosis, your body burns fat for energy instead of carbs. This makes the amount of fat your body retains decrease. When you eat carbs, your body burns those first and stores the fat. You still want to keep your calories under control with keto, but you will want to eat more fat as that is what you are using for energy. Like I said, I'm pretty new to it so I'm definitely not an expert. I just know it seems to be working really well for my husband. I think it's important to remember that everybody is different as as metabolism etc, so what works really well for one person may not work at all for someone else.
You are better off eating plenty of carbs when building muscle.0 -
You don't need to cut calories on Keto, within reason of course. If you forced 5000 cals of food down your throat every day you would gain no matter what. Most people on Keto naturally eat less anyway because of the satiating effect of a high fat diet. I often struggle to fit 1800 or so calories into my diet because I'm just not hungry.
The beauty of Keto is that you can eat extra and not gain the weight. There are days like yesterday when I was 500 calories over my goal. I woke up 200g lighter today
Besides, weight loss isn't the only concern for going Keto. Protection from afflictions caused by low fat/high carb eating like Diabetes, Heart Disease, Alzheimers, Strokes, Obesity and the general feeling of well being are things that make high fat/low carb eating a sensible way of increasing your quality of life.
I love the fact that I can eat Steak, Eggs and fried tomatoes all cooked in butter for breakfast, and a coffee made with cream (yum!) and not feel guilty about it.
Strawberries and Cream is health food to me! 0 -
I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working.
Before Keto/LCHF I was eating sugars breakfast cereals, sugary milk, heavy grain filled lunches, grain heavy pasta dinners. We ate very little veggies, except maybe a salad at lunch. My diet now is 4-8 CUPS of veggies a day, protein shakes, bacon, heavy whipping cream in place of milk, steak, pork, salami, peperoni, ect.
My body doesn't handle carbs right, I try to stay under 30 but if I go over, so long as under 50 not a big deal. I've lost 20lbs since the beginning of January, and now with the WL I'm adding in, I'm the strongest I've ever been.
I have no doubt you feel better and started losing weight. Your diet previously was not only carb heavy but high in calories because of your carb choices. Maybe if you ate carbs like fruit and vegies which are more nutrient dense but less calories you would have lost weight. When you changed to keto/LCHF you ditched those carb heavy foods and started eating better and in a calorie deficit.0 -
So, before you were on a sugary junk food based diet, now you added large amounts of veggies, and you are losing because this is ketosis? ooookay....I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working.
Before Keto/LCHF I was eating sugars breakfast cereals, sugary milk, heavy grain filled lunches, grain heavy pasta dinners. We ate very little veggies, except maybe a salad at lunch. My diet now is 4-8 CUPS of veggies a day, protein shakes, bacon, heavy whipping cream in place of milk, steak, pork, salami, peperoni, ect.
My body doesn't handle carbs right, I try to stay under 30 but if I go over, so long as under 50 not a big deal. I've lost 20lbs since the beginning of January, and now with the WL I'm adding in, I'm the strongest I've ever been.
Just saw this after my reply. My thoughts exactly!0 -
I know that, for myself at least, eating low carb greatly reduces sugar and junk food cravings. When I try to eat a low calorie, low fat diet I am ravenously hungry all of the time. When I eat Low carb.... I deal with it just fine. That's just how my body works.... yours may be different. I am just learning and sticking to what works for me.... I just know the low fat way has worked short term, but not long term for me.
Maybe your low fat, low calorie diet needs revamping to higher protein - did you get enough protein when you did the low fat, lower calorie diet?0 -
I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working.
Before Keto/LCHF I was eating sugars breakfast cereals, sugary milk, heavy grain filled lunches, grain heavy pasta dinners. We ate very little veggies, except maybe a salad at lunch. My diet now is 4-8 CUPS of veggies a day, protein shakes, bacon, heavy whipping cream in place of milk, steak, pork, salami, peperoni, ect.
My body doesn't handle carbs right, I try to stay under 30 but if I go over, so long as under 50 not a big deal. I've lost 20lbs since the beginning of January, and now with the WL I'm adding in, I'm the strongest I've ever been.
I have no doubt you feel better and started losing weight. Your diet previously was not only carb heavy but high in calories because of your carb choices. Maybe if you ate carbs like fruit and vegies which are more nutrient dense but less calories you would have lost weight. When you changed to keto/LCHF you ditched those carb heavy foods and started eating better and in a calorie deficit.
What makes you think it was high calories? From what she wrote about "calories in -calories out = losing" not working for her would seem to imply that she wasn't eating high calorie -- that she was maintaining a deficit and it didn't work.0 -
I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working.
Before Keto/LCHF I was eating sugars breakfast cereals, sugary milk, heavy grain filled lunches, grain heavy pasta dinners. We ate very little veggies, except maybe a salad at lunch. My diet now is 4-8 CUPS of veggies a day, protein shakes, bacon, heavy whipping cream in place of milk, steak, pork, salami, peperoni, ect.
My body doesn't handle carbs right, I try to stay under 30 but if I go over, so long as under 50 not a big deal. I've lost 20lbs since the beginning of January, and now with the WL I'm adding in, I'm the strongest I've ever been.
I have no doubt you feel better and started losing weight. Your diet previously was not only carb heavy but high in calories because of your carb choices. Maybe if you ate carbs like fruit and vegies which are more nutrient dense but less calories you would have lost weight. When you changed to keto/LCHF you ditched those carb heavy foods and started eating better and in a calorie deficit.
What makes you think it was high calories? From what she wrote about "calories in -calories out = losing" not working for her would seem to imply that she wasn't eating high calorie -- that she was maintaining a deficit and it didn't work.
If she maintained a deficit she would have lost some weight.0 -
You don't need to cut calories on Keto, within reason of course. If you forced 5000 cals of food down your throat every day you would gain no matter what. Most people on Keto naturally eat less anyway because of the satiating effect of a high fat diet. I often struggle to fit 1800 or so calories into my diet because I'm just not hungry.
The beauty of Keto is that you can eat extra and not gain the weight. There are days like yesterday when I was 500 calories over my goal. I woke up 200g lighter today
Besides, weight loss isn't the only concern for going Keto. Protection from afflictions caused by low fat/high carb eating like Diabetes, Heart Disease, Alzheimers, Strokes, Obesity and the general feeling of well being are things that make high fat/low carb eating a sensible way of increasing your quality of life.
I love the fact that I can eat Steak, Eggs and fried tomatoes all cooked in butter for breakfast, and a coffee made with cream (yum!) and not feel guilty about it.
Strawberries and Cream is health food to me!
500 over goal, or 500 over maintenance..? And if you were 500 over one day that is not enough to gain if you are in a deficit the rest of the week…
I would be curious to see the studies on the Keto protection from afflictions claim…0
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