If cutting cal= losing,y do people want ketosis?
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So, before you were on a sugary junk food based diet, now you added large amounts of veggies, and you are losing because this is ketosis? ooookay....I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working.
Before Keto/LCHF I was eating sugars breakfast cereals, sugary milk, heavy grain filled lunches, grain heavy pasta dinners. We ate very little veggies, except maybe a salad at lunch. My diet now is 4-8 CUPS of veggies a day, protein shakes, bacon, heavy whipping cream in place of milk, steak, pork, salami, peperoni, ect.
My body doesn't handle carbs right, I try to stay under 30 but if I go over, so long as under 50 not a big deal. I've lost 20lbs since the beginning of January, and now with the WL I'm adding in, I'm the strongest I've ever been.
Just saw this after my reply. My thoughts exactly!
I third this….0 -
You don't need to cut calories on Keto, within reason of course. If you forced 5000 cals of food down your throat every day you would gain no matter what. Most people on Keto naturally eat less anyway because of the satiating effect of a high fat diet. I often struggle to fit 1800 or so calories into my diet because I'm just not hungry.
The beauty of Keto is that you can eat extra and not gain the weight. There are days like yesterday when I was 500 calories over my goal. I woke up 200g lighter today
Besides, weight loss isn't the only concern for going Keto. Protection from afflictions caused by low fat/high carb eating like Diabetes, Heart Disease, Alzheimers, Strokes, Obesity and the general feeling of well being are things that make high fat/low carb eating a sensible way of increasing your quality of life.
I love the fact that I can eat Steak, Eggs and fried tomatoes all cooked in butter for breakfast, and a coffee made with cream (yum!) and not feel guilty about it.
Strawberries and Cream is health food to me!
500 over goal, or 500 over maintenance..? And if you were 500 over one day that is not enough to gain if you are in a deficit the rest of the week…
I would be curious to see the studies on the Keto protection from afflictions claim…
One of my friends and I are arguing about this on Facebook. I can send you the stuff he's sending me. He also brings up Tim Noakes periodically. Love Dr Noakes research on running. Don't find his writings in nutrition as compelling, but that might just be that I don't care as much.0 -
You don't need to cut calories on Keto, within reason of course. If you forced 5000 cals of food down your throat every day you would gain no matter what. Most people on Keto naturally eat less anyway because of the satiating effect of a high fat diet. I often struggle to fit 1800 or so calories into my diet because I'm just not hungry.
The beauty of Keto is that you can eat extra and not gain the weight. There are days like yesterday when I was 500 calories over my goal. I woke up 200g lighter today
Besides, weight loss isn't the only concern for going Keto. Protection from afflictions caused by low fat/high carb eating like Diabetes, Heart Disease, Alzheimers, Strokes, Obesity and the general feeling of well being are things that make high fat/low carb eating a sensible way of increasing your quality of life.
I love the fact that I can eat Steak, Eggs and fried tomatoes all cooked in butter for breakfast, and a coffee made with cream (yum!) and not feel guilty about it.
Strawberries and Cream is health food to me!
500 over goal, or 500 over maintenance..? And if you were 500 over one day that is not enough to gain if you are in a deficit the rest of the week…
I would be curious to see the studies on the Keto protection from afflictions claim…
One of my friends and I are arguing about this on Facebook. I can send you the stuff he's sending me. He also brings up Tim Noakes periodically. Love Dr Noakes research on running. Don't find his writings in nutrition as compelling, but that might just be that I don't care as much.
yes, please post them...0 -
You don't need to cut calories on Keto, within reason of course. If you forced 5000 cals of food down your throat every day you would gain no matter what. Most people on Keto naturally eat less anyway because of the satiating effect of a high fat diet. I often struggle to fit 1800 or so calories into my diet because I'm just not hungry.
The beauty of Keto is that you can eat extra and not gain the weight. There are days like yesterday when I was 500 calories over my goal. I woke up 200g lighter today
Besides, weight loss isn't the only concern for going Keto. Protection from afflictions caused by low fat/high carb eating like Diabetes, Heart Disease, Alzheimers, Strokes, Obesity and the general feeling of well being are things that make high fat/low carb eating a sensible way of increasing your quality of life.
I love the fact that I can eat Steak, Eggs and fried tomatoes all cooked in butter for breakfast, and a coffee made with cream (yum!) and not feel guilty about it.
Strawberries and Cream is health food to me!
I ate all that stuff last week. Didn't feel guilty. Didn't gain weight (even though I'm SUPPOSED to be bulking) even though I was 800 calories over my calorie allotment. + I ate rice and pasta and oatmeal with brown sugar. Didn't feel guilty about that either.
I maintained for six months with pretty much the same diet and without tracking.0 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo
- read the case clearly in Volek, Phinney, Taubes and others (those sources can lead you to many others)
- www.dietdoctor.com is a nice web starting point.
There was another post, but I can't find it among the buzzfeed reposts0 -
Come on, are you really saying people 10 000 years ago were not eating mainly bacon and cheddar cheese? No way.Again, the real Keto diet is pretty much zero Carbs. You are left with eating:
-Eggs
-Meat
-Fish
-Cheddar Cheese
and thats pretty much it. All the carbs have to come from veggies, wich you have to be eating to on mass since you are not taking in any vitamins with that diet, the stuff you are left to eat is very low in vitamins, and its a very one sided nutrition plan.
Also what people just mentioned is very true, you have to drink ALOT of water, im talking about 3-4 liters a day.
Im abit surprised that there is so less knowledge about how the Keto diet works. It doesnt work because you eat less, it works because your Body, specially your brain needs Carbohydrates to function properly.
If your body doesnt have those Carbohydrates anymore (eg. how Humans ate 10.000bc) it will start to produce body own carbohydrates in the Liver.
This is because in the evolution of man, agriculture is a very new thing. The number of generations of Homo Sapiens that have eaten Carbohydrates on a daily basis is very very small, compared to the number of humans that didnt know about cultivation and simply went hunting for food ( eg. eating mostly meat)
Your body does not need Carbohydrates, there is no health risk involved if you are not eating them.
In short, your body is gonna start burning fat super SUPER fast because there are no Carbs to burn. Just use that calculator i posted if you wanna try it out yourself. Like i said, its the most effective way of loosing weight there is, yet the most hardcore i know.. its super super difficult to maintain.
Also in general, its not about loosing weight, its about having a healthy lifesteal, and i would encourage anyone who wanna loose weight to start doing sports daily and eating enough food. The reason most of you are overweight is because a sedentary lifestyle. Just stop being lazy and change that and you will loose weight much faster.
LOL. Yes. People did eat carbs 10,000 BC. They ate fruit and nuts and berries and vegetables and shoots and ferns and inner tree bark and even grasses/grain.
They were mainly eating meat yes. Cheddar cheese confuses me alittle bit, since thats a product of cows. You cant milk wild cows. You have to cultivate.
This cultivation started about 12.000BC. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_agriculture_and_food_technology
Before that time humans have not eaten carbs, in nature they are very very rare. thats why we like sugar. because naturally its a rare substance, as is salt.
As you may know ( wich im not sure you are), our species exists since about 200.000 years, that means that only in the last 14,000 years we have a steady ressource of carbohydrates, before that most of the food came from hunting animals or fishing, so our organism is used to be fueled solely by protein and fat.
And according to the caloric deficit. You dont need that because once in Keto you burn more fat then you can take in, thats why the "deficit" you may think you need is gotta be way lower then when youre on a normal diet. thats why you dont even need any deficit to loose weight.
I think you have us confused with another species. We are great apes. Great apes aren't carnivores. They walk around all day and eat fruits, nuts, berries, vegetation, shoots, seeds, etc. we ate significant amount of carbs before we branched off from lemurs.0 -
The human diet changed dramatically within the last 13.000 years, wich was my point. Also, you should always eat over your maintance, since thats the calories needed when you would be NOT MOVING. You shouldnt be doing that, again. If you wanna loose weight, you have to start moving and doing sports. If you not into that, a calorie deficit wont fix your problems.0
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The human diet changed dramatically within the last 13.000 years, wich was my point. Also, you should always eat over your maintance, since thats the calories needed when you would be NOT MOVING. You shouldnt be doing that, again. If you wanna loose weight, you have to start moving and doing sports. If you not into that, a calorie deficit wont fix your problems.
lol what …I think you need to go back to the drawing board. ..0 -
The human diet changed dramatically within the last 13.000 years, wich was my point. Also, you should always eat over your maintance, since thats the calories needed when you would be NOT MOVING. You shouldnt be doing that, again. If you wanna loose weight, you have to start moving and doing sports. If you not into that, a calorie deficit wont fix your problems.
lol what …I think you need to go back to the drawing board. ..
We could cut this thread short by all posting our IQs0 -
The human diet changed dramatically within the last 13.000 years, wich was my point. Also, you should always eat over your maintance, since thats the calories needed when you would be NOT MOVING. You shouldnt be doing that, again. If you wanna loose weight, you have to start moving and doing sports. If you not into that, a calorie deficit wont fix your problems.
I want you to know that this caused me pain. Literal pain.0 -
The human diet changed dramatically within the last 13.000 years, wich was my point. Also, you should always eat over your maintance, since thats the calories needed when you would be NOT MOVING. You shouldnt be doing that, again. If you wanna loose weight, you have to start moving and doing sports. If you not into that, a calorie deficit wont fix your problems.
I used to think keto was just a way of creating a calorie deficit that worked well with some people's lifestyles...
after reading this, I think it might actually make you dumber0 -
Yes, the human diet changed with the advent of agriculture. How dramatic the impact was is up for debate. Our niche is a pretty wide one and one that would be easily (and has) adapted to the foods that became more common at that time. Evidence shows that we were already eating them.The human diet changed dramatically within the last 13.000 years, wich was my point.Also, you should always eat over your maintance, since thats the calories needed when you would be NOT MOVING.
I think you are confusing BMR (base metabolic rate) and maintenance (the number of calories required to maintain weight at a certain level)You shouldnt be doing that, again. If you wanna loose weight, you have to start moving and doing sports. If you not into that, a calorie deficit wont fix your problems.
While I agree that an active lifestyle is the foundation of good health, maintaining a calorie deficit is the only way to convince your body to consume it's stored energy (fat).
I, personally, am halfway through an ill-advised bulk, so losing weight would solve none of my problems.0 -
They were mainly eating meat yes. Cheddar cheese confuses me alittle bit, since thats a product of cows. You cant milk wild cows. You have to cultivate.
This cultivation started about 12.000BC. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_agriculture_and_food_technology
Before that time humans have not eaten carbs, in nature they are very very rare. thats why we like sugar. because naturally its a rare substance, as is salt.
As you may know ( wich im not sure you are), our species exists since about 200.000 years, that means that only in the last 14,000 years we have a steady ressource of carbohydrates, before that most of the food came from hunting animals or fishing, so our organism is used to be fueled solely by protein and fat.
And according to the caloric deficit. You dont need that because once in Keto you burn more fat then you can take in, thats why the "deficit" you may think you need is gotta be way lower then when youre on a normal diet. thats why you dont even need any deficit to loose weight.
And of course, life expectancy has been dropping ever since. From like a 1,000 years to a mere 75 or so, right? It must be those darn cards!0 -
I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working.
Before Keto/LCHF I was eating sugars breakfast cereals, sugary milk, heavy grain filled lunches, grain heavy pasta dinners. We ate very little veggies, except maybe a salad at lunch. My diet now is 4-8 CUPS of veggies a day, protein shakes, bacon, heavy whipping cream in place of milk, steak, pork, salami, peperoni, ect.
My body doesn't handle carbs right, I try to stay under 30 but if I go over, so long as under 50 not a big deal. I've lost 20lbs since the beginning of January, and now with the WL I'm adding in, I'm the strongest I've ever been.
I have no doubt you feel better and started losing weight. Your diet previously was not only carb heavy but high in calories because of your carb choices. Maybe if you ate carbs like fruit and vegies which are more nutrient dense but less calories you would have lost weight. When you changed to keto/LCHF you ditched those carb heavy foods and started eating better and in a calorie deficit.
What makes you think it was high calories? From what she wrote about "calories in -calories out = losing" not working for her would seem to imply that she wasn't eating high calorie -- that she was maintaining a deficit and it didn't work.
If she maintained a deficit she would have lost some weight.
Well, I suppose that's all very circular and contradicts what she said.
For people with abnormal metabolisms, the assumptions for calculations are not the same. Such people can be eating at a deficit (or what should be a deficit based on BMR and exercise calculations) and not lose weight because they don't metabolize things the same way. I'm a perfect example of that. I was eating 700+ daily caloric deficit and not really losing (2.2 lbs over 3 months -- hard to say if that was even a true loss given water fluctuations). Lo and behold, my doc discovers that I have both a thyroid issue and insulin resistance. I get the proper medication and boom start losing just as my deficits would indicate doing the EXACT same things. She has PCOS, which usually comes with insulin resistance. Probably a similar scenario.0 -
It's very difficult, actually. To build muscle you need to have a surplus of calories, enough protein for muscle tissue repair, AND you need insulin to drive amino acids into our muscles. Since both carbohydrate and protein are insulinogenic - but carbohydrate more-so - eating low-carb while trying to build muscle is counter-productive, but not impossible.I would question going almost zero carb and trying to build muscles at the same time, as that sounds counter productive to me …but I am sure some have accomplished it...
As a diabetic I have no choice if I want to maintain good glycemic control. Non-diabetics trying to gain muscle want to have more carbohydrate than I do, for sure. I work my *kitten* off 6 days a week, 52 weeks a year for a measly 2lbs of muscle gain per year.0 -
FYI, the modern diet is way less carb-oriented than even that of 100 years ago. I wonder how many people ate some form of dead beast in all three meals without realizing what an oddity that is from a historical point of view.They were mainly eating meat yes. Cheddar cheese confuses me alittle bit, since thats a product of cows. You cant milk wild cows. You have to cultivate.
This cultivation started about 12.000BC. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_agriculture_and_food_technology
Before that time humans have not eaten carbs, in nature they are very very rare. thats why we like sugar. because naturally its a rare substance, as is salt.0 -
The VLCKD (very low-carb ketogenic diet) serves a few main purposes:Sorry, even though I responded to your question, I'm not the one who made the statement that you are referring to. Generally, there is no sugar coating it, weight loss is a matter of calorie deficit, regardless of where the calories come from. Keto diets are targeted diets for body fat loss. Often, overall weight loss is not desired, because it would indicate a loss of lean muscle mass.
#1
It is the best diet overall for glycemic control - which means it's the best diet for those morbidly obese people with metabolic-syndrome or diabetes in terms of overall health markers, as well as for anyone else with an impaired glucose metabolism - such as people with PCOS or Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
#2
Once keto-adapted it does help individuals burn more bodyfat (instead of bodyfat and lean-tissue) because ketogenic diets are proven in multiple studies to be protein/muscle-sparing. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/
#3
Those needing to lower triglycerides and increase HDL-C find the most-success on a very-low carb diet, although it CAN increase total serum cholesterol in some individuals. However, usually an increase in total serum cholesterol is offset by an improvement in the HDL/LDL-C ratio, as well as an improvement in the types of LDL particles present when advanced lipid testing is performed.
Those suggesting an overall caloric deficit is required to lose weight are absolutely correct. The ideas you can eat as much as you want on keto and lose weight are 1) anecdotal and 2) not shown to be repeatable in a laboratory environment. Those who truly "eat only when hungry" and "eat until full" usually end up in a deficit. However those with emotional/psychological reasons for over-eating will still over-eat regardless of which diet they choose.1 -
This is untrue.Again, the real Keto diet is pretty much zero Carbs. You are left with eating:
-Eggs
-Meat
-Fish
-Cheddar Cheese
and thats pretty much it. All the carbs have to come from veggies, wich you have to be eating to on mass since you are not taking in any vitamins with that diet, the stuff you are left to eat is very low in vitamins, and its a very one sided nutrition plan.
I maintain ketosis at 100g of carbohydrate per day easily. I can maintain ketosis/keto-adaptation on 150g a day when exercising heavily. Those who don't exercise generally maintain at < 50g/day.
I eat 6-8 cups of salad (lettuce, kale, spinach, etc.) many days (15g of carbohydrate or less), as much as 1/2lb of broccoli in a go (8g of carbohydrate), berries, fruit and more.
The idea it's all meat, eggs cheese and fish with no vitamins to speak of is not only inaccurate, it's downright ignorant.0 -
They were mainly eating meat yes. Cheddar cheese confuses me alittle bit, since thats a product of cows. You cant milk wild cows. You have to cultivate.
This cultivation started about 12.000BC. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_agriculture_and_food_technology
Before that time humans have not eaten carbs, in nature they are very very rare. thats why we like sugar. because naturally its a rare substance, as is salt.
As you may know ( wich im not sure you are), our species exists since about 200.000 years, that means that only in the last 14,000 years we have a steady ressource of carbohydrates, before that most of the food came from hunting animals or fishing, so our organism is used to be fueled solely by protein and fat.
And according to the caloric deficit. You dont need that because once in Keto you burn more fat then you can take in, thats why the "deficit" you may think you need is gotta be way lower then when youre on a normal diet. thats why you dont even need any deficit to loose weight.
And of course, life expectancy has been dropping ever since. From like a 1,000 years to a mere 75 or so, right? It must be those darn cards!
^this! Before you know it we won't make it to puberty and then *poof!* no more human race. Blame agriculture.0 -
I was reading this to learn about ketosis. There are people just arguing back and forth, trying to be right and prove a point. People, say what you want to and move on. You take each comment with a grain of salt and don't believe all you read anyway. Thanks to those of you trying to stay on track and share whet you did.0
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