If cutting cal= losing,y do people want ketosis?

MelRC117

For most people, because doing something more exotic and hard to follow (not talking specifically about ketosis, this applies IMHO to paleo, very low fat or whatever else that is not that balanced or natural) it makes you feel more special. And since you are trying harder to follow the rules, your mind tells you that it hsould be also more effective. A psychologist would probably be able to explain why, but humans believe that unpleasant = effective
And for some people, like my brother in law, it is putting a label on habits they already have. If he just comes out and say he loves fatty meats and would not touch a fruit, he sounds like an idiot. If he labels this as Atkins diet, he stll does what he always did, but now he has a name for this, so all of a sudden it has become "a diet", vs "crappy eating habits".And no, I do not think this is what most low carb dieters do, or that it cannot be healthy in general, but for some people, it is not really a diet plan, it is just a label.

Don't speak for "most people". I don't get what you mean by exotic or hard to follow. It's pretty easy to me, and it takes just as much effort counting carbs as it does to count calories. I don't find it unpleasant. I suggest you don't speak to something you obviously have ZERO experience in except for your BIL who is not representative of "most" people.

MelRC117

Obviously there are many people on here commenting about PCOS and insulin resistance saying, just eat low calorie and you'll still lose! Stop making statements if you don't have knowledge about it.

Who is doing that?

Uh, several.

caminoslo

Low fat candy is there for you to gain weight, Those carbs I listed above are there for you to gain, Sugar is there for you to gain weight even with exercise as I discovered as I'd eat my favorite gummy bears while going on a hike for an hour in hills around my home..

I eat over 100g of sugar most days and haven't gained any weight (lost weight, even?). I eat rice and bread and tortillas (couple times a week. Sometimes more than one of those in a day) and again...not fat.

Now maybe I'm a special snowflake (doubt it.) but I'm gonna go ahead and say that your thoughts may be a little...flawed.

Are your sugars from junk or fruit? Do you exercise a lot?

likitisplit

Obviously there are many people on here commenting about PCOS and insulin resistance saying, just eat low calorie and you'll still lose! Stop making statements if you don't have knowledge about it.

Who is doing that?

Uh, several.

Who?

There are several people who have stated that Ketosis works BECAUSE it can be an effective way to be low calorie, but I have yet to read that somebody with PCOS, thyroid or diabetes would be better off simply by cutting calories.

Achrya

Low fat candy is there for you to gain weight, Those carbs I listed above are there for you to gain, Sugar is there for you to gain weight even with exercise as I discovered as I'd eat my favorite gummy bears while going on a hike for an hour in hills around my home..

I eat over 100g of sugar most days and haven't gained any weight (lost weight, even?). I eat rice and bread and tortillas (couple times a week. Sometimes more than one of those in a day) and again...not fat.

Now maybe I'm a special snowflake (doubt it.) but I'm gonna go ahead and say that your thoughts may be a little...flawed.

Are your sugars from junk or fruit? Do you exercise a lot?

I don't eat fruit. And I do not workout what anyone would consider 'a lot'. I'd say 4 hours a week has been my max for the past couple months.

MelRC117

Obviously there are many people on here commenting about PCOS and insulin resistance saying, just eat low calorie and you'll still lose! Stop making statements if you don't have knowledge about it.

Who is doing that?

Uh, several.

Who?

There are several people who have stated that Ketosis works BECAUSE it can be an effective way to be low calorie, but I have yet to read that somebody with PCOS, thyroid or diabetes would be better off simply by cutting calories.

You apparently aren't reading the same posts I am by susie cue and some other poster.

MelRC117

Carbs(bread,rice,tortillas) these sorts of carbs are for people who plan on exercising all the time.

Without Those carbs or sugar is for people who dont want to exercise like myself

Low fat candy is there for you to gain weight, Those carbs I listed above are there for you to gain, Sugar is there for you to gain weight even with exercise as I discovered as I'd eat my favorite gummy bears while going on a hike for an hour in hills around my home..

Homemade desserts I will make, and im talking YOu make the pudding, the mergeuigne, the crust not insta desserts at the dollars store,. Home made desserts are filling and sometimes I dont esersize but I feel satisfied I might end up not losing but going into maintnance when I do that.
I see it like this when im hungry im hungry I can either do a quick fix by eating packed stuff Or I can take the time to cook.

How is low fat candy there for you to gain weight? I cannot believe that sugar is different in a packaged Snicker bar than a homemade pie. There is no special sugar for packaged food or homemade foods. Sugar is sugar. Do you eat fruit? Does that have magic sugar there, too.

Of course you can gain weight even if you exercise. If you eat 800 calories in gummy bears, and in that same amount of time you only burn 500 calories, that would mean a surplus of calories (obviously there is more time in the day to burn that surplus, but assuming you would also eat something besides gummy bears).

scubasuenc

I have PCOS and Type 2 Diabetes. While I do watch my carbs, I do not follow a ketogenic diet. I have done that in the past and my biggest problem is that if you 'mess up' and get out of ketosis it can take days to get back in again. When I ate too many carbs and got out of ketosis (per the little sticks) I would binge on carbs for a few days before I began the process of getting back in ketosis. I found this to be mentally exhausting and unhealthy.

I prefer to focus on getting enough protein in my diet and monitor my carbs while working with a calorie deficit. It allows me the flexibility to eat a variety of foods and not feel deprived. This strategy has helped me lose 68 lbs so far. When I started my diabetes required insulin to control my blood sugar, it no longer does.

I'm not against a ketogenic diet, it just isn't the right thing for me. If it works for you, go for it.

likitisplit

Obviously there are many people on here commenting about PCOS and insulin resistance saying, just eat low calorie and you'll still lose! Stop making statements if you don't have knowledge about it.

Who is doing that?

Uh, several.

Who?

There are several people who have stated that Ketosis works BECAUSE it can be an effective way to be low calorie, but I have yet to read that somebody with PCOS, thyroid or diabetes would be better off simply by cutting calories.

You apparently aren't reading the same posts I am by susie cue and some other poster.

You mean where she says...

I have no doubt you feel better and started losing weight. Your diet previously was not only carb heavy but high in calories because of your carb choices. Maybe if you ate carbs like fruit and vegies which are more nutrient dense but less calories you would have lost weight. When you changed to keto/LCHF you ditched those carb heavy foods and started eating better and in a calorie deficit.

I don't read that as saying that "PCOS doesn't change how your body processes carbs." It's saying that, whether you have PCOS or not, changing your diet from 2800 calories a day to 1400 calories a day (with more micronutrients) is going to make a difference in your weight and how you feel.

If the poster had changed to a lower calorie diet and still didn't see results before eliminating carbs, it would be clearer evidence that ketosis has benefits beyond a simple reduction in calories. Alternatively, if the poster had tried a high calorie, low carb diet and saw results, that would also be more compelling.

lindsey1979

For the record, 15 people responded positively about Ketosis/low carb

- 5 mentioned that it is possible to eat more calories in ketosis
- 6 mentioned satiation
- 2 mentioned health conditions
- 2 mentioned other benefits

ETA - 16 people
- 6 mentioned more calories as a factor.

5? Which 5? I went back and only saw the two posters (though there were several posts from Lowfyr in particular)?

lindsey1979

Obviously there are many people on here commenting about PCOS and insulin resistance saying, just eat low calorie and you'll still lose! Stop making statements if you don't have knowledge about it.

Who is doing that?

Uh, several.

Who?

There are several people who have stated that Ketosis works BECAUSE it can be an effective way to be low calorie, but I have yet to read that somebody with PCOS, thyroid or diabetes would be better off simply by cutting calories.

You apparently aren't reading the same posts I am by susie cue and some other poster.

You mean where she says...

I have no doubt you feel better and started losing weight. Your diet previously was not only carb heavy but high in calories because of your carb choices. Maybe if you ate carbs like fruit and vegies which are more nutrient dense but less calories you would have lost weight. When you changed to keto/LCHF you ditched those carb heavy foods and started eating better and in a calorie deficit.

I don't read that as saying that "PCOS doesn't change how your body processes carbs." It's saying that, whether you have PCOS or not, changing your diet from 2800 calories a day to 1400 calories a day (with more micronutrients) is going to make a difference in your weight and how you feel.

If the poster had changed to a lower calorie diet and still didn't see results before eliminating carbs, it would be clearer evidence that ketosis has benefits beyond a simple reduction in calories. Alternatively, if the poster had tried a high calorie, low carb diet and saw results, that would also be more compelling.

Yeah, but she totally made an unsupported leap in logic by saying that the diet was high in calories (which she later explained was because she wasn't losing = must be high calories) even the poster specifically said that she was doing calories in, calories out restriction, which implies that the deficit alone wasn't enough to lose weight (which is extremely common for those with insulin resistance, PCOS, etc.).

MelRC117

Obviously there are many people on here commenting about PCOS and insulin resistance saying, just eat low calorie and you'll still lose! Stop making statements if you don't have knowledge about it.

Who is doing that?

Uh, several.

Who?

There are several people who have stated that Ketosis works BECAUSE it can be an effective way to be low calorie, but I have yet to read that somebody with PCOS, thyroid or diabetes would be better off simply by cutting calories.

You apparently aren't reading the same posts I am by susie cue and some other poster.

You mean where she says...

I have no doubt you feel better and started losing weight. Your diet previously was not only carb heavy but high in calories because of your carb choices. Maybe if you ate carbs like fruit and vegies which are more nutrient dense but less calories you would have lost weight. When you changed to keto/LCHF you ditched those carb heavy foods and started eating better and in a calorie deficit.

I don't read that as saying that "PCOS doesn't change how your body processes carbs." It's saying that, whether you have PCOS or not, changing your diet from 2800 calories a day to 1400 calories a day (with more micronutrients) is going to make a difference in your weight and how you feel.

If the poster had changed to a lower calorie diet and still didn't see results before eliminating carbs, it would be clearer evidence that ketosis has benefits beyond a simple reduction in calories. Alternatively, if the poster had tried a high calorie, low carb diet and saw results, that would also be more compelling.

The poster did say she tried a low cal diet: "I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working. "
She also didn't say that you can eat higher calories and eat low carb and still lose weight. No where did she say I can eat as many calories as I want as long as I am eating low carb.
You're certainly assuming alot. You obviously are one to read selectively.

albertabeefy

The poster did say she tried a low cal diet: "I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working. "
She also didn't say that you can eat higher calories and eat low carb and still lose weight. No where did she say I can eat as many calories as I want as long as I am eating low carb.
You're certainly assuming alot. You obviously are one to read selectively.

Not to mention someone with PCOS adopts low-carb not JUST for weight-loss, but for glycemic control.

PCOS presents in virtually all cases with insulin-resistance. It's been proven repeatedly that a low-carb / moderate-protein / high-fat ketogenic diet is superior for those with insulin-resistance and/or diabetes.

alexanderzamani

ketosis is not a must.

likitisplit

Obviously there are many people on here commenting about PCOS and insulin resistance saying, just eat low calorie and you'll still lose! Stop making statements if you don't have knowledge about it.

Who is doing that?

Uh, several.

Who?

There are several people who have stated that Ketosis works BECAUSE it can be an effective way to be low calorie, but I have yet to read that somebody with PCOS, thyroid or diabetes would be better off simply by cutting calories.

You apparently aren't reading the same posts I am by susie cue and some other poster.

You mean where she says...

I have no doubt you feel better and started losing weight. Your diet previously was not only carb heavy but high in calories because of your carb choices. Maybe if you ate carbs like fruit and vegies which are more nutrient dense but less calories you would have lost weight. When you changed to keto/LCHF you ditched those carb heavy foods and started eating better and in a calorie deficit.

I don't read that as saying that "PCOS doesn't change how your body processes carbs." It's saying that, whether you have PCOS or not, changing your diet from 2800 calories a day to 1400 calories a day (with more micronutrients) is going to make a difference in your weight and how you feel.

If the poster had changed to a lower calorie diet and still didn't see results before eliminating carbs, it would be clearer evidence that ketosis has benefits beyond a simple reduction in calories. Alternatively, if the poster had tried a high calorie, low carb diet and saw results, that would also be more compelling.

The poster did say she tried a low cal diet: "I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working. "
She also didn't say that you can eat higher calories and eat low carb and still lose weight. No where did she say I can eat as many calories as I want as long as I am eating low carb.
You're certainly assuming alot. You obviously are one to read selectively.

Here's the entire post that susiecue was responding to:

I have PCOS. I've tried the calories in -calories out = losing and it didn't work, at all, for me. For my body, there is a lot more too that math problem. My WL isn't any faster then before, but is faster then other attempts simply because its working.

Before Keto/LCHF I was eating sugars breakfast cereals, sugary milk, heavy grain filled lunches, grain heavy pasta dinners. We ate very little veggies, except maybe a salad at lunch. My diet now is 4-8 CUPS of veggies a day, protein shakes, bacon, heavy whipping cream in place of milk, steak, pork, salami, peperoni, ect.

My body doesn't handle carbs right, I try to stay under 30 but if I go over, so long as under 50 not a big deal. I've lost 20lbs since the beginning of January, and now with the WL I'm adding in, I'm the strongest I've ever been.

I do see where she says that she tried calories in - calories out.

However, there are also the issues of
1) few veggies
2) probably not meeting protein and fat requirements

But that shouldn't make as much of a difference at it seemed to. I grant you your point.

alexanderzamani

It's just a different approach to dieting, the idea that is you remove/ limit carbohydrates, your body will shift from glucose metabolism to fatty acid oxidation (fat burning) as a means to provide energy for the body as well as reducing insulin sensitivity leading to reduced fat storage and increased fat loss.

Ketosis is the state of having high levels of ketone bodies in your blood. Ketone bodies are by-products of fatty acid metabolism, which would be an indication that your body as switched over to fatty acid metabolism over glucose metabolism. Nutritional ketosis is the state that is achieved through following ketogenic diets. This state, according to the theory behind the carbohydrate restricting diets (mentioned above), is the ideal state for fat loss. . This is why many desire to be in nutritional ketosis though some people following these diets argue that ketosis is not the ideal goal of low carb diets but rather a side-effect of being in an ideal fat-burning state and thus do not believe ketosis is required specifically for fat loss.

Calorie counting is based on pure energy requirements in terms of energy spent vs energy consumed, disregarding the effects of different macronutrients on fat loss. Your body will remain in glucose metabolism on this diet (most likely). Your energetic requirements are calculated on your basal metabolic rate (BMR), Exercise, ext, calories being the measurement of energy here. You specifically consume less energy in your diet than your total energy requirements, leading to your body compensating by making up the energy difference by burning fatty acids in your adipose tissue, hence the fat loss. This would be probably done by a series of signalling systems and hormone regulation as a compensatory mechanism for a restricted calorie diet.

This is a big simplification but a basic theory of the biochemistry behind it. There's a pretty big divide and discussion between which theory is right and the science is still far from conclusive. I'll say though that personally I've lost weight on both diets. I've lost weight a little faster on ketogenic diets but I find it to be very difficult and physically and mentally exhausting to follow whereas calorie control is much more enjoyable but a little slower. Take all my advice with a pinch of salt but I would say long-term calorie controlled diet and healthy balanced whole foods (with leeway for some junk food, meals out just for convenience) is best just for general life enjoyment. It's a personal choice though and I wish you (and everyone else) the best with everything you decide. I hope I might be able to clear a few things up for you and answer your question.

ShadowMist124

It's just a different approach to dieting, the idea that is you remove/ limit carbohydrates, your body will shift from glucose metabolism to fatty acid oxidation (fat burning) as a means to provide energy for the body as well as reducing insulin sensitivity leading to reduced fat storage and increased fat loss.

Ketosis is the state of having high levels of ketone bodies in your blood. Ketone bodies are by-products of fatty acid metabolism, which would be an indication that your body as switched over to fatty acid metabolism over glucose metabolism. Nutritional ketosis is the state that is achieved through following ketogenic diets. This state, according to the theory behind the carbohydrate restricting diets (mentioned above), is the ideal state for fat loss. . This is why many desire to be in nutritional ketosis though some people following these diets argue that ketosis is not the ideal goal of low carb diets but rather a side-effect of being in an ideal fat-burning state and thus do not believe ketosis is required specifically for fat loss.

Calorie counting is based on pure energy requirements in terms of energy spent vs energy consumed, disregarding the effects of different macronutrients on fat loss. Your body will remain in glucose metabolism on this diet (most likely). Your energetic requirements are calculated on your basal metabolic rate (BMR), Exercise, ext, calories being the measurement of energy here. You specifically consume less energy in your diet than your total energy requirements, leading to your body compensating by making up the energy difference by burning fatty acids in your adipose tissue, hence the fat loss. This would be probably done by a series of signalling systems and hormone regulation as a compensatory mechanism for a restricted calorie diet.

This is a big simplification but a basic theory of the biochemistry behind it. There's a pretty big divide and discussion between which theory is right and the science is still far from conclusive. I'll say though that personally I've lost weight on both diets. I've lost weight a little faster on ketogenic diets but I find it to be very difficult and physically and mentally exhausting to follow whereas calorie control is much more enjoyable but a little slower. Take all my advice with a pinch of salt but I would say long-term calorie controlled diet and healthy balanced whole foods (with leeway for some junk food, meals out just for convenience) is best just for general life enjoyment. It's a personal choice though and I wish you (and everyone else) the best with everything you decide. I hope I might be able to clear a few things up for you and answer your question.

Thanks everybody for replying, I appreciate it. However I find this to be most comprehensive. Cleared my confusion

ShadowMist124

It's just a different approach to dieting, the idea that is you remove/ limit carbohydrates, your body will shift from glucose metabolism to fatty acid oxidation (fat burning) as a means to provide energy for the body as well as reducing insulin sensitivity leading to reduced fat storage and increased fat loss.

Ketosis is the state of having high levels of ketone bodies in your blood. Ketone bodies are by-products of fatty acid metabolism, which would be an indication that your body as switched over to fatty acid metabolism over glucose metabolism. Nutritional ketosis is the state that is achieved through following ketogenic diets. This state, according to the theory behind the carbohydrate restricting diets (mentioned above), is the ideal state for fat loss. . This is why many desire to be in nutritional ketosis though some people following these diets argue that ketosis is not the ideal goal of low carb diets but rather a side-effect of being in an ideal fat-burning state and thus do not believe ketosis is required specifically for fat loss.

Calorie counting is based on pure energy requirements in terms of energy spent vs energy consumed, disregarding the effects of different macronutrients on fat loss. Your body will remain in glucose metabolism on this diet (most likely). Your energetic requirements are calculated on your basal metabolic rate (BMR), Exercise, ext, calories being the measurement of energy here. You specifically consume less energy in your diet than your total energy requirements, leading to your body compensating by making up the energy difference by burning fatty acids in your adipose tissue, hence the fat loss. This would be probably done by a series of signalling systems and hormone regulation as a compensatory mechanism for a restricted calorie diet.

This is a big simplification but a basic theory of the biochemistry behind it. There's a pretty big divide and discussion between which theory is right and the science is still far from conclusive. I'll say though that personally I've lost weight on both diets. I've lost weight a little faster on ketogenic diets but I find it to be very difficult and physically and mentally exhausting to follow whereas calorie control is much more enjoyable but a little slower. Take all my advice with a pinch of salt but I would say long-term calorie controlled diet and healthy balanced whole foods (with leeway for some junk food, meals out just for convenience) is best just for general life enjoyment. It's a personal choice though and I wish you (and everyone else) the best with everything you decide. I hope I might be able to clear a few things up for you and answer your question.

Thanks everybody for replying, I appreciate it. However I find this to be most comprehensive. Cleared my confusion

And I'd like to add, the part that I was confused about is whether the body burns carb or fat on just calorie deficit and not ketosis... you get what I mean? Just like how I always hear people say that exercising less than 30 min is useless and practically does nothing for fat burning because the body is just using up glycogen stores in the first 30 mins. But then what about the theories of 'move more' and 'any exercise is good'? Yeah that's pretty much the confusion I'm talking about.

ndj1979

It's just a different approach to dieting, the idea that is you remove/ limit carbohydrates, your body will shift from glucose metabolism to fatty acid oxidation (fat burning) as a means to provide energy for the body as well as reducing insulin sensitivity leading to reduced fat storage and increased fat loss.

Ketosis is the state of having high levels of ketone bodies in your blood. Ketone bodies are by-products of fatty acid metabolism, which would be an indication that your body as switched over to fatty acid metabolism over glucose metabolism. Nutritional ketosis is the state that is achieved through following ketogenic diets. This state, according to the theory behind the carbohydrate restricting diets (mentioned above), is the ideal state for fat loss. . This is why many desire to be in nutritional ketosis though some people following these diets argue that ketosis is not the ideal goal of low carb diets but rather a side-effect of being in an ideal fat-burning state and thus do not believe ketosis is required specifically for fat loss.

Calorie counting is based on pure energy requirements in terms of energy spent vs energy consumed, disregarding the effects of different macronutrients on fat loss. Your body will remain in glucose metabolism on this diet (most likely). Your energetic requirements are calculated on your basal metabolic rate (BMR), Exercise, ext, calories being the measurement of energy here. You specifically consume less energy in your diet than your total energy requirements, leading to your body compensating by making up the energy difference by burning fatty acids in your adipose tissue, hence the fat loss. This would be probably done by a series of signalling systems and hormone regulation as a compensatory mechanism for a restricted calorie diet.

This is a big simplification but a basic theory of the biochemistry behind it. There's a pretty big divide and discussion between which theory is right and the science is still far from conclusive. I'll say though that personally I've lost weight on both diets. I've lost weight a little faster on ketogenic diets but I find it to be very difficult and physically and mentally exhausting to follow whereas calorie control is much more enjoyable but a little slower. Take all my advice with a pinch of salt but I would say long-term calorie controlled diet and healthy balanced whole foods (with leeway for some junk food, meals out just for convenience) is best just for general life enjoyment. It's a personal choice though and I wish you (and everyone else) the best with everything you decide. I hope I might be able to clear a few things up for you and answer your question.

Thanks everybody for replying, I appreciate it. However I find this to be most comprehensive. Cleared my confusion

And I'd like to add, the part that I was confused about is whether the body burns carb or fat on just calorie deficit and not ketosis... you get what I mean? Just like how I always hear people say that exercising less than 30 min is useless and practically does nothing for fat burning because the body is just using up glycogen stores in the first 30 mins. But then what about the theories of 'move more' and 'any exercise is good'? Yeah that's pretty much the confusion I'm talking about.

if you are in a calorie deficit then your body is burning fat stores, period.

You can not exercise and lose weight…however, for body comp and overall health reasons exercise is recommended …just depends on what your goals are and what you want to look like….

likitisplit

And I'd like to add, the part that I was confused about is whether the body burns carb or fat on just calorie deficit and not ketosis... you get what I mean? Just like how I always hear people say that exercising less than 30 min is useless and practically does nothing for fat burning because the body is just using up glycogen stores in the first 30 mins. But then what about the theories of 'move more' and 'any exercise is good'? Yeah that's pretty much the confusion I'm talking about.

It takes about a 20 mile run to really burn all the way through your glycogen stores.

What happens if you use a little bit of glycogen? Your body makes more glycogen. And where does it pull the calories to do that from once you hit a deficit? Your fat stores. It's kind of constantly processing calories in and out of muscles and fat as you eat and move.

As long as you are meeting or exceeding your total daily exercise requirements, you can fit the activity in with 10 minute increments, unless you are doing specific training with a specific purpose for a specific sport (a two hour long run does something different than twelve 10 minute intervals).