Sexual Harassment at the Gym..
Replies
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If this happened in the workplace it might be considered harrassment, but those policies don't necessarily extend outside the workplace. Is there a policy manual for the gym? If there is it may be addressed in their manual. You say the owner's fiance is your trainer? Why cancel the appointment? You could inadvertently bring it up in the conversation without naming anyone and just say that some of the guys were a little loud with their comments and it was embarrassing to you. She would probably tell him, he probably didn't realize that their "conversation" had gone too far for mixed company. He's in the business of making money and losing a membership is something that would affect him directly, especially if more women become uncomfortable there and leave.
the gym is somebody's workplace.
anyone that works there should just buy a pair of headphones and put on their big boy/girl pants too. because everyone has a right to spew the most foul garbage loud enough so that the entire room can hear. that's what i got from this thread.0 -
'"For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general."
It could be argued...
but it wasn't directed at her and she just happened to overhear something she disapproved of, so it's hard to name as harassment.
No, it's not. If someone finds something offensive even if it's NOT directed at them they can certainly complain. They can state that they felt uncomfortable and threatened by the conversation which would lead to a 'talking to' or an investigation. Either way HR would be involved.
finding something offensive /=/ sexual harassment.
"harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks
According to the OP they were making obscene remarks that made her feel uncomfortable so yeah. It is considered sexual harassment.
But then again I only wrote Employment Practices Liability insurance policies for 13 years so what do I know?
They weren't talking to her.
That makes zero difference. If someone is offended by something regardless of whether or not it is directed at them they can complain and say it's causing a hostile work environment.0 -
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'"For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general."
It could be argued...
but it wasn't directed at her and she just happened to overhear something she disapproved of, so it's hard to name as harassment.
No, it's not. If someone finds something offensive even if it's NOT directed at them they can certainly complain. They can state that they felt uncomfortable and threatened by the conversation which would lead to a 'talking to' or an investigation. Either way HR would be involved.
finding something offensive /=/ sexual harassment.
"harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks
According to the OP they were making obscene remarks that made her feel uncomfortable so yeah. It is considered sexual harassment.
But then again I only wrote Employment Practices Liability insurance policies for 13 years so what do I know?
They weren't talking to her.
That makes zero difference. If someone is offended by something regardless of whether or not it is directed at them they can complain and say it's causing a hostile work environment.
but she doesnt work there.0 -
Yeah. This is why I like and prefer gyms that have a Women's room. I thought the very idea was silly and sexist at first, but men in the gym can be so annoying and intimidating. I don't have time for it so I head straight to the Women's area where I'm most comfortable.0
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I like gyms where everyone is included. People need to learn to open their mouths and speak up if they aren't happy. The world might be a bit better if people were straight up....0
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This content has been removed.
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'"For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general."
It could be argued...
but it wasn't directed at her and she just happened to overhear something she disapproved of, so it's hard to name as harassment.
No, it's not. If someone finds something offensive even if it's NOT directed at them they can certainly complain. They can state that they felt uncomfortable and threatened by the conversation which would lead to a 'talking to' or an investigation. Either way HR would be involved.
finding something offensive /=/ sexual harassment.
"harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks
According to the OP they were making obscene remarks that made her feel uncomfortable so yeah. It is considered sexual harassment.
But then again I only wrote Employment Practices Liability insurance policies for 13 years so what do I know?
They weren't talking to her.
That makes zero difference. If someone is offended by something regardless of whether or not it is directed at them they can complain and say it's causing a hostile work environment.
but she doesnt work there.
so, if I told a female (or male) customer at the store I worked at that I wanted to have sex with them that wouldn't be considered sexual harassment?
Yeah probably would be, but that's not what happend.0 -
This content has been removed.
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'"For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general."
It could be argued...
but it wasn't directed at her and she just happened to overhear something she disapproved of, so it's hard to name as harassment.
No, it's not. If someone finds something offensive even if it's NOT directed at them they can certainly complain. They can state that they felt uncomfortable and threatened by the conversation which would lead to a 'talking to' or an investigation. Either way HR would be involved.
finding something offensive /=/ sexual harassment.
"harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks
According to the OP they were making obscene remarks that made her feel uncomfortable so yeah. It is considered sexual harassment.
But then again I only wrote Employment Practices Liability insurance policies for 13 years so what do I know?
They weren't talking to her.
That makes zero difference. If someone is offended by something regardless of whether or not it is directed at them they can complain and say it's causing a hostile work environment.
but she doesnt work there.
so, if I told a female (or male) customer at the store I worked at that I wanted to have sex with them that wouldn't be considered sexual harassment?
Yeah probably would be, but that's not what happend.
why does it matter if the person works there or not is what I'm getting at?
She doesnt work there, there for it does not cause her to be in a hostile work environment.0 -
So as a legal matter, I don't think it's sexual harassment. It's tacky, tasteless, rude, disgusting and lots of other stuff, but not legally sexual harassment. The reason is you have to duty not to discriminate on the basis of sex before you can violate it. You don't have that general duty in your normal life. Title VII of the Civil Rights Act makes sex discrimination in the workplace between employers and employees illegal, but that doesn't extend beyond the employment relationship: From the EEOC's website, which has the act:
(a) Employer practices
It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer -
(1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; or
(2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees or applicants for employment in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.
(b) Employment agency practices
It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employment agency to fail or refuse to refer for employment, or otherwise to discriminate against, any individual because of his race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, or to classify or refer for employment any individual on the basis of his race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.
Creating a hostile work environment is a form of sex discrimination, but it wouldn't apply to a patron under this act.
In general, federal law doesn't prohibit sex discrimination in public accomodations, but many state do. It would then be a question of whether creating a hostile environment for women rose to the level of sex discrimination in offering a public accommodation. Overhearing an isolated conversation might be hard to prove in that regard.0 -
Oh my god what in the hell is wrong with some of you people.
All right, just to clear it up right now: It was a stupid conversation between some guys who were being stupid guys. We're guys! We'll say stupid **** when we're around one another and we probably won't really concern ourselves too much with what anyone else thinks. I mean, personally I always try to keep conversations that might be construed as lewd either low volume or just not at all. Like I had a friend who was trying to tell me about the girls he was banging and personally I just don't want to hear about it. I mean, I don't want to think of my buddy getting laid, it's weird. And that's what I tell him, but I just laugh it off and say "Please don't tell me about all these chicks you're banging, that's super weird."
On the other end of the spectrum I was at a bar a few weeks ago and I had just met this dude who had gotten out of the marines a few years ago and he was telling me a little about Afghanistan. We went to another bar after the first one closed down and we're sitting at the bar, drinking and he's talking about how he got his two purple hearts. They weren't graphic stories, but some dude tries to hush us and tell us that he "doesn't want to hear that" and so we were understandably irritated and kinda ignored him.
So some conversations, even if you don't like them, can be told anyway. That conversation the OP overheard doesn't sound like one I would have wanted to be involved with.
But people who are trying to make this out to be sexual harassment—or harassment of any kind!—are, and I'm sorry to say this, contributing to the decline of society as a whole. You don't have to be involved. If they're really being especially loud stand up for yourself and tell them you're not into it. Honestly their conversation would have annoyed me, too. But that's what it is, annoying, rude, gross, stupid, but it's not harassing. Not unless you say "dude, this is not an OK conversation" and then they make a point of being louder. I've had that happen, too. It sucks. It's obnoxious as ****, but then I just complain to management. I make a point of letting them know I won't spend money there anymore and almost always they're on my side. Sometimes they say "Sorry to lose you." Other times they don't care enough to say that. But that's the thing: if you're not working there, you don't have to be there. At all. Make your argument and get let out of your contract early if you feel *that* uncomfortable. And I like knowing where I should and should not spend my money in the first place. And I like not giving my money to people who are jerks.
But, again, it just sounds like these guys are obnoxious dudes, and there are a million-billion of those.0 -
Oh my god what in the hell is wrong with some of you people.
All right, just to clear it up right now: It was a stupid conversation between some guys who were being stupid guys. We're guys! We'll say stupid **** when we're around one another and we probably won't really concern ourselves too much with what anyone else thinks. I mean, personally I always try to keep conversations that might be construed as lewd either low volume or just not at all. Like I had a friend who was trying to tell me about the girls he was banging and personally I just don't want to hear about it. I mean, I don't want to think of my buddy getting laid, it's weird. And that's what I tell him, but I just laugh it off and say "Please don't tell me about all these chicks you're banging, that's super weird."
On the other end of the spectrum I was at a bar a few weeks ago and I had just met this dude who had gotten out of the marines a few years ago and he was telling me a little about Afghanistan. We went to another bar after the first one closed down and we're sitting at the bar, drinking and he's talking about how he got his two purple hearts. They weren't graphic stories, but some dude tries to hush us and tell us that he "doesn't want to hear that" and so we were understandably irritated and kinda ignored him.
So some conversations, even if you don't like them, can be told anyway. That conversation the OP overheard doesn't sound like one I would have wanted to be involved with.
But people who are trying to make this out to be sexual harassment—or harassment of any kind!—are, and I'm sorry to say this, contributing to the decline of society as a whole. You don't have to be involved. If they're really being especially loud stand up for yourself and tell them you're not into it. Honestly their conversation would have annoyed me, too. But that's what it is, annoying, rude, gross, stupid, but it's not harassing. Not unless you say "dude, this is not an OK conversation" and then they make a point of being louder. I've had that happen, too. It sucks. It's obnoxious as ****, but then I just complain to management. I make a point of letting them know I won't spend money there anymore and almost always they're on my side. Sometimes they say "Sorry to lose you." Other times they don't care enough to say that. But that's the thing: if you're not working there, you don't have to be there. At all. Make your argument and get let out of your contract early if you feel *that* uncomfortable. And I like knowing where I should and should not spend my money in the first place. And I like not giving my money to people who are jerks.
But, again, it just sounds like these guys are obnoxious dudes, and there are a million-billion of those.
It's okay, the OP just wants to get toned0 -
I don't even know what the hell that's supposed to mean. Are you just getting off by being unhelpful? I mean, 16k posts in two years, maybe, huh?
e; not that I'm any better, I've got 738 posts of just being an unhelpful jerk, so whatever.0 -
Tell me the proper post to year ratio and I'll recalibrate my goals0
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I swallowed my own tongue once0
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Either more than 10,000 or less than 20. Nothing in between. Anything in between is socialism.Tell me the proper post to year ratio and I'll recalibrate my goals0 -
Either more than 10,000 or less than 20. Nothing in between. Anything in between is socialism.Tell me the proper post to year ratio and I'll recalibrate my goals
Socialist.0 -
I used to be a socialist ... till Obama got re-elected, then I learned my lesson.0
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I don't do that and if I hear someone else do it, I call that person on it.well god forbid anybody not like all Americans. because it's not like we Americans ever make blanket statements putting down people from other places. damned foreigners with their stooopid metric system and all.
What is that saying about two wrongs not making a right?0 -
I believe the saying is "It just doesn't matter". People can have opinions. This opinions are allowed to be things I don't like. Things such as "Americans are weird" or "davpul is an *kitten*". It's okay.
But it's a damn strange world when people are allowed to get oh so offended by words like "you're strange" but not allowed to be offended by dirty locker room talk in a public place while surrounded by mixed company.0 -
davpul is an *kitten*0
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I know everyone likes to make a big thing out of anything sexually related (seriously, grow up America) but let's put this in perspective. You had one bad experience, not even directly related to you, in one year. Finish out your contract and leave if you think you can't move on (but seriously, try to move on). However, if it really bothered you THAT much have a conversation with the manager about how you were offended. I'd say there's a fair chance he'll be apologetic. If not at least you said your piece and got things off your chest.0
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davpul is an *kitten*
That's not an opinion.0 -
The funny thing about people being allowed opinions is that it works in both ways.I believe the saying is "It just doesn't matter". People can have opinions. This opinions are allowed to be things I don't like. Things such as "Americans are weird" or "davpul is an *kitten*". It's okay.
But it's a damn strange world when people are allowed to get oh so offended by words like "you're strange" but not allowed to be offended by dirty locker room talk in a public place while surrounded by mixed company.
No one is saying she can't be offended by what she heard -- NO ONE said that. We're just pointing out that sometimes you're going to hear things you don't like. Throwing a temper tantrum every time someone mentions sex in your earshot isn't particularly productive. It's one thing to vent about it or even to ask them to maybe consider taking such talk to a more private place. It's another to want to quit the gym and fire your trainer (who had nothing to do with it in the first place) and call it sexual harrassment.
What the other poster did was generalize negatively about a nation of 300 million individuals. Calling it a generalization is not incorrect. Calling what the OP experienced sexual harrassment is incorrect.0 -
The OP threw a temper tantrum?
Lololololol0 -
Firing one's trainer and quitting a gym at which you've been otherwise happy is throwing a temper tantrum.The OP threw a temper tantrum?
Lololololol0 -
TIL that exercising your right as a consumer to spend your money as you see fit is a tantamount to throwing a temper tantrum.
Yesterday I learned that if you're a woman that you shouldn't have any expectation of people being polite around you and that you're a whiny ninny if you even think of asking them to lower their voices. It's a man's world, so suck it up, buttercup.
Yesterday I learned that although women have to butch UP and turn up the volume on their headphones, Americans can whine about any slight and be perfectly justified because, MURICA.
Last week I learned that even though it's a man's world and women have no right to expect common courtesy, if a man appears on the same public street as a woman, he's "following" her, and the police need to be immediately notified.0 -
agreed \m/
Firing one's trainer and quitting a gym at which you've been otherwise happy is throwing a temper tantrum.The OP threw a temper tantrum?
Lololololol0 -
Yo, davpul, I think you might have chauvinism down. Though I'm not really sure you'll get it. Sorry, bro.0
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