Everything in moderation

eldamiano

I have to totally agree with tennisdude2004's post:

"What may be addictive to one person may not be to another. Hence why most of the population can function normally whilst including alcohol into their lives and others cannot.

Seems a bit strange that we cannot accept that food can be addictive."

There is lots of research on food addiction from reputable sources on the internet that addresses just this issue. Some people are able to keep a pint of vodka, for example, in their liquor cabinet and are able to have a drink or two periodically and not consume the entire bottle in one sitting just as some people are able to have a bag of Reese's peanut butter cups in their pantry and only consume one and not feel compelled to eat the entire bag in one sitting. Personally (and this is just my opinion), both of these things equate to an addiction.

Food is not addictive. We are born and start consuming food. We are educated in various ways by parents, schools and others and are given habits about eating. A baby boy is not born hooked on the food he/she eats. It just becomes a habit which varies between people to other extremes

Drugs on the other hand are addictive. People are not born with a drug/tobacco addiction, just like they arent born with a food addiction. However, they try tobacco for the first time and they can be addicted because of the substance. Sugar for example isnt addictive. People dont eat bags of plain sugar to satisfy their 'addiction'. They eat other sugary foods simply because they have bad habits and they tell their own self they need more.

Anything can be addictive - even derp!

The problem isn't the thing that is addictive but the person addicted to it. Why is that so hard to comprehend.

Because it is a load of crap. The reason that people are overweight is due to lack of willpower. Lack of willpower comes from the person, but this is not an addiction. This is just a cultural/social thing, not a medical case.

Are you applying this philosophy to every single overweight person in existance? If so, you are incredibly judgmental and close-minded.

Please refrain from using a lack of common sense before writing such junk.

Therealobi1

Sorry I don't actually understand what you are trying to say!

What have doctors got to do with it? I was disagreeing with the OP's mentality of telling everyone they must do what he does, i.e.: "They NEED to add this food to their week." " Eat the ****ing food and enjoy it in moderation" "This type of mentality SHOULD be used" "All of that is total Bull****!" - yet at the same time saying "All over this forum I see people demonizing food and activities." - yet what he is actually doing is demonising any other way of eating than what he suggests.

I have no problem with his way of eating, and I can understand that it can be effective for a lot of people who have long-term weight/overeating issues. But no-one can say something is effective for every single person in the world, end of. And I have a problem when people try to tell other people they MUST do the same as them.

I'm coming at this for longevity reasons.
If you generally have a stress free lifestyle where you sleep well, eat the food you enjoy, move like a human being, and are generally in good spirits, you'll live longer!

Eat the food you enjoy in moderation
**** in moderation
Workout in moderation
Drink in moderation (if you aren't an alcoholic)
Smoke dope in moderation (if its legal where you live)
Play video games in moderation
Do paleo in moderation
Keto in moderation
Atkins in moderation
whatever in moderation

I think if you really dissect whats unfolded here, you'll see a large number of people who are happier in their lives because of this, and a lot of discourse with folks who don't believe its true for them. Hopefully lifting a mirror to look at who you truly are and how you feel about things in your life, you can decide if something truly belongs or will bring happiness.
I'm happy with Ben and Jerry's, Oreo cookies and other junk foods. Do I eat just these foods? Nope! i eat a ton of organic food, grass fed meat, organic farm fresh eggs, and a whole slew of whole foods. I train 3x a week and look like I'm in my mid 20s. I've arrested my ADD systems with this type of lifestyle and i'm getting "A's" in school because of it.
I'm happy.

For those who have discourse with what i've said, challenge yourself and ask yourself "Why do I have an issue with being moderate wit these lifestyle choices."

Don't get pissed at me for holding up that mirror folks.
It's up to you how YOU act and how YOU decide to take the information.

i dont understand why anyone should get annoyed by the statement. But this thing is not easy. Even for me who has not labelled devil/angel foods. for me its just working through this moderation thing. i know its all about willpower and something as i said in my earlier post WIP for me.

Therealobi1

I have to totally agree with tennisdude2004's post:

"What may be addictive to one person may not be to another. Hence why most of the population can function normally whilst including alcohol into their lives and others cannot.

Seems a bit strange that we cannot accept that food can be addictive."

There is lots of research on food addiction from reputable sources on the internet that addresses just this issue. Some people are able to keep a pint of vodka, for example, in their liquor cabinet and are able to have a drink or two periodically and not consume the entire bottle in one sitting just as some people are able to have a bag of Reese's peanut butter cups in their pantry and only consume one and not feel compelled to eat the entire bag in one sitting. Personally (and this is just my opinion), both of these things equate to an addiction.

Food is not addictive. We are born and start consuming food. We are educated in various ways by parents, schools and others and are given habits about eating. A baby boy is not born hooked on the food he/she eats. It just becomes a habit which varies between people to other extremes

Drugs on the other hand are addictive. People are not born with a drug/tobacco addiction, just like they arent born with a food addiction. However, they try tobacco for the first time and they can be addicted because of the substance. Sugar for example isnt addictive. People dont eat bags of plain sugar to satisfy their 'addiction'. They eat other sugary foods simply because they have bad habits and they tell their own self they need more.

Anything can be addictive - even derp!

The problem isn't the thing that is addictive but the person addicted to it. Why is that so hard to comprehend.

Because it is a load of crap. The reason that people are overweight is due to lack of willpower. Lack of willpower comes from the person, but this is not an addiction. This is just a cultural/social thing, not a medical case.

Are you applying this philosophy to every single overweight person in existance? If so, you are incredibly judgmental and close-minded.

Please refrain from using a lack of common sense before writing such junk.

ooooooooooh the MFP police has now spoken

tennisdude2004

I have to totally agree with tennisdude2004's post:

"What may be addictive to one person may not be to another. Hence why most of the population can function normally whilst including alcohol into their lives and others cannot.

Seems a bit strange that we cannot accept that food can be addictive."

There is lots of research on food addiction from reputable sources on the internet that addresses just this issue. Some people are able to keep a pint of vodka, for example, in their liquor cabinet and are able to have a drink or two periodically and not consume the entire bottle in one sitting just as some people are able to have a bag of Reese's peanut butter cups in their pantry and only consume one and not feel compelled to eat the entire bag in one sitting. Personally (and this is just my opinion), both of these things equate to an addiction.

Food is not addictive. We are born and start consuming food. We are educated in various ways by parents, schools and others and are given habits about eating. A baby boy is not born hooked on the food he/she eats. It just becomes a habit which varies between people to other extremes

Drugs on the other hand are addictive. People are not born with a drug/tobacco addiction, just like they arent born with a food addiction. However, they try tobacco for the first time and they can be addicted because of the substance. Sugar for example isnt addictive. People dont eat bags of plain sugar to satisfy their 'addiction'. They eat other sugary foods simply because they have bad habits and they tell their own self they need more.

Anything can be addictive - even derp!

The problem isn't the thing that is addictive but the person addicted to it. Why is that so hard to comprehend.

Because it is a load of crap. The reason that people are overweight is due to lack of willpower. Lack of willpower comes from the person, but this is not an addiction. This is just a cultural/social thing, not a medical case.

Are you applying this philosophy to every single overweight person in existance? If so, you are incredibly judgmental and close-minded.

Please refrain from using a lack of common sense before writing such junk.

You would do well to heed your own advice!!

Annie_01

Will power can come in many different forms.

I use my will power not to buy those Peanut Butter M&Ms...I love those things...not the little bitty bags...but those huge giant sized bags. I especially love them when they are on sale...even better when they are buy 1...get 1 free. That's when I used to have no will power...I could justify buying those Peanut Butter M&Ms...they were after all...a really good deal.

I struggled for a while not buying them...then I used my will power to be able to walk on by them at the store.

Could I buy them and have just 1 Peanut Butter M&M...possibly...but...I choose not to...will power.

Maybe one day...I will let those cute little guys back in to my life...maybe not. I don't think that they are evil...nor are they "bad"...I just don't need them any more.

vjohn04

lauren3101

I have to totally agree with tennisdude2004's post:

"What may be addictive to one person may not be to another. Hence why most of the population can function normally whilst including alcohol into their lives and others cannot.

Seems a bit strange that we cannot accept that food can be addictive."

There is lots of research on food addiction from reputable sources on the internet that addresses just this issue. Some people are able to keep a pint of vodka, for example, in their liquor cabinet and are able to have a drink or two periodically and not consume the entire bottle in one sitting just as some people are able to have a bag of Reese's peanut butter cups in their pantry and only consume one and not feel compelled to eat the entire bag in one sitting. Personally (and this is just my opinion), both of these things equate to an addiction.

Food is not addictive. We are born and start consuming food. We are educated in various ways by parents, schools and others and are given habits about eating. A baby boy is not born hooked on the food he/she eats. It just becomes a habit which varies between people to other extremes

Drugs on the other hand are addictive. People are not born with a drug/tobacco addiction, just like they arent born with a food addiction. However, they try tobacco for the first time and they can be addicted because of the substance. Sugar for example isnt addictive. People dont eat bags of plain sugar to satisfy their 'addiction'. They eat other sugary foods simply because they have bad habits and they tell their own self they need more.

Anything can be addictive - even derp!

The problem isn't the thing that is addictive but the person addicted to it. Why is that so hard to comprehend.

Because it is a load of crap. The reason that people are overweight is due to lack of willpower. Lack of willpower comes from the person, but this is not an addiction. This is just a cultural/social thing, not a medical case.

Are you applying this philosophy to every single overweight person in existance? If so, you are incredibly judgmental and close-minded.

Please refrain from using a lack of common sense before writing such junk.

You would do well to heed your own advice!!

Beat me to it.

At least I asked rather than assumed. :happy:

estaticaa

I feel that ever since I started changing my lifestyle, I've been able to eat everything I want in moderation and that certainly makes me less anxious about the whole thing. The thought of never eating certain foods again would just trigger obsessive thoughts and I'd probably just sabotage myself in the end. In that sense, I understand where the OP is coming from. For me (and this is really just a personal thing), learning self restraint is part of my journey to lose weight.

Having that said, I'm still not ready to keep trigger foods at home (which is chocolate stuff, basically). For that reason, I only eat chocolate when I'm out. It's easy to just buy one chocolate bar when I'm outside and savor it without feeling guilty, but I know that it would be torture for me to eat just one bar if I had a few more waiting in my pantry.

So bottom line (for me) is: eating all kinds of food in moderation - sure, it works; keeping trigger foods at home - no, it's like a train wreck waiting to happen.

Slacker16

I'm crunching numbers now.
Join dates too but that's in another chart.

Better enable my ticker, then :P.

I would do so too, but I track my waist rather than my weight.

Since I'm already in:
starting waist : 35 in (on a good day)
current waist: 31 in (30.5, actually)
goal waist: 30 in

Drink in moderation (if you aren't an alcoholic)
Smoke dope in moderation (if its legal where you live)
Play video games in moderation

likitisplit

I have to totally agree with tennisdude2004's post:

"What may be addictive to one person may not be to another. Hence why most of the population can function normally whilst including alcohol into their lives and others cannot.

Seems a bit strange that we cannot accept that food can be addictive."

There is lots of research on food addiction from reputable sources on the internet that addresses just this issue. Some people are able to keep a pint of vodka, for example, in their liquor cabinet and are able to have a drink or two periodically and not consume the entire bottle in one sitting just as some people are able to have a bag of Reese's peanut butter cups in their pantry and only consume one and not feel compelled to eat the entire bag in one sitting. Personally (and this is just my opinion), both of these things equate to an addiction.

Food is not addictive. We are born and start consuming food. We are educated in various ways by parents, schools and others and are given habits about eating. A baby boy is not born hooked on the food he/she eats. It just becomes a habit which varies between people to other extremes

Drugs on the other hand are addictive. People are not born with a drug/tobacco addiction, just like they arent born with a food addiction. However, they try tobacco for the first time and they can be addicted because of the substance. Sugar for example isnt addictive. People dont eat bags of plain sugar to satisfy their 'addiction'. They eat other sugary foods simply because they have bad habits and they tell their own self they need more.

Anything can be addictive - even derp!

The problem isn't the thing that is addictive but the person addicted to it. Why is that so hard to comprehend.

Because it is a load of crap. The reason that people are overweight is due to lack of willpower. Lack of willpower comes from the person, but this is not an addiction. This is just a cultural/social thing, not a medical case.

I thought I was overweight because of a lack of willpower. Apparently it was actually the lack of an iphone. Having easy access to a MFP as a feedback tool gave me the information I needed to get my health under control without needing any extra willpower.

JulsiePie

Speaking from the point of a newbie, I eat everything and anything I want - I have FORCED myself to have willpower and self-control.

But from reading this thread, I see that not everyone can do that.

Personally, if I told myself 24 days ago that there was forbidden foods that I couldn't eat until I lost 150 pounds, I would have fallen off the wagon already.

Food is delicious. I love it. That's how I got to almost 300 pounds, but I need to get to a healthy weight while still loving food

But that's just me! To each their own.

Helloitsdan

I'm crunching numbers now.
Join dates too but that's in another chart.

Better enable my ticker, then :P.

I would do so too, but I track my waist rather than my weight.

Since I'm already in:
starting waist : 35 in (on a good day)
current waist: 31 in (30.5, actually)
goal waist: 30 in

Drink in moderation (if you aren't an alcoholic)
Smoke dope in moderation (if its legal where you live)
Play video games in moderation

Lol dude!
Literally!

likitisplit

Will power can come in many different forms.

I use my will power not to buy those Peanut Butter M&Ms...I love those things...not the little bitty bags...but those huge giant sized bags. I especially love them when they are on sale...even better when they are buy 1...get 1 free. That's when I used to have no will power...I could justify buying those Peanut Butter M&Ms...they were after all...a really good deal.

I struggled for a while not buying them...then I used my will power to be able to walk on by them at the store.

Could I buy them and have just 1 Peanut Butter M&M...possibly...but...I choose not to...will power.

Maybe one day...I will let those cute little guys back in to my life...maybe not. I don't think that they are evil...nor are they "bad"...I just don't need them any more.

Maybe one day...a Halloween...you'll have a bag and they will be SOOOO good. And you will know that you don't have to have them, but you like them. So, every few months or so, you'll pick up a bag when you are getting gas. That will also be moderation.

JodaNord

bump for later

likitisplit

All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...

There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.


Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.

You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...

Rubbish. Alcohol is a drug, an addictive substance, food is not.

Anyone can eat in moderation if you physically serve yourself reasonable portions of food.

Comments like this really irritate me. People with an alcohol addiction, or a drug addiction, receive sympathy and help. People that have an eating disorder such an anorexia or bulimia, receive sympathy and help. Turn that eating disorder round though, and make it someone that has a binge eating disorder, and suddenly that person doesn't deserve sympathy and help. In too many cases, they are just labelled as greedy or lacking self-control.

As someone that suffers from binge eating, I can't have certain foods in the house. Sometimes the whole 'eat it in moderation' thing works, but sometimes it doesn't. And if I do have a bit of an emotional munch, having the stuff readily available in the house is not good. Having to physically drive to the supermarket to buy things for my binge gives me a chance to put that in perspective.

To the OP; demonizing food on this forum is a problem, but so is the 'this is what works for me and so you should all do it' approach that so many here seem to have. You included.

If food weren't an issue, groups like Overeater's Anonymous wouldn't exist. Binge Eating Disorder is an actual eating disorder and it's in the DSM and probably the ICD. It's a real issue and I understand why you are offended.

I've had eating disorders from anorexia, to bulimia to overeating. I know what you're talking about and I can see that the ignorance on the topic can be infuriating.

However, some people just aren't educated on the matter, and that isn't their fault. Some people don't believe any mental illness exists; those people are also infuriating, but there is no arguing with them.

I can't keep problem foods around either. If I become depressed, the only thing that makes me happy is food and no, I DON'T have control over it. I also have recurring episodes of depression so it's an issue.

So I understand "no moderation" on certain foods. I do that as well! I don't know if I'll ever eat french fries again. If that's what it takes to keep me at a healthy weight, that's what I'll do!

I'm glad it works for some people! That's fantastic. But there literally are people that CAN NOT do this without going overboard. If they could, they wouldn't have a diagnosable mental illness.

/rant.

Rubbish. Next you will be saying 'lack of willpower' is some form of disorder or disease. It isnt, by the way. Binge eating disorder in the way that people excuse themselves for is not a medical term. It is a cosy excuse for why they are so overweight - 'not my fault. I have a disorder'. The regular person does not have a disorder.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/binge-eating-disorder/basics/definition/con-20033155

I think that disordered eating is WAY more prevalent than we realize because it's been normalized. Half the articles about dieting in popular women's magazines promote disordered eating.

bagge72

This doesn't really make sense. I mean for the most part the people on here know that you can eat everything in moderation, and still hit your goals, but this is a different point. There are just some foods out there that if people have it they will eat a lot of it! So trying to eat that food in a smaller portion just isn't going to work.

likitisplit

In.

Just in.

ETA: There's usually an interesting correlation between ticker marker and which side of this argument people are on. Will be interesting to see if this thread follows the same pattern.

I'm crunching numbers now.
Join dates too but that's in another chart.

I think there's a bit of a confound here. MFP supports a particular type of diet. There are people who are successful with MFP that still struggle with it more than others. The people who this doesn't work for don't lose weight and leave sooner than later.

So, basic attrition will leave you with long term successful residents whose needs are well supported by the site.

It's kind of like running. More people COULD run for 30 minutes than believe they can. But there are still some people who just can't. And that doesn't make them wrong. It's just variability.

There are people on this website who won't allow themselves to eat anything they enjoy because they are worried that it will cause them to over eat. There are people who demonize food. There are people who are cleansing themselves of toxinz. All of these people probably would be better served by moderation.

A lot of the people responding to this thread are practicing moderation through environmental control.

There are some instances of people who aren't satisfied by a "serving" and have to eliminate. And that's not wrong, but it's a lot rarer.

jofjltncb6

I'm crunching numbers now.
Join dates too but that's in another chart.

Better enable my ticker, then :P.

Yeah, my post-bulk cut ticker is misleading.

Oh well.

ETA: Hmm, guess I'm closer to the next goal than I thought I was. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Rocbola

Moderation kills.

kuolo

I have to totally agree with tennisdude2004's post:

"What may be addictive to one person may not be to another. Hence why most of the population can function normally whilst including alcohol into their lives and others cannot.

Seems a bit strange that we cannot accept that food can be addictive."

There is lots of research on food addiction from reputable sources on the internet that addresses just this issue. Some people are able to keep a pint of vodka, for example, in their liquor cabinet and are able to have a drink or two periodically and not consume the entire bottle in one sitting just as some people are able to have a bag of Reese's peanut butter cups in their pantry and only consume one and not feel compelled to eat the entire bag in one sitting. Personally (and this is just my opinion), both of these things equate to an addiction.

Food is not addictive. We are born and start consuming food. We are educated in various ways by parents, schools and others and are given habits about eating. A baby boy is not born hooked on the food he/she eats. It just becomes a habit which varies between people to other extremes

Drugs on the other hand are addictive. People are not born with a drug/tobacco addiction, just like they arent born with a food addiction. However, they try tobacco for the first time and they can be addicted because of the substance. Sugar for example isnt addictive. People dont eat bags of plain sugar to satisfy their 'addiction'. They eat other sugary foods simply because they have bad habits and they tell their own self they need more.

This is boring (why can't people look for the research themselves? and why do people feel so threatened by the idea of hyper-palatable food activating addiction mechanisms? Dopamine is a big part of addiction and no-one denies that palatable food has a dopamine response) but here are some studies for you (are actually there any counter-studies out there that show that people cannot possibly have an addictive response to palatable food, or is it just a knee-jerk reaction?):

Neural correlates of food addiction: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21464344

Weight gain is associated with reduced striatal response to palatable food.: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20881128

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/94/2/367.short - "The hypothesis that food has evolved from a necessity and a boring staple to an object of desire and a substance of abuse has been debated for decades (1). However, over the past 10 y, empirical studies have revealed overlaps between maladaptive food intake patterns, which are sometimes seen in obesity, and drug addiction (2). As a result, “addiction” to palatable food has been suggested, with neurochemical and behavioral similarities seen in both human studies and in animal models (2, 3). In laboratory animals, signs of opiate-like withdrawal can be seen after administration of naloxone in cases in which the animals have a history of chronic overconsumption of sucrose. Furthermore, cross-tolerance and sensitization have been reported between alcohol, amphetamine, or cocaine and the overconsumption of sucrose. With these behaviors are concomitant changes in the mesolimbic dopamine and opioid systems that are consistent with the effects seen in response to most drugs of abuse, although the animals are dependent on a palatable food. Human studies have been conducted using psychometric tools to characterize food addiction (the Yale Food Addiction Scale) (4), with the findings suggesting increased neural activation in reward-related brain regions as a correlate of food addiction score (3). Other work has linked obesity with neural indications of addiction (5). Collectively, on the basis of these and other complementary data it is plausible that an addictive response to palatable food may, in part, promote increased food intake that can sometimes lead to obesity."

Overlapping Neuronal Circuits in Addiction and Obesity: http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/25/1_MeetingAbstracts/71.2

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/51722471_The_addiction_potential_of_hyperpalatable_foods