Dairy Alarmism

WendyTerry420

I haven't seen any health effects that would lead me to avoid dairy. I personally produce so much lactase that people can become lactose tolerant just by being in my domain.

Some people (e.g., vegans) avoid dairy for ethical reasons. Dairy cattle lead short lives, and are subjected to cruel treatment. It's because we have an idea that a gallon of milk should cost $2, not because cruelty makes the milk taste better.

!!! $2 per gallon for milk?!!?! Here in Northern California it's $3.50 to $4 per gallon.

It actually wasn't long ago when milk was $2/gal. Inflation of food prices has been insane lately.

WendyTerry420

Aside from anything else about the health and/or moral benefits and demerits of dairy, calling the practice of animal husbandry "enslavement" trivializes the experience of humans currently and formerly held in bondage.

en·slave·ment
enˈslāvmənt/
noun
noun: enslavement; plural noun: enslavements

1.
the action of making someone a slave; subjugation.

synonyms: slavery, servitude, bondage, forced labor;
exploitation, oppression, bonds, chains, fetters, shackles


check, check, check, check.. how are dairy farms not slavery again? oh wait.. you think its absolutely outrageous when it happens to one species but perfectly fine when it happens to another species, after all.. the latter benefits you.

cows =/= people

SpicesOfLife

lol - "outrageous" hahahahaha!

english isnt my first language, sorry if i chose the wrong word.

Try and build modern civilization without the "slavery" of animals

i was merely replying to the person i quoted, stating that it is in fact slavery.
and, although beside the point, more modern doesnt necessarily mean better.

I'm enslaved 4 dogs as we speak.......I'm going to hell.

im sure you treat your dogs as well as family members and not like objects that you use and abuse, then toss aside when they no longer have anything to give you.

cows =/= people

while that is very perceptive of you, who are we to decide which lives are important and which lives arent? every life is precious and cows are sentient beings who feel pain, fear, loss, anxiety. that the majority of humankind does not acknowledge this does not mean its not true.

you can hate me all you want but the facts remain, so even if you dont care, at least acknowledge them.

Rocbola

I have nothing to say, and i haven't read any of the last 200 posts. I'm just adding a post, because we are only 95 posts away from this thread locking, and having it drop off of my "my topics" page.

SunofaBeach14

lol - "outrageous" hahahahaha!

english isnt my first language, sorry if i chose the wrong word.

Try and build modern civilization without the "slavery" of animals

i was merely replying to the person i quoted, stating that it is in fact slavery.
and, although beside the point, more modern doesnt necessarily mean better.

I'm enslaved 4 dogs as we speak.......I'm going to hell.

im sure you treat your dogs as well as family members and not like objects that you use and abuse, then toss aside when they no longer have anything to give you.

cows =/= people

while that is very perceptive of you, who are we to decide which lives are important and which lives arent? every life is precious and cows are sentient beings who feel pain, fear, loss, anxiety. that the majority of humankind does not acknowledge this does not mean its not true.

you can hate me all you want but the facts remain, so even if you dont care, at least acknowledge them.

Can cows act ethically?

From where do your ethics come?

On what basis did you make the decision that every life is precious?

From where do you derive your authority?

Strokingdiction

Aside from anything else about the health and/or moral benefits and demerits of dairy, calling the practice of animal husbandry "enslavement" trivializes the experience of humans currently and formerly held in bondage.

en·slave·ment
enˈslāvmənt/
noun
noun: enslavement; plural noun: enslavements

1.
the action of making someone a slave; subjugation.

synonyms: slavery, servitude, bondage, forced labor;
exploitation, oppression, bonds, chains, fetters, shackles


check, check, check, check.. how are dairy farms not slavery again? oh wait.. you think its absolutely outrageous when it happens to one species but perfectly fine when it happens to another species, after all.. the latter benefits you.

So I grew some tomatoes last year and kept their babies. I then sliced into their guts and harvested their seeds. I forced my plants to grown where I want them to, when I want them to and then I force them to produce as much as they can until the poor parent plant is exhausted. I let it freeze to death when the first fall frost hits.

Oh, and I will sometimes eat their babies only moments after ripping them from the nurturing embrace of the parent.

I've begun the cycle again this year of forced growth, maturation and death. I look forward to gathering the fruits of my slaving ways.

If those dairy cows only knew how good they had it.

tigersword

Cattle are sentient? Really? No. Anthropomorphizing an animal doesn't make it human. Also, if having to choose between a cow or a human being, the human being wins every time. Cows have been created by human beings specifically for the role they play in our society, and yes, I mean created. Cows didn't exist until humans created them.

ublanchard

Aside from anything else about the health and/or moral benefits and demerits of dairy, calling the practice of animal husbandry "enslavement" trivializes the experience of humans currently and formerly held in bondage.

en·slave·ment
enˈslāvmənt/
noun
noun: enslavement; plural noun: enslavements

1.
the action of making someone a slave; subjugation.

synonyms: slavery, servitude, bondage, forced labor;
exploitation, oppression, bonds, chains, fetters, shackles


check, check, check, check.. how are dairy farms not slavery again? oh wait.. you think its absolutely outrageous when it happens to one species but perfectly fine when it happens to another species, after all.. the latter benefits you.

I don't know what to say to you right now because you're asking how I can stand something that is different because it's different.
But, uh, this definition might help in parsing the definition you provided for enslavement:

some·one
ˈsəmˌwən
pronoun
pronoun: someone; pronoun: some-one

1. an unknown or unspecified person; some person.
"there's someone at the door"

2.a person of importance or authority.
"a small-time lawyer keen to be someone"

Not to put to fine a point on it but enslavement does not apply to cows by the dictionary definition *you* provided (which I think you did in order to be snarky to me, not helpful, because you know I am familiar with the concept if you read my comment.).

Mini_horse_lover

It is intended for baby cows, not humans. you're an adult, time to get off the tit.

Strokingdiction

It is intended for baby cows, not humans. you're an adult, time to get off the tit.

Not one single food on this planet is intended for human consumption except human breast milk. I guess we all need to stay on the tit if we're to follow your logic.

Life in your world would certainly be interesting.

mycupyourcake

High fat dairy consumption is actually linked to some types of cancer.

http://www.oncologynutrition.org/erfc/healthy-nutrition-now/dairy-and-ovarian-cancer/

snazzyjazzy21

.

Strokingdiction

High fat dairy consumption is actually linked to some types of cancer.

http://www.oncologynutrition.org/erfc/healthy-nutrition-now/dairy-and-ovarian-cancer/

Here's a direct quote from the article you linked:

Does dairy increase or decrease the risk? There is no clear answer

FortWildernessLoopy

I like my moo cow milk, and cheese (goat and cow), and ice cream, cream cheese, and milk chocolate...and cream soups and screw it, I LOVE DAIRY! I tend to ignore whatever the latest fad is and just eat a balanced diet. Should you eat (drink) milk as your entire diet...probably not but since you are a rational adult and know that most food in moderation is just hunky dory, I would continue to drink milk and eat yummy dairy products .

BTW, I will say this about Fat, Carbs, Eggs, Peanuts, Protein and whatever new evil food they come up with to demonize and make you eat rice cakes. I didn't get fat drinking milk, I got fat twin fisting donuts.

SuperShell0812

Dairy is fine if your body produces the enzyme lactase. The very recent evolution of the ability to digest dairy products in adulthood is fascinating... this trait has evolved in populations with a long history of dairy farming/herding, e.g. Europeans, Masai (in Africa)... what's most interesting is that this trait evolved at least twice, i.e. separately in both those populations, and it may be the case that it's evolved separately in other dairy/herding populations (the alternative is that gene flow between populations resulted in the trait spreading from one population to another,but it's been demonstrated in scientific studies that the European mutation and Masai mutation for digesting dairy as adults are different and arose separately).

Anyway, whether you find that kind of thing interesting or not, the ability to digest lactose is quite closely tied to ethnic origin (although it's not 100% because of gene flow and archaic genes sticking around) so if your ancestors over the last few thousand years were dairy farmers or herders, chances are you can digest dairy just fine, and there's no reason to avoid it. If your ancestors from this time period didn't have anything to do with dairy, then there's a high probability that you can't digest dairy and in that case you should avoid it. But usually people who are lactose intolerant know about it without being told this information due to getting sick when they eat dairy.

Dairy allergy is separate to lactose intolerance and while I'd love to know the evolutionary history of allergy (which is probably a defence against parasitic infection) I don't know much about it or examples of any particular populations it evolved in. But if you're allergic to milk that's another reason not to drink it.

Unfortunately there's a lot of pseudoscience against milk because both the vegan crowd and the paleo crowd hate on it. There are few things that these two groups agree on, but hatred of dairy products is one. And both groups will tell you "milk is for baby cows not for humans" they also both tend to ignore or be unaware of the fact that humans are highly adaptable in terms of diet, and the ability to digest dairy products has evolved in populations with a long enough history of dairy farming/herding.

I, personally, am from the British Isles and the Britain a history of dairy farming going back at least 5000 years; I can digest dairy just fine and will continue to consume dairy products

:drinker: @ dairy products and the lactase persistence gene






tl;dr: if dairy makes you sick don't eat/drink it, if it doesn't and you like it then eat/drink it

I agree but have to admit it's really strange to be using the milk of another species. No one would want to drink human milk beyond infancy but no one bats an eye about cows milk that's considered totally normal lol

Strokingdiction

Dairy is fine if your body produces the enzyme lactase. The very recent evolution of the ability to digest dairy products in adulthood is fascinating... this trait has evolved in populations with a long history of dairy farming/herding, e.g. Europeans, Masai (in Africa)... what's most interesting is that this trait evolved at least twice, i.e. separately in both those populations, and it may be the case that it's evolved separately in other dairy/herding populations (the alternative is that gene flow between populations resulted in the trait spreading from one population to another,but it's been demonstrated in scientific studies that the European mutation and Masai mutation for digesting dairy as adults are different and arose separately).

Anyway, whether you find that kind of thing interesting or not, the ability to digest lactose is quite closely tied to ethnic origin (although it's not 100% because of gene flow and archaic genes sticking around) so if your ancestors over the last few thousand years were dairy farmers or herders, chances are you can digest dairy just fine, and there's no reason to avoid it. If your ancestors from this time period didn't have anything to do with dairy, then there's a high probability that you can't digest dairy and in that case you should avoid it. But usually people who are lactose intolerant know about it without being told this information due to getting sick when they eat dairy.

Dairy allergy is separate to lactose intolerance and while I'd love to know the evolutionary history of allergy (which is probably a defence against parasitic infection) I don't know much about it or examples of any particular populations it evolved in. But if you're allergic to milk that's another reason not to drink it.

Unfortunately there's a lot of pseudoscience against milk because both the vegan crowd and the paleo crowd hate on it. There are few things that these two groups agree on, but hatred of dairy products is one. And both groups will tell you "milk is for baby cows not for humans" they also both tend to ignore or be unaware of the fact that humans are highly adaptable in terms of diet, and the ability to digest dairy products has evolved in populations with a long enough history of dairy farming/herding.

I, personally, am from the British Isles and the Britain a history of dairy farming going back at least 5000 years; I can digest dairy just fine and will continue to consume dairy products

:drinker: @ dairy products and the lactase persistence gene






tl;dr: if dairy makes you sick don't eat/drink it, if it doesn't and you like it then eat/drink it

I agree but have to admit it's really strange to be using the milk of another species. No one would want to drink human milk beyond infancy but no one bats an eye about cows milk that's considered totally normal lol

How does eating the flesh, the unborn embryos or the seeds of another species ok but milk is out of the question?

Explain that logic to me, please!

tigersword

Dairy is fine if your body produces the enzyme lactase. The very recent evolution of the ability to digest dairy products in adulthood is fascinating... this trait has evolved in populations with a long history of dairy farming/herding, e.g. Europeans, Masai (in Africa)... what's most interesting is that this trait evolved at least twice, i.e. separately in both those populations, and it may be the case that it's evolved separately in other dairy/herding populations (the alternative is that gene flow between populations resulted in the trait spreading from one population to another,but it's been demonstrated in scientific studies that the European mutation and Masai mutation for digesting dairy as adults are different and arose separately).

Anyway, whether you find that kind of thing interesting or not, the ability to digest lactose is quite closely tied to ethnic origin (although it's not 100% because of gene flow and archaic genes sticking around) so if your ancestors over the last few thousand years were dairy farmers or herders, chances are you can digest dairy just fine, and there's no reason to avoid it. If your ancestors from this time period didn't have anything to do with dairy, then there's a high probability that you can't digest dairy and in that case you should avoid it. But usually people who are lactose intolerant know about it without being told this information due to getting sick when they eat dairy.

Dairy allergy is separate to lactose intolerance and while I'd love to know the evolutionary history of allergy (which is probably a defence against parasitic infection) I don't know much about it or examples of any particular populations it evolved in. But if you're allergic to milk that's another reason not to drink it.

Unfortunately there's a lot of pseudoscience against milk because both the vegan crowd and the paleo crowd hate on it. There are few things that these two groups agree on, but hatred of dairy products is one. And both groups will tell you "milk is for baby cows not for humans" they also both tend to ignore or be unaware of the fact that humans are highly adaptable in terms of diet, and the ability to digest dairy products has evolved in populations with a long enough history of dairy farming/herding.

I, personally, am from the British Isles and the Britain a history of dairy farming going back at least 5000 years; I can digest dairy just fine and will continue to consume dairy products

:drinker: @ dairy products and the lactase persistence gene






tl;dr: if dairy makes you sick don't eat/drink it, if it doesn't and you like it then eat/drink it

I agree but have to admit it's really strange to be using the milk of another species. No one would want to drink human milk beyond infancy but no one bats an eye about cows milk that's considered totally normal lol

Why is it strange? We eat all manners of different species, and all different parts of those species. We are humans, we are the apex predators, due to the fact that we've developed technology to overcome our inherent weaknesses. We eat honey, which is bee vomit. We drink milk from cows, goats, yaks, and pretty much any animal that can be milked. Buffalo mozzarella isn't called that because it's from New York, it's because it's made from buffalo milk. We eat what we can derive nourishment from, which in the case of our incredibly adaptable system, is pretty much anything we can get our hands on.

SuperShell0812

Dairy is fine if your body produces the enzyme lactase. The very recent evolution of the ability to digest dairy products in adulthood is fascinating... this trait has evolved in populations with a long history of dairy farming/herding, e.g. Europeans, Masai (in Africa)... what's most interesting is that this trait evolved at least twice, i.e. separately in both those populations, and it may be the case that it's evolved separately in other dairy/herding populations (the alternative is that gene flow between populations resulted in the trait spreading from one population to another,but it's been demonstrated in scientific studies that the European mutation and Masai mutation for digesting dairy as adults are different and arose separately).

Anyway, whether you find that kind of thing interesting or not, the ability to digest lactose is quite closely tied to ethnic origin (although it's not 100% because of gene flow and archaic genes sticking around) so if your ancestors over the last few thousand years were dairy farmers or herders, chances are you can digest dairy just fine, and there's no reason to avoid it. If your ancestors from this time period didn't have anything to do with dairy, then there's a high probability that you can't digest dairy and in that case you should avoid it. But usually people who are lactose intolerant know about it without being told this information due to getting sick when they eat dairy.

Dairy allergy is separate to lactose intolerance and while I'd love to know the evolutionary history of allergy (which is probably a defence against parasitic infection) I don't know much about it or examples of any particular populations it evolved in. But if you're allergic to milk that's another reason not to drink it.

Unfortunately there's a lot of pseudoscience against milk because both the vegan crowd and the paleo crowd hate on it. There are few things that these two groups agree on, but hatred of dairy products is one. And both groups will tell you "milk is for baby cows not for humans" they also both tend to ignore or be unaware of the fact that humans are highly adaptable in terms of diet, and the ability to digest dairy products has evolved in populations with a long enough history of dairy farming/herding.

I, personally, am from the British Isles and the Britain a history of dairy farming going back at least 5000 years; I can digest dairy just fine and will continue to consume dairy products

:drinker: @ dairy products and the lactase persistence gene






tl;dr: if dairy makes you sick don't eat/drink it, if it doesn't and you like it then eat/drink it

I agree but have to admit it's really strange to be using the milk of another species. No one would want to drink human milk beyond infancy but no one bats an eye about cows milk that's considered totally normal lol

Why is it strange? We eat all manners of different species, and all different parts of those species. We are humans, we are the apex predators, due to the fact that we've developed technology to overcome our inherent weaknesses. We eat honey, which is bee vomit. We drink milk from cows, goats, yaks, and pretty much any animal that can be milked. Buffalo mozzarella isn't called that because it's from New York, it's because it's made from buffalo milk. We eat what we can derive nourishment from, which in the case of our incredibly adaptable system, is pretty much anything we can get our hands on.

Just because we do it and make it normal doesn't negate the whole weirdness of the whole thing lol. Milk is meant for babies and when they grow up practically all mammals aside from those humans with the lactose tolerance mutation lose the ability to digest lactose. So yes being able to drink milk beyond infancy isn't the norm and is weird. And from another species...yeah. If there was a story about a mother breast feeding her 13 year old son that would make the news, but a cow nope lol. I`m not saying we shouldn't have dairy because it's weird just that it's weird lol. And humans are omnivores why would it be weird to eat meat and plants?

Rocbola

How does eating the flesh, the unborn embryos or the seeds of another species ok but milk is out of the question?

Explain that logic to me, please!

They're all gross.

_John_

How does eating the flesh, the unborn embryos or the seeds of another species ok but milk is out of the question?

Explain that logic to me, please!

They're all gross.

You would refuse to eat sunflower seeds because that's "gross"?