Is 'eating at deficit' enough?
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And I don't believe they'd be serving anything healthy in those places either
They don't serve meat and vegetables at Brazilian steakhouses? I could've sworn the pounds of meat and vegetables I ate came from somewhere.....
I also washed it down with wine and Caramel Pecan Cheesecake.
Cooking methods and what's added to the food determine it's nutritional and health giving value. Vegetables that are charred and drowning in vegetable oil are no longer the health giving foods they were when they were fresh.
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Cool, let us know when you collect your Nobel prize.Everyone is different. Personally carbs are my downfall. I can eat clean and lose all kinds of weight even over my caloric intake. The best ides is to do a body fat % and see what works for you. Losing weight isn't a cookie cutter situation. Some people need different way to attack it.
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I see your icecream edit. The point is based on CICO I can make the numbers work and wouldn't need a lecture on "body fueling" foods to lose weight. Once a week, once a day, nothing but icecream, once every three weeks. It wouldn't matter so long as I was eating all of it in a caloric deficit.
And your point is? Different foods affect how many calories you expend. Fact. That's it. What I said about the ice cream related to emotional attachment.
"My point is" that "emotional attachment" or not, if you eat your icecream in a caloric deficit, you will lose an appreciable amount of weight. Would you have slightly better results eating only "healthy" foods? Maybe. But it's generally not sustainable over time, and not even necessary. So why complicate things when you can adjust your own individual lifestyle slightly and still lose weight?
I don't know what your point is anymore. I did not say that emotional attachment means you can't create a deficit of lose weight. And as I said, I don't know why it would be unsustainable to take eating ice cream from once a day to once a week. Honestly, if it's unsustainable to do that then you have a real bad relationship with food. Once you have gotten out of the habit of eating ice cream every day then it becomes second nature NOT to eat it all the time and that becomes your new way of eating and therefore it is sustainable because you have accepted your new lifestyle. How on earth is that unsustainable?? I would agree that it would be unsustainable to never ever eat ice cream again for most people, but to cut down on it? No. Any excuse is just that, an excuse. And you know why I believe it is sustainable? Because I have done it myself. I wanted to improve my health, I realised the junk had to go, I changed my eating habits from having dessert every night to once a week. I thought I'd never be able to stop having sugar in my tea but guess what? I'm now used to tea without sugar and I don't need it. Ever. So please explain to me how my new way of eating is unsustainable if I am perfectly happy with it?0 -
And I don't believe they'd be serving anything healthy in those places either
They don't serve meat and vegetables at Brazilian steakhouses? I could've sworn the pounds of meat and vegetables I ate came from somewhere.....
I also washed it down with wine and Caramel Pecan Cheesecake.
Cooking methods and what's added to the food determine it's nutritional and health giving value. Vegetables that are charred and drowning in vegetable oil are no longer the health giving foods they were when they were fresh.
Oh see, that's perfect because I was referring to the salad bar.
As far are what is added to the food... you're telling me that adding in additional flavors, spices, oils and such makes the food devoid of nutrients then?
She kinda lost what little credit I was giving her reading through this thread with that last statement. Makes no sense.
It makes no sense? Really? Have you ever read up about nutrients that are destroyed in the process of cooking? Or that eating foods that are full of carcinogens are worse for you than when cooked lightly? Shame that people can be so ignorant.0 -
Enjoying your meal is an emotional attachment now?? No. An emotional attachment is eating when you are not hungry, not being able to stop, eating foods that are highly rewarding. A bit of meat, fat and veg is enjoyable for many when eating out of hunger but it is not highly rewarding and does not make you want to eat and eat and eat. People don't binge on meat, veg and healthy fat. Also, we have tastebuds for a reason. Nature made it so when something tastes good we eat more of it to fuel our bodies and it can be stored in times of famine. If we couldn't taste anything or food tasted like nothing, we would eat only enough to stave off the hunger and that's not how our bodies work.
No, I didn't say CICO doesn't matter. I said different foods have different effects on the body and determine different rates of expenditure. So assuming you can eat 2000 calories of any food and expend the same amount is far from the truth. Calories in and calories out are what determines weight loss, yes, but the foods you eat determine what your calories out will be - aside from added activity of course.
Also, I really don't see the problem with cutting down on that ice cream from every day to once a week. New habits can be formed. Do you really NEED ice cream every day? Once you accept that it is a desire based on emotional attachment and nourishing your body is the most important thing, you will no longer feel the need to have it every day and it won't be unsustainable if you don't want it every day anymore.
You've clearly never been taken on a date to a Brazilian steakhouse.
I have to get in a 10 mile run before I go anywhere near a Brazilian Steakhouse. I can do some SERIOUS damage there.0 -
I see your icecream edit. The point is based on CICO I can make the numbers work and wouldn't need a lecture on "body fueling" foods to lose weight. Once a week, once a day, nothing but icecream, once every three weeks. It wouldn't matter so long as I was eating all of it in a caloric deficit.
And your point is? Different foods affect how many calories you expend. Fact. That's it. What I said about the ice cream related to emotional attachment.
"My point is" that "emotional attachment" or not, if you eat your icecream in a caloric deficit, you will lose an appreciable amount of weight. Would you have slightly better results eating only "healthy" foods? Maybe. But it's generally not sustainable over time, and not even necessary. So why complicate things when you can adjust your own individual lifestyle slightly and still lose weight?
I don't know what your point is anymore. I did not say that emotional attachment means you can't create a deficit of lose weight. And as I said, I don't know why it would be unsustainable to take eating ice cream from once a day to once a week. Honestly, if it's unsustainable to do that then you have a real bad relationship with food. Once you have gotten out of the habit of eating ice cream every day then it becomes second nature NOT to eat it all the time and that becomes your new way of eating and therefore it is sustainable because you have accepted your new lifestyle. How on earth is that unsustainable?? I would agree that it would be unsustainable to never ever eat ice cream again for most people, but to cut down on it? No. Any excuse is just that, an excuse. And you know why I believe it is sustainable? Because I have done it myself. I wanted to improve my health, I realised the junk had to go, I changed my eating habits from having dessert every night to once a week. I thought I'd never be able to stop having sugar in my tea but guess what? I'm now used to tea without sugar and I don't need it. Ever. So please explain to me how my new way of eating is unsustainable if I am perfectly happy with it?
So you adjusted your own lifestyle the way you wanted and lost weight? Congrats! It seemed like you were saying that you needed to get rid of items that are frequently demonized as "bad foods" in order to lose weight. You don't. And if you still eat delicious foods like icecream then we're on the same page 0 -
I can eat clean and lose all kinds of weight even over my caloric intake.
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And I don't believe they'd be serving anything healthy in those places either
They don't serve meat and vegetables at Brazilian steakhouses? I could've sworn the pounds of meat and vegetables I ate came from somewhere.....
I also washed it down with wine and Caramel Pecan Cheesecake.
Cooking methods and what's added to the food determine it's nutritional and health giving value. Vegetables that are charred and drowning in vegetable oil are no longer the health giving foods they were when they were fresh.
Oh see, that's perfect because I was referring to the salad bar.
As far are what is added to the food... you're telling me that adding in additional flavors, spices, oils and such makes the food devoid of nutrients then?
A salad that is drowning in vegetable oil or mayonnaise is far less healthy than one made at home with a little olive oil. What an absolutely pointless argument. I said people don't binge on healthy foods such as a home made meal with healthy fats, vegetables and meat. I don't think at any point I referred to "healthy" foods that you find in fast food restaurants that are nothing of the sort.0 -
And I don't believe they'd be serving anything healthy in those places either
They don't serve meat and vegetables at Brazilian steakhouses? I could've sworn the pounds of meat and vegetables I ate came from somewhere.....
I also washed it down with wine and Caramel Pecan Cheesecake.
Cooking methods and what's added to the food determine it's nutritional and health giving value. Vegetables that are charred and drowning in vegetable oil are no longer the health giving foods they were when they were fresh.
Oh see, that's perfect because I was referring to the salad bar.
As far are what is added to the food... you're telling me that adding in additional flavors, spices, oils and such makes the food devoid of nutrients then?
A salad that is drowning in vegetable oil or mayonnaise is far less healthy than one made at home with a little olive oil. What an absolutely pointless argument. I said people don't binge on healthy foods such as a home made meal with healthy fats, vegetables and meat. I don't think at any point I referred to "healthy" foods that you find in fast food restaurants that are nothing of the sort.
First, who the hell puts mayonnaise on their salads?
Second, you're under the assumption that I had littered it with some sort of fatty dressing.
Third, I don't think the quality of meat at a Brazilian Steakhouse is anywhere near what would you'd find at a fast food restaurant. And even then, it still makes no difference. As long as you're consistent with meeting your macro goals and calories it will not impact the outcome as it relates to body composition.
BRB switching to eating lettuce only like a rabbit so i can be considered healthy.0 -
I see your icecream edit. The point is based on CICO I can make the numbers work and wouldn't need a lecture on "body fueling" foods to lose weight. Once a week, once a day, nothing but icecream, once every three weeks. It wouldn't matter so long as I was eating all of it in a caloric deficit.
And your point is? Different foods affect how many calories you expend. Fact. That's it. What I said about the ice cream related to emotional attachment.
"My point is" that "emotional attachment" or not, if you eat your icecream in a caloric deficit, you will lose an appreciable amount of weight. Would you have slightly better results eating only "healthy" foods? Maybe. But it's generally not sustainable over time, and not even necessary. So why complicate things when you can adjust your own individual lifestyle slightly and still lose weight?
I don't know what your point is anymore. I did not say that emotional attachment means you can't create a deficit of lose weight. And as I said, I don't know why it would be unsustainable to take eating ice cream from once a day to once a week. Honestly, if it's unsustainable to do that then you have a real bad relationship with food. Once you have gotten out of the habit of eating ice cream every day then it becomes second nature NOT to eat it all the time and that becomes your new way of eating and therefore it is sustainable because you have accepted your new lifestyle. How on earth is that unsustainable?? I would agree that it would be unsustainable to never ever eat ice cream again for most people, but to cut down on it? No. Any excuse is just that, an excuse. And you know why I believe it is sustainable? Because I have done it myself. I wanted to improve my health, I realised the junk had to go, I changed my eating habits from having dessert every night to once a week. I thought I'd never be able to stop having sugar in my tea but guess what? I'm now used to tea without sugar and I don't need it. Ever. So please explain to me how my new way of eating is unsustainable if I am perfectly happy with it?
So you adjusted your own lifestyle the way you wanted and lost weight? Congrats! It seemed like you were saying that you needed to get rid of items that are frequently demonized as "bad foods" in order to lose weight. You don't. And if you still eat delicious foods like icecream then we're on the same page
Yes actually I did need to get rid of those foods to lose weight because they wreak havoc on my blood sugar and make me feel like crap and they do not keep hunger at bay. The highly rewarding nature of them made the emotional attachment with food even stronger and I could not lower my food intake whilst they were in my diet every day. So when I switched to having them once a week at most I felt better, lost weight easier and had plenty more energy. Now I will have something once a week if I feel like it, but I absolutely do not NEED it in my diet. I don't see any benefit to having highly rewarding foods in your diet every day that are so low in nutrients and just make you want to eat more and more and more when I can replace them with nutrient dense foods that will naturally satisfy me.0 -
Some things that stuck out to me when I skimmed the article:
That participants were selected based on their ability to stick to a strict diet. 11 out of 40 some odd participants didn't complete the diet. And while results on TEE and REE are given, I don't necessarily see one on total weight lost among the three groups as well as initial weights, calories consumed , etc. I probably just missed it - likely included in one of the attached tables - because this is pretty important information to provide in a study such as this.
I like this portion of the article, I think it's consistent with sustainability concerns previously mentioned on this thread:
"Main study limitations are the relatively short duration of the test diets and the difficulty extrapolating findings from a feeding study to a more natural setting, in which individuals consume self-selected diets. In particular, the very low-carbohydrate diet involved more severe carbohydrate restriction than would be feasible for many individuals over the long term. Therefore, the study may overestimate the magnitude of effects that could be obtained by carbohydrate restriction in the context of a behavioral intervention. In addition, participants in the study were selected for ability to comply with the rigors of a 7-month feeding protocol and may not represent overweight and obese individuals in the general population. Although we could not assess participant adherence during the outpatient phases of the study, good maintenance of weight loss throughout the test phase provides some reassurance on this point"0 -
If you look through the forums there is always talk about 'eating at deficit'. But, really it's more than just eating fewer calories than you burn. It's also about what you eat. Your body needs fuel. You can eat garbage and be at a calorie deficit, but you aren't going to feel good and it will probably hinder your weight loss/fitness goals.
Pay attention to those macro's and work on adding veggies and lean protein. Drink lots of water and move your body. If you 'eat at deficit' and the scale still isn't moving then it may not be how much you are eating but what you are eating that is holding you back.
Nice post! Go and be awesome today!0 -
And I don't believe they'd be serving anything healthy in those places either
They don't serve meat and vegetables at Brazilian steakhouses? I could've sworn the pounds of meat and vegetables I ate came from somewhere.....
I also washed it down with wine and Caramel Pecan Cheesecake.
Cooking methods and what's added to the food determine it's nutritional and health giving value. Vegetables that are charred and drowning in vegetable oil are no longer the health giving foods they were when they were fresh.
Oh see, that's perfect because I was referring to the salad bar.
As far are what is added to the food... you're telling me that adding in additional flavors, spices, oils and such makes the food devoid of nutrients then?
A salad that is drowning in vegetable oil or mayonnaise is far less healthy than one made at home with a little olive oil. What an absolutely pointless argument. I said people don't binge on healthy foods such as a home made meal with healthy fats, vegetables and meat. I don't think at any point I referred to "healthy" foods that you find in fast food restaurants that are nothing of the sort.
Who the hell puts mayonnaise on their salads?
BRB switching to eating lettuce only like a rabbit so i can be considered healthy.
Mayonnaise contains highly processed vegetable oil. That is not healthy. So if you're gorging on coleslaw you are not binging on healthy foods. You can do what you want to your salads, that doesn't mean it's healthy if it's 300 calories of fat and causing inflammation in your body.0 -
After seeing how everyone was jumping on the OP, I was going to step in and try to give some validation to some of the points she made.
But I decided to check out her diary first, and NAHHHHH, she is on her own with this one.
In my opinion, Shakeology would fall under the garbage category. And I think even Jonny -'McDonalds'-than eats more veggies than OP does,
I don't see many jumping but because of this post I did look at her diary...
I want to find that bacon that is 69 calories for 1.5 slices...:laugh:
The kind I usually get is 80 calories for 2 slices
Yes I'm in here defending OP :smokin:
That must be those extra-thick slices. :bigsmile:0 -
And I don't believe they'd be serving anything healthy in those places either
They don't serve meat and vegetables at Brazilian steakhouses? I could've sworn the pounds of meat and vegetables I ate came from somewhere.....
I also washed it down with wine and Caramel Pecan Cheesecake.
Cooking methods and what's added to the food determine it's nutritional and health giving value. Vegetables that are charred and drowning in vegetable oil are no longer the health giving foods they were when they were fresh.
Oh see, that's perfect because I was referring to the salad bar.
As far are what is added to the food... you're telling me that adding in additional flavors, spices, oils and such makes the food devoid of nutrients then?
A salad that is drowning in vegetable oil or mayonnaise is far less healthy than one made at home with a little olive oil. What an absolutely pointless argument. I said people don't binge on healthy foods such as a home made meal with healthy fats, vegetables and meat. I don't think at any point I referred to "healthy" foods that you find in fast food restaurants that are nothing of the sort.
First, who the hell puts mayonnaise on their salads?
Second, you're under the assumption that I had littered it with some sort of fatty dressing.
Third, I don't think the quality of meat at a Brazilian Steakhouse is anywhere near what would you'd find at a fast food restaurant. And even then, it still makes no difference. As long as you're consistent with meeting your macro goals and calories it will not impact the outcome as it relates to body composition.
BRB switching to eating lettuce only like a rabbit so i can be considered healthy.
Were you "binging" on that salad?? Were you uncontrollably binging on a lb of steak? Come on.0 -
I see your icecream edit. The point is based on CICO I can make the numbers work and wouldn't need a lecture on "body fueling" foods to lose weight. Once a week, once a day, nothing but icecream, once every three weeks. It wouldn't matter so long as I was eating all of it in a caloric deficit.
And your point is? Different foods affect how many calories you expend. Fact. That's it. What I said about the ice cream related to emotional attachment.
"My point is" that "emotional attachment" or not, if you eat your icecream in a caloric deficit, you will lose an appreciable amount of weight. Would you have slightly better results eating only "healthy" foods? Maybe. But it's generally not sustainable over time, and not even necessary. So why complicate things when you can adjust your own individual lifestyle slightly and still lose weight?
I don't know what your point is anymore. I did not say that emotional attachment means you can't create a deficit of lose weight. And as I said, I don't know why it would be unsustainable to take eating ice cream from once a day to once a week. Honestly, if it's unsustainable to do that then you have a real bad relationship with food. Once you have gotten out of the habit of eating ice cream every day then it becomes second nature NOT to eat it all the time and that becomes your new way of eating and therefore it is sustainable because you have accepted your new lifestyle. How on earth is that unsustainable?? I would agree that it would be unsustainable to never ever eat ice cream again for most people, but to cut down on it? No. Any excuse is just that, an excuse. And you know why I believe it is sustainable? Because I have done it myself. I wanted to improve my health, I realised the junk had to go, I changed my eating habits from having dessert every night to once a week. I thought I'd never be able to stop having sugar in my tea but guess what? I'm now used to tea without sugar and I don't need it. Ever. So please explain to me how my new way of eating is unsustainable if I am perfectly happy with it?
So you adjusted your own lifestyle the way you wanted and lost weight? Congrats! It seemed like you were saying that you needed to get rid of items that are frequently demonized as "bad foods" in order to lose weight. You don't. And if you still eat delicious foods like icecream then we're on the same page
Yes actually I did need to get rid of those foods to lose weight because they wreak havoc on my blood sugar and make me feel like crap and they do not keep hunger at bay. The highly rewarding nature of them made the emotional attachment with food even stronger and I could not lower my food intake whilst they were in my diet every day. So when I switched to having them once a week at most I felt better, lost weight easier and had plenty more energy. Now I will have something once a week if I feel like it, but I absolutely do not NEED it in my diet. I don't see any benefit to having highly rewarding foods in your diet every day that are so low in nutrients and just make you want to eat more and more and more when I can replace them with nutrient dense foods that will naturally satisfy me.
I must say this is a very empowering post. You do you, girl! 0 -
Yes actually I did need to get rid of those foods to lose weight because they wreak havoc on my blood sugar and make me feel like crap and they do not keep hunger at bay. The highly rewarding nature of them made the emotional attachment with food even stronger and I could not lower my food intake whilst they were in my diet every day. So when I switched to having them once a week at most I felt better, lost weight easier and had plenty more energy. Now I will have something once a week if I feel like it, but I absolutely do not NEED it in my diet. I don't see any benefit to having highly rewarding foods in your diet every day that are so low in nutrients and just make you want to eat more and more and more when I can replace them with nutrient dense foods that will naturally satisfy me.
I eat chocolate nearly every morning, and it makes me very happy. I feel like the little chocolate chips are cheering as I pour them into my yogurt; happy that they made the cut and are still on my meal plan. I've tried to keep up with the argument but have failed...what were you getting at? Eating foods you like but don't need means you won't lose weight?0 -
Anytime you start proclaiming something is always "healthier" it's pretty likely that you're overreaching. A salad heavy in olive oil may be worse for someone that's looking to lose weight and doesn't have the calories to spare, but if that salad is your one meal of the day and you need that olive oil to get sufficient calories, suddenly you're better off with the oil to get your calories (and plenty of meat for your daily protein as well). Since a dainty little salad with a spritz of oil could put you at an overly aggressive caloric deficit, the richer salad is the "healthier" option in that hypo. And that's the problem with generically talking about "healthier" foods - unless you define "healthy" foods as foods that are more likely to fit the nutritional needs of the average person, it really is a pretty meaningless term.
Honestly I don't disagree with the emphasis on fresh foods, cooking can of course affect the nutritional content of the food (but that doesn't mean I eat everything raw), macros are important... but at the end of the day, caloric intake is still the most important factor for weight management and anything beyond that is really just optimizing your diet.0 -
Some things that stuck out to me when I skimmed the article:
That participants were selected based on their ability to stick to a strict diet. 11 out of 40 some odd participants didn't complete the diet. And while results on TEE and REE are given, I don't necessarily see one on total weight lost among the three groups as well as initial weights, calories consumed , etc. I probably just missed it - likely included in one of the attached tables - because this is pretty important information to provide in a study such as this.
I like this portion of the article, I think it's consistent with sustainability concerns previously mentioned on this thread:
"Main study limitations are the relatively short duration of the test diets and the difficulty extrapolating findings from a feeding study to a more natural setting, in which individuals consume self-selected diets. In particular, the very low-carbohydrate diet involved more severe carbohydrate restriction than would be feasible for many individuals over the long term. Therefore, the study may overestimate the magnitude of effects that could be obtained by carbohydrate restriction in the context of a behavioral intervention. In addition, participants in the study were selected for ability to comply with the rigors of a 7-month feeding protocol and may not represent overweight and obese individuals in the general population. Although we could not assess participant adherence during the outpatient phases of the study, good maintenance of weight loss throughout the test phase provides some reassurance on this point"
Yeah well I wasn't claiming low carb is the way to go for everyone, was I? I was showing that different diets affect everyone differently. I did not link to it to show anything about weight loss, just that those diets were changing each person's RMR and TDEE because that's what's being contested here. And yes, the tables all show the different calories consumed and burned etc.0 -
Again, "realistically" if you were in it for the long haul and logging properly, changes are you're 50 calories off some days (over, as well as under). Denying any emotional attachment to food is when the restrictions come in. If anything, after eating whatever I want the foods become normal and don't necessarily have some immense pull.
As for 2000 calories of twinkies being processed differently than 2000 calories of veggies and thus causing different rates of loss for similar individuals, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Everyone has told you that people with medical conditions are more or less out of scope for this discussion. I mean think of a person whom even when eating veggies laden with sodium swells up the following morning. Are veggies then bad? Is that what you're saying that if you have a medical condition you probably can't or shouldn't eat certain foods in order to have a lower scale weight? If so, agreed!!!
Well I wasn't saying you're 50 cals off because you're not logging correctly, but because you cannot determine how your body is processing each type of food and some days you might expend more whilst other days you expend less. If foods have no immense pull to you then that's great for you. Not everyone has an emotional attachment to food and those that don't will find it easier to lose weight.
Saying we'll have to agree to disagree on how the body processes different foods is saying you disagree with science, because what I've said is supported by science. I quoted a study which proves that peoples BMRs and TDEE changes depending on what they eat, which directly disproves what you believe. But hey, I'm only studying nutrition and been researching for years on the subject so what do I know? Honestly, it's up to you what you wish to believe because beliefs are just that - beliefs, not fact. Anyone who wants to deny facts is absolutely entitled to do so, I just hope they won't be passing around advice to others on the subject...
TEF is minimimal and has been show to be so with respect to increasing metabolism...
unless you manage to find the study that you mentioned early and never posted….
I did post it, you obviously missed it. But here it is again: http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1199154
^^ So it looks like that someone who has a varied diet with a "moderate" macro ratio, TEF changes would be negligible.0
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