Sugar and processed food good or bad?

lindsey1979

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

I didn't say either of these choices are good or bad.

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

Jonny -- if you go back and you look, you'll see I never presented the false dichotomy. I merely responded to it -- presented by DamePiglet in response to Thomaszabel's informative post.

Her original reply:

"Some people never touch restaurant or eat pre-packaged foods - always home cooked - but still don't get the nutrients they need because the foods they cook and eat are not nutrient dense.

Most of those people would be better off eating canned fruits and vegetables, frozen processed meals, etc. than they are eating their own home-cooked meals. Many would probably have better control of their waistlines, too."

lindsey1979

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

Why? Because not everyone has the time to cook. I realize you said for those that have the time...) however, where I live, there are lots of parent's working full time jobs, kids to soccer or whatever practice, this, that and the other, that when they get home they don't have the time to prep all the fresh stuff they might have bought (yes they could do it on the weekend, provided they didn't have to work then also, or have other obligations).

There are tons of single parents who work two jobs. Or single homeowners for that matter. I work one job, but I get up early to lift all the heavy things, I work until 6, I walk my dogs for an hour, by the time I get home, the LAST thing I want to do is take an hour to cook. I want something, quick, that will hit my macros/micros and call it a day.

I absolutely agree with you on that -- time and effort is a huge consideration. And people make choices taking into account all such factors. But, it was specifically in response to Dame Piglet's post which implied that some who always home cook would be better off eating canned fruits/veggies, frozen processed meals, etc.

DamePiglet's original post:

"Some people never touch restaurant or eat pre-packaged foods - always home cooked - but still don't get the nutrients they need because the foods they cook and eat are not nutrient dense.

Most of those people would be better off eating canned fruits and vegetables, frozen processed meals, etc. than they are eating their own home-cooked meals. Many would probably have better control of their waistlines, too."

geebusuk

Cheesecake isn't healthy for an underweight, normal weight, or overweight person. Point period blank. It's extremely fattening and full of sugar.

You are what you eat. Sure, a slice of cheesecake once in a blue moon won't kill you but the more you eat these foods, the more you want them. Continue with this theory of yours that it's okay to eat these foods on the regular as long as they fit your goals, and before you know it, you'll be overweight and diabetic one day.

So, in my example of someone that is lacking fat and needs more body fat to function properly, you're suggesting "fattening" is an unhealthy food selection?

Also. \o/ I'm cheesecake \o/,

My food diary is open. Note the food I ate today. 1750 calories of an entire sweet cheesecake. 500 calories of 3x ice cream cones.

Guess what, I've been eating like this since 1st december and have lost 40lb.
I've also run an ultramarathon and got the best body composition I've ever had (I'm sure the lighting helped with my profile pic, but note that it was taken at the end of a 20 week 2/lb week (1000 calorie average daily deficit) cut.
Probably about the fittist I've been - all health markers are good and so on. It turns out that if you make an effort to move your body, you can get your body pretty 'healthy' so you don't have to be nearly as careful with your food as overweight and underfit people may do - see link lower down.

Being full of sugar, specifically sucrose is exactly the sort of food I want when it was eaten around weightlifting. I also did a total of about 2 hours cycling today - about half of that with an extra 15kg of dog food on the bike. I'd say replenishing muscle glycogen with lots of (non-fructose) sugar is a very sensible and 'healthy' choice.

Oh and please, if you believe I'm wrong, provide some citations to show why.
Saying "point period blank" rather shows a lack of reasoned thought.

Here's some from my side for sugar and why it's not unhealthy for me:
http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html

maz504

Good. Delicious, in fact!

QuietBloom

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

What are the these mysterious 'better ingredients' you speak of? If one can hit their nutrient and macro goals eating processed foods, there is nothing 'better' about the ingredients of home cooked meals. Flour is flour, salt is salt, baking soda is baking soda, on and on.

jonnythan

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

I didn't say either of these choices are good or bad.

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

Jonny -- if you go back and you look, you'll see I never presented the false dichotomy. I merely responded to it -- presented by DamePiglet in response to Thomaszabel's informative post.

Her original reply:

"Some people never touch restaurant or eat pre-packaged foods - always home cooked - but still don't get the nutrients they need because the foods they cook and eat are not nutrient dense.

Most of those people would be better off eating canned fruits and vegetables, frozen processed meals, etc. than they are eating their own home-cooked meals. Many would probably have better control of their waistlines, too."

You still presented it that way. She said people were better off one way than another, and you replied by presenting only two options as if they were the only ones.

Regardless, it doesn't matter whether people are choosing "better ingredients" (whatever that means) or eating "processed food." What matters is whether they're consuming the right nutrients.

That's the name of the game.

You are consistently missing the critical point of nutrient intake.

_HeartsOnFire_

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

I didn't say either of these choices are good or bad.

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

Jonny -- if you go back and you look, you'll see I never presented the false dichotomy. I merely responded to it -- presented by DamePiglet in response to Thomaszabel's informative post.

Her original reply:

"Some people never touch restaurant or eat pre-packaged foods - always home cooked - but still don't get the nutrients they need because the foods they cook and eat are not nutrient dense.

Most of those people would be better off eating canned fruits and vegetables, frozen processed meals, etc. than they are eating their own home-cooked meals. Many would probably have better control of their waistlines, too."

You still presented it that way. She said people were better off one way than another, and you replied by presenting only two options as if they were the only ones.

Regardless, it doesn't matter whether people are choosing "better ingredients" (whatever that means) or eating "processed food." What matters is whether they're consuming the right nutrients.

That's the name of the game.

You are consistently missing the critical point of nutrient intake.

I insisted my mom get canned veggies and frozen stuff, so she would start getting her nutrients! She wasn't getting half (if that) before. She's since lost 23 lbs and no longer pre-diabetic.

geebusuk

Here's my take from doing lots of research from documentaries, the interwebs, and reading. Of course, there can always be bias in anything you read or watch, but you can follow up and do your own research.

I stay away from processed foods as much as possible, but I still eat them occasionally. Most processed foods are so changed, that the essential vitamins and minerals that are in the original version of the basic ingredients get removed. In addition, remember that food companies are in the business to make money. Therefore a lot of what they add to these foods, such as food coloring, sweeteners, etc. are unnecessary. Some additives are put in with the express purpose of making you want more - basically addicting you to their product.

Seeing that you've done the research, could you provide the citations, please, so the rest of us can understand it, too?

Also - nice food makes me want it more.
So, the horrible, evil people that make food... make it taste nice. The utter, utter bar-stewards! How dare they make me want to eat their tasty food! Should have mixed in kale, spinnach and quinoa so only wannabe hippies pretend to like it :P.

FitMe758

I don't think most food is bad. For me, sugar is not good because of family medical history.
Also, the more sugar I eat, the more I crave. But I am not about to go into a sugar free diet either.

Processed food? It all depends, are you talking Twinkies? then yes. Are you talking the hamburger bun on my Bison burger? Well, *I* don't think its bad. Not the best choice and I wouldn't make it part of my daily food intake. But once in a while, who cares?

Processed food is such a wide term, it can mean sprouted bread, it can mean Little Debbie snacks, it can mean a deep fried Oreo...

Yet, technically deep fried pork skin is NOT processed. Is it "good" because it is not processed? Not for my cholesterol.
But my point it is that I don't think there's a black and white answer.

Fullsterkur_woman

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

She's a lawyer. She knows damn good and well what a false dichotomy is and how to employ one, and all the other logical fallacies too, I'm sure.

lindsey1979

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

What are the these mysterious 'better ingredients' you speak of? If one can hit their nutrient and macro goals eating processed foods, there is nothing 'better' about the ingredients of home cooked meals. Flour is flour, salt is salt, baking soda is baking soda, on and on.

True, but home-cooked meals don't have some of the additives that many processed foods do. For example, how many people do you know that cook with high fructose corn syrup rather than sugar or honey? In my entire life, I've never seen a recipe call for high fructose corn syrup -- even those that call for karo syrup don't use high fructose corn syrup. And, yet you'll see HFCS in a lot of processed foods. It's fairly common.

jonnythan

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

She's a lawyer. She knows damn good and well what a false dichotomy is and how to employ one, and all the other logical fallacies too, I'm sure.

Who is a lawyer? Lindsey1979?

jonnythan

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

What are the these mysterious 'better ingredients' you speak of? If one can hit their nutrient and macro goals eating processed foods, there is nothing 'better' about the ingredients of home cooked meals. Flour is flour, salt is salt, baking soda is baking soda, on and on.

True, but home-cooked meals don't have some of the additives that many processed foods do. For example, how many people do you know that cook with high fructose corn syrup rather than sugar or honey? In my entire life, I've never seen a recipe call for high fructose corn syrup -- even those that call for karo syrup don't use high fructose corn syrup. And, yet you'll see HFCS in a lot of processed foods. It's fairly common.

The implication being that HFCS has different health effects than sucrose.

Fullsterkur_woman

Yet, technically deep fried pork skin is NOT processed. Is it "good" because it is not processed? Not for my cholesterol.

Why would pork rinds be bad for your cholesterol? Do you have a familial tendency to turn dietary cholesterol into serum cholesterol?

DamePiglet

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

I didn't say either of these choices are good or bad.

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

Jonny -- if you go back and you look, you'll see I never presented the false dichotomy. I merely responded to it -- presented by DamePiglet in response to Thomaszabel's informative post.

Her original reply:

"Some people never touch restaurant or eat pre-packaged foods - always home cooked - but still don't get the nutrients they need because the foods they cook and eat are not nutrient dense.

Most of those people would be better off eating canned fruits and vegetables, frozen processed meals, etc. than they are eating their own home-cooked meals. Many would probably have better control of their waistlines, too."

You still presented it that way. She said people were better off one way than another, and you replied by presenting only two options as if they were the only ones.

Regardless, it doesn't matter whether people are choosing "better ingredients" (whatever that means) or eating "processed food." What matters is whether they're consuming the right nutrients.

That's the name of the game.

You are consistently missing the critical point of nutrient intake.

I insisted my mom get canned veggies and frozen stuff, so she would start getting her nutrients! She wasn't getting half (if that) before. She's since lost 23 lbs and no longer pre-diabetic.

Exactly.
And Mom can get canned and frozen fruits and veges from a dollar store or even a convenience store in January.

lindsey1979

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

I didn't say either of these choices are good or bad.

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

Jonny -- if you go back and you look, you'll see I never presented the false dichotomy. I merely responded to it -- presented by DamePiglet in response to Thomaszabel's informative post.

Her original reply:

"Some people never touch restaurant or eat pre-packaged foods - always home cooked - but still don't get the nutrients they need because the foods they cook and eat are not nutrient dense.

Most of those people would be better off eating canned fruits and vegetables, frozen processed meals, etc. than they are eating their own home-cooked meals. Many would probably have better control of their waistlines, too."

You still presented it that way. She said people were better off one way than another, and you replied by presenting only two options as if they were the only ones.

Regardless, it doesn't matter whether people are choosing "better ingredients" (whatever that means) or eating "processed food." What matters is whether they're consuming the right nutrients.

That's the name of the game.

You are consistently missing the critical point of nutrient intake.

No, I'm not Jonny. I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.

Only on MFP forums is this even a topic for debate. Crazy.

lindsey1979

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

She's a lawyer. She knows damn good and well what a false dichotomy is and how to employ one, and all the other logical fallacies too, I'm sure.

And that's why the whole idea was so ridiculous from the get-go from DamePiglet. But some of you don't want to acknowledge that. So be it.

_John_

I'm afraid I've never watched Swamp People. But, you're saying that were you live, you actually recommend that people increase their intake of processed foods, eating at restaurants, frozen meals rather than making better nutritional choices in ingredients for their home cooked meals?

You present a false dichotomy. The point is to get the right nutrients, not choose better ingredients in home cooked meals vs eating more processed foods.

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to choose better ingredients in home cooked meals (for those that already have the time and inclination to cook) rather than supplementing with more processed foods?

What are the these mysterious 'better ingredients' you speak of? If one can hit their nutrient and macro goals eating processed foods, there is nothing 'better' about the ingredients of home cooked meals. Flour is flour, salt is salt, baking soda is baking soda, on and on.

True, but home-cooked meals don't have some of the additives that many processed foods do. For example, how many people do you know that cook with high fructose corn syrup rather than sugar or honey? In my entire life, I've never seen a recipe call for high fructose corn syrup -- even those that call for karo syrup don't use high fructose corn syrup. And, yet you'll see HFCS in a lot of processed foods. It's fairly common.

I'll just say that I would LOVE if they didn't idiot proof Splenda so that idiots wouldn't use too much. That would cut out a LOT of additives in my calorie free sweetened products.

DamePiglet

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

She's a lawyer. She knows damn good and well what a false dichotomy is and how to employ one, and all the other logical fallacies too, I'm sure.

Who is a lawyer? Lindsey1979?

Lindsey has said that she has some kind of law background in previous forum posts.

Fullsterkur_woman

I said you presented a false dichotomy. That means that you presented two options as if one had to choose one or the other when the reality is that there are other options. This is a type of logical fallacy.

She's a lawyer. She knows damn good and well what a false dichotomy is and how to employ one, and all the other logical fallacies too, I'm sure.

Who is a lawyer? Lindsey1979?

Am I misremembering? For some reason, I wanted to say she's mentioned degrees in biology, physics, and law. NTTAWWT... I have one in Russian and am working on ones in astronomy, physics, Spanish and Linguistics. Everybody needs a hobby...