Sugar and processed food good or bad?
Replies
-
nope, not an outlier.I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.
Now this all came from the MFP Databases...
Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1
Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1
Honestly, not much difference.
But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.
Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.
Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.
I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.
But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.
Correction: the original statement ONLY, included processed frozen meals, YOU added in the part about eating at restaurants. The frozen meals may or may not have additives, but that would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis, but the point still remains that being processed or frozen does not mean that they are inherently worse.
Fair enough -- my mistake on the restaurants -- I thought that came up.
And, yes, they aren't inherently worse all the time. But do you really think frozen processed dinners are, as a general rule, on par with home cooked meals? And if the home cooked meals are worse in nutrient level, would you recommend eating processed frozen dinners rather than making changes in the ingredients for the home cooked meals?0 -
nope, not an outlier.I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.
Now this all came from the MFP Databases...
Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1
Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1
Honestly, not much difference.
But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.
Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.
Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.
I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.
But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.
Home-cooked does not always mean better nutrient values. That's the point that DamePiglet was trying to make. If you don't have a lot of experience with food deserts and underserved populations, you probably wouldn't understand the point she is trying to make. Even with additives, preservatives, processing, and restaurants, the foods can still be a better option. You're looking at this from the standpoint of someone who has had lots of advantages in life, including educational and financial resources.
The populations she is referring to are limited not only by education and finances, but location and living conditions. Not everyone has tons of space to store fresh foods in their home, nor do they live in a place with lots of variety. Canned foods can be stored damn near anywhere in a home and don't need to be eaten right away. They also go on sale and have coupons for them, unlike fresh foods. Telling people to incorporate more fresh foods into their home-cooking is all well and good but if they cannot afford the foods, have no place to put them, and have limited access, it doesn't do them much good. Canned and frozen are better than no fruits and veggies at all.
I live in the wealthiest county in the nation, and I send prepackaged foods into school with my daughter for kids in her class who have either forgotten their snack or who have food insecurity and don't always have a snack to bring. I always send something that has servings of fruits and/or veggies in it. I would hate to think that someone somewhere is getting their back up about me giving kids who would otherwise not have something to eat "bad" foods because simply because it's processed. The issue is not as black and white as people here like to make it out to be.0 -
True story:One week worth of cheesecake isn't going to turn you into a diabetic or give you high triglycerides. It happens over many years. Sure, you may be fine now, but that's not to say you'll be fine in 10-15 years.
(...)
I'd much rather eat an avocado or pistachios that actually have nutritional benefits.
While cheesecake is nice, I can take it or leave it and never overeat it. Give me pistachios and I'll eat them until I have open cuts on my fingers. Could it therefore not be argued that cheesecake is a better choice for me?
As for avocados, they're gross.
I'm not in biology, but I know that feel, bro.I had a 5th year pre-med student (who had already been accepted in to a med school *shudders*) in a functional morphology class shocked to learn that the muscles we were studying were the same things she was eating in her hamburger.0 -
JD and bachelors in integrative biology.
"The Department of Integrative Biology (IB) offers Undergradate and Graduate academic programs as well as Faculty Research that focuses on the integration of structure and function that influences the biology, ecology, and evolution of organisms. It investigates integration at all levels of organization from molecules to the biosphere, and in all branches of the tree of life: plants, animals, fungi, and microbes."
Doesn't sound all that relevant, especially considering it's an undergraduate degree.
Johnny, she didn't understand the peer-review process for journal articles, but tried to explain it (incorrectly) to another.
Also, I tried to explain how she was using the phrase "per se" incorrectly, but she was having no part of that either.
In my n=2 experience with UC Berkeley undergraduates (which obviously means nothing to anyone but me), the curriculum or standards are somewhat lacking.
How much experience do you have with their JDs and IB students? Because that's the only that really matters, and last time I checked, we were ranked in the top 5 for biological sciences and top 10 for law school (5th for law reviews).
Nice post, DamePiglet. Classy.
Lindsey, you told another poster that peer reviewed articles are reviewed AFTER publication, not before. I came behind you to clear that misstatement up. Forgive me, but I find that your claim to have been instrumental in the development of them may not be entirely believable.
As for "per se": using the phrase in the context of "in and of itself", as you often did, is just pretentious sentence fluff. In that context, it can be used after ANY AND EVERY noun and therefore, loses all meaning. It is YOU that doesn't understand "intrinsically." "Per se" should be used to mean "at its basis or core" - as in, "Humans are animals per se, but are much more complex than any other."
And as for "keeping it classy", I did say that my experience is meaningful to only me.0 -
nope, not an outlier.I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.
Now this all came from the MFP Databases...
Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1
Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1
Honestly, not much difference.
But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.
Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.
Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.
I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.
But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.
Correction: the original statement ONLY, included processed frozen meals, YOU added in the part about eating at restaurants. The frozen meals may or may not have additives, but that would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis, but the point still remains that being processed or frozen does not mean that they are inherently worse.
Fair enough -- my mistake on the restaurants -- I thought that came up.
And, yes, they aren't inherently worse all the time. But do you really think frozen processed dinners are, as a general rule, on par with home cooked meals? And if the home cooked meals are worse in nutrient level, would you recommend eating processed frozen dinners rather than making changes in the ingredients for the home cooked meals?
Neither is inherently better than the other.
Your repeated attempts to get people to say home cooked meals are better are tiring and silly.0 -
Processed foods are the most easily digestible foods, while sugar provides the most readily available energy. That's why kids have no limit to the amount of sweetness they can handle, for example- their bodies crave sugar because they need that quick accessible energy to grow and support their activity level. It's because of these qualities that both types of food have contributed to our evolution and growth as a species!
That's why the only foods I define as bad are the ones that contain non-food items... like dyes, sand, wax... *shudders*.
What foods have sand and wax?
Look up silicon dioxide in food. That's sand. And wax (and mineral oil, I should add) are often used as stabilizers or to add shine to candy and stuff. I mean, these things don't stop me from eating certain foods nor do I feel guilty about consuming them haha, but if I can find sandless, waxless, dyeless whatever alternatives, I tend to choose them instead.0 -
nope, not an outlier.I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.
Now this all came from the MFP Databases...
Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1
Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1
Honestly, not much difference.
But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.
Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.
Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.
I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.
But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.
Home-cooked does not always mean better nutrient values. That's the point that DamePiglet was trying to make. If you don't have a lot of experience with food deserts and underserved populations, you probably wouldn't understand the point she is trying to make. Even with additives, preservatives, processing, and restaurants, the foods can still be a better option. You're looking at this from the standpoint of someone who has had lots of advantages in life, including educational and financial resources.
The populations she is referring to are limited not only by education and finances, but location and living conditions. Not everyone has tons of space to store fresh foods in their home, nor do they live in a place with lots of variety. Canned foods can be stored damn near anywhere in a home and don't need to be eaten right away. They also go on sale and have coupons for them, unlike fresh foods. Telling people to incorporate more fresh foods into their home-cooking is all well and good but if they cannot afford the foods, have no place to put them, and have limited access, it doesn't do them much good. Canned and frozen are better than no fruits and veggies at all.
I live in the wealthiest county in the nation, and I send prepackaged foods into school with my daughter for kids in her class who have either forgotten their snack or who have food insecurity and don't always have a snack to bring. I always send something that has servings of fruits and/or veggies in it. I would hate to think that someone somewhere is getting their back up about me giving kids who would otherwise not have something to eat "bad" foods because simply because it's processed. The issue is not as black and white as people here like to make it out to be.
Thank you for articulating this so well for me.0 -
nope, not an outlier.I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.
Now this all came from the MFP Databases...
Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1
Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1
Honestly, not much difference.
But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.
Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.
Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.
I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.
But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.
Correction: the original statement ONLY, included processed frozen meals, YOU added in the part about eating at restaurants. The frozen meals may or may not have additives, but that would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis, but the point still remains that being processed or frozen does not mean that they are inherently worse.
Fair enough -- my mistake on the restaurants -- I thought that came up.
And, yes, they aren't inherently worse all the time. But do you really think frozen processed dinners are, as a general rule, on par with home cooked meals? And if the home cooked meals are worse in nutrient level, would you recommend eating processed frozen dinners rather than making changes in the ingredients for the home cooked meals?
Nope, cause I think they taste like crap (except for Marie Calendar's pot pies mmmmm), but that's me. I think a person should do what works best for them and if the easiest way for them to add in veggies to the rest of their home cooked meal is to grab a bag of frozen, that's what they should do. If they can get a more balanced meal for lunch by using a frozen dish than just taking in leftovers, that's what they should do.0 -
Answer to the actual question.. "Good or bad to eat" I would say.. GOOD. They taste bloody remarkable. If I were saying for my health... in Moderation would be my answer.0
-
Not your strongest pot-stirring post, OP. Better luck next time. :flowerforyou:0
-
nope, not an outlier.I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.
Now this all came from the MFP Databases...
Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1
Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1
Honestly, not much difference.
But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.
Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.
Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.
I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.
But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.
Home-cooked does not always mean better nutrient values. That's the point that DamePiglet was trying to make. If you don't have a lot of experience with food deserts and underserved populations, you probably wouldn't understand the point she is trying to make. Even with additives, preservatives, processing, and restaurants, the foods can still be a better option. You're looking at this from the standpoint of someone who has had lots of advantages in life, including educational and financial resources.
The populations she is referring to are limited not only by education and finances, but location and living conditions. Not everyone has tons of space to store fresh foods in their home, nor do they live in a place with lots of variety. Canned foods can be stored damn near anywhere in a home and don't need to be eaten right away. They also go on sale and have coupons for them, unlike fresh foods. Telling people to incorporate more fresh foods into their home-cooking is all well and good but if they cannot afford the foods, have no place to put them, and have limited access, it doesn't do them much good. Canned and frozen are better than no fruits and veggies at all.
I live in the wealthiest county in the nation, and I send prepackaged foods into school with my daughter for kids in her class who have either forgotten their snack or who have food insecurity and don't always have a snack to bring. I always send something that has servings of fruits and/or veggies in it. I would hate to think that someone somewhere is getting their back up about me giving kids who would otherwise not have something to eat "bad" foods because simply because it's processed. The issue is not as black and white as people here like to make it out to be.
Sooo much this. And then when a poster takes it that one step further and implies such foods are potentially causing cancer even thought there is no evidence for such a statement really gets me riled.0 -
Processed foods are the most easily digestible foods, while sugar provides the most readily available energy. That's why kids have no limit to the amount of sweetness they can handle, for example- their bodies crave sugar because they need that quick accessible energy to grow and support their activity level. It's because of these qualities that both types of food have contributed to our evolution and growth as a species!
That's why the only foods I define as bad are the ones that contain non-food items... like dyes, sand, wax... *shudders*.
What foods have sand and wax?
Look up silicon dioxide in food. That's sand. And wax (and mineral oil, I should add) are often used as stabilizers or to add shine to candy and stuff. I mean, these things don't stop me from eating certain foods nor do I feel guilty about consuming them haha, but if I can find sandless, waxless, dyeless whatever alternatives, I tend to choose them instead.
No wonder I loved the taste of sand on the beach as a kid! Seriously though, silica is a natural, highly prevalent mineral and not something to be afraid of ingesting. Mineral oil (also completely natural) has been used as a laxative for decades and hasn't hurt anyone as far as I know.0 -
Processed foods are the most easily digestible foods, while sugar provides the most readily available energy. That's why kids have no limit to the amount of sweetness they can handle, for example- their bodies crave sugar because they need that quick accessible energy to grow and support their activity level. It's because of these qualities that both types of food have contributed to our evolution and growth as a species!
That's why the only foods I define as bad are the ones that contain non-food items... like dyes, sand, wax... *shudders*.
What foods have sand and wax?
Look up silicon dioxide in food. That's sand. And wax (and mineral oil, I should add) are often used as stabilizers or to add shine to candy and stuff. I mean, these things don't stop me from eating certain foods nor do I feel guilty about consuming them haha, but if I can find sandless, waxless, dyeless whatever alternatives, I tend to choose them instead.
No wonder I loved the taste of sand on the beach as a kid! Seriously though, silica is a natural, highly prevalent mineral and not something to be afraid of ingesting. Mineral oil (also completely natural) has been used as a laxative for decades and hasn't hurt anyone as far as I know.
Thanks a lot! Now I want to picnic on the beach!0 -
Processed foods are the most easily digestible foods, while sugar provides the most readily available energy. That's why kids have no limit to the amount of sweetness they can handle, for example- their bodies crave sugar because they need that quick accessible energy to grow and support their activity level. It's because of these qualities that both types of food have contributed to our evolution and growth as a species!
That's why the only foods I define as bad are the ones that contain non-food items... like dyes, sand, wax... *shudders*.
What foods have sand and wax?
Look up silicon dioxide in food. That's sand. And wax (and mineral oil, I should add) are often used as stabilizers or to add shine to candy and stuff. I mean, these things don't stop me from eating certain foods nor do I feel guilty about consuming them haha, but if I can find sandless, waxless, dyeless whatever alternatives, I tend to choose them instead.
No wonder I loved the taste of sand on the beach as a kid! Seriously though, silica is a natural, highly prevalent mineral and not something to be afraid of ingesting. Mineral oil (also completely natural) has been used as a laxative for decades and hasn't hurt anyone as far as I know.
So they're not scary or harmful... but they're still not food.0 -
Processed foods are the most easily digestible foods, while sugar provides the most readily available energy. That's why kids have no limit to the amount of sweetness they can handle, for example- their bodies crave sugar because they need that quick accessible energy to grow and support their activity level. It's because of these qualities that both types of food have contributed to our evolution and growth as a species!
That's why the only foods I define as bad are the ones that contain non-food items... like dyes, sand, wax... *shudders*.
What foods have sand and wax?
Look up silicon dioxide in food. That's sand. And wax (and mineral oil, I should add) are often used as stabilizers or to add shine to candy and stuff. I mean, these things don't stop me from eating certain foods nor do I feel guilty about consuming them haha, but if I can find sandless, waxless, dyeless whatever alternatives, I tend to choose them instead.
No wonder I loved the taste of sand on the beach as a kid! Seriously though, silica is a natural, highly prevalent mineral and not something to be afraid of ingesting. Mineral oil (also completely natural) has been used as a laxative for decades and hasn't hurt anyone as far as I know.
So they're not scary or harmful... but they're still not food.
Actually, we injest a lot of stuff that isn't 'food', like dirt and other stuff (was recently reminded of all the bugs I have swallowed during running/cycling in my day). But if you want to leave those things out, I'm not one to judge! :drinker:0 -
JD and bachelors in integrative biology.
"The Department of Integrative Biology (IB) offers Undergradate and Graduate academic programs as well as Faculty Research that focuses on the integration of structure and function that influences the biology, ecology, and evolution of organisms. It investigates integration at all levels of organization from molecules to the biosphere, and in all branches of the tree of life: plants, animals, fungi, and microbes."
Doesn't sound all that relevant, especially considering it's an undergraduate degree.
Johnny, she didn't understand the peer-review process for journal articles, but tried to explain it (incorrectly) to another.
Also, I tried to explain how she was using the phrase "per se" incorrectly, but she was having no part of that either.
In my n=2 experience with UC Berkeley undergraduates (which obviously means nothing to anyone but me), the curriculum or standards are somewhat lacking.
How much experience do you have with their JDs and IB students? Because that's the only that really matters, and last time I checked, we were ranked in the top 5 for biological sciences and top 10 for law school (5th for law reviews).
Nice post, DamePiglet. Classy.
Lindsey, you told another poster that peer reviewed articles are reviewed AFTER publication, not before. I came behind you to clear that misstatement up. Forgive me, but I find that your claim to have been instrumental in the development of them may not be entirely believable.
As for "per se": using the phrase in the context of "in and of itself", as you often did, is just pretentious sentence fluff. In that context, it can be used after ANY AND EVERY noun and therefore, loses all meaning. It is YOU that doesn't understand "intrinsically." "Per se" should be used to mean "at its basis or core" - as in, "Humans are animals per se, but are much more complex than any other."
And as for "keeping it classy", I did say that my experience is meaningful to only me.
Okay, so now my use of per se is correct, but just "pretentious sentence fluff". Oftentimes it is used that way because people want to differentiate between specifics and general statements. For example, someone can say "he's not a jerk per se, but just is really annoying me right now because of X". It's the exact same usage.
In my example, since you prefer intrinsically: I didn't know what his personal psychological issues are intrinsically (i.e. inferiority complex, paranoid delusions, meglomania, etc.), but they are significant.
Call it pretentious sentence fluff or whatever you want, but it's still correct usage. It's terribly ironic that you complain about me being condescending and whatnot, but go out of your way to correct my grammar. It's only too funny that you were actually incorrect in your correction. Talk about pretentious.
Oh, and bringing up all this stuff from past threads, especially as personal attacks and insults, is against the forum rules.0 -
Raw honey comb has wax in it... it's nature's food-grade wax. And it's pretty friggin' awesome.Processed foods are the most easily digestible foods, while sugar provides the most readily available energy. That's why kids have no limit to the amount of sweetness they can handle, for example- their bodies crave sugar because they need that quick accessible energy to grow and support their activity level. It's because of these qualities that both types of food have contributed to our evolution and growth as a species!
That's why the only foods I define as bad are the ones that contain non-food items... like dyes, sand, wax... *shudders*.
What foods have sand and wax?
Look up silicon dioxide in food. That's sand. And wax (and mineral oil, I should add) are often used as stabilizers or to add shine to candy and stuff. I mean, these things don't stop me from eating certain foods nor do I feel guilty about consuming them haha, but if I can find sandless, waxless, dyeless whatever alternatives, I tend to choose them instead.
No wonder I loved the taste of sand on the beach as a kid! Seriously though, silica is a natural, highly prevalent mineral and not something to be afraid of ingesting. Mineral oil (also completely natural) has been used as a laxative for decades and hasn't hurt anyone as far as I know.
So they're not scary or harmful... but they're still not food.0 -
Processed foods are the most easily digestible foods, while sugar provides the most readily available energy. That's why kids have no limit to the amount of sweetness they can handle, for example- their bodies crave sugar because they need that quick accessible energy to grow and support their activity level. It's because of these qualities that both types of food have contributed to our evolution and growth as a species!
That's why the only foods I define as bad are the ones that contain non-food items... like dyes, sand, wax... *shudders*.
What foods have sand and wax?
Look up silicon dioxide in food. That's sand. And wax (and mineral oil, I should add) are often used as stabilizers or to add shine to candy and stuff. I mean, these things don't stop me from eating certain foods nor do I feel guilty about consuming them haha, but if I can find sandless, waxless, dyeless whatever alternatives, I tend to choose them instead.
No wonder I loved the taste of sand on the beach as a kid! Seriously though, silica is a natural, highly prevalent mineral and not something to be afraid of ingesting. Mineral oil (also completely natural) has been used as a laxative for decades and hasn't hurt anyone as far as I know.
Thanks a lot! Now I want to picnic on the beach!
Actually, I still sneak a grain or two of sand in my mouth and crunch on them even to this day (don't tell anyone).0 -
nope, not an outlier.I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.
Now this all came from the MFP Databases...
Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1
Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1
Honestly, not much difference.
But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.
Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.
Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.
I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.
But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.
Correction: the original statement ONLY, included processed frozen meals, YOU added in the part about eating at restaurants. The frozen meals may or may not have additives, but that would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis, but the point still remains that being processed or frozen does not mean that they are inherently worse.
Fair enough -- my mistake on the restaurants -- I thought that came up.
And, yes, they aren't inherently worse all the time. But do you really think frozen processed dinners are, as a general rule, on par with home cooked meals? And if the home cooked meals are worse in nutrient level, would you recommend eating processed frozen dinners rather than making changes in the ingredients for the home cooked meals?
Neither is inherently better than the other.
Your repeated attempts to get people to say home cooked meals are better are tiring and silly.
Fine. If you think frozen processed meals are the same as home cooked meals as a general rule, that's your right to do so. We'll just have to agree to disagree.0 -
Boy howdy, that's true. Vets too. You should see the crap they try to peddle as cat food.*
No. Nonononono.I had a 5th year pre-med student (who had already been accepted in to a med school *shudders*) in a functional morphology class shocked to learn that the muscles we were studying were the same things she was eating in her hamburger.
I refuse to believe this. Where did I put that gasoline and book of matches?!
To be fair, most doctors don't learn much about nutrition -- as I think many of us can attest as we've gotten a huge range of advice from medical professions on it. But, I also wouldn't accuse a doctor of having a general misunderstanding of biology.
*Sez the woman who makes raw homemade cat food for her cats but won't cook for herself.0 -
nope, not an outlier.I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.
Now this all came from the MFP Databases...
Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1
Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1
Honestly, not much difference.
But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.
Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.
Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.
Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.
I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.
But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.
Correction: the original statement ONLY, included processed frozen meals, YOU added in the part about eating at restaurants. The frozen meals may or may not have additives, but that would have to be evaluated on a case by case basis, but the point still remains that being processed or frozen does not mean that they are inherently worse.
Fair enough -- my mistake on the restaurants -- I thought that came up.
And, yes, they aren't inherently worse all the time. But do you really think frozen processed dinners are, as a general rule, on par with home cooked meals? And if the home cooked meals are worse in nutrient level, would you recommend eating processed frozen dinners rather than making changes in the ingredients for the home cooked meals?
Neither is inherently better than the other.
Your repeated attempts to get people to say home cooked meals are better are tiring and silly.
Fine. If you think frozen processed meals are the same as home cooked meals as a general rule, that's your right to do so. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Nice attempt at a cheap rhetorical trick, intentionally misstating your opponent's argument.
I've said all along that there is no general rule.0 -
Fair enough -- my mistake on the restaurants -- I thought that came up.
And, yes, they aren't inherently worse all the time. But do you really think frozen processed dinners are, as a general rule, on par with home cooked meals? And if the home cooked meals are worse in nutrient level, would you recommend eating processed frozen dinners rather than making changes in the ingredients for the home cooked meals?
Nope, cause I think they taste like crap (except for Marie Calendar's pot pies mmmmm), but that's me. I think a person should do what works best for them and if the easiest way for them to add in veggies to the rest of their home cooked meal is to grab a bag of frozen, that's what they should do. If they can get a more balanced meal for lunch by using a frozen dish than just taking in leftovers, that's what they should do.
I agree. But to have a better idea of what is better or worse for them, they have to have an idea about some of the objective realities of their choices. And, sure, there is no black-or-white thing, but there are general rules and trends. To me, to say that generally processed frozen dinners are equally healthy to home cooked meals is simply not true. And in the cases where it is true, it seems to make the most sense in substituting better ingredients used in the home cooked meals rather than substitute with frozen processed meals.0 -
Meal one; go to the kitchen and make a cottage pie.Fine. If you think frozen processed meals are the same as home cooked meals as a general rule, that's your right to do so. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Freeze some to eat the next day.
Meal 2: bottom-range ready meal from local supermarket.
I buy two and freeze one, then eat it that one a few days later.
Meal 3: frozen ready meal from the local supermarket.
I eat ready meal.
In this case, the ready meal specifically advertises it's self as "made from kitchen cupboard ingredients".
What is the difference?
Do you think the freezing makes a significant difference?0 -
No food is bad, just be sensible. I'd rather be fat than give up sugar ( chocolate) becasue there IS such a thing as quality of life, and it's possible to have both sugar and( in moderation) processed food and lose 22 lbs., I did.0
-
And a lot more likely to get said 'dirt' and so on from what people describe as 'real food', what with it coming out of the ground pretty recently, by many of the definitions.Actually, we injest a lot of stuff that isn't 'food', like dirt and other stuff (was recently reminded of all the bugs I have swallowed during running/cycling in my day). But if you want to leave those things out, I'm not one to judge! :drinker:0 -
Fair enough -- my mistake on the restaurants -- I thought that came up.
And, yes, they aren't inherently worse all the time. But do you really think frozen processed dinners are, as a general rule, on par with home cooked meals? And if the home cooked meals are worse in nutrient level, would you recommend eating processed frozen dinners rather than making changes in the ingredients for the home cooked meals?
Neither is inherently better than the other.
Your repeated attempts to get people to say home cooked meals are better are tiring and silly.
Fine. If you think frozen processed meals are the same as home cooked meals as a general rule, that's your right to do so. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Nice attempt at a cheap rhetorical trick, intentionally misstating your opponent's argument.
I've said all along that there is no general rule.
That's where we disagree as well then. I think there is a general rule and you don't. On that too, we'll have to agree to disagree.0 -
Does your doctor know that you have pica? :laugh:Actually, I still sneak a grain or two of sand in my mouth and crunch on them even to this day (don't tell anyone).0 -
Fair enough -- my mistake on the restaurants -- I thought that came up.
And, yes, they aren't inherently worse all the time. But do you really think frozen processed dinners are, as a general rule, on par with home cooked meals? And if the home cooked meals are worse in nutrient level, would you recommend eating processed frozen dinners rather than making changes in the ingredients for the home cooked meals?
Neither is inherently better than the other.
Your repeated attempts to get people to say home cooked meals are better are tiring and silly.
Fine. If you think frozen processed meals are the same as home cooked meals as a general rule, that's your right to do so. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Nice attempt at a cheap rhetorical trick, intentionally misstating your opponent's argument.
I've said all along that there is no general rule.
That's where we disagree as well then. I think there is a general rule and you don't. On that too, we'll have to agree to disagree.
What's the general rule? Be specific.0 -
Meal one; go to the kitchen and make a cottage pie.Fine. If you think frozen processed meals are the same as home cooked meals as a general rule, that's your right to do so. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Freeze some to eat the next day.
Meal 2: bottom-range ready meal from local supermarket.
I buy two and freeze one, then eat it that one a few days later.
Meal 3: frozen ready meal from the local supermarket.
I eat ready meal.
In this case, the ready meal specifically advertises it's self as "made from kitchen cupboard ingredients".
What is the difference?
Do you think the freezing makes a significant difference?
I don't think it's the freezing. And I wasn't comparing frozen home-made meals. When DamePiglet used the term "frozen processed meals" -- I was envisioning the type of things you get out of the frozen food aisle as a TV dinner sort of thing. And I believe that many of them have a lot of extra additives -- whether preservatives, other chemicals, added sugar, etc. -- that you wouldn't see in the home cooked equivalent.0 -
FTFY. :flowerforyou:Neither is better than the other per se.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions