Sugar and processed food good or bad?

parkscs

Well that's terrible. I used to think UC Berkeley was a decent institution. But, then again, I've learned over and over again that degrees generally mean very little, and that undergraduate degrees mean virtually nothing whatsoever. I'd never tout my degrees to back my arguments here, even though they are relevant.

At least in this thread, I don't see her throwing around her credentials to back her arguments - people asked what her degrees are in and she volunteered that information. Now people are trying to tear down her degrees (and a top-tier school, which is pretty comical to me) simply, at least from what I can tell, to be spiteful. I don't even disagree with you on foods being "bad," particularly not for people tracking their calories/macros, but the whole attack on her degrees (which were solicited in this thread) and her alma mater is a bit silly.

jonnythan

Eh. She's using her degree as evidence of her knowledge and understanding in this thread.

SugaryLynx

Well, this is the Internet. Bonjour

lindsey1979

JD and bachelors in integrative biology.

"The Department of Integrative Biology (IB) offers Undergradate and Graduate academic programs as well as Faculty Research that focuses on the integration of structure and function that influences the biology, ecology, and evolution of organisms. It investigates integration at all levels of organization from molecules to the biosphere, and in all branches of the tree of life: plants, animals, fungi, and microbes."

Doesn't sound all that relevant, especially considering it's an undergraduate degree.

Really? That doesn't sound all that relative to the general understanding of biology? Not to mention that if you knew much about the program, you'd know that people often take courses in both IB and MCB (molecular and cell biology). Had I had two more MCB course rather than IB courses, then I would have ended up with the MCB degree instead.

And IB courses cover all the major organ systems (if you choose to take them) -- general anatomy, endocrinolgy, histology, etc. You can also focus on other areas that are not related to the human body -- some focus on ecology, animal behavior, population genetics, macro/micro evolution, etc. I personally took a lot of the human body related courses in both IB and MCB as I was considering a MD at the time.

Not relevant at all...C'mon, that's sort of funny.

Well that's terrible. I used to think UC Berkeley was a decent institution. But, then again, I've learned over and over again that degrees generally mean very little, and that undergraduate degrees mean virtually nothing whatsoever. I'd never tout my degrees to back my arguments here, even though they are relevant.

What a shame. And this is why I didn't want to bring it up -- and didn't introduce it myself. You and others did. But your whole assertion that I don't have a general understanding of biology is ludicrous. Just ludicrous.

Lindsey girl, ignore them. This is what they are known for. They do it all day long… put others down to bring themselves up. Just sign off and be the bigger person

I agree with you. But, I don't like when they actually lie -- because that's how misinformation starts. That does really bother me. Thank you for your comment, nonetheless

geebusuk

Full of fat and full of sugar. If you don't see what's wrong with that, I suggest taking a nutrition course. I'd much rather eat an avocado or pistachios that actually have nutritional benefits.

But if you've already had an avocado and pistachios already recently, what nutritional benefits will you get by having more?

I'd suggest that instead you'd get more nutritional benefits from the Cheesecake in that case.

(Presuming cheese cake hasn't also been eating regularly.)

I don't have trouble eating a LOT of food, calorie dense or not - but some people do and for them when they do need to get calories in, calorie dense is likely better.

I can easily eat a hell of a lot of sugar from fruit.
I'd prefer to have less fructose and more sucrose/glucose as the latter is better at refilling muscle glycogen, which I often use a fair bit of, I'd say.

FatFreeFrolicking

Eh. She's using her degree as evidence of her knowledge and understanding in this thread.

:laugh:

Fullsterkur_woman

So what have you done with that undergrad degree in biology, anyway? If I were you I wouldn't advertise that as a major credential if that's as far as it went.

I hope we don't have to *do* anything with our undergrad degrees besides have them, because there's not much money in Russian language and literature.

And I don't think it's fair to characterize it as "advertising". I'm the one that brought up her education, and then she graciously filled in the gaps in response to questions.

I don't agree with her all the time, but I don't think that makes her a "lost cause".

LolBroScience

One week worth of cheesecake isn't going to turn you into a diabetic or give you high triglycerides. It happens over many years. Sure, you may be fine now, but that's not to say you'll be fine in 10-15 years.

1/6 of Sara Lee NY style cheesecake: 490 calories, 30 g fat, 48 g carbs, 32 g sugar. A slice of original cheesecake from The Cheesecake Factory: 710 calories, 48 g fat, 62 g carbs, 36 g sugar. Full of fat and full of sugar. If you don't see what's wrong with that, I suggest taking a nutrition course. I'd much rather eat an avocado or pistachios that actually have nutritional benefits.

Unfortunately you base this off of your caloric needs and your goals. What if someone requires 5,000 calories or so in order to just maintain their weight? Is it just as bad?

kgeyser

I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.

Now this all came from the MFP Databases...

Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1

Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1

Honestly, not much difference.

But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.

nope, not an outlier.

Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value

Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.

Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.

Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.

QueenBishOTUniverse

Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value

Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.

Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.

Well, I think it depends on what you're comparing. If you're only comparing canned veggies to fresh veggies, perhaps. But if you're comparing fresh veggies to all processed foods that contain that veggie, I think it's a considerably different scenario.

For example, even looking just at fruits, a lot of canned fruits (but not all) add extra sugar via syrup or otherwise that you wouldn't get with the fresh fruit. I know we're starting to see more demand for the no-adeed-sugar added variety -- which is great -- but I don't believe that's been the norm historically.

And when you start looking at highly processed foods -- think crackers, cheetos, etc. -- you get a lot of extra ingredients that you wouldn't otherwise consume if you were choosing to home cook with just the main ingredients.

But if you go back to Dame's original assertion:

Some people never touch restaurant or eat pre-packaged foods - always home cooked - but still don't get the nutrients they need because the foods they cook and eat are not nutrient dense.

Most of those people would be better off eating canned fruits and vegetables, frozen processed meals, etc. than they are eating their own home-cooked meals. Many would probably have better control of their waistlines, too. :

then according to this, there is no significant difference between them using canned and frozen items versus the fresh items. Frozen processed meals, consisting of a multitude of ingredients will be highly more variable, but the fact that someone would recommend using canned and frozen instead of fresh, especially if fresh is unavailable or more expensive, to me sounds like perfectly reasonable advice.

Strokingdiction

And when you start looking at highly processed foods -- think crackers, cheetos, etc. -- you get a lot of extra ingredients that you wouldn't otherwise consume if you were choosing to home cook with just the main ingredients.

But with home cooked, you also don't get Cheetos. Your argument is invalid.*
*Does IIFYM, can't remember last time I had Cheetos. MM are kinda hard to F sometimes.

I had the Flamin' hot ones just an hour ago. They are awesome.

Blasphemy! Original or nothing I say. Never mind all that nonsense about person tastes and all that. My sense of tastes should be everyone's sense of taste!

So says dictator, I!

jonnythan

Eh. She's using her degree as evidence of her knowledge and understanding in this thread.

:laugh:

You can laugh but we all remember you touting educational history in a desperate attempt to back up your ridiculous, wrong claims about nutrition.

lindsey1979

Eh. She's using her degree as evidence of her knowledge and understanding in this thread.

No, you told me that I didn't have a general understanding of biology -- and yet I have a degree from a top institution in that very subject matter. And, if you're familiar with advanced degrees in the area, you begin to get very specialized. So unless the discussion was about an actual study/focus of the PhD program, even someone with a such a degree would likely have very little additional knowledge about other areas beyond his/her undergraduate work.

Fullsterkur_woman

One week worth of cheesecake isn't going to turn you into a diabetic or give you high triglycerides. It happens over many years. Sure, you may be fine now, but that's not to say you'll be fine in 10-15 years.

1/6 of Sara Lee NY style cheesecake: 490 calories, 30 g fat, 48 g carbs, 32 g sugar. A slice of original cheesecake from The Cheesecake Factory: 710 calories, 48 g fat, 62 g carbs, 36 g sugar. Full of fat and full of sugar. If you don't see what's wrong with that, I suggest taking a nutrition course. I'd much rather eat an avocado or pistachios that actually have nutritional benefits.

Unfortunately you base this off of your caloric needs and your goals. What if someone requires 5,000 calories or so in order to just maintain their weight? Is it just as bad?

That is gross. What are they, a sumo wrestler?! They should be made to remain in a body cast until their muscles have atrophied such that their caloric needs don't allow them to eat cheesecake all the time.

eric_sg61

One week worth of cheesecake isn't going to turn you into a diabetic or give you high triglycerides. It happens over many years. Sure, you may be fine now, but that's not to say you'll be fine in 10-15 years.

1/6 of Sara Lee NY style cheesecake: 490 calories, 30 g fat, 48 g carbs, 32 g sugar. A slice of original cheesecake from The Cheesecake Factory: 710 calories, 48 g fat, 62 g carbs, 36 g sugar. Full of fat and full of sugar. If you don't see what's wrong with that, I suggest taking a nutrition course. I'd much rather eat an avocado or pistachios that actually have nutritional benefits.

Unfortunately you base this off of your caloric needs and your goals. What if someone requires 5,000 calories or so in order to just maintain their weight? Is it just as bad?

Didn't Martin Berkham aka leangains, write many blog posts about his copious amounts of cheesecake consumption? He also kept at ~5% body fat year round...............so that proves cheesecake is not fattening lol.

wheird

I admit that I havent followed the entire thread, so I cannot be sure that she wasnt bandying her education about to prove her knowledge, but it is pretty ****ty to divert into ad hominems.

Attack the argument. I KNOW most of you are capable of that.

However, Berkley is known for producing hippies, so shame on you, lindsey.

lindsey1979

I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.

Now this all came from the MFP Databases...

Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1

Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1

Honestly, not much difference.

But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.

nope, not an outlier.

Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value

Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.

Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.

Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.

I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.

But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.

FatFreeFrolicking

Eh. She's using her degree as evidence of her knowledge and understanding in this thread.

:laugh:

You can laugh but we all remember you touting educational history in a desperate attempt to back up your ridiculous, wrong claims about nutrition.

Newsflash: You think everyone's wrong unless they agree with you.

wheird

I just believe that you'll get to your nutrient intake with less empty calories and unnecessary, potentially harmfully additives opting for "better ingredients" in home cooked meals than with a bunch of highly processed foods -- at least as a general rule.

Now this all came from the MFP Databases...

Delmonte Canned Green Beans
Calories 20
Sodium 10
Potassium 95
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugars 2
Protein 1

Fresh Green Beans
Calories 17
Sodium 4
Potassium 115
Carbs 4
Fiber 2
Sugar 2
Protein 1

Honestly, not much difference.

But, do most processed foods contain just the fruit/vegetable, salt and water? I think it is likely a significant outlier.

nope, not an outlier.

Abstract: The first of a two-part review of the recent and classical literature reveals that loss of nutrients in fresh products during storage and cooking may be more substantial than commonly perceived. Depending on the commodity, freezing and canning processes may preserve nutrient value

Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part I. Vitamins C and B and phenolic compounds. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 930-944.

Rickman JC, Barrett DM, and Bruhn CM (2007). Nutritional comparison of fresh, frozen and canned fruits and vegetables. Part II. Vitamin A and carotenoids, vitamin E, minerals and fiber. Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture, 87, 1185-1196.

Agreed. I think people need to do a bit more research about processed foods, particularly fruit and veggies, if they think this is an outlier. I regularly purchase store brand frozen veggies (Wegmans). They have a "rainbow blend" of green beans, red bell peppers, yellow carrots, and orange carrots. The ingredient list per the package: "Green beans, orange carrots, yellow carrots, red bell pepper." That's it. Straight up frozen veggies, no additives or preservatives. Costs $0.99 a package. I couldn't purchase those fresh veggies for that price, nor do they even carry yellow carrots in the store. Takes a few minutes to heat and serve. We rarely eat out, but even cooking at home I don't have time to cut up all those veggies and steam them in the evenings. Removing those extra steps is often the difference between having veggies with dinner or not in our house. So I do agree that canned/frozen foods can be a healthy choice and can also help people enjoy a variety of fruits and veggies they would not otherwise be able to find fresh where they live or even know how to prepare if they did have access to them.

I agree with you on the frozen veggies in particular. Canned I'm not so sure about -- I'd have to look into it more. It was my understanding that a lot of canned veggies and fruits had extra additives and often sugar (especially fruits) -- but I may be very off on this.

But, the original statement went beyond just canned veggies and fruits -- to processed frozen dinners (which I do believe have a lot of additives), processed foods (ditto) and eating at restaurants (additives -- maybe, maybe not depending on where you are -- but often extremely large portions if you find a place that doesn't use the additives) versus just making home-cooked meals with better nutrient values.

I can veggies at home. The only difference from freezing is added salt, acid, and longer cook time.

lindsey1979

Eh. She's using her degree as evidence of her knowledge and understanding in this thread.

:laugh:

You can laugh but we all remember you touting educational history in a desperate attempt to back up your ridiculous, wrong claims about nutrition.

Once again, no. False. Misrepresentation.

Someone (it may have been you --- I don't remember) said that he was right because a whole bunch of posters also agreed with him -- typical bullying tactic for those with weak arguments. I refuted and called into question the quality of those that agree with him. Mob agreement doesn't mean much -- it depends on the quality of the mob. Then, the thread spiraled out of control.

But thank you for bringing it up again -- despite it being a forum violation -- and misrepresenting the facts AGAIN.