It should be required by federal law...

PJPrimrose

I didn't read the whole thread. Here's my take on the original OPs idea : Why federal law? Do we really need more big government ? No. Vote with your wallet and express your freedom! If folks don't eat at restaurants that don't show food content or calories they will change to make their customers happy. It's how they stay in business. Jiminy Cricket! Why more laws?

CaitlinW19

I didn't read the whole thread. Here's my take on the original OPs idea : Why federal law? Do we really need more big government ? No. Vote with your wallet and express your freedom! If folks don't eat at restaurants that don't show food content or calories they will change to make their customers happy. It's how they stay in business. Jiminy Cricket! Why more laws?

Agree!!!! Very good point.

hamo1987

I agree, I also think that packages of stuff like a package of candy or other small package multi portion items should disclose calories for full container... say sports drinks and such they typically haveu three or so servings a bottle, why not list the calories on the front of the bottle for the entire contents, the truth is people do not always look at things have three servings in a container of personal size... maybe thats just getting over zealous, but darnit if I dont hate grabbing a small package of something and then having to count out every single piece lol being picky I know lol

jsissom86

Some people eat out alot - for whatever reason it may be. So, for me I only go to places that have the calories listed.

lemurcat12

I would like to see customers pressure stores into providing this information as I would find it quite useful. I think stores would come around to it if customers just made their voices heard and let them know this was desirable. A venue that did this would instantly become more attractive to dieters and those who watch their calories and nutrition. And in case you haven't noticed there is quite a lot of us. This is a good idea but it's not right to stamp our feet we just need to let these business know that it's in their best interests too. Works the other way round too. If a company fails to provide this very easily provided info when pressured you can probably assume it doesn't want you to know what's in it's food.

Seems quite sensible and already happening. Restaurants that sell based on health benefits and advertise the calorie counts and so on seem not all that uncommon, and patronizing them and telling them that's why, vs. complaining to restaurants that don't seem a smart way to go about this. As I said in my other post, I can't find a chain that doesn't have this kind of information available, so I have to assume the real target here are smaller local restaurants.

And as for smaller local restaurants, I really don't want this kind of information. I wouldn't trust it--it's enough of a pain for me to do when I'm cooking complicated recipes for a group and I'm really motivated--and I think it would stifle creativity, menu changes, etc. What I do want is that the restaurants I go to (when I go out to dinner I go pretty much exclusively to local restaurants, not chains) be willing to answer questions if I ask and allow such things as bringing out oil and vinegar vs. putting on the planned dressing if asked (I actually generally don't, but still). If they wouldn't--someone upthread said they'd had this experience, although I haven't--then I'd patronize another restaurant and tell them the reason. Given the failure rate for restaurants, customer desires would seem to be significant, and I don't see the need for a law. If someone cares that much, there are a million restaurants that do have this information available, plus plenty of others that would answer questions if asked. My suspicion is that people don't want to be bothered to ask or even look up the relevant information.

Yagisama

First of all, I must admit that I go to restaurants too often. A few years ago I was on a temporary work assignment (1+ year) and had gotten a per diem to expense meals each day. I was given an allowance of ~70/day and foolishly I took it as a challenge and went to restaurants every day and ordered way too much food. This is how I gained a lot of my current weight.

Most people here, create meals at home and don't go to restaurants often. And when they do go to restaurants, they don't really care too much about the exact nutrient information, since its a special occasion, etc. That's definitely the healthy way to go, and I tip my hat to everyone who does so.

I on the other hand, still go out to eat often. I am currently on a temporary work assignment again, and I have my meal allowance again. Now I make a special effort to go to places that have nutrition information available. I generally do the research BEFORE I go to the restaurant. I also go to smaller places like Panera Bread, Jason's Deli, etc. They have menu choices that I can work into my daily calorie and macronutriet goals.

I wish more restaurants had nutrition information available, but I understand that it is not practical for small restaurants to do so. I fully expect large chains to have them though.

Also, I understand there are issues with enforceability, and variation. A few years ago when a waitress would say something like "the chef 'accidentally' made it double size" I'd smile and say "my complements to the chef" and probably end up giving an extra large tip. Now during the same situation I'd wonder why the chef wants to taunt me with more calories. So yes, for better or for worse consistency isn't as prevalent in smaller restaurants. On the other end of the spectrum nutritional information make perfect sense for a place like McDonald's since their goal is to make every unit as similar to their reference unit as possible.

Summary: I wish nutritional information was available for ALL restaurants but I understand that due to cost, enforceability, variation, etc it may not be practical.

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

ellenlucy6

(To the person saying its a 'first world' problem)
I think you've fallen for the western construction of the 'third world' ....I'd hazard a guess and say all countries have restaurants and at least a few people counting calories. The construction is problematic because it reinforces that western ideals = development, which has generally been shown not to be the case, and even the terms used, first or third, is subtly reinforcing that richer countries are better.

Iwishyouwell

Why should restuarants now, after thousands of years in existence, be required to add calorie and nutritional information now?

Eating out has never been a problem for human beings. In plenty of places, even today, people still dine out, and their greater population is nowhere near as obese as the US.

For the calorie counters out there, sure, it'll make your life easier (assuming the values posted are even remotely accurate). But, in general? Every food establishment being federally mandated to provide such information isn't likely to curb the obesity trend at all. It'll ultimately be a money and time waster.

The bottom line is that it's just far simpler to place the onus of regulation and education on the consumer. If you find yourself eating out a lot, and your waistline is expanding, not to mention an overall deterioration of your other food related health markers, it's probably time for you to just...stop eating out so much.

SunofaBeach14

(To the person saying its a 'first world' problem)
I think you've fallen for the western construction of the 'third world' ....I'd hazard a guess and say all countries have restaurants and at least a few people counting calories. The construction is problematic because it reinforces that western ideals = development, which has generally been shown not to be the case, and even the terms used, first or third, is subtly reinforcing that richer countries are better.

Someone is in community college

Jestinia

First of all, I must admit that I go to restaurants too often. A few years ago I was on a temporary work assignment (1+ year) and had gotten a per diem to expense meals each day. I was given an allowance of ~70/day and foolishly I took it as a challenge and went to restaurants every day and ordered way too much food. This is how I gained a lot of my current weight.

Most people here, create meals at home and don't go to restaurants often. And when they do go to restaurants, they don't really care too much about the exact nutrient information, since its a special occasion, etc. That's definitely the healthy way to go, and I tip my hat to everyone who does so.

I on the other hand, still go out to eat often. I am currently on a temporary work assignment again, and I have my meal allowance again. Now I make a special effort to go to places that have nutrition information available. I generally do the research BEFORE I go to the restaurant. I also go to smaller places like Panera Bread, Jason's Deli, etc. They have menu choices that I can work into my daily calorie and macronutriet goals.

I wish more restaurants had nutrition information available, but I understand that it is not practical for small restaurants to do so. I fully expect large chains to have them though.

Also, I understand there are issues with enforceability, and variation. A few years ago when a waitress would say something like "the chef 'accidentally' made it double size" I'd smile and say "my complements to the chef" and probably end up giving an extra large tip. Now during the same situation I'd wonder why the chef wants to taunt me with more calories. So yes, for better or for worse consistency isn't as prevalent in smaller restaurants. On the other end of the spectrum nutritional information make perfect sense for a place like McDonald's since their goal is to make every unit as similar to their reference unit as possible.

Summary: I wish nutritional information was available for ALL restaurants but I understand that due to cost, enforceability, variation, etc it may not be practical.

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

It is true that any government we can't trust with menu regulations can't be trusted with guns, much less tanks and nukes.

Okay, now I need to go find something else to do!

PRMinx

That said, I'm always sad to read that Americans have so little faith in their government. I have relatives in Germany and Japan and this may be due to my selection bias, but every time I travel to most other countries, when the government mandates that companies do something, people tend to think of the government standing against business for the good of the people. Basically, they think of the government AS the people ("we the people" and all that.) In the US, the (federal) government is some entity in a far away land ("DC") that's always up to no good. Again, probably selection bias since I'm comparing friends/relatives in Germany/Japan vs public posters here.

Yeah, and in Germany the government mandates who can get a higher education unless the family has the money to send people out of the country....awesome.

Americans are (or were) historically anti-government because we believe (or used to believe) in freedom of personal choice. With personal choice, comes personal responsibility. This is what we were founded on - and it's what many of us still believe in today. We have never been a culture that accepts a big brother government, so comparing us to Europe or Japan is apples and oranges.

While the government is (read: should be) "for the people" in certain respects, and while regulation is necessary in some areas, government spend is incredibly bloated as we continue to add whatever regulation du jour people want in the books. Using tax payer money and other government resources to enforce what appears on a restaurant menu is ridiculous when you think of myriad other more pressing priorities that need funds.

ellenlucy6

(To the person saying its a 'first world' problem)
I think you've fallen for the western construction of the 'third world' ....I'd hazard a guess and say all countries have restaurants and at least a few people counting calories. The construction is problematic because it reinforces that western ideals = development, which has generally been shown not to be the case, and even the terms used, first or third, is subtly reinforcing that richer countries are better.

Someone is in community college

I'm in England and am not sure what a community college is exactly, but I am studying politics at university if that's what you meant.

PRMinx

It is true that any government we can't trust with menu regulations can't be trusted with guns, much less tanks and nukes.

Okay, now I need to go find something else to do!

Aaron_K123

It's done here in California.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

For chain restaurants, with zero accountability or enforcement in terms of accuracy.

rml_16

(To the person saying its a 'first world' problem)
I think you've fallen for the western construction of the 'third world' ....I'd hazard a guess and say all countries have restaurants and at least a few people counting calories. The construction is problematic because it reinforces that western ideals = development, which has generally been shown not to be the case, and even the terms used, first or third, is subtly reinforcing that richer countries are better.

Someone is in community college

I'm in England and am not sure what a community college is exactly, but I am studying politics at university if that's what you meant.

A community college/junior college is a smaller school where you can earn your associate's (two-year) degree or get certified in certain things like nursing, paralegal, etc.

In the US (maybe in the UK as well?), you spend your first two years getting your general ed requirements done (math, English 101, etc.). In a regular university, these are usually huge classes with assistant profs (grad students, generally) teaching them. A community college is cheaper, usually has smaller classes and you have someone who at least has a master's degree teaching the classes.

People say nasty things about community colleges because they're perceived as lesser (though really, they aren't).

SunofaBeach14

(To the person saying its a 'first world' problem)
I think you've fallen for the western construction of the 'third world' ....I'd hazard a guess and say all countries have restaurants and at least a few people counting calories. The construction is problematic because it reinforces that western ideals = development, which has generally been shown not to be the case, and even the terms used, first or third, is subtly reinforcing that richer countries are better.

Someone is in community college

I'm in England and am not sure what a community college is exactly, but I am studying politics at university if that's what you meant.

Score . . .

Now, go live in a developing country and let me know if it's "better," no subtlety to it . . .

buzybev

Sounds like a first world problem to me.

there are restaurants in "developing" countries as well.

ETA: Oops. I guess others beat me to it! And I'm not really here for people who have so much to say about the conditions in "developing" countries but are mum on the role imperialism/colonialism plays.

SunofaBeach14

(To the person saying its a 'first world' problem)
I think you've fallen for the western construction of the 'third world' ....I'd hazard a guess and say all countries have restaurants and at least a few people counting calories. The construction is problematic because it reinforces that western ideals = development, which has generally been shown not to be the case, and even the terms used, first or third, is subtly reinforcing that richer countries are better.

Someone is in community college

I'm in England and am not sure what a community college is exactly, but I am studying politics at university if that's what you meant.

A community college/junior college is a smaller school where you can earn your associate's (two-year) degree or get certified in certain things like nursing, paralegal, etc.

In the US (maybe in the UK as well?), you spend your first two years getting your general ed requirements done (math, English 101, etc.). In a regular university, these are usually huge classes with assistant profs (grad students, generally) teaching them. A community college is cheaper, usually has smaller classes and you have someone who at least has a master's degree teaching the classes.

People say nasty things about community colleges because they're perceived as lesser (though really, they aren't).

We're all here for the same reason

Aaron_K123

It should be required by federal law....


that any exercise equipment be properly labeled with chart describing the exact calorie burn per unit time for people of different body types genders weights and body compositions. I think its ridiculous that we have all these gyms that don't tell me exactly how many calories I have burned on the power rack when I do a set of squats. Can't they just simply post a chart there for each exercise? Really it shouldn't just be gyms, I think all places where one could exercise should post calorie burn so that people can be better informed about exercise. I have a park near my house and they don't have one sign on the trail that winds through the park about how many calories you would burn if you walked, light jogged, or ran at various speeds around the course. Ridiculous.

ellenlucy6

I'm not denying that average quality of life in developed countries is higher, just critiquing the use of the term 'first world'. Especially as it's usage here is showing how it has directly impacted peoples views to the extent they're implying that there are no restaurants in developing nations. We often see rural areas where standards of living are shocking in the media, and many people think of this if you're asked what first comes to mind if I say "Nigeria" for instance, we never see the cities and infrastructure that also exist.

Anonycatgirl

"Would be convenient," sure. "Ought to be a federal law..." That's just silly and intrusive.

Relax and eat your dinner. Or don't. But let's not go putting more laws out there to cover things that really aren't the government's responsibility. (I'm a diehard liberal who has a fairly expansive view of "governmental responsibility," but no one's making you eat at restaurants.)

SunofaBeach14

Sounds like a first world problem to me.

there are restaurants in "developing" countries as well.

ETA: Oops. I guess others beat me to it! And I'm not really here for people who have so much to say about the conditions in "developing" countries but are mum on the role imperialism/colonialism plays.

Losing is a *****

SunofaBeach14

I'm not denying that average quality of life in developed countries is higher, just critiquing the use of the term 'first world'. Especially as it's usage here is showing how it has directly impacted peoples views to the extent they're implying that there are no restaurants in developing nations. We often see rural areas where standards of living are shocking in the media, and many people think of this if you're asked what first comes to mind if I say "Nigeria" for instance, we never see the cities and infrastructure that also exist.

You do if you travel there . . .

Aaron_K123

I'm not denying that average quality of life in developed countries is higher, just critiquing the use of the term 'first world'. Especially as it's usage here is showing how it has directly impacted peoples views to the extent they're implying that there are no restaurants in developing nations. We often see rural areas where standards of living are shocking in the media, and many people think of this if you're asked what first comes to mind if I say "Nigeria" for instance, we never see the cities and infrastructure that also exist.

I work at a non-profit research institute devoted to the development of treatments of diseases that plague the developing world. Let me be the first to say get off your politically correct high-horse with regards to using the term "first world". Political correctness...also a first world problem.

TaintedVampyre

I get frustrated when restaurants have special meals only prepped for X-amount of time. They don't hand out nutrional info for stuff like that. Trust me, I've asked.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

I guess maybe the government should have us all on feeding tubes too.


Also, all you people crying BW3 aren't "real" wings or whatever, I am sure you like Pizza Hut or McDonald's or Don Pablo's. Don't let your obsession with "authenticity" stand in the way of you and Spicy Garlic sauce, mmkay?

Actually, no.

Does Don Pablo's even exist anymore?

Actually, no what? Food snobbery is ridiculous. I prefer non-chains where food is treated with consideration, but arguing that somebody shouldn't like BW3 because "OH MY GOD, COME TO BUFFALO". Just no.

And yes, yes they do.

OMG.

It was a freaking joke.

But, no, I generally don't eat at those places you mentioned on purpose because if I'm going to spend money on food, I want it to taste good.

And, also, there are plenty of places outside of Buffalo that have fabulous wings. BWW isn't one of them.

OMG what was a joke?

Because I was saying it's silly to claim that x chain that sells x food isn't "good" or "real" because they aren't as good as x local place because we're talking about food, which is a matter of taste and experience.

I've seen at least 100 times around here someone talk about a chain restaurant and someone else come in and make a tongue-in-cheek statement about the food there not being good and everyone either laughs along or brushes it off or even agrees. I make a tongue-in-cheek statement about chain restaurant wings not being very good and it's WWIII.

Interesting.

Would you say BW3 is the "community college" of wingaries?

Oh this day...

rml_16

Would you say BW3 is the "community college" of wingaries?

Oh this day...

Um ... I don't even know what you're trying to say.

SunofaBeach14

Would you say BW3 is the "community college" of wingaries?

Oh this day...

Um ... I don't even know what you're trying to say.

Wingeries are like colleges, they're all equally good . . .

angelique_redhead

It would be very helpful if they had the information online if nothing else. I know Taco Bell, McDonalds, Outback and Applebee's do. I have been known to very carefully plan what I was going to eat when going to them thanks to that.

SunofaBeach14

It would be very helpful if they had the information online if nothing else. I know Taco Bell, McDonalds, Outback and Applebee's do. I have been known to very carefully plan what I was going to eat when going to them thanks to that.

^ the best of the best, as we all know