Giving your body no choice but to burn fat daily

devil_in_a_blue_dress

This thread is officially :

Quasita

I clicked this like 30 minutes ago, and there were 4 pages... now there are 13.

Now, I've gotten some harsh responses from people claiming my info is incorrect, but when asked, I provide my sources and personal anecdotal examples. Part of researching a topic is in fact asking people who claim expertise where they gained their education on the subject, so that you can in turn understand 1) where they are coming from and 2) be exposed to the same source so that conversation about the topic can be centralized. My impression from someone saying "I don't have to, do some research" is that the person doesn't remember where they read it, or that they misspoke and they are too embarrassed to explain their mistake.

I COULD believe that 8g of ANIMAL protein may have been suggested by some source at some point *but* protein overall is virtually impossible to avoid. It's found in fruits and vegetables too, ya know. In order to keep to an 8g/day protein limit, a person would have to eat next to nothing, and even then, when pushed to desperation, the body would break down its own protein stores in order to supply the needs of its basic functions... Which leads to impact on overall energy conversion.

Hot tubs work the cardio system in the sense that the heat and massage can reduce blood pressure and ease stress on the system. However, any calorie burn would be through temperature regulation, not some kind of workout. "Getting cardio" implies that you would be actively conditioning the cardiovascular system to be more efficient, which is not the case with a hot tub. It might be relaxing, but the BP drop only exists when you are in the tub and during the cool down phase post-soak. In fact, regular hot tub soaking can cause people to suffer headaches and dehydration problems if they are not careful.

I'm one of the people in the forums that discusses medical starvation at length as a serious medical condition. However, what you're talking about regarding starvation mode is not how it works. I do get excessively tired of the quoting of the MN starvation experiment, because it is not something you can universally apply to people struggling with disordered or inconsistent feeding schedules or compromised metabolic systems BUT telling people they'll go right into starvation mode if they drop too low is bunk. I find it funny that it's something you'll even talk about when you admit to the fact that some days, you eat as little as 1200, which is proven (as seems to be your fave buzz word) to be skirting on unhealthy for the average person, and is rarely recommended for people who are not of below average height.

Ultimately, why would you post this to the forums when you have a perfectly good blog that you can offer to your friends, so they can see what you do, without getting forum backlash? If they want to know, tell THEM.

Having a bunch of people respond with their own research that directly contradicts your claims is not trolling.

k_nicole87

I'm not seeing the correlation between stopping bad information and "caring" about others.

I care about my mother, I'm not going to go correct "heroine is awesome" posts on a message board because she might read it and believe it.

You've just crossed into dangerous territory. One of the major problems with *heroin use is the word of mouth of how amazing it is.

But anyways, I do not have all of the dietary answers nor the time to research the bull**** "medical' stories looking for them. I doubt any one person on here does. I, and many other noobs, come to MFP hoping to hear from others about factual information. MFP is designed to help people learn about health and fitness. Spewing fake garbage all over negates the entire purpose of the site.

_Pseudonymous_

lmao @ starvation mode, congrats you broke the first law of thermodynamics brb nobel prize

****ing retard

Umm, yeah, you're not much better than the OP with all that.

Agreed. Please stop using that word as an insult, please. and thank you.

not that i disagree with you in any way about using that word, but there isnt really an insult that can be used without offending anyone (not including whos being insulted)

That may be so, but she could have just called everyone idiots or a*holes. She doesn't have to demean an entire group of people by using that term to insult others and in turn insult people who actually suffer from Mental Retardation. It's wrong and even the people I work with ( which are people who have been diagnosed with mental retardation) know better than to call someone else a retard...

also, this is the only offensive term that bothers me. I'm fun with the B-word, C-word, any creative concotion of derogatory words... lol. just not Retard.

What about F*cktard? I've always enjoyed that one.

Douchepickle is my personal favorite.

OOOOOOOoooooh Douchpickle!!! I LIKE that one. I usually call people C**t-*kitten*... I don't know why other than I like the c word... way more than a person should. I blame Louis CK

Strokingdiction

What purpose is served by stopping newbies from taking bad advice, what exactly are you trying to prevent?

How many times are you going to ask the same question?

lindsey1979

Sure, she went all in rather quickly, but it doesn't negate the original point. Some folks had respectful replies illustrating their disagreement. Others went right for the sarcasm, ridicule and mockery. If you actually want to educate people, encourage meaningful exchanges and minimize the spread of misinformation, the latter isn't going to get it done. The content of the message will be completely lost in the delivery.

Do people really interact like this in their real lives? I just have a hard time imagining that as I think they'd have very few friends, not keep a job and probably get into a good amount of fist fights.

First of all, let me explain a little something to you called the internet. This is a highly social environment away from the niceties of every day life. Thank you for speaking out that someone who does not sugar coat things to perfect strangers must not have a job or friends. I, for one, have a highly formal job where I must keep up a professional appearance at all times. On the internet, I am free to share and express my views in any way I wish and I enjoy being quite a forthright person. If you want to boil down a person who has no name or identity other than an avatar and a screen name, how about you? I would say that, judging by your posts and nothing else, you've been picked on quite a bit. Hence your urgency to defend someone like OP while disregarding the fact that any member with a disabled loved one would be highly hurt by the use of the R word. I'm guessing you are not likely to have many friends and are desperately seeking the approval of others like you, ie: OP who has essentially been outcast from this forum.

The point is that anywhere (such as the internet) where you have a MASS of people from all types of backgrounds, opinions, and behavioral sets (people from different regions handle things differently), you are bound to have a hodge-podge of differing views, most will not be expressed the way you choose to express yours.




I should really save this.

Wow. Thank you for illustrating my point. Well done.

I didn't know that requesting common courtesy and respectful discourse was such a huge thing. They are essentially written into the forum rules, you know.

As for the r-word, I'm pretty ambivalent about it. I think it's the evolution of language, much like dumb and lame are generally accepted descriptors now though they originate from similar origins as the r-word. However, I realize in polite society, some are offended by its use, so I don't use it out of common courtesy.

I'd like common courtesy so I don't have to comb through 14 pages of junk to find the 2 pages of meaningful posts. I'd like to get rid of the disrespectful commentary because (1) it shuts down meaningful exchanges, (2) discourages many from posting at all (and this is a real shame) and (3) makes it more difficult to actually find the good posts.

GoPhil04

This whole thread is hilarious.


"You have two ears and one mouth. Use them appropriately"

sathor

i build muscle and iam defenately at a deficit :0 by 400-700 and loosing pounds idk much about (surplus) an amount of something left over when requirements have been met; an excess of production or supply over demand. more than what is needed or used; excess. <

Are you a returning athlete after a long layoff, a total newbie to weight lifting or an obese person doing strength training? If not, then you're more than likely not building muscle. Again, building muscle means adding tissue. That means more energy is needed than usual to accomplish this. Which is why a surplus is needed. Science trumps anecdotes.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

To be fair, I have seen reseach going both ways on that, but it seems that most of it says that to do that, with a deficit, you still have to be eating a LOT of food, much more than the minimum daily amount, such that you would be in a deficit, yet still eating an extra 1k+ a day. For most people, that probably isn't going to happen.

RGv2

I'm not seeing the correlation between stopping bad information and "caring" about others.

I care about my mother, I'm not going to go correct "heroine is awesome" posts on a message board because she might read it and believe it.

You really don't see the point of disputing/disproving complete misinformation in a forum that some/many look to for guidance in weight loss?

dmenchac

I wonder if anyone here could actually articulate why they care so much if a post is filled with incorrect information?

It has already been expressed...

To prevent the spread of misinformation to somebody who is new searching the boards for solid advice.

Ok and what is the intention there exactly? Do you actually care if some random noob logs in and gets bad advice?

Or more specifically why do you care about that?

Yes, because bad advice doesn't die, it multiplies.

I would rather sift through legitimate questions on this forum than read these type of threads.

No you wouldn't. You loved this thread. Admit it.

But I agree with your point.

Guilty

sseqwnp

I wonder if anyone here could actually articulate why they care so much if a post is filled with incorrect information?

So some new person doesn't try subsist on 8g of protein a day most likely.

I don't actually care. If someone tried to live on 9g of protein a day, I'd ask them to post progress on youtube.

But to a lot of these people, they just like a fight they can win. Obvious misinformation + obviously underinformed OP + argument that's been had a thousand times = easy win for those who want to feel intellectually superior and somehow "moral" about ripping someone to shreds.

1princesswarrior

Long story short--- With my intent to be helpful and the results was being trashed and abused, I have really lost all concern for this thread. I have heard nothing but insults instead if actual criticism. I will not make the mistake of trying to be helpful on this forum again. Thank you for this awful lesson that couldn't of been performed in a more childish way. You guys are absolutely amazing and I'm sure with the lives you lead you perform this act daily. Enjoy this amongst yourselves at the cost of someone else's well being. And thank you for being a part of the worlds problem.

I was not going to say anything because you are already taking a beating but who is being childish here. I believe you started with the insults with the name calling dear. Up until that point the folks on here may have been snarky but were simply pointing out that you posted some bad information. And it is good advice that you read a lot more than you post in these forums. I read on here for 6 months before I really started posting anything.

sathor

The saddest part of this thread is that half of us who posted will most likely get some type of warning/strike for breaking some sort of community guideline.


Got my second strike for calling someone lazy a few days ago -_- (they posted yet another thread on starvation mode)

I figured that could happen, so I figured I'd make it worth it. I know a guy that got banned from the forums for insinuating a mod was a primate of some sort. He can still be on MFP, but not the forums.

BigT555

I'm not seeing the correlation between stopping bad information and "caring" about others.

I care about my mother, I'm not going to go correct "heroine is awesome" posts on a message board because she might read it and believe it.

because your mother has the knowledge to know heroin is bad already.. someone might read this and think its reasonable advice. i really dont see how your not getting this

Aaron_K123

Encouraging people with incorrect actions for healthy weight loss is bad. Hey, cabbage diet, yea that's good, thanks for telling me that it was a good idea for me to do that. Bit extreme example but essentially what folks here are trying to cull out.
I for one appreciate it.
We know everything on the web is true. The preceding statement is false.

But some are doing it in horribly ineffective, counterproductive ways. You can vehemently disagree with someone and still do so in a respectful way.

And what way would that be? Asking for scientific evidence to support your claims?

Didn't see any of that happening.

Nope, that's great. But just do so in a respectful way without all the unnecessary mockery, ridicule and general nastiness.

If a 10 year-old gets his math homework wrong, do you point and laugh and tell him how ridiculous he is? Is that going to encourage him to learn?

If your point is to educate that specific 10 year old and coddle their ego then you are absolutely correct you would not use ridicule. If, however, that 10 year old stepped up to a podium and tried to instruct everyone within earshot in a public forum how to do math and proceeded to do it wrong then the quickest way to fix the damage that might cause to the naive in the audience the fastest way to that is mockery. In that case you aren't try to educate the person who was arrogant enough to stand up and proclaim their unresearched misinformed opinion as the ultimate truth you are instead trying to project as fast as possible to the reader that what the presenter is saying is worthy of ridicule.

I have no interest in coddling or stroking the ego of a 32 year old woman who would post such ridiculous notions and then get so defensive as to start insulting people who ask her to back up her claims.

kikityme

in before the lock.

Strokingdiction

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/mar/04/animal-protein-diets-smoking-meat-eggs-dairy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21102327

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2014/03/04/285879644/eat-plants-and-prosper-for-longevity-go-easy-on-the-meat-study-says

Okay, maybe I misremembered the grams of protein needed (not that I have been measuring), but the point being is we need a lot less than what we have been led to believe. Not to mention the source of where you get that protein.

http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.php

So most journals of medicine and science will agree about .08 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. I think you mixed the .08 gram with 8 grams total. Understandable mistake. Now about that hot tub cardio...................

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Didin't it say 0.8 not 0.08 grams per KG? of she would be close as you would have to weight 100kgs to get 8 grams of protien if you only needed .08, but 0.8 would be 80 grams.

Sorry, I put in too many zeros. My bad. 0.8 is CORRECT.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness industry for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

http://www.olympichottub.com/health/cardiovascular.html

This is a site selling hot tubs, it's stating they are safer than previously thought for people with heart problem...

OMFG... just google it your damn selves. I'm sick of proving myself to you monsters...

We are now:

R-words
As*holes
and now monsters!

I'm actually disappointed. Monsters is really underwhelming considering what you started with.

Well YOU are a monster. How the hell else could you be reading fast enough to be keeping up that well, I started reading this thread when it was only seven pages long, and only just now got to my first reply, and the is now are least 13 pages. Only a monster, or maybe sonic the hedgehog, could be reading that fast.

Are you by chance a hedgehog?

I was in on the first page and have nothing going on this morning. Too cold for gardening and already got my workout in. I guess I could have done laundry instead but between the two, one was definitely more entertaining even if it was less productive.

I have been called a monster before but it wasn't in this context... now I have to go ruminate on that.

Right time right place, I suppose.

ZoeLifts

<insertpopcorngifhere>

I'm too busy to fuss with it and I'm hoping I can catch up with this madness later on (if it's not locked by then)

lindsey1979

Encouraging people with incorrect actions for healthy weight loss is bad. Hey, cabbage diet, yea that's good, thanks for telling me that it was a good idea for me to do that. Bit extreme example but essentially what folks here are trying to cull out.
I for one appreciate it.
We know everything on the web is true. The preceding statement is false.

But some are doing it in horribly ineffective, counterproductive ways. You can vehemently disagree with someone and still do so in a respectful way.

And what way would that be? Asking for scientific evidence to support your claims?

Didn't see any of that happening.

Nope, that's great. But just do so in a respectful way without all the unnecessary mockery, ridicule and general nastiness.

If a 10 year-old gets his math homework wrong, do you point and laugh and tell him how ridiculous he is? Is that going to encourage him to learn?

He's ten and not 30. Also, if one of my nephews, say the 12 year old came to me and told me a fact that I knew wasn't fact, I would tell him to prove it. I've done it before. He tried but failed. It was a good learning experience.

But would you mock, ridicule or otherwise be nasty? Or say it was fine for someone else to do the same -- after all, he was wrong.

Can people really not understand the difference?

Roxie_64

Here is the big secret...The perfect weight loss plan...This is all you need to know.

To lose weight! Eat less and exercise more!