What YOU should know about GLUTEN SENSITIVITY
Replies
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Selective science and hypochondria are fun combos...
"Science is wrong because <insert anecdotal observation>
Out of curiosity, would you suggest that this hypochondriac just go on eating the gluten and suffer the symptoms, because 'science' has not proven that my symptoms were indeed caused by the gluten?
I have never had a doctor have anything but a very positive reaction to my change in health.
That's not the same as a diagnosis. If I were you I'd keep trying to determine what the issue is. The studies above show no evidence of gluten sensitivity, which is definitely not the same as proving it doesn't exist, but it should at least make you question what is really going on.
Edit: typo . . . #problemswithsmartphones
OK, so are you saying I should go ahead and eat the gluten and wait for someone to give me a 'gluten whatever' diagnosis.
I do have diagnosis: Migraine, complicated by aura and visual disturbances, IBS, Reflux (hiatal hernia) and arthritis. All diagnosed with blood tests, xrays, CT scans, MRI, MRA and scopes.
I suppose my biggest issue on the thread is what does it matter if I do not eat gluten. What am I missing other than filler?
I am a bit confused really by some of the responses :ohwell:
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
So, it would make sense to me that I am eating a better diet. If I haven't a piece of bread with the meal, I am indeed eating more chicken or veggies. No muffin, I am eating an apple. Makes sense.
BUT how about when I went into eff it mode due to comments here and other references, and added it back to my diet. The symptoms returned. Psychosomatic?
It certainly doesn't hurt me to not eat the things I have eliminated. I still eat enough fiber, macros are good (when I log them LOL)
What if I have a wheat allergy, how would I know this? Is using the word gluten what is so inflammatory?0 -
This actually completely pisses me off.
I am on the FODMAP diet and I follow it quite strictly.
I'm also gluten intolerant. I have both gene pairs for Celiac disease but my GI biopsy was negative for Celiac. When I eat any food with gluten in it, or food I eat comes in contact with gluten, I become ill for a day or two with pain,bloating, diarrhea, nausea, and fatigue. This is while still following my FODMAP diet.
Pretty sure this study is complete crap and proves nothing.0 -
I have no reason to not believe people that say that being gluten free has improved their health (easier digestion, less headaches etc.) because everyone's body reacts differently to food and if avoiding certain food (while still eating a well balanced diet) makes you feel better than knock yourself out. The only problem I have is when people claim that gluten free is the solution to weight loss. Whatever you avoid in your diet for other health reasons is not going to solve weight problems unless it also results in eating less or perhaps working out more if the food made you so uncomfortable or sick it limited your movement.
Gluten-free isn't the only highly touted "sensitiviity" or "intolerance" to be touted as a weight loss miracle rather than just a valid health concern for some people and it probably will not be last.
I agree, as I didn't lose a pound when I went GF. I waited to get healthier, then went on caloric reduction.
When someone questions how I have lost my weight I NEVER mention gluten. No way. I give them the MFP info, tell them to eat better and exercise more. That is how I lost the weight.0 -
OP: You have your diary open and I refuse to take any type of advice from someone who is not doing the right things to begin with. Please, if you post at least have some experience and be more of an expert in this area.
I have plenty of experience eating gluten. Is that what you mean?0 -
Selective science and hypochondria are fun combos...
"Science is wrong because <insert anecdotal observation>
Out of curiosity, would you suggest that this hypochondriac just go on eating the gluten and suffer the symptoms, because 'science' has not proven that my symptoms were indeed caused by the gluten?
I have never had a doctor have anything but a very positive reaction to my change in health.
That's not the same as a diagnosis. If I were you I'd keep trying to determine what the issue is. The studies above show no evidence of gluten sensitivity, which is definitely not the same as proving it doesn't exist, but it should at least make you question what is really going on.
Edit: typo . . . #problemswithsmartphones
OK, so are you saying I should go ahead and eat the gluten and wait for someone to give me a 'gluten whatever' diagnosis.
I do have diagnosis: Migraine, complicated by aura and visual disturbances, IBS, Reflux (hiatal hernia) and arthritis. All diagnosed with blood tests, xrays, CT scans, MRI, MRA and scopes.
I suppose my biggest issue on the thread is what does it matter if I do not eat gluten. What am I missing other than filler?
I am a bit confused really by some of the responses :ohwell:
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
So, it would make sense to me that I am eating a better diet. If I haven't a piece of bread with the meal, I am indeed eating more chicken or veggies. No muffin, I am eating an apple. Makes sense.
BUT how about when I went into eff it mode due to comments here and other references, and added it back to my diet. The symptoms returned. Psychosomatic?
It certainly doesn't hurt me to not eat the things I have eliminated. I still eat enough fiber, macros are good (when I log them LOL)
What if I have a wheat allergy, how would I know this? Is using the word gluten what is so inflammatory?
I don't know. I'm sorry, but I think being willing to say "I don't know" is an important part of problem solving. Too many times the chiropractor who refuses to stick with back adjustment or the homeopath suggests the flavor of the month boogeyman. And, to answer your last question, that is why the discussion of gluten has become inflammatory. Many of us recognize this as a trend. We've been down this road before with other foods and their supposed toxicity or miracle properties. Again, step back, rethink what may be really going on, and keep an open mind as the studies come in and give us a clearer picture.
ETA: have you ever been tested for allergies?0 -
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
Methinks you put a little too much faith in conventional/modern medicine, especially when it comes to systemic and neurological disorders (fibro, migraines, etc).
The simple truth of the matter is that modern medicine does not know nearly as much as people think it does, especially in the above two areas. Even the term "migraine" is a catch-all for a number of different subtypes, none of which have any officially known cause. Things like SIDS (and, as mentioned, IBS, and formerly fibro, among other things) are basically fancy terms for "we don't know WTF is going on, but nothing else that we know of fits." It used to be believed that females couldn't even have Autism, or that males could be anorexic (the mental disorder part). Even Celiac has actually been known about for millennia, and only in the past couple of decades have there been anything even remotely reaching a half-decent diagnosis rate (seriously, the Celiac societies are ecstatic to think that diagnostic accuracy will reach 50% a decade from now; that is abysmal).
By all means, work with your doctor to try to find the solve the problem. Just don't expect that there's always a known answer, or that there's some test that can confirm beyond a doubt that you have X disorder. The reality is that such things simply don't (yet) exist for a very large portion of non-communicable diseases/disorders.0 -
Selective science and hypochondria are fun combos...
"Science is wrong because <insert anecdotal observation>
Out of curiosity, would you suggest that this hypochondriac just go on eating the gluten and suffer the symptoms, because 'science' has not proven that my symptoms were indeed caused by the gluten?
I have never had a doctor have anything but a very positive reaction to my change in health.
That's not the same as a diagnosis. If I were you I'd keep trying to determine what the issue is. The studies above show no evidence of gluten sensitivity, which is definitely not the same as proving it doesn't exist, but it should at least make you question what is really going on.
Edit: typo . . . #problemswithsmartphones
OK, so are you saying I should go ahead and eat the gluten and wait for someone to give me a 'gluten whatever' diagnosis.
I do have diagnosis: Migraine, complicated by aura and visual disturbances, IBS, Reflux (hiatal hernia) and arthritis. All diagnosed with blood tests, xrays, CT scans, MRI, MRA and scopes.
I suppose my biggest issue on the thread is what does it matter if I do not eat gluten. What am I missing other than filler?
I am a bit confused really by some of the responses :ohwell:
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
So, it would make sense to me that I am eating a better diet. If I haven't a piece of bread with the meal, I am indeed eating more chicken or veggies. No muffin, I am eating an apple. Makes sense.
BUT how about when I went into eff it mode due to comments here and other references, and added it back to my diet. The symptoms returned. Psychosomatic?
It certainly doesn't hurt me to not eat the things I have eliminated. I still eat enough fiber, macros are good (when I log them LOL)
What if I have a wheat allergy, how would I know this? Is using the word gluten what is so inflammatory?
I don't know. I'm sorry, but I think being willing to say "I don't know" is an important part of problem solving. Too many times the chiropractor who refuses to stick with back adjustment or the homeopath suggests the flavor of the month boogeyman. And, to answer your last question, that is why the discussion of gluten has become inflammatory. Many of us recognize this as a trend. We've been down this road before with other foods and their supposed toxicity or miracle properties. Again, step back, rethink what may be really going on, and keep an open mind as the studies come in and give us a clearer picture.
ETA: have you ever been tested for allergies?
First let me say "I don't know" is an acceptable answer.
This is my end result of 3 years of horrid health. For me, this is what makes me feel healthier. I am not sure where to go from this point and the doctors just say "IBS or Migraine, no cure here are some pills" Seriously, until I brought up diet changes not a one suggested it. Yet when I told them what I had been doing they scribbled furiously in the notes. Two of them spoke of on going studies. (Ortho and Neuro),
ETA: I have been tested for all types of allergies. The kind where my entire back and both arms were pricked. Mold and some grass. No food allergies where detected.0 -
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
Methinks you put a little too much faith in conventional/modern medicine, especially when it comes to systemic and neurological disorders (fibro, migraines, etc).
The simple truth of the matter is that modern medicine does not know nearly as much as people think it does, especially in the above two areas. Even the term "migraine" is a catch-all for a number of different subtypes, none of which have any officially known cause. Things like SIDS (and, as mentioned, IBS, and formerly fibro, among other things) are basically fancy terms for "we don't know WTF is going on, but nothing else that we know of fits." It used to be believed that females couldn't even have Autism, or that males could be anorexic (the mental disorder part). Even Celiac has actually been known about for millennia, and only in the past couple of decades have there been anything even remotely reaching a half-decent diagnosis rate (seriously, the Celiac societies are ecstatic to think that diagnostic accuracy will reach 50% a decade from now; that is abysmal).
By all means, work with your doctor to try to find the solve the problem. Just don't expect that there's always a known answer, or that there's some test that can confirm beyond a doubt that you have X disorder. The reality is that such things simply don't (yet) exist for a very large portion of non-communicable diseases/disorders.
Methinks you should read what I wrote0 -
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
Methinks you put a little too much faith in conventional/modern medicine, especially when it comes to systemic and neurological disorders (fibro, migraines, etc).
The simple truth of the matter is that modern medicine does not know nearly as much as people think it does, especially in the above two areas. Even the term "migraine" is a catch-all for a number of different subtypes, none of which have any officially known cause. Things like SIDS (and, as mentioned, IBS, and formerly fibro, among other things) are basically fancy terms for "we don't know WTF is going on, but nothing else that we know of fits." It used to be believed that females couldn't even have Autism, or that males could be anorexic (the mental disorder part). Even Celiac has actually been known about for millennia, and only in the past couple of decades have there been anything even remotely reaching a half-decent diagnosis rate (seriously, the Celiac societies are ecstatic to think that diagnostic accuracy will reach 50% a decade from now; that is abysmal).
By all means, work with your doctor to try to find the solve the problem. Just don't expect that there's always a known answer, or that there's some test that can confirm beyond a doubt that you have X disorder. The reality is that such things simply don't (yet) exist for a very large portion of non-communicable diseases/disorders.
Thank you for saying what I could not seem to put in words. I do not usually get into these discussions, because it is hard to prove that which cannot be proven.0 -
If there were a wheat "allergy," then why would this allergy not be testable like other known allergens? Why wouldn't gluten get a reaction in the IgE skin test?0
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Selective science and hypochondria are fun combos...
"Science is wrong because <insert anecdotal observation>
Out of curiosity, would you suggest that this hypochondriac just go on eating the gluten and suffer the symptoms, because 'science' has not proven that my symptoms were indeed caused by the gluten?
I have never had a doctor have anything but a very positive reaction to my change in health.
That's not the same as a diagnosis. If I were you I'd keep trying to determine what the issue is. The studies above show no evidence of gluten sensitivity, which is definitely not the same as proving it doesn't exist, but it should at least make you question what is really going on.
Edit: typo . . . #problemswithsmartphones
OK, so are you saying I should go ahead and eat the gluten and wait for someone to give me a 'gluten whatever' diagnosis.
I do have diagnosis: Migraine, complicated by aura and visual disturbances, IBS, Reflux (hiatal hernia) and arthritis. All diagnosed with blood tests, xrays, CT scans, MRI, MRA and scopes.
I suppose my biggest issue on the thread is what does it matter if I do not eat gluten. What am I missing other than filler?
I am a bit confused really by some of the responses :ohwell:
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
So, it would make sense to me that I am eating a better diet. If I haven't a piece of bread with the meal, I am indeed eating more chicken or veggies. No muffin, I am eating an apple. Makes sense.
BUT how about when I went into eff it mode due to comments here and other references, and added it back to my diet. The symptoms returned. Psychosomatic?
It certainly doesn't hurt me to not eat the things I have eliminated. I still eat enough fiber, macros are good (when I log them LOL)
What if I have a wheat allergy, how would I know this? Is using the word gluten what is so inflammatory?
I don't know. I'm sorry, but I think being willing to say "I don't know" is an important part of problem solving. Too many times the chiropractor who refuses to stick with back adjustment or the homeopath suggests the flavor of the month boogeyman. And, to answer your last question, that is why the discussion of gluten has become inflammatory. Many of us recognize this as a trend. We've been down this road before with other foods and their supposed toxicity or miracle properties. Again, step back, rethink what may be really going on, and keep an open mind as the studies come in and give us a clearer picture.
ETA: have you ever been tested for allergies?
First let me say "I don't know" is an acceptable answer.
This is my end result of 3 years of horrid health. For me, this is what makes me feel healthier. I am not sure where to go from this point and the doctors just say "IBS or Migraine, no cure here are some pills" Seriously, until I brought up diet changes not a one suggested it. Yet when I told them what I had been doing they scribbled furiously in the notes. Two of them spoke of on going studies. (Ortho and Neuro),
ETA: I have been tested for all types of allergies. The kind where my entire back and both arms were pricked. Mold and some grass. No food allergies where detected.
Then I don't think we have much, if any, disagreement. Allergies tests suck, I had them on three separate occasions growing up in my parents' hunt for what kept hospitalizing me. I finally gave up. I still don't have an answer and I'm 41, but I largely outgrew it all. The asthma is at least now manageable. Good luck, and I mean it.0 -
If there were a wheat "allergy," then why would this allergy not be testable like other known allergens? Why wouldn't gluten get a reaction in the IgE skin test?
it's not an allergy, it's an intolerance in the GI tract. Lactose intolerance is loss of the enzyme in the GI tract that breaks the lactose down as it travels through the digestive system. There are different levels of the intolerance, based on the level of loss of the enzyme. It won't show up in a skin test because it's not the same thing as an allergy, as an anaphylactic reaction. The gluten isn't able to be broken down appropriately by the digestive system and absorbed into the body as nutrients, so the body reacts poorly to it.0 -
if i may let me stop you in your tracks, people who assume they are celiacs or are self diagnosed as gluten sensitive are the exact same people who sit in a restaurant, complain about not having enough gluten free options and frown about it over a pint of beer, in the end its people just being people and finding the need to feel "special"
i see this everyday and have seen it for almost 10 years, the worst are vegans and vegetarians but people alleging to be gluten or dairy sensitive are just as bad, considering they will eat gelato after drinking a beer
(to clarity beer has gluten, yet these people drink it right in front of me after alleging to be "gluten free"
to quote one of my favorite tv characters
"people are *kitten* coated *kitten* with *kitten* filling"
it has less to do with allergies and sensitivities and more with people feeling the need to be jerks and special
trust me i'm right, i see this every single day and it has become a source of entertainment for me so in the end to quote the joker
"thats why i'm always smiling"
I've dealt with a number of doctors who treat me like an imbecile and dismiss my concerns and won't even consider a blood test to confirm (or rule out) something (even something that was previously diagnosed by one of said doctors, but the symptoms went into remission for a time and I suspected they were coming back). I've also seen a number of people who have dealt with the same thing, all of which actually had a diagnosable condition that was proven when they pried the tests out of their doctors. Therefore, all doctors must be arrogant jerks who think that because we don't have a doctorate, we're idiots who can't even make observations about the very bodies we live in.
See? I can do it, too. Sweeping generalizations suck, don't they?
Not all of us who go gluten free (or try to), regardless of the reason, are clueless about what has gluten in it. Treating all of us as though we're the hypocrites you've encountered just leads to us seeking medical help from people other than those like you.0 -
Here we go… another person who tries to tell others that their physical symptoms aren't real.
Apparently, a lot of other persons who are trying to say that those with real physical symptons or who have been diagnosed by medical professional can't really have this - because, hey, it doens't exist!0 -
I went to PF Changs once. Tried ordering their gluten free food. The waiter there told me I didnt need it. I was like excuse me, its on the menu, thats what I want. The little effer wouldnt serve it to me.
No tip for you DB.
I just wanted to taste what "gluten free" food tastes like as I highly doubt many people would recognize or know if their food was gluten free.
Similar to when Penn & Teller gave outside hose water to customers in a restaurant and listed it on the menu as from the Swiss Alps or something for $7 or $8 a glass. What was even funnier was when the wait staff brought the customers what they thought was a different type of water, but it was from the same hose and then they were somehow able to determine that one glass of water tasted different and was better than the other.
The gluten free variety does taste different. I've tasted them side by side, before. Of course, you'll probably just dismiss it as bias, because I knew that they were supposed to be different. The problem with using taste as a gauge is that taste is subjective (just ask the person who can taste the bitter compounds in coffee vs the person who can't). Most people I know, though, don't go by taste when it comes to the gluten (or other allergen/sensitivity) content in their food, but rather by the level of bloating they get, how often and how long they have to use the restroom (to put it nicely), how much their eczema flairs up, and a number of other indicators that they've crossed their tolerance threshold.
That said, your waiter was a DB. I hope you talked to the manager about him. A restaurant shouldn't deny you a food you request just because they think you "don't need it." It doesn't matter what someone does and doesn't "need" (outside of the need for allergen/sensitivity purposes). I don't need cottage cheese instead of a salad, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to order the cottage cheese. Likewise, for all the waiter knew, you liked the taste of the gluten free variety better, and that's why you were ordering it.0 -
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
Methinks you put a little too much faith in conventional/modern medicine, especially when it comes to systemic and neurological disorders (fibro, migraines, etc).
The simple truth of the matter is that modern medicine does not know nearly as much as people think it does, especially in the above two areas. Even the term "migraine" is a catch-all for a number of different subtypes, none of which have any officially known cause. Things like SIDS (and, as mentioned, IBS, and formerly fibro, among other things) are basically fancy terms for "we don't know WTF is going on, but nothing else that we know of fits." It used to be believed that females couldn't even have Autism, or that males could be anorexic (the mental disorder part). Even Celiac has actually been known about for millennia, and only in the past couple of decades have there been anything even remotely reaching a half-decent diagnosis rate (seriously, the Celiac societies are ecstatic to think that diagnostic accuracy will reach 50% a decade from now; that is abysmal).
By all means, work with your doctor to try to find the solve the problem. Just don't expect that there's always a known answer, or that there's some test that can confirm beyond a doubt that you have X disorder. The reality is that such things simply don't (yet) exist for a very large portion of non-communicable diseases/disorders.
Methinks you should read what I wrote
I did, and you've made it pretty clear that you feel like there's always an answer to be found. Unfortunately, that's often not the case, especially when it comes to neurological and systemic issues. There are many situations in which even the specialists throw up their hands and say "sorry, I'm at a loss, good luck," and driving oneself even deeper into debt trying to find a doctor who might have an idea of what's going on becomes less and less feasible, especially when a dietary change is the only thing that actually brings results.0 -
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
Methinks you put a little too much faith in conventional/modern medicine, especially when it comes to systemic and neurological disorders (fibro, migraines, etc).
The simple truth of the matter is that modern medicine does not know nearly as much as people think it does, especially in the above two areas. Even the term "migraine" is a catch-all for a number of different subtypes, none of which have any officially known cause. Things like SIDS (and, as mentioned, IBS, and formerly fibro, among other things) are basically fancy terms for "we don't know WTF is going on, but nothing else that we know of fits." It used to be believed that females couldn't even have Autism, or that males could be anorexic (the mental disorder part). Even Celiac has actually been known about for millennia, and only in the past couple of decades have there been anything even remotely reaching a half-decent diagnosis rate (seriously, the Celiac societies are ecstatic to think that diagnostic accuracy will reach 50% a decade from now; that is abysmal).
By all means, work with your doctor to try to find the solve the problem. Just don't expect that there's always a known answer, or that there's some test that can confirm beyond a doubt that you have X disorder. The reality is that such things simply don't (yet) exist for a very large portion of non-communicable diseases/disorders.
Methinks you should read what I wrote
I did, and you've made it pretty clear that you feel like there's always an answer to be found. Unfortunately, that's often not the case, especially when it comes to neurological and systemic issues. There are many situations in which even the specialists throw up their hands and say "sorry, I'm at a loss, good luck," and driving oneself even deeper into debt trying to find a doctor who might have an idea of what's going on becomes less and less feasible, especially when a dietary change is the only thing that actually brings results.
You seem to be completely ignoring the words I've written and are instead projecting your desire for an argument onto me. Reread. What. I. Wrote. Sometimes we don't know what the answer is. That's life. Keep an open mind and don't rush to judgment. That said, giving up on science and running to the homepaths isn't the answer either. Though I'm not sure that's your position and I think it would be out of character when I consider your posting history. How that has me putting too much faith in modern medicine is baffling.0 -
Soo what i took from the original article is that they are arguing the accuracy of self diagnosis as the problem, not a whole lot of concrete evidence to support whether the sensitivity itself exists or not. Just a bunch of manipulation of words by mainstream media. 147 completed the survey. 62% actually had celiac disease and the majority of the rest just seemed like a process of elimination because they didn't meet the proper criteria to be apart of the experiment.
Not to mention an experiment done on 147 people (130 of which are female) and all from Melbourne, Australia.... IMO the trial size is too small, lacks randomization and the majority of the subjects are considered not fit for the study, so it's not 100% valid in my books. I do agree that some self diagnosed gluten sensitivities may actually be caused by allergies or diseases other than gluten, but i don't know if i can agree that the sensitivities don't exist at all. Considering the symptoms i experience, I'm definitely not touching it. Of course because science can't test for it yet it'll probably go back and forth for a while until it can be proved either way. Sort of like she "proved" it one way for so many years and now is trying to take it back.
The body is amazing thing! Far beyond our understanding in many ways that's for sure. Has anyone found any additional peer reviewed articles on this topic ooor?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23648697
This one still has a very small sample size (37) but it seems well controlled, at least to my admittedly untrained eye.
The problem with the study is it's still self identified (we all know how many hypochondriacs there are out there). I would love to see this study done on people whose medical conditions can be linked to a gluten sensitivity. I know for my wife's condition (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome), she has to eat low carb and gluten free. Discussions between a GI, Endo, Cardiologist, Electrophysiologist and POTS specialist all suggested the same diet. While the below is not a study, but the below link is informative in terms of diet for my wife's condition.
http://www.dysautonomiainternational.org/page.php?ID=44
I agree it seems to be more of an indictment of self-diagnosis than anything, although the results re: gluten vs. FODMAPS are interesting.
Personally I continue to be torn on most issues of this kind. I put my faith in science. However I also know what it's like to feel like science hasn't yet arrived at a satisfactory conclusion for a medical issue (I have been diagnosed with fibromyalgia and lupus, but neither diagnosis completely fits). I try not to fall into the mindset of "science must be wrong because of (insert anecdotal evidence here)" but I'm also not ready to write off the issues of a lot of people with genuine symptoms just yet.
Fibromyalgia is of great interest to me. It used to be a diagnosis when no other diagnosis fit, like IBS.
If you as the patient try different things to reduce your pain (from what I hear it is horrible :frown: ) and it works, but no doctor has told you that it will help.......or no scientific studies exist to say so, do you just pop the Lyrica? (not you per se)
It just seems very odd to me that so many people who do not suffer from my issues, can so blatantly insinuate I am a hypochondriac.
It was only 10 years go that Fibromyalgia was thought of the same. Now we have more information, and KNOW it exists!
BTW, you are one of my heroes :drinker:
Honestly? I don't know, and that's the truth.
I know that for myself, if a study came out tomorrow that found no evidence of fibro as we currently understand it, but pointed to another solution I wouldn't be quick to write off that study. I want the truth, even if it is painful. Even if it means I was wrong.
People often ask me, on a separate but related topic, why I don't seek out alternative medicine for relief. They'll say things like "even if it just the placebo effect, isn't that better than nothing?" For me, the answer is no. I'd rather have the truth. For others . . . well, that's their call to make.
But again, this is one study with a small sample size. It's a start, but I am not convinced that it proves anything other than that people are terrible at self-diagnosis, and that FODMAPS might be an area on which to focus in the future.
:flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
edited to correct a dangling preposition0 -
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
Methinks you put a little too much faith in conventional/modern medicine, especially when it comes to systemic and neurological disorders (fibro, migraines, etc).
The simple truth of the matter is that modern medicine does not know nearly as much as people think it does, especially in the above two areas. Even the term "migraine" is a catch-all for a number of different subtypes, none of which have any officially known cause. Things like SIDS (and, as mentioned, IBS, and formerly fibro, among other things) are basically fancy terms for "we don't know WTF is going on, but nothing else that we know of fits." It used to be believed that females couldn't even have Autism, or that males could be anorexic (the mental disorder part). Even Celiac has actually been known about for millennia, and only in the past couple of decades have there been anything even remotely reaching a half-decent diagnosis rate (seriously, the Celiac societies are ecstatic to think that diagnostic accuracy will reach 50% a decade from now; that is abysmal).
By all means, work with your doctor to try to find the solve the problem. Just don't expect that there's always a known answer, or that there's some test that can confirm beyond a doubt that you have X disorder. The reality is that such things simply don't (yet) exist for a very large portion of non-communicable diseases/disorders.
Methinks you should read what I wrote
I did, and you've made it pretty clear that you feel like there's always an answer to be found. Unfortunately, that's often not the case, especially when it comes to neurological and systemic issues. There are many situations in which even the specialists throw up their hands and say "sorry, I'm at a loss, good luck," and driving oneself even deeper into debt trying to find a doctor who might have an idea of what's going on becomes less and less feasible, especially when a dietary change is the only thing that actually brings results.
You seem to be completely ignoring the words I've written and are instead projecting your desire for an argument onto me. Reread. What. I. Wrote. Sometimes we don't know what the answer is. That's life. Keep an open mind and don't rush to judgment. That said, giving up on science and running to the homepaths isn't the answer either. Though I'm not sure that's your position and I think it would be out of character when I consider your posting history. How that has me putting too much faith in modern medicine is baffling.
Right? Because if modern medicine always had the answer, we'd have a cure for cancer, and heart disease, and no one would ever die.0 -
I just saw this today and thought it was interesting and relevant.
Randomised clinical trial: gluten may cause depression in subjects with non-coeliac gluten sensitivity - an exploratory clinical study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24689456Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Current evidence suggests that many patients with self-reported non-coeliac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) retain gastrointestinal symptoms on a gluten-free diet (GFD) but continue to restrict gluten as they report 'feeling better'.
AIM:
To investigate the notion that a major effect of gluten in those with NCGS is on mental state and not necessarily on gastrointestinal symptoms.
METHODS:
Twenty-two subjects (24-62 years, five male) with irritable bowel syndrome who had coeliac disease excluded but were symptomatically controlled on a GFD, undertook a double-blind cross-over study. Participants randomly received one of three dietary challenges for 3 days, followed by a minimum 3-day washout before crossing over to the next diet. Challenge gluten-free food was supplemented with gluten (16 g/day), whey (16 g/day) or not supplemented (placebo). End-points included mental state as assessed by the Spielberger State Trait Personality Inventory (STPI), cortisol secretion and gastrointestinal symptoms.
RESULTS:
Gluten ingestion was associated with higher overall STPI state depression scores compared to placebo [M = 2.03, 95% CI (0.55-3.51), P = 0.010] but not whey [M = 1.48, 95% CI (-0.14 to 3.10), P = 0.07]. No differences were found for other STPI state indices or for any STPI trait measures. No difference in cortisol secretion was identified between challenges. Gastrointestinal symptoms were induced similarly across all dietary challenges.
CONCLUSIONS:
Short-term exposure to gluten specifically induced current feelings of depression with no effect on other indices or on emotional disposition. Gluten-specific induction of gastrointestinal symptoms was not identified. Such findings might explain why patients with non-coeliac gluten sensitivity feel better on a gluten-free diet despite the continuation of gastrointestinal symptoms.0 -
No. I'm not saying that you should ignore what your body is telling you. Even if it is completely psychosomatic, and I'm not saying that, but I would continue to search for what is really going on. I had a similar effect from the Fit for Life Diet many years ago, and after reading the refutation of the theory behind it I finally concluded that my improvements were a combination of simply eating better and, perhaps, psychosomatic. I also went through a similar search when I was a kid for my severe allergy and asthma triggers. This area is, for me, very interesting.
As far as the responses in here, they are from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Typical and definitely to be expected.
Methinks you put a little too much faith in conventional/modern medicine, especially when it comes to systemic and neurological disorders (fibro, migraines, etc).
The simple truth of the matter is that modern medicine does not know nearly as much as people think it does, especially in the above two areas. Even the term "migraine" is a catch-all for a number of different subtypes, none of which have any officially known cause. Things like SIDS (and, as mentioned, IBS, and formerly fibro, among other things) are basically fancy terms for "we don't know WTF is going on, but nothing else that we know of fits." It used to be believed that females couldn't even have Autism, or that males could be anorexic (the mental disorder part). Even Celiac has actually been known about for millennia, and only in the past couple of decades have there been anything even remotely reaching a half-decent diagnosis rate (seriously, the Celiac societies are ecstatic to think that diagnostic accuracy will reach 50% a decade from now; that is abysmal).
By all means, work with your doctor to try to find the solve the problem. Just don't expect that there's always a known answer, or that there's some test that can confirm beyond a doubt that you have X disorder. The reality is that such things simply don't (yet) exist for a very large portion of non-communicable diseases/disorders.
Methinks you should read what I wrote
I did, and you've made it pretty clear that you feel like there's always an answer to be found. Unfortunately, that's often not the case, especially when it comes to neurological and systemic issues. There are many situations in which even the specialists throw up their hands and say "sorry, I'm at a loss, good luck," and driving oneself even deeper into debt trying to find a doctor who might have an idea of what's going on becomes less and less feasible, especially when a dietary change is the only thing that actually brings results.
You seem to be completely ignoring the words I've written and are instead projecting your desire for an argument onto me. Reread. What. I. Wrote. Sometimes we don't know what the answer is. That's life. Keep an open mind and don't rush to judgment. That said, giving up on science and running to the homepaths isn't the answer either. Though I'm not sure that's your position and I think it would be out of character when I consider your posting history. How that has me putting too much faith in modern medicine is baffling.
Right? Because if modern medicine always had the answer, we'd have a cure for cancer, and heart disease, and no one would ever die.
Logic, like statistics and parsing language, is so difficult0 -
I was once diagnosed with IBS. This was 20 years ago, before the whole gluten fad. I had terrible digestive issues, painful bloating after every meal to the point that I would sometimes have to leave work early and go home to lie down. This went on for years.
It went away. I never took medication for it, I never eliminated anything from my diet, but eventually it just went away all by itself.
Not a statistically significant story, but neither are the other anecdotes offered by other members.
I'm actually wonder how much of these "sensitivities" and digestive dysfunctions are caused by disruption in the intestinal flora. We already know that poop transplants help people with Chrohn's disease because it restores the flora. Have any of you with these sensitivies and conditions been on antibiotics before? (Probably a silly question, these days everyone has been on antibiotics numerous times). Do you take a probiotic?0 -
I just saw this today and thought it was interesting and relevant.
Randomised clinical trial: gluten may cause depression in subjects with non-coeliac gluten sensitivity - an exploratory clinical study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24689456Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Current evidence suggests that many patients with self-reported non-coeliac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) retain gastrointestinal symptoms on a gluten-free diet (GFD) but continue to restrict gluten as they report 'feeling better'.
AIM:
To investigate the notion that a major effect of gluten in those with NCGS is on mental state and not necessarily on gastrointestinal symptoms.
METHODS:
Twenty-two subjects (24-62 years, five male) with irritable bowel syndrome who had coeliac disease excluded but were symptomatically controlled on a GFD, undertook a double-blind cross-over study. Participants randomly received one of three dietary challenges for 3 days, followed by a minimum 3-day washout before crossing over to the next diet. Challenge gluten-free food was supplemented with gluten (16 g/day), whey (16 g/day) or not supplemented (placebo). End-points included mental state as assessed by the Spielberger State Trait Personality Inventory (STPI), cortisol secretion and gastrointestinal symptoms.
RESULTS:
Gluten ingestion was associated with higher overall STPI state depression scores compared to placebo [M = 2.03, 95% CI (0.55-3.51), P = 0.010] but not whey [M = 1.48, 95% CI (-0.14 to 3.10), P = 0.07]. No differences were found for other STPI state indices or for any STPI trait measures. No difference in cortisol secretion was identified between challenges. Gastrointestinal symptoms were induced similarly across all dietary challenges.
CONCLUSIONS:
Short-term exposure to gluten specifically induced current feelings of depression with no effect on other indices or on emotional disposition. Gluten-specific induction of gastrointestinal symptoms was not identified. Such findings might explain why patients with non-coeliac gluten sensitivity feel better on a gluten-free diet despite the continuation of gastrointestinal symptoms.
I feel badly for the poor people who feel a bit low when eating gluten, but that's certainly not what happens when I eat it.0 -
I just saw this today and thought it was interesting and relevant.
Randomised clinical trial: gluten may cause depression in subjects with non-coeliac gluten sensitivity - an exploratory clinical study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24689456Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Current evidence suggests that many patients with self-reported non-coeliac gluten sensitivity (NCGS) retain gastrointestinal symptoms on a gluten-free diet (GFD) but continue to restrict gluten as they report 'feeling better'.
AIM:
To investigate the notion that a major effect of gluten in those with NCGS is on mental state and not necessarily on gastrointestinal symptoms.
METHODS:
Twenty-two subjects (24-62 years, five male) with irritable bowel syndrome who had coeliac disease excluded but were symptomatically controlled on a GFD, undertook a double-blind cross-over study. Participants randomly received one of three dietary challenges for 3 days, followed by a minimum 3-day washout before crossing over to the next diet. Challenge gluten-free food was supplemented with gluten (16 g/day), whey (16 g/day) or not supplemented (placebo). End-points included mental state as assessed by the Spielberger State Trait Personality Inventory (STPI), cortisol secretion and gastrointestinal symptoms.
RESULTS:
Gluten ingestion was associated with higher overall STPI state depression scores compared to placebo [M = 2.03, 95% CI (0.55-3.51), P = 0.010] but not whey [M = 1.48, 95% CI (-0.14 to 3.10), P = 0.07]. No differences were found for other STPI state indices or for any STPI trait measures. No difference in cortisol secretion was identified between challenges. Gastrointestinal symptoms were induced similarly across all dietary challenges.
CONCLUSIONS:
Short-term exposure to gluten specifically induced current feelings of depression with no effect on other indices or on emotional disposition. Gluten-specific induction of gastrointestinal symptoms was not identified. Such findings might explain why patients with non-coeliac gluten sensitivity feel better on a gluten-free diet despite the continuation of gastrointestinal symptoms.
I feel badly for the poor people who feel a bit low when eating gluten, but that's certainly not what happens when I eat it.
Pretty sure I have the opposite reaction0 -
Is butter a gluten?0
-
You seem to be completely ignoring the words I've written and are instead projecting your desire for an argument onto me. Reread. What. I. Wrote. Sometimes we don't know what the answer is. That's life. Keep an open mind and don't rush to judgment. That said, giving up on science and running to the homepaths isn't the answer either. Though I'm not sure that's your position and I think it would be out of character when I consider your posting history. How that has me putting too much faith in modern medicine is baffling.
I wasn't trying to start an argument where the was none. There's enough of that on here as it is. I've reread what you've written a couple of times and even went back a few posts, but my conclusion still sticks. Maybe it's too late dismantle the cognitive bias based on what's already been written, for whatever reason, but it does/did honestly seem to me like you're expecting a little more out of modern/conventional medicine than what is currently there, especially for the case of fibro/migraines (not necessarily to the point of blind following and the idea medicine always has all the answers and is infallible, just more than what it can deliver currently). Given your opposition to my conclusion, that's not your actual stance, so evidently, there's a disconnect somewhere. *shrug* It happens. I don't know where the communication broke down, but obviously it happened somewhere, and for the misunderstanding, I do apologize. :flowerforyou: (On a side note - It'd be nice if the forums were a little better threaded, so it'd be easier to follow a specific conversation.)
Where you able to find the underlying cause of your asthma and allergies? (Honest curiosity.)0 -
You are, indeed, self-diagnosing when you do not allow your doctors to perform the necessary tests to confirm or deny the existence of a condition. Self-medication does not always involve "black market drugs".Yes I am a volunteer mod, but only a member just like yourself.
I am not self diagnosed, and have not started to take medication off the black market
All I did was take all the info I had to my doctors, asked if removing this item from my diet could 'hurt' me and of course it cannot.
My neurologist (migraines) said the studies are ongoing. He agreed with me that if the removal of gluten was the only change, it is likely it is helping with my migraine threshold
My gastro tested me for celiac, I had an endo and colonoscopy, and blood test for allergies 1 month AFTER I stopped gluten. I refused to go back on for a month so they could draw my blood again to see if I came back positive. He agreed this change in diet 'could' be helping me, but without the blood test would not confirm. He was, however happy with the results.
The ortho said that he is excited about the information coming around about gluten and it's effect on the body. Mainly the inflammation it can cause. He of course could not confirm removing gluten was the cause of my no longer having pain in my hands and feet, but is hopeful.
Not one doctor of mine said "BS go eat some bread and a muffin!"
So I hope this clears things up. I am a volunteer moderator-and I am indeed not self diagnosed, I have been to many doctors who agree with my issues and that removal of this item will in no way hurt me.
Your doctors have more patients than you to care for. You are insisting that removing gluten from your diet has improved symptoms and do not appear to have a serious medical condition. As a result, your doctors are happy to let you believe what you want as long as it gets you out of their office and allows them to treat their next patient of the day. Cutting gluten out of your diet, however unnecessary, will probably not hurt you, after all.0 -
You seem to be completely ignoring the words I've written and are instead projecting your desire for an argument onto me. Reread. What. I. Wrote. Sometimes we don't know what the answer is. That's life. Keep an open mind and don't rush to judgment. That said, giving up on science and running to the homepaths isn't the answer either. Though I'm not sure that's your position and I think it would be out of character when I consider your posting history. How that has me putting too much faith in modern medicine is baffling.
I wasn't trying to start an argument where the was none. There's enough of that on here as it is. I've reread what you've written a couple of times and even went back a few posts, but my conclusion still sticks. Maybe it's too late dismantle the cognitive bias based on what's already been written, for whatever reason, but it does/did honestly seem to me like you're expecting a little more out of modern/conventional medicine than what is currently there, especially for the case of fibro/migraines (not necessarily to the point of blind following and the idea medicine always has all the answers and is infallible, just more than what it can deliver currently). Given your opposition to my conclusion, that's not your actual stance, so evidently, there's a disconnect somewhere. *shrug* It happens. I don't know where the communication broke down, but obviously it happened somewhere, and for the misunderstanding, I do apologize. :flowerforyou: (On a side note - It'd be nice if the forums were a little better threaded, so it'd be easier to follow a specific conversation.)
Where you able to find the underlying cause of your asthma and allergies? (Honest curiosity.)
I'm honestly confused here, but meh.
With regard to my allergies and asthma, I posted about it above. To give more detail, I went through three full rounds of tests from the ages of around 2 to 15. I was allergic to pretty much everything according to those tests. I took shots for a good time. Nothing worked except time. I find the modern OTC treatments help with the few symptoms I still have left and I continue to use the inhaler occasionally.
For the record, I've said nothing about fibro in this thread. I will say that my wife was diagnosed with it. That was another fun diagnostic exercise. I still wouldn't trust a homeopath for help, anymore than I would a witch doctor.0 -
I thought this was the thread where we only said nice things about gluten so as not to hurt its feelings.
Looks like I was very *very* wrong about that.0 -
I was once diagnosed with IBS. This was 20 years ago, before the whole gluten fad. I had terrible digestive issues, painful bloating after every meal to the point that I would sometimes have to leave work early and go home to lie down. This went on for years.
It went away. I never took medication for it, I never eliminated anything from my diet, but eventually it just went away all by itself.
Not a statistically significant story, but neither are the other anecdotes offered by other members.
I'm actually wonder how much of these "sensitivities" and digestive dysfunctions are caused by disruption in the intestinal flora. We already know that poop transplants help people with Chrohn's disease because it restores the flora. Have any of you with these sensitivies and conditions been on antibiotics before? (Probably a silly question, these days everyone has been on antibiotics numerous times). Do you take a probiotic?
I take probiotics daily, but not in the beginning. I added this later to my regime.0
This discussion has been closed.
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