Why Aspartame Isn't Scary

Options
1…6162646667…89

Replies

  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    stealthq wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    stealthq wrote: »
    Totally cribbing this from an overview of a study comparing methanol metabolism in mice vs. primates (linked below) that I have not read in depth. But, I thought it may help clear up the questions on methanol buildup:

    "The mouse model for human developmental toxicity of methanol is contentious because of the differences in formate oxidation. However, human exposures to environmental methanol are unlikely to produce blood levels saturating this pathway, so formate buildup would be unlikely; indeed, monkeys exposed to 2000 ppm showed no formate accumulation. Thus, methanol rather than formate may be the proximate toxicant in humans, and in the mouse higher exposures of methanol can be studied without formate accumulation. Oxidation of methanol by catalase in mice vs. ADH in humans may also be important."

    https://cfpub.epa.gov/si/si_public_record_Report.cfm?dirEntryId=153763&CFID=81868876&CFTOKEN=70698412

    There is often differences between mice and rats in terms of small molecule metabolism as well and the study in question was done in rats. I know mice have considerably different cyp P450s so their metabolic profile for small molecules can be quite different than rats or humans. Although cyp P450s I don't think are involved in methanol metabolism.

    Methanol metabolism is very similar for mice and rats as far as using catalase vs. ADH in humans. Obviously, there can always be differences in the kinetics given the enzymes are likely orthologous and not identical in amino acid sequence.

    Okay, I'll admit I don't know anything about alcohol metabolism in rodents for some reason. I know...crazy :-)
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    stealthq wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    stealthq wrote: »
    Totally cribbing this from an overview of a study comparing methanol metabolism in mice vs. primates (linked below) that I have not read in depth. But, I thought it may help clear up the questions on methanol buildup:

    "The mouse model for human developmental toxicity of methanol is contentious because of the differences in formate oxidation. However, human exposures to environmental methanol are unlikely to produce blood levels saturating this pathway, so formate buildup would be unlikely; indeed, monkeys exposed to 2000 ppm showed no formate accumulation. Thus, methanol rather than formate may be the proximate toxicant in humans, and in the mouse higher exposures of methanol can be studied without formate accumulation. Oxidation of methanol by catalase in mice vs. ADH in humans may also be important."

    https://cfpub.epa.gov/si/si_public_record_Report.cfm?dirEntryId=153763&CFID=81868876&CFTOKEN=70698412

    There is often differences between mice and rats in terms of small molecule metabolism as well and the study in question was done in rats. I know mice have considerably different cyp P450s so their metabolic profile for small molecules can be quite different than rats or humans. Although cyp P450s I don't think are involved in methanol metabolism.

    Methanol metabolism is very similar for mice and rats as far as using catalase vs. ADH in humans. Obviously, there can always be differences in the kinetics given the enzymes are likely orthologous and not identical in amino acid sequence.

    Okay, I'll admit I don't know anything about alcohol metabolism in rodents for some reason. I know...crazy :-)

    Come on!!! Why not?
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »

    Okay, I'll admit I don't know anything about alcohol metabolism in rodents for some reason. I know...crazy :-)

    Geez. And here I thought I had found my new hero....

  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    edited November 2016
    Options
    I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject ;) I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood ;) sounds like fun!
  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    Options
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject ;) I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood ;) sounds like fun!

    So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    Options
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject ;) I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood ;) sounds like fun!

    So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.

    Raises hand, I'll do it! Of course, for science!
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject ;) I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood ;) sounds like fun!

    So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.

    I guess I'll have to use wine so I can have cheese with it ;) though ironically mice aren't overly fond of cheese
  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    Options
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject ;) I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood ;) sounds like fun!

    So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.

    Raises hand, I'll do it! Of course, for science!

    First you must prove you're not a mouse!
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject ;) I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood ;) sounds like fun!

    So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.

    I guess I'll have to use wine so I can have cheese with it ;) though ironically mice aren't overly fond of cheese

    I love that you are both willing to take one for the (science) team :wink:
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    queenliz99 wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject ;) I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood ;) sounds like fun!

    So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.

    Raises hand, I'll do it! Of course, for science!

    First you must prove you're not a mouse!
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I'm thinking this calls for an experiment. I can volunteer myself as the subject ;) I'm on infliximab which is an iv biologic that includes mouse proteins so technically I have mouse DNA in my blood ;) sounds like fun!

    So basically, you're getting drunk tonight and sharing the results? I like it. We need a non-mouse DNA participant as a control. I'd volunteer if I didn't have to get up at 5 am.

    I guess I'll have to use wine so I can have cheese with it ;) though ironically mice aren't overly fond of cheese

    I love that you are both willing to take one for the (science) team :wink:

    NP always willing to do my part for furthering scientific knowledge
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
    Options
    stevencloser wrote: »
    Did someone say mouse DNA?

    Did someone say drunk tonight?
  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    Options
    Hornsby wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    Did someone say mouse DNA?

    Did someone say drunk tonight?

    At least someone has his priorities straight! :laugh:
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Options
    I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure. :smile:
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    edited November 2016
    Options
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure. :smile:

    I was watching supervet and there was a dog with ethylene glycol poisoning and they didn't have have pure ethanol at the clinic so Noel Fitzpatrick cured it with iv vodka.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Options
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure. :smile:

    I was watching supervet and there was a dog with ethylene glycol poisoning and they didn't have have pure methanol at the clinic so Noel Fitzpatrick cured it with iv vodka.

    Some cures are better than others.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    Options
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure. :smile:

    I was watching supervet and there was a dog with ethylene glycol poisoning and they didn't have have pure methanol at the clinic so Noel Fitzpatrick cured it with iv vodka.

    Some cures are better than others.

    Oops ethanol not methanol! The recovery time from the treatment was interesting. The "poor" thing was super intoxicated
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure. :smile:

    So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure. :smile:

    So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.

    I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....

    Time for more Crown :)
  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    Options
    grmckenzie wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure. :smile:

    So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.

    I take it to mean it is safe to drink diet coke as a mixer....

    Time for more Crown :)

    This is my interpretation too. I can volunteer as test subject tonight.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Options
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    I saw on House that the cure for methanol is ethanol and I'll just get right to the cure. :smile:

    So it's safe to drink diet coke just as long as you get drunk afterwords.

    That study deserves funding!

Categories