OK Ladies...Be HONEST!!

PRMinx

I agree with what you are saying. But people putting me in a rap-ist catagory is wrong. The OP asked for an honest opinion, I gave it. I have read everyone's opinion. Is it so hard to read one that is a little harder to swallow?

No one is calling you a rapist.

It's not about a "hard to swallow" opinion. It's about dangerous rhetoric that can be taken the wrong way by a bad person. It's shocking to me that, as a woman, you can't understand this.

If a woman says she doesn't like the attention, then it's best that everyone assumes she doesn't like the attention. Then there is no confusion and no potential harm. Period. End of story.

Who said I don't understand? I do. Not one person on this site has walked in my shoes...do not be so ready to judge me.

No, you don't understand. Or at least you are not communicating your understanding very well.

It's a public forum. I can, and I will, judge the posts I read. We all do. I don't know you, but I know what you said and I know what you promote. That's enough for me.

PRMinx

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

The debate has morphed off of your original post. We know you weren't inquiring about rape culture.

When a woman states on a public forum that women lie when they say they don't want unsolicited male attention, it's going to be addressed by the other women in the thread. It's not about being oversensitive, it's about being very clear for the sake of others that this claim simply isn't true.

When you need go running with a rape whistle in you hand, then we can talk about over sensitivity. Ok?

TheVirgoddess

I agree with what you are saying. But people putting me in a rap-ist catagory is wrong. The OP asked for an honest opinion, I gave it. I have read everyone's opinion. Is it so hard to read one that is a little harder to swallow?

No one is calling you a rapist.

It's not about a "hard to swallow" opinion. It's about dangerous rhetoric that can be taken the wrong way by a bad person. It's shocking to me that, as a woman, you can't understand this.

If a woman says she doesn't like the attention, then it's best that everyone assumes she doesn't like the attention. Then there is no confusion and no potential harm. Period. End of story.

Who said I don't understand? I do. Not one person on this site has walked in my shoes...do not be so ready to judge me.

*head desk*

You said (direct quote here): Women lie...they like it. Sorry ladies you do. (Listen to this old bag she knows)

Perhaps you should stop making sweeping, harmful generalizations about an ENTIRE gender before putting your butthurt shoes on and throwing a parade. Srsly.

Hophead43

I heard something on the radio this morning that got me thinking.

Thinking is a bad idea. Men aren't designed that way apparently #MFPlogic

Do good looking women really dislike it when guys check them out at the gym???

Some do and some don't I would guess. Some mind it one day and then might not mind it the next. Some dislike it all the time. Some dislike it none of the time. I don't think being "good looking" or not has anything to do with it so that qualification was a bit pointless.

I'm starting to think that if they didn't there would be more Curves opening up.

That's a pretty weak assumption. I am guessing many people find changing gyms is like changing bank - it is a right pain in the *kitten* because of the perceived barriers to changing without disruption such as distance, pricing, availability and so on. I think it is more likely that many women just grin and bear being in situations they feel uncomfortable in because they really want to work out. Seems to me it is better if attitudes in general change if required.

I'm sure it can be a pain when guys hit on you but do you really mind some looks???

See above

I know if I was looking good I would be motivated and flattered by a woman checking me out.

That's nice dear. That said it can be distinctly uncomfortable even for a man. If I have time I will tell you the story of the young lady, my thighs and lycra cycling shorts...

Let me know your true feelings. Hell , call me a perverted *kitten* if you want just tell the truth.

You're a perverted, misogynistic *kitten**

*I keed.

So, let me get this straight. Your calling me a unable to think, misogynictic *kitten* because I wanted to know how woman felt about being checked out in the gym. That seems like a snap conclusion without really knowing who I am or what I am about.

Z_I_L_L_A

There is also unwanted female attention. Crazy stalker women. Its more prevalent in men than women but does exist. True also that just because you are older doesn't make you smarter or wiser. Cutting on someones generation and blaming it for the problems of todays world is wrong. Without it where would you be, more positives than negatives I'd bet. Plus just because you are younger doe not make you a know it all even when you think you do.

Ask any 12 year old boy with a cell phone whether there are more crazy male stalker than crazy female stalkers.

Maybe we should start a thread asking men if they like it...be honest now. And if they don't like it, why don't they attend all male schools?

I just said its more prevalent in men?????????? Helloooo

I don't care for it myself and have been stalked at other gyms. I just go to my gym and get my workout done.

likitisplit

Lol ...ok dear. I'm a mother, and a grandmother. I've been around a while. I'm not saying all women lie. I'm saying a lot of girls do. Let's play nice now. Have a nice day:)

You're confusing age with wisdom. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other. You may be older than the average person here, but that doesn't make you more intelligent. From the tone of your posts it only goes to show how far we've come at combating the horrible stereotypes of past generations.

Well like I mentioned before, I do believe women lie. However I apologize for my English as I am a foreigner. You are assuming I am being mean, horrible, a nasty person to all women...I'm not. Young women do tend to stretch the truth. Men lie too. No group is off limits. People lie.

I think the problem here is the context in which you are saying women lie. If I tell a man that I don't want him to leer at me, pursue me, kiss me, grab me and so on, and so forth, then I absolutely mean it. If said man thinks I'm lying and thinks I really like the unwanted attention, where does it stop?

By saying that women are lying when they say they don't want this type of attention, you are basically setting us up for a potentially scary situation. Because, no not all men act like this. But, yes, all women have either had to defend themselves or know of someone who has had to defend themselves from unwanted male attention.

Exactly. This is the problem. You are saying "Women lie. They DO like attention at the gym."

The next step could be: "Women lie. They DO like it when men grab their *kitten* on at the bar."

Followed by: "Women lie. They DO like it when men force them to have sex."

See, the problem? And of course, no, it doesn't always progress that way. But the one, or one hundred times it does, is enough to dictate that we don't say things like this, or make assumptions like this.

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

You asked whether women liked attention.

You assumed that we weren't going to be honest.

You suggested that, if we didn't like it, we would go to all-female gyms.

Examine your premises.

likitisplit

There is also unwanted female attention. Crazy stalker women. Its more prevalent in men than women but does exist. True also that just because you are older doesn't make you smarter or wiser. Cutting on someones generation and blaming it for the problems of todays world is wrong. Without it where would you be, more positives than negatives I'd bet. Plus just because you are younger doe not make you a know it all even when you think you do.

Ask any 12 year old boy with a cell phone whether there are more crazy male stalker than crazy female stalkers.

Maybe we should start a thread asking men if they like it...be honest now. And if they don't like it, why don't they attend all male schools?

I just said its more prevalent in men?????????? Helloooo

I don't care for it myself and have been stalked at other gyms. I just go to my gym and get my workout done.

I don't think that it is more prevalent in men. My own personal "bad penny" is a woman.

Z_I_L_L_A

There is also unwanted female attention. Crazy stalker women. Its more prevalent in men than women but does exist. True also that just because you are older doesn't make you smarter or wiser. Cutting on someones generation and blaming it for the problems of todays world is wrong. Without it where would you be, more positives than negatives I'd bet. Plus just because you are younger doe not make you a know it all even when you think you do.

Ask any 12 year old boy with a cell phone whether there are more crazy male stalker than crazy female stalkers.

Maybe we should start a thread asking men if they like it...be honest now. And if they don't like it, why don't they attend all male schools?

I just said its more prevalent in men?????????? Helloooo

I don't care for it myself and have been stalked at other gyms. I just go to my gym and get my workout done.

I don't think that it is more prevalent in men. My own personal "bad penny" is a woman.

I meant it was more prevalent that the man would be a stalker than a woman.

Hophead43

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

The debate has morphed off of your original post. We know you weren't inquiring about rape culture.

When a woman states on a public forum that women lie when they say they don't want unsolicited male attention, it's going to be addressed by the other women in the thread. It's not about being oversensitive, it's about being very clear for the sake of others that this claim simply isn't true.

When you need go running with a rape whistle in you hand, then we can talk about over sensitivity. Ok?

I feel for you, I really do! I don't think the rape whistle has anything to do with woman lying. The older lady I believe was only speaking on the subject I posted and not on general safety of women. Its a horrible world out there but was also have to try not to be so paranoid as to not be able to enjoy it. Just because I enjoy the form and beauty of a woman does NOT in any way mean my thinking is leaning anywhere towards rape. Maybe I'm missing something in these posts. Just to make a point, rapists are sick people and rape really has almost nothing to do with sex. Its all about having the power.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

Of course not. You most likely don't really know what "rape culture" is. You are assuming it's just people being "overly sensitive". Have you read this yet? Really. Read it. It's written by a man.

https://medium.com/human-parts/a-gentlemens-guide-to-rape-culture-7fc86c50dc4c

Some highlights:

I don’t know about you, but I don’t spend much of my life feeling vulnerable. I’ve come to learn that women spend most of their social lives with ever-present, unavoidable feelings of vulnerability. Stop and think about that. Imagine always feeling like you could be at risk, like you were living with glass skin.

I rarely ever fear for my safety. Many men know exactly what I mean. Most women have no idea what that feels like — to go wherever you want in the world, at any time of day or night, and feel you won’t have a problem. In fact, many women have the exact opposite experience.

A woman must consider where she is going, what time of day it is, what time she will arrive at her destination and what time she will leave her destination, what day of the week is it, if she will be left alone at any point … the considerations go on and on because they are far more numerous than you or I can imagine. Honestly, I can’t conceive of having to think that much about what I need to do to protect myself at any given moment in my life. I relish the freedom of getting up and going, day or night, rain or shine, Westside or downtown. As men we can enjoy this particular extreme luxury of movement and freedom of choice. In order to understand rape culture, remember this is a freedom that at least half the population doesn’t enjoy.

Hophead43

Lol ...ok dear. I'm a mother, and a grandmother. I've been around a while. I'm not saying all women lie. I'm saying a lot of girls do. Let's play nice now. Have a nice day:)

You're confusing age with wisdom. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other. You may be older than the average person here, but that doesn't make you more intelligent. From the tone of your posts it only goes to show how far we've come at combating the horrible stereotypes of past generations.

Well like I mentioned before, I do believe women lie. However I apologize for my English as I am a foreigner. You are assuming I am being mean, horrible, a nasty person to all women...I'm not. Young women do tend to stretch the truth. Men lie too. No group is off limits. People lie.

I think the problem here is the context in which you are saying women lie. If I tell a man that I don't want him to leer at me, pursue me, kiss me, grab me and so on, and so forth, then I absolutely mean it. If said man thinks I'm lying and thinks I really like the unwanted attention, where does it stop?

By saying that women are lying when they say they don't want this type of attention, you are basically setting us up for a potentially scary situation. Because, no not all men act like this. But, yes, all women have either had to defend themselves or know of someone who has had to defend themselves from unwanted male attention.

Exactly. This is the problem. You are saying "Women lie. They DO like attention at the gym."

The next step could be: "Women lie. They DO like it when men grab their *kitten* on at the bar."

Followed by: "Women lie. They DO like it when men force them to have sex."

See, the problem? And of course, no, it doesn't always progress that way. But the one, or one hundred times it does, is enough to dictate that we don't say things like this, or make assumptions like this.

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

You asked whether women liked attention.

You assumed that we weren't going to be honest.

You suggested that, if we didn't like it, we would go to all-female gyms.

Examine your premises.

I never suggested that you go to all female gyms.... I just said that if it was a major issue that there would be more of them. I am happy with the honesty.

likitisplit

Lol ...ok dear. I'm a mother, and a grandmother. I've been around a while. I'm not saying all women lie. I'm saying a lot of girls do. Let's play nice now. Have a nice day:)

You're confusing age with wisdom. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other. You may be older than the average person here, but that doesn't make you more intelligent. From the tone of your posts it only goes to show how far we've come at combating the horrible stereotypes of past generations.

Well like I mentioned before, I do believe women lie. However I apologize for my English as I am a foreigner. You are assuming I am being mean, horrible, a nasty person to all women...I'm not. Young women do tend to stretch the truth. Men lie too. No group is off limits. People lie.

I think the problem here is the context in which you are saying women lie. If I tell a man that I don't want him to leer at me, pursue me, kiss me, grab me and so on, and so forth, then I absolutely mean it. If said man thinks I'm lying and thinks I really like the unwanted attention, where does it stop?

By saying that women are lying when they say they don't want this type of attention, you are basically setting us up for a potentially scary situation. Because, no not all men act like this. But, yes, all women have either had to defend themselves or know of someone who has had to defend themselves from unwanted male attention.

I agree with what you are saying. But people putting me in a rap-ist catagory is wrong. The OP asked for an honest opinion, I gave it. I have read everyone's opinion. Is it so hard to read one that is a little harder to swallow?

I think the safest thing to say is this.

Some women MAY like the attention, but the best bet is always to assume they DON'T.

Fictional conversation:
Person A: "I saw this chick dressed sexy at the gym and I thought she was hot. I stared at her all session long, and then when she walked by, I whispered under my breath "Dayum Girl" She got all huffy and told me to f-off! Said that I was a creep and that she wasn't there for my personal pleasure! Can you believe it?!?"

Person B: "Meh, don't worry about it. The way she was dressed, she clearly wanted it. Women lie all the time"



That's how your statement comes off. Yeah, maybe there is that one girl who DOES actually want the attention. But by saying that women are liars, it comes off as giving the green light to go ahead and act creepy. Not cool.

And for the record... some guys may find sweats and a t sexier than tight yoga pants and sports bra.

To add on to this, the only thing you can control is your own behavior.

If a woman complains to the gym manager, would you rather explain sitting on a bench fiddling with your phone or winking at her?

True story: There was this guy at my office who complained that he felt harassed by every woman in the office. It was addressed. I was questioned about a time that I tripped and caught myself on his shoulders as he was sitting in the chair. It was totally unintentional but, rather than go through that again, I'll choose to face plant on the desk.

likitisplit

Lol ...ok dear. I'm a mother, and a grandmother. I've been around a while. I'm not saying all women lie. I'm saying a lot of girls do. Let's play nice now. Have a nice day:)

You're confusing age with wisdom. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other. You may be older than the average person here, but that doesn't make you more intelligent. From the tone of your posts it only goes to show how far we've come at combating the horrible stereotypes of past generations.

Well like I mentioned before, I do believe women lie. However I apologize for my English as I am a foreigner. You are assuming I am being mean, horrible, a nasty person to all women...I'm not. Young women do tend to stretch the truth. Men lie too. No group is off limits. People lie.

I think the problem here is the context in which you are saying women lie. If I tell a man that I don't want him to leer at me, pursue me, kiss me, grab me and so on, and so forth, then I absolutely mean it. If said man thinks I'm lying and thinks I really like the unwanted attention, where does it stop?

By saying that women are lying when they say they don't want this type of attention, you are basically setting us up for a potentially scary situation. Because, no not all men act like this. But, yes, all women have either had to defend themselves or know of someone who has had to defend themselves from unwanted male attention.

Exactly. This is the problem. You are saying "Women lie. They DO like attention at the gym."

The next step could be: "Women lie. They DO like it when men grab their *kitten* on at the bar."

Followed by: "Women lie. They DO like it when men force them to have sex."

See, the problem? And of course, no, it doesn't always progress that way. But the one, or one hundred times it does, is enough to dictate that we don't say things like this, or make assumptions like this.

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

You asked whether women liked attention.

You assumed that we weren't going to be honest.

You suggested that, if we didn't like it, we would go to all-female gyms.

Examine your premises.

I never suggested that you go to all female gyms.... I just said that if it was a major issue that there would be more of them. I am happy with the honesty.

Honestly, it can be an issue. But, it's a dull roar everywhere. Walking down the road. At the grocery store. Eating in a restaurant. Etc. Etc. Guys assume that it's ok to ogle you. Gyms aren't any better or worse than anywhere else.

The rules I suggested in my post were for everywhere. Just be aware that, in a gym, there are more mirrors.

Hophead43

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

Of course not. You most likely don't really know what "rape culture" is. You are assuming it's just people being "overly sensitive". Have you read this yet? Really. Read it. It's written by a man.

https://medium.com/human-parts/a-gentlemens-guide-to-rape-culture-7fc86c50dc4c

Some highlights:

I don’t know about you, but I don’t spend much of my life feeling vulnerable. I’ve come to learn that women spend most of their social lives with ever-present, unavoidable feelings of vulnerability. Stop and think about that. Imagine always feeling like you could be at risk, like you were living with glass skin.

I rarely ever fear for my safety. Many men know exactly what I mean. Most women have no idea what that feels like — to go wherever you want in the world, at any time of day or night, and feel you won’t have a problem. In fact, many women have the exact opposite experience.

A woman must consider where she is going, what time of day it is, what time she will arrive at her destination and what time she will leave her destination, what day of the week is it, if she will be left alone at any point … the considerations go on and on because they are far more numerous than you or I can imagine. Honestly, I can’t conceive of having to think that much about what I need to do to protect myself at any given moment in my life. I relish the freedom of getting up and going, day or night, rain or shine, Westside or downtown. As men we can enjoy this particular extreme luxury of movement and freedom of choice. In order to understand rape culture, remember this is a freedom that at least half the population doesn’t enjoy.

I'll pass on reading it. I have no issues in my life with how I treat women. I have pretty much always been considerate of anyones feelings. ( man or woman) When I started this post .... rape culture had nothing at all to do with it.

likitisplit

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

The debate has morphed off of your original post. We know you weren't inquiring about rape culture.

When a woman states on a public forum that women lie when they say they don't want unsolicited male attention, it's going to be addressed by the other women in the thread. It's not about being oversensitive, it's about being very clear for the sake of others that this claim simply isn't true.

When you need go running with a rape whistle in you hand, then we can talk about over sensitivity. Ok?

I feel for you, I really do! I don't think the rape whistle has anything to do with woman lying. The older lady I believe was only speaking on the subject I posted and not on general safety of women. Its a horrible world out there but was also have to try not to be so paranoid as to not be able to enjoy it. Just because I enjoy the form and beauty of a woman does NOT in any way mean my thinking is leaning anywhere towards rape. Maybe I'm missing something in these posts. Just to make a point, rapists are sick people and rape really has almost nothing to do with sex. Its all about having the power.

And they use the argument "women actually want it no matter what they say" to get away with their behavior.

Rapists are the people who obfuscate sex and power, not women. What are you doing to stop that happening?

BusyRaeNOTBusty

Its a horrible world out there but was also have to try not to be so paranoid as to not be able to enjoy it. Just because I enjoy the form and beauty of a woman does NOT in any way mean my thinking is leaning anywhere towards rape. Maybe I'm missing something in these posts. Just to make a point, rapists are sick people and rape really has almost nothing to do with sex. Its all about having the power.

No one is saying you are a rapist OP. Not at all. I enjoy the form and beauty of a woman too. You just have to do it in a way that does not make the woman feel unsafe or threaten and sadly, sometimes just looking at her can make her feel unsafe and threatened. And yeah, it sucks, but that thing isn't going away until we do what we can to fight "rape culture". And yeah, I am not one to be afraid of men in most circumstance but just because I am not doesn't mean that it's wrong for the women who are. Their feelings are valid. I'm going to go out of my way to not scare children even though my children are not easily scared.

Another quote from the article:

You may think it’s unfair that we have to counteract and adjust ourselves for the ill behavior of other men. You know what? You’re right. It is unfair. Is that the fault of women? Or is it the fault of the men who act abysmally and make the rest of us look bad? If issues of fairness bother you, get mad at the men who make you and your actions appear questionable.

MireyGal76

Lol ...ok dear. I'm a mother, and a grandmother. I've been around a while. I'm not saying all women lie. I'm saying a lot of girls do. Let's play nice now. Have a nice day:)

You're confusing age with wisdom. One doesn't necessarily lead to the other. You may be older than the average person here, but that doesn't make you more intelligent. From the tone of your posts it only goes to show how far we've come at combating the horrible stereotypes of past generations.

Well like I mentioned before, I do believe women lie. However I apologize for my English as I am a foreigner. You are assuming I am being mean, horrible, a nasty person to all women...I'm not. Young women do tend to stretch the truth. Men lie too. No group is off limits. People lie.

I think the problem here is the context in which you are saying women lie. If I tell a man that I don't want him to leer at me, pursue me, kiss me, grab me and so on, and so forth, then I absolutely mean it. If said man thinks I'm lying and thinks I really like the unwanted attention, where does it stop?

By saying that women are lying when they say they don't want this type of attention, you are basically setting us up for a potentially scary situation. Because, no not all men act like this. But, yes, all women have either had to defend themselves or know of someone who has had to defend themselves from unwanted male attention.

Exactly. This is the problem. You are saying "Women lie. They DO like attention at the gym."

The next step could be: "Women lie. They DO like it when men grab their *kitten* on at the bar."

Followed by: "Women lie. They DO like it when men force them to have sex."

See, the problem? And of course, no, it doesn't always progress that way. But the one, or one hundred times it does, is enough to dictate that we don't say things like this, or make assumptions like this.

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

You asked whether women liked attention.

You assumed that we weren't going to be honest.

You suggested that, if we didn't like it, we would go to all-female gyms.

Examine your premises.

I never suggested that you go to all female gyms.... I just said that if it was a major issue that there would be more of them. I am happy with the honesty.

and if you turn that to a race dialogue... if being a certain color or race is a major issue, then should we expect to see way more race segregated facilities? the tone is... if you didn't really like it, then you'd leave.

And sadly, it IS why there ARE curves, and shapes for women, and women only gyms. Which is sad, in a way, because I think that there is a wealth of knowledge that could come from synergy between both genders.

PRMinx

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

The debate has morphed off of your original post. We know you weren't inquiring about rape culture.

When a woman states on a public forum that women lie when they say they don't want unsolicited male attention, it's going to be addressed by the other women in the thread. It's not about being oversensitive, it's about being very clear for the sake of others that this claim simply isn't true.

When you need go running with a rape whistle in you hand, then we can talk about over sensitivity. Ok?

I feel for you, I really do! I don't think the rape whistle has anything to do with woman lying. The older lady I believe was only speaking on the subject I posted and not on general safety of women. Its a horrible world out there but was also have to try not to be so paranoid as to not be able to enjoy it. Just because I enjoy the form and beauty of a woman does NOT in any way mean my thinking is leaning anywhere towards rape. Maybe I'm missing something in these posts. Just to make a point, rapists are sick people and rape really has almost nothing to do with sex. Its all about having the power.

I appreciate this post. Please rest assured, I didn't think for a minute that you, personally, are a misogynist or a predator. Really, I wasn't going there at all. That's why I said that not all men think this way (that women are lying when they say no).

All I'm saying is that the context in which the "women lie" comment was made sets a dangerous precedent. That is all.

I go out and I enjoy my life. I do live on the outskirts of two of the most dangerous cities per capita in the country so I just have to be aware of my surroundings and have tools to help should I get in trouble.

BusyRaeNOTBusty

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

Of course not. You most likely don't really know what "rape culture" is. You are assuming it's just people being "overly sensitive". Have you read this yet? Really. Read it. It's written by a man.

https://medium.com/human-parts/a-gentlemens-guide-to-rape-culture-7fc86c50dc4c

Some highlights:

I don’t know about you, but I don’t spend much of my life feeling vulnerable. I’ve come to learn that women spend most of their social lives with ever-present, unavoidable feelings of vulnerability. Stop and think about that. Imagine always feeling like you could be at risk, like you were living with glass skin.

I rarely ever fear for my safety. Many men know exactly what I mean. Most women have no idea what that feels like — to go wherever you want in the world, at any time of day or night, and feel you won’t have a problem. In fact, many women have the exact opposite experience.

A woman must consider where she is going, what time of day it is, what time she will arrive at her destination and what time she will leave her destination, what day of the week is it, if she will be left alone at any point … the considerations go on and on because they are far more numerous than you or I can imagine. Honestly, I can’t conceive of having to think that much about what I need to do to protect myself at any given moment in my life. I relish the freedom of getting up and going, day or night, rain or shine, Westside or downtown. As men we can enjoy this particular extreme luxury of movement and freedom of choice. In order to understand rape culture, remember this is a freedom that at least half the population doesn’t enjoy.

I'll pass on reading it. I have no issues in my life with how I treat women. I have pretty much always been considerate of anyones feelings. ( man or woman) When I started this post .... rape culture had nothing at all to do with it.

Oh but it did. You just didn't realize it. And now you are refusing to take 5 minutes to educate yourself on the subject.

Hophead43

As the person who started this post....This is for sure not where I thought this would go. I was not inquiring about rape culture! But I guess in the overly sensitive world in which we now live I should have saw this coming.

The debate has morphed off of your original post. We know you weren't inquiring about rape culture.

When a woman states on a public forum that women lie when they say they don't want unsolicited male attention, it's going to be addressed by the other women in the thread. It's not about being oversensitive, it's about being very clear for the sake of others that this claim simply isn't true.

When you need go running with a rape whistle in you hand, then we can talk about over sensitivity. Ok?

I feel for you, I really do! I don't think the rape whistle has anything to do with woman lying. The older lady I believe was only speaking on the subject I posted and not on general safety of women. Its a horrible world out there but was also have to try not to be so paranoid as to not be able to enjoy it. Just because I enjoy the form and beauty of a woman does NOT in any way mean my thinking is leaning anywhere towards rape. Maybe I'm missing something in these posts. Just to make a point, rapists are sick people and rape really has almost nothing to do with sex. Its all about having the power.

I appreciate this post. Please rest assured, I didn't think for a minute that you, personally, are a misogynist or a predator. Really, I wasn't going there at all. That's why I said that not all men think this way (that women are lying when they say no).

All I'm saying is that the context in which the "women lie" comment was made sets a dangerous precedent. That is all.

I go out and I enjoy my life. I do live on the outskirts of two of the most dangerous cities per capita in the country so I just have to be aware of my surroundings and have tools to help should I get in trouble.

Glad to hear!! Be careful out there. Take care.