OK Ladies...Be HONEST!!

MelsAuntie

Okay if they just look. rude comments, sexual come-ons, and ogling / touching are offensive.

JD2006

This what I've heard: If women aren't attracted to you, yes it bothers them. If you're her type, she doesn't mind.

This is me exactly. Although I still feel somewhat self-conscious...mainly worried Im being compared to the hot chicks in the gym. But if youre super cute and obviously appreciate what youre looking at, then it gives me a little boost to work out even harder. If youre fugly though.... I feel violated. Lol. Sorry...just how I operate.

JD2006

This what I've heard: If women aren't attracted to you, yes it bothers them. If you're her type, she doesn't mind.

Oh dear, what a horrible, heteronormative and untrue statement this is.

Maybe it doesnt apply to all women, but I wouldnt say its untrue. I still feel kinda awkward and self-conscious no matter who is looking, but its less gross if im attracted to the person.

thankyou4thevenom

This what I've heard: If women aren't attracted to you, yes it bothers them. If you're her type, she doesn't mind.

Oh dear, what a horrible, heteronormative and untrue statement this is.

Still not sure.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=heteronormative

Hophead43

I read the article. I'm not happy being lumped in with rapists because I am a man. I was take the worst example from eery group then should all women be viewed as Lorena Bobbit or one of those teachers that were having sex with teen age boys. If someone saw me on the street they would see a pretty normal laid back guy. I look like that everyday.. Im friendly and don't see why I have to go out of my way to let anyone know I am there. The author talks about getting involved...he's nuts and will probably end up getting a beating or shot. Don't get me wrong I'll be observant and if it gets in anyway physical I'm in there. I'm not so sure if its rape culture or a culture of fear. There is enough scary **** out there...I don't want to have to eyeball everyone I see. Maybe I'm not taking the right approach to this but I consider myself a good and decent person. I will sometimes make off color comments or tell a dirty joke but I don't think that shold be how I am judged. I appreciate your views and may agree with some but not all of them.

I really think that you're personalizing something that's meant to inform - which is really easy to do. It must be hard to be a dude in a discussion like this - but that's why it's so important to try to understand what the point is.

Rape culture exists - and your OP is part of it, even though we know you ABSOLUTELY didn't mean to partake, it's such an ingrained habit for both men and women.

Your initial post was like "do girls mind if guys check them out? I think no, otherwise they'd work out somewhere else".

It looks like a perfectly innocuous statement - but the fact that there is a "somewhere else" to work out for women only and that that would enter your mind as a viable option to avoid ogling is part of the problem. There should be no ogling at all - and rather than thinking women would change gyms to avoid it, we should be suggesting men cut it out.

That's what rape culture is about - it's not about approving of rape, or thinking that every man is a rapist - it's about constantly putting the onus on women to change *their* behavior/reactions, instead of realizing that men need to change, too.

We teach little girls about modesty and how to make sure they are safe. We're not (generally) teaching boys about respecting girls no matter how they dress and what consent really means. We teach girls that when boys pick on them, the boy likes them - instead of teaching boys how to handle/express their emotions and girls to stand up for themselves when they are picked on.

It's just the way society is. And it's never going to change until everyone gets involved in the conversation - ESPECIALLY men.

I hope this makes sense.

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

thankyou4thevenom

This what I've heard: If women aren't attracted to you, yes it bothers them. If you're her type, she doesn't mind.

Oh dear, what a horrible, heteronormative and untrue statement this is.

Maybe it doesnt apply to all women, but I wouldnt say its untrue. I still feel kinda awkward and self-conscious no matter who is looking, but its less gross if im attracted to the person.

Unfortunately the OP didn't say some women, they lumped all women together. Therefore it's untrue.

thankyou4thevenom

I read the article. I'm not happy being lumped in with rapists because I am a man. I was take the worst example from eery group then should all women be viewed as Lorena Bobbit or one of those teachers that were having sex with teen age boys. If someone saw me on the street they would see a pretty normal laid back guy. I look like that everyday.. Im friendly and don't see why I have to go out of my way to let anyone know I am there. The author talks about getting involved...he's nuts and will probably end up getting a beating or shot. Don't get me wrong I'll be observant and if it gets in anyway physical I'm in there. I'm not so sure if its rape culture or a culture of fear. There is enough scary **** out there...I don't want to have to eyeball everyone I see. Maybe I'm not taking the right approach to this but I consider myself a good and decent person. I will sometimes make off color comments or tell a dirty joke but I don't think that shold be how I am judged. I appreciate your views and may agree with some but not all of them.

I really think that you're personalizing something that's meant to inform - which is really easy to do. It must be hard to be a dude in a discussion like this - but that's why it's so important to try to understand what the point is.

Rape culture exists - and your OP is part of it, even though we know you ABSOLUTELY didn't mean to partake, it's such an ingrained habit for both men and women.

Your initial post was like "do girls mind if guys check them out? I think no, otherwise they'd work out somewhere else".

It looks like a perfectly innocuous statement - but the fact that there is a "somewhere else" to work out for women only and that that would enter your mind as a viable option to avoid ogling is part of the problem. There should be no ogling at all - and rather than thinking women would change gyms to avoid it, we should be suggesting men cut it out.

That's what rape culture is about - it's not about approving of rape, or thinking that every man is a rapist - it's about constantly putting the onus on women to change *their* behavior/reactions, instead of realizing that men need to change, too.

We teach little girls about modesty and how to make sure they are safe. We're not (generally) teaching boys about respecting girls no matter how they dress and what consent really means. We teach girls that when boys pick on them, the boy likes them - instead of teaching boys how to handle/express their emotions and girls to stand up for themselves when they are picked on.

It's just the way society is. And it's never going to change until everyone gets involved in the conversation - ESPECIALLY men.

I hope this makes sense.

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

That's a bit like the argument that women wouldn't wear low cut tops if they didn't want men to stare at their breasts.

TheVirgoddess

Yeah I'm not talking about PC culture at all. Treating women as people rather than objects isn't PC - it's being a decent human being. The fact that you call some of the reactions overboard instead of recognizing them as valid but disagreeing with the conclusion is part of the problem that I've been trying to explain.

Oh well, I tried. Thanks for replying - have a nice day.

PRMinx

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).

For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.

For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.

Hophead43

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).

For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.

For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.

Totally not where I was going with the orginal post.

TheVirgoddess

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).

For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.

For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.

Good point.

Had that "women are liars" comment not been posted, I likely wouldn't have brought up rape culture at all. I don't go around calling people out on this stuff generally, because it's rarely ever intentional. I did use the OP as an example of how people feed into the problem without being aware that they are doing it. The intent wasn't to call you out, OP - just to give you an easy, example you to relate to of how pervasive it is. Sorry if I put you on the spot.

likitisplit

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).

For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.

For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.

Totally not where I was going with the original post.

Where were you going with the original post?

PRMinx

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).

For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.

For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.

Totally not where I was going with the orginal post.

Which is exactly what I said.

1. You are taking this way too personally.
2. You can't control threads on the internet.
3. All the comments on here are mostly about someone else's post, not the OP.

Hophead43

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).

For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.

For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.

Good point.

Had that "women are liars" comment not been posted, I likely wouldn't have brought up rape culture at all. I don't go around calling people out on this stuff generally, because it's rarely ever intentional. I did use the OP as an example of how people feed into the problem without being aware that they are doing it. The intent wasn't to call you out, OP - just to give you an easy, example you to relate to of how pervasive it is. Sorry if I put you on the spot.

No worries! I'm over it. I know who I am and what I am about. Everyone is entitiled to their own opionion.

Hophead43

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).

For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.

For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.

Totally not where I was going with the orginal post.

Which is exactly what I said.

1. You are taking this way too personally.
2. You can't control threads on the internet.
3. All the comments on here are mostly about someone else's post, not the OP.

Thanks.. I do get that. I just wasn't expecting this type of forum.

Z_I_L_L_A

The subject was discussed and probably brought light to some. Don't think everyone on here will change the way they think.
But some may think the next time they're in the gym about staring, and lewd comments being made. Don't think that the ones that were brought up in an environment where women are treated this way will change. Even though it got a little heated, it was good that it was brought up. Everyone have a nice day.

PRMinx

It does make sense but I think its way overboard for the posted topic. My initail post was more of a question than a statment and I implied that there would be more womens only gyms if there wasn't some that liked it. I do agree this is a product of our society. We have become so afraid of everything now that pretty much anything said can be taken by someone as offensive. The PC culture is getting way out of hand.

I think a lot of the backlash started from lou's comment, not so much the original post (although there was some there, too).

For me, it really had nothing to do with the OP. Some woman (lou) came on here and said that women lie when they are saying they don't like unsolicited male attention. That's a bullsh&t comment that deserves to be called out. It has nothing to do with being PC.

For me, it's really frustrating that the women here who called lou out are being told they are oversensitive and part of PC culture.

Good point.

Had that "women are liars" comment not been posted, I likely wouldn't have brought up rape culture at all. I don't go around calling people out on this stuff generally, because it's rarely ever intentional. I did use the OP as an example of how people feed into the problem without being aware that they are doing it. The intent wasn't to call you out, OP - just to give you an easy, example you to relate to of how pervasive it is. Sorry if I put you on the spot.

Exactly. The OP didn't really phase me. I realize that we say things all the time that can be misconstrued, so I don't jump on every little thing. I wouldn't have gotten involved at all until I saw that comment.

blushingbride2bee

Bahah this is really funny! Hellooo, there are tons of hot bodies at the gym, men and women. Let's be real, women probably check out other women's bodies at the gym more than they look at men! I agree with other comments though, a glance or a brief moment of eye contact is totally fine, but not long term staring, no whispering or pointing with your buddies and absolutely NO eye contact while a woman is using the thigh machine and has awkward spread legs! That's my only rule

Z_I_L_L_A

Bahah this is really funny! Hellooo, there are tons of hot bodies at the gym, men and women. Let's be real, women probably check out other women's bodies at the gym more than they look at men! I agree with other comments though, a glance or a brief moment of eye contact is totally fine, but not long term staring, no whispering or pointing with your buddies and absolutely NO eye contact while a woman is using the thigh machine and has awkward spread legs! That's my only rule

Aw man. I've used that machine and felt paranoid as hell. But seems to help my squats. lol Only a few guys in my gym will use that machine.